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Standard ruleset

Discussion in 'Office of Strategic Influence' started by auramaster, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. auramaster


    Dec 17, 2008
    The Circus Maximus rules currently include the rules from Minor Character Mafia, as an example for other hosts to use. However, it's been outdated for a while. A standard set of rules needs to be made, possibly including some new rules, or leaving out some rules that are in almost every game. So, starting with the current standard ruleset...

    1. Whilst you are alive you can talk to anyone about the game. Once you are dead you cannot talk to anyone about the game, unless you are mafia and on the same team, in which case you may talk with members of your team only, and only for strategy purposes. Knowledge acquired after death cannot be transferred from a dead player to a living player.

    2. Every user has a role PM. Role PMs may not be shown to other users on Night 0, but starting from Day 1 onwards they may be freely distributed. Screenshotting of all forms is banned. If anyone finds a person encouraging others to take screenshots or taking screenshots and showing other people, please be sure to report it.

    3. You can paste things told to you by the host. You may fake logs. Do not take pasting of a host conversation as definite proof, these can be faked. If you want to fake a log, feel free to PM one of the hosts for assistance. Impersonation of a host or another user however, is banned at all points. Please do not attempt to impersonate in any way.

    4. Each day will have a deadline of 48 hours. You may vote to lynch users during the day by posting "lynch USER" in bold, or "No lynch" if you don't want to lynch anyone (lynch votes will not count if they're not in the correct format!), and if you change your vote, you MUST edit the bolded text out of the old post if you post with a new vote. Once there is a majority as determined by the host, there will be a grace period of 3 hours, and if the majority is still in place after said grace period, the day will end. Please don't ask about when a majority is reached - once it's time for the day to end, it'll end (provided a host is there to update). The game will start on Night 0, but deaths can happen on Night 0 just like any other night.

    4.5. If there's a tie, both users with the highest amount of votes will be lynched, but no lynch will take place the next day.

    5. Each night will have a deadline of 48 hours. This gives you 48 hours to send your night action. Please state what you are doing in the PM title, it makes it MUCH easier to handle. Remember that PMs are to be sent to Fishin AND Serenity.

    5.5. If you're not going to do anything at night, send a PM titled "Night X - idling". This makes keeping track of things easier and informs me that you're still playing the game.

    6. Priorities have been decided beforehand and will not be revealed.

    7. This game features items. Items can be used at the same time as regular night actions, unless stated otherwise. You can give an item away during either the day or night, by sending a pm to Fishin and Serenity stating "Night/Day X - Give ITEM to USER." You cannot use an item during the same night you give it away, however you can use an unrelated ability whilst giving away an item. Giving away an item has the lowest priority, and if you are killed/lynched the same night/day you attempt to give away an item, it won't be moved.

    8. There is no "Scavenger" ability, and information about items (neither those initially held nor those held upon death) will not be revealed upon a user's death. Stealing abilities are allowed to target a dead user - this is the only way to recover items from a corpse.

    9. "Minor Character" can mean any character that isn't really a main character. Someone like Neville Longbottom from Harry Potter, for example, would qualify. Characters may come from anything - TV shows, movies, anime, books, video games, real life, websites, etc.

    10. Only sign up if you know you're going to be at least fairly active. If I notice that you seem to be idle, I reserve the right to have you forcefully subbed out if necessary. I'll most likely nudge first, though.

    11. Be careful who you trust. I'm not going to give a real reason as to why, but everyone would do well to be more cautious than normal.

    What changes do you think should be made? Some of my thoughts...

    • Rule 9 should be removed. The theme of a game nowadays is either open, or the theme is very obvious (Metroid Prime Mafia, Fallout 3 Mafia, etc.)
    • The grace period is kinda short. If majority is reached in a few hours, then someone who's offline for 10 hours could be lynched without a chance to defend himself. Maybe have the grace period change depending on the time of day left, possibly 1/4 of the day left? This way, the grace period is short when everyone's been debating it for a while, but long when someone hasn't had much of a chance to respond.
    • Rule 4 also says there are kills on Night 0, which almost no Mafia game does anymore.
    • What should happen in case of a tie? No lynch? Both lynched? Both lynched, but no lynch the next day?
    • Rules 4 and 4.5 should be combined IMO, since they're so closely related, and 4.5 is so short. Same with 5 and 5.5
    • Rule 11 is usually replaced in games with something like "Do not assume anything is too unusual to be true".
    • Should IRC be required, or simply encouraged? Either way, it should be mentioned in the rules.
    • Many games demand that the host be given access to all spreadsheets and IRC channels. Should that be added to the rules, and does the host need to see everything? If so, why?
    • Some Mafia games say that the host will proofread fake claims. Should this be done in Standard games? What about Beginner games? And should a simple Spelling and Grammar check be done, or should the hosts also check for formatting errors?
    • It should be mentioned that if the role PM and rules conflict, the role PM is correct.
    • Why is deadtalking usually the first rule? No one starts off dead!
    • Should the presence, or lack of, Moles, Millers, Revivers, Deadtalkers, and other rule-breaking roles be mentioned in the rules?

    Any other ideas? Comments? Suggestions? Discuss!
  2. Johann


    Nov 7, 2009
    I think your last bullet brings up a good point. If they are not mentioned people start complaining when those roles carry out their action saying they are "broken." While if they are mentioned people become paranoid and the ones with those roles are commonly killed off earlier. In my opinion they should be mentioned in standard games, not but in expert games, because the players are obviously, experts.
  3. Gmax

    Gmax kuahahahaha
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Oct 29, 2006
    I don't think we need a standard ruleset of any sort. I believe that doing so will end up limiting the imagination of players looking to host games. Fishin's rules are just there for people to get a good idea of what things they should be looking to deal with when they're making the rules. They're also well written, and make for good material to work with if they align with what the host wants.

    They are NOT, however, official or standard in any way. They're given as a sample set of rules. The moment you tag them as standard or official, you're changing the way people view them. There is absolutely no need for anything to be considered "standard" in mafia to start with. This might sound ridiculous to some people, but if you ask people on mafiascum what they think of outside communication, or all villagers having individual roles, you'll probably get a similar reaction. It's by messing with the basics that Smogon mafia has become what it is today.

    Also, about Fishin's rules, each point should be considered a basic setting, which the hosts may configure to get what they want in their game. For example, you have rule 1. That relates to deadtalking. What Fishin has done with deadtalking is just one option. You can do different things, such as completely disabling deadtalking, adding a role which can talk to the dead, absorbing a dead player into another role, or just letting everyone deadtalk. I mean, these things haven't ever been done, and maybe with good reason, but there's no reason to close off the option in people's heads to start with. Perhaps the sticky post with his rules should be updated to make it clear that these rules are just a sample anyway.

    tl;dr I don't think there should be a standard ruleset.

    P.S. I'm not going to stop it going through or anything if everyone else thinks it's a good idea, and you're all free to discuss this or whatever, but I am pretty much against it...
  4. Veedrock


    Oct 18, 2008
    I think it'd be better if games started split what's now the "Rules" and have a seperate section titled Guidelines/Suggestions/Misc. Info/something of similar nature, that includes thing abouts hosts having spreadsheet access, fake claim help, etc. This will help reduce the clutter in Rules so instead of 20+ "rules" with mostly filler things. Moving on to the bullets:

    Who reads the rules after they die? Deadtalking is probably the biggest thing to know about, and while seasoned mafia players see it as a given, newer players need to be presented with it upfront in case they choose to only skim the rules. The last thing you want is somebody going "I didn't know" because they managed to miss the rule in the clutter.

    Stepping into a grey area here, but I think the ability to access IRC should be required (which if you have a browser you should), but constant participation shouldn't be. The people that the mandatory rule generally targets usually only pop on occasionally and while they're present they don't do much. So while they may technically have IRC like the rules say, they don't really use it as much/as well as the hosts think the rule will make them, causing it to be pretty useless.

    Eh this isn't really enforceable so it shouldn't be mentioned, but it should be encouraged (under the second section if that idea takes off). It helps hosts keep up on how players are doing and if there's something of concern (an example being a spreadsheet getting a LOT of info quickly). So it keeps hosts involved and helps them keep tabs on the players.

    Ties are a tricky case. I don't like no lynch because it takes power away from the village (who's only form of offense is lynch control, and after a no lynch they're lose control next day), and I don't like both lynched with nothing next day because mafias can sacrifice their guy and then have the village at their mercy for 2 days, after which the village doesn't control it any longer. Both lynched is the best option to me, but I'm likely in the minority here. For an example written ruleset, I'd go with no lynch. Host can change it to his discretion.

    This should just be removed completely. I also don't think there should any kind of standard for this. Most hosts will do this if they're asked, but I don't think they should be under any sort of obligation. For example, if there's a good sample PM in the first post, the host may find that sufficient enough and not offer personal checks, forcing players to stand on their own and rely on their team for checks. This covers the detail part as well; the thoroughness of their check is their choice.

    For an example ruleset, this should just be removed completely. If you want to get into specifics (like Johann) only moles should be up for discussion, and like the above I don't think there should be a standard for this. If a host wants to warn players (either vaguely or specifically) so be it, but if they don't why should they be forced to?

    I don't have much of an opinion on any other bullets so I didn't respond to them.

    I think a good example ruleset is useful and convenient, but completely agree that it should really only be a template for modification, not some sort of standard. However Fishin's ruleset is pretty specific to his game and it shows, making it a poor choice for a "basic setting" and a chore to modify. It is nicely written, but coming up with something more basic and generic is a good idea.
  5. Exarius


    Aug 7, 2009
    You yourself say in the first sentence that those rules are an example, but then you write as if they were THE ruleset for all games. They aren't. They could be "neutralised" a bit (making it somewhat general and removing the host names/rules regarding the original game), but if you can't even modify the rules to fit your game, I doubt the game will be that good either. So yeah, I agree with Gmax here.
  6. Blue_Tornado


    Apr 14, 2009
    Most games today have something new to offer, and a lot are extremely different from one another. I really don't see a 'default' ruleset being of aid.
  7. billymills

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 6, 2008
    I disagree with Gmax, I don't think there should be a standard ruleset.

    The only reason those rules were linked (? were they linked somewhere I'm not certain of this) is because they worked and many hosts were too lazy to create their own rules.

    tl;dr: make your own rules that suit your own game.
  8. Da Letter El

    Da Letter El Officially internet famous
    is a Forum Moderator
    Circus Maximus Leader

    Mar 28, 2008

    but no, there's no point in creating a standard rule list. We have guidelines on well-written rules already, and there's no reason why we need to make something standardized.
  9. auramaster


    Dec 17, 2008
    Since I didn't make it clear in the first post, this is my opinion of a standard ruleset, except worded better then I could have :( I'm thinking of a standard ruleset which could be modified depending on the hosts preferences and the game format. It's MUCH easier making the rules by editing a standard set of rules, then by making them from scratch. Of course one ruleset won't work for every game, but there are many rules which every game has, like no deadtalking or send an idling PM if you're not gonna do anything. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    I suppose you do have a point, I assumed Beginners would read all the rules for a game they've never played in, but that might be a large assumption.

    You bring up an interesting point. What's the difference between someone who doesn't have IRC, and someone who has IRC but doesn't use it? IMO either IRC should be encouraged, but not required, or using IRC on a fairly regular basis (Maybe once every Day or Night?) should be required.
  10. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    May 23, 2009
    I don't really think a "standard" ruleset is necessary. If you want to host, just grab any rules from a game that you liked and edit it to your heart's content. If you don't want to do that, just write up your own. It's not too difficult.

    Should a standard ruleset be implemented, however...

    - Rule 4.5 doesn't really make any sense. A strategy that's been employed before is "tying up the lynch". It's often effective for mafia if the village isn't very organized (or active).
    - I don't really see the point of increasing the duration of grace period. You can either say something like "Day ends when it's deadline" or have a short grace period. After all, once majority is reached, it is highly unlikely that majority will shift.
    - The point of having a mole/miller is for them to mole. Some hosts may like to increase paranoia by saying "there's some of these in the game", or some may want to have the moles mole. There shouldn't be an "official" statement for this.
    - Rule 11 is pretty much a given. I like a "hosts reserve the right to lie to you" better, as it gives the host more freedom.

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