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Gen 3 Standard Team [W/ Sprites] =DD~

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by kazumi12, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. kazumi12

    kazumi12

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    6
    Happy New Year!



    Legend: Color - Normal
    Color - Fire
    Color - Water
    Color - Eletric
    Color - Grass
    Color - Ice
    Color - Fighting
    Color - Poison
    Color - Earth
    Color - Flying
    Color - Psychic
    Color - Bug
    Color - Rock
    Color - Ghost
    Color - Dragon
    Color - Dark
    Color - Steel


    [​IMG] (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

    - Earthquake
    - Focus Punch
    - Hidden Power [Bug]
    - Rock Slide


    Can Hit almost everything and one hit loads, including Celebi and Zapdos; Summons Sandstorm = '~' =

    OU Counters: Aerodactyl, Blaziken, Donphan, Dugtrio, Dusclops, Flygon, Heracross, Medicham, Milotic, Sceptile, Starmie, Swampert, Suicune, Vaporeon and Weezing.

    Note that almost all CAN be killed if they switch in Tyranitar's attack, excluding Swampert, Donphan,and Suicune with the right build; I will call them "Real Counters"


    [​IMG] (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 172 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Rapid Spin
    - Roar

    Good counter of almost all kinds of Tyranitars; Rapid Spins and the ability to hit well Dusclops that blocks my spin are the mains reason for using it.
    I try not to risk taking WoW from Dusclops, though.


    Real OU Counters: Celebi, Claydol, Ludicolo, Milotic, Sceptile, Skarmory, Starmie, Suicune, Swampert and Vaporeon (And the Whole OU Tier with a Special Attack)


    [​IMG] (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

    - Hidden Power[Flying]/Counter
    - Whirlwind
    - Spikes
    - Substitute/Taunt

    One of/The best spiker in the game; Skarmory can easily switch in any physical attack 'n' set spikes :).
    I'm still deciding if I use Subs/HP or Taunt/Counter. It destroys the ones who think Rock slide is going to kill ya. Counter> Aerodactyl, Pure Physical Salamence, etc.

    Real OU Counters: Blaziken, Gengar, Jolteon, Magneton, Raikou, Regice, Starmie, Suicune, Swampert, Vaporeon and Zapdos. (And the Whole OU Tier with enough SP. Attack and at least a neutral Attack based in Sp. Attack)

    [​IMG] (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

    - Protect
    - Counter
    - Seismic Toss
    - Wish

    Sponge and wish passer! :D~
    It took me a while to decide between Ice beam and Seismic Toss. Both of them wouldn't give me enough protection against Dugtrio. It was when i remembered of an old move of Blissey: Counter! Nobody used to hit Blissey before knowing it had Counter in the past of Netbattle, but now Ice beam is more used to hit Focus Punchers Gengars;

    Though most of you will say that counter is better with Softboiled, I got to use wish. Wish is leet :D~ (I need extreme caution with Dugtrio switching in Low HP Blissey)
    I can still survive a special attack, wish and heal after Dugtrio's earthquake:

    -----------------------
    Begin Turn #2
    x ' withdrew y!
    x ' sent out Dugtrio (Lv.100 Dugtrio)!
    ---------------------------------
    Blissey used Seismic Toss!
    (47% damage)
    ---------------------------------
    [...] <- Sandstorm -.-'
    End of turn #2
    x 's Dugtrio: 53% HP
    y 's Blissey: 714 HP
    Begin Turn #3
    Dugtrio used Earthquake!
    (393 damage) <--- Adamant Choice Banded Dugtrio
    [252 Attack EV]
    ---------------------------------
    Blissey used Counter!
    (53% damage)
    Dugtrio fainted!


    [...]

    Begin Turn #6
    y withdrew Dusclops!
    y sent out Blissey (Lv.100 Blissey)!
    ---------------------------------
    Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
    (130 damage)
    ---------------------------------
    [...]
    End of turn #6
    x 's Zapdos: 75% HP
    y 's Blissey: 191 HP

    Begin Turn #7
    Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
    (131 damage)
    ---------------------------------
    Blissey used Wish!
    Blissey made a Wish!
    ---------------------------------

    [...]
    End of turn #7
    x 's Zapdos: 75% HP
    y 's Blissey: 60 HP

    Begin Turn #8
    Blissey used Protect!
    Blissey protected itself!
    ---------------------------------
    Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
    Blissey protected itself!
    ---------------------------------
    Blissey's Wish came true!
    Blissey regained health!

    [..]
    End of turn #8
    x 's Zapdos: 75% HP
    y 's Blissey: 417 HP
    -------------------------
    And Metagross' Meteor Mash:

    Begin Turn #3
    Metagross used Meteor Mash! <--- Adamant Choice Banded Metagross [252 Attack EV]
    (566 damage)
    ---------------------------------
    Blissey used Counter!
    (67% damage)
    Metagross fainted!

    y sent out Blissey (Lv.100 Blissey)!
    ---------------------------------
    [...]
    End of turn #3
    x 's Blissey: 148 HP <---- Can Only Heal Its HP In Front of Stallers.
    y's Blissey: 100% HP

    Real OU Counters: Ghosts, any physical hit that Blissey cannot Counter: Fighting Moves mainly.


    [​IMG] (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 Def
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)

    - Rest
    - Shadow Ball
    - Sleep Talk
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Almost All teams are weak to Mixed Sweepers, mainly if Skarmory and Blissey are the only walls. I needed a Pokémon with Both Def and Sp. Def
    above 300 with the EVs Distributed correctly; Dusclops fit the
    requirements. Gengar is a common Mixed Sweeper that can screw with
    4/6 of my team with the following build:

    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Ice Punch
    ~ Focus Punch
    ~ Substitute/Wow

    Dusclops can simply tank all these attacks with no problem and 3 (or 2) Hits Gengar with Shadow Ball. WoW'ing for the win \o/. Btw, Dusclops can stall with Rest/Sleep Talk ( (L) Pressure); But its fun is usually ruined by criticals.

    Non-Wow'd Counters: [Choice Band] Aerodactyl, Flygon, Medicham, Salamence, Slaking, Snorlax (not sure). [Substitute/Taunt] Tyranitars

    Real OU Counters: Houndoom, Suicune, Raikou, Jirachi.

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 Spd / 224 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Thunderbolt

    Durable, can take hits and status from Suicune, Blissey, Weezing. Out-stalls Blissey With Rest/Sleep talk.Hidden Power Grass For Swampert, a really annoying pokémon, or Ice for Flygon/Salamence Dx.
    But I prefer Grass x)
    Zapdos is the second Gengar Killer, if Dusclops dies. Takes Hypnosis if needed, and sleep talks. Really useful.

    Real OU Counters:
    Celebi, Snorlax, Regice, Swampert [HP Ice], Flygon [HP Grass]

    -------------
    Zapdos: [​IMG]

    Skarmory: [​IMG]

    Tyranitar: [​IMG]

    Blissey:
    [​IMG]

    Donphan: [​IMG]

    Dusclops: [​IMG]

    -----------

    ~OU Tier~ Bold = Give Problems, Underline = Might give problems

    I MAY be wrong with counters of the pokemon below.

    [There is always the predict/luck/Surprise factor]
    ~

    Aerodactyl : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Blaziken: [​IMG] (Shadow Ball till it dies D:) if it has not HP Ice: [​IMG] or Even [​IMG]
    Blissey : [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Celebi : [​IMG] + [​IMG] (Stall)
    Claydol : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG](Beware with Explosion) + [​IMG]

    Donphan : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Dragonite(Physical): [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Dragonite(Mixed): [​IMG](Shadow Ball - Wow if possible) + [​IMG] + [​IMG] (Breaks Target, Survives Punch and keep Seismic Toss'ing (try to Wish w/o being predicted)
    Dugtrio : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] [It'll probably switch in Blissey]
    Dusclops : [​IMG] + [​IMG] (Subs) + [​IMG]
    Gengar : [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Gyarados : [​IMG] + [​IMG] (Hidden Power Flying!)
    Heracross : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] [Predict Needed]
    Jirachi : [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Jolteon : [​IMG] +[​IMG]
    Ludicolo : [​IMG] ( Subs, HP) + [​IMG]
    Magneton : [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Medicham : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] [Predict Needed]
    Metagross : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] [Predict Needed]
    Milotic : [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Raikou : [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Regice : [​IMG] + [​IMG] (Predict Switch/Switch when Regice's sleeping)
    Salamence : [​IMG]+ [​IMG]+ [​IMG] +[​IMG] (Beware with Dragon Dance) [Predict Needed]
    Sceptile : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Skarmory : [​IMG]
    Slaking : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] [Predict Needed]
    Snorlax(Full Attack) : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] [Kills Even with 1 Curse]
    Snorlax(Curselax w/ Shadow Ball) [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Snorlax (Curselax w/ Earthquake) [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Snorlax (Curselax w/ Fire Blast and Return/Body Slam) [​IMG] + [​IMG] (Mainly Dusclops)
    Snorlax (Curselax w/ Fire Blast and Earthquake) [​IMG] + [​IMG] (Whirlwind)
    Starmie : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Suicune : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Swampert : [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Tyranitar : [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Umbreon : [​IMG] (Whirlwind)
    Vaporeon
    : [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Weezing : [​IMG]
    Zapdos
    : [​IMG] + [​IMG] or even [​IMG] If Instant Kill is needed

    --------------------
    Problems: I think Donphan isn't helping much, need advices there;
    There isn't any Heal Beller, If Tyranitar/Donphan gets WoW/Toxic, I lose
    Well, I have Blissey, Dusclops and Zapdos to take Status, i just need to know [Predict] when the opponent's gonna use WoW/Toxic (TWave isn't a problem to Tyranitar and it doesn't affect Donphan)


    Rate it x)


    Too much Color, I know

  2. ABC-Trainer

    ABC-Trainer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,292
    it's difficult to take this thread seriously for a few reasons

    1. the ridiculous amount of unnecessary color coding that you put into it. seriously, everyone on this board knows the typing of the pokemon you mentioned. damn you even put a fucking KEY in there.

    2. neurotic use of bold and italic font

    3. you don't have to use logs to demonstrate Blissey's capability to survive various physical attacks. merely posting damage calc results would suffice.

    4. you put threats/counters after every single pokemon. there is no reason to do this - obviously every pokemon has a counter. the point of a threat list is to assess threats to the team as a whole.

    5. putting the mini pokemon icons to demonstrate that they can neutralize threats not only looks stupid, but you don't write HOW they do it which is an essential part of writing up a threat list. i can't believe you made a key matching up a pokemon to it's icon either. everyone knows what these pokemon look like.

    6. your sprites aren't even Adv sprites but what I will assume are from the 4th gen. not only that but your sprites have no consistency. after blissey you start using drawings instead.

    now that we're done with that on to your team rate.

    your team is ridiculously standard. there are no glaring weaknesses because you use skarmbliss, a tanking zap with donphan and clops who are very bulky. this is a typical spikes team with a strong CBer as cleanup.
  3. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,571
    When i started using sprites/colors in my RMT, i didnt mean for people to start doing this...jesus.

    As for the team, its standard as hell, but mainly replace Donphan and its fine-ish.
  4. Rubberbandman

    Rubberbandman

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    Messages:
    203
    I rarely write comments for my teams, this is going too far. Past Blissey it got tl;dr so I just was to say that ABCTrainer summed it up. Making a bog standard team and dressing it up with different fonts and random battle logs wont stop it from being a bog standard team.
  5. Lolcat

    Lolcat

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    9
    Gengar over dusclops, seriously I don't know how many different ways gengar can own but he can do it better than dusclops. Starmie/Claydol over donphan to cover blazikens. Both of those can still spin so you don't lose to spikes. Zapdos can stop gengar. (btw claydol can boom :D). Anyways if you take this advice you can hopefully make the team a little more balanced as far as offense and defense. Seems like you have a little too much defense and ttar is your only real Killer. Just my two cents.
  6. Althouse

    Althouse

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    I would try a Viltar maybe. Replace EQ with sub and give it lefties. Much more sturdy. It would need no speed then, and give it hp or defense. It will then be able to take on dugtrios and your countering blissey is not needed. Sub on first turn is a good idea.

    Decent. Works well with skarm. You already have enough physical walls imo. Swampert problems here. Claydol might work well as a spinner with EQ and Ice Beam for dragons.

    do not use counter. you barely take any damage from anything physical for counter to work. Sub or Rest for the last slot.

    Works. I prefer the coverage of using Ice Beam or t-wave along with seismic toss. I like heal bell and softboiled over wish/protect and if you get vaporeon, you no longer need bliss to wish pass.

    Works, but there are much more sturdy walls. This is good for blocking Rapid Spins. Less attack more Sp Def. I would actually replace this with something like a Celebi or a bulky water like vaporeon who can wish pass for you.


    Stalker is great. Give it more Def.


    Overall: It isn't bad, but it isn't great either. Swampert (Surf, Ice Beam, Earthquake, Rest) will destroy your entire team is zapdos is gone or they have a major zapdos counter. Status could be a problem with your team. A Bulky Water (vaporeon, milotic, suicune) is needed imo. Nothing to kill dragons except for a donphan and ttar. Ttar is KOed by a one DD or CB mence and if it has fire blast, it can take out skarm. Jolteon could give problems if it has sub, or raikou. A celebi and Magneton combo will basically leave you helpless as well if ttar has taken some damage. Starmie is another problem.

    Hope this helps somewhat.
  7. Hey Oh

    Hey Oh

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    wow i really want to know how long that took

    very standard team so it should be fine. There are combos and such, but most are rare. A well built stall team can beat this very efficiently however.
  8. Cruiselax

    Cruiselax

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    452
    nice effort on the formatting, i like it.

    boah can cause some problems, it hits 5/6 and zapdos does not enjoy having its spdef halted, same goes for ddmence, a little luck on the other side will cause tremendous damage.
  9. ABC-Trainer

    ABC-Trainer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,292
    Saying that Boah and Swampert give this team problems EXCEPT FOR ZAPDOS!!! is dumb. His bulky sdef oriented restalker zap is easily one of the best counters for those pokemon.
  10. Cruiselax

    Cruiselax

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    452
    No shit, thats like saying you will never die in a car crash because you wear a seat belt.

    You'll always need to take luck into consideration when building a team, especially when 5/6 of your team can be dented by boah, forcing you to switch to zapdos everytime.


    I honestly don't see you giving out any help except whine about useless shit and ridicule about other peoples helpful advice.


    Now I'm just defending my own statement, why althouse think swampert "will destroy your entire team" is beyond me.
  11. ABC-Trainer

    ABC-Trainer

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    Mar 6, 2005
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    2,292
    there's no way to account for luck in team building. you didn't offer him any suggestion as to fix this boah hax weakness. thanks for telling him that some luck will cause "tremendous damage" but that's not really helpful at all!
  12. Cruiselax

    Cruiselax

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    452

    ¿ ¿lol que??

    I see nothing but rant there, nice job hypocrite.

    He asked for advice, so I provided him with a possible threat to his team.

    oh yeah, I dont think telling him this team is alright just because he uses skarmbliss is "really helpful at all!"
  13. ABC-Trainer

    ABC-Trainer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,292
    I don't want to cause this thread to fill with useless posts. kazumi I apologize for being a little overbearing when I criticized the layout of the RMT, but after all the post does contain a team and it should be rated.

    Cruiselax, as you can see I put a comma after skarmbliss which led to the names of other pokemon on his team. I mentioned that his team does have a solid core which removes almost all weaknesses. I may not have fully explained myself but I will do so now.

    Donphan, Dusclops and Skarmbliss is similar to the outline of the most tried and true adv stall team, skarmbliss claydol and clops. Obviously Donphan is an inferior spinner to Claydol in some aspects but still fills the role, takes on ddtar just as well and obviously absorbs physical attacks much better (although it's arguable to whether or not this is necessary). He also has zapdos in there which is a classic boah counter, which prevents the entire team from being ripped apart by it.

    A standard boah ev set does 23% to 27% with a Crunch to zapdos. After a Sdef down it does 40% at the most. He is still capable of stalling this off with restalk. If he gets an SDef down he can switch out to something and come back, using a little prediction of course. Also, Zapdos' pressure will quickly sap crunches PP. Zapdos can't skill swap, so there is little he can do to counter CH but no team is CH proof. Donphan is capable of tanking boah at least once without Rest, and CBtar can potentially come in on a Crunch to scare boah off.

    What else could help prevent further conjecture of boah rape? Perhaps he could change CBtar into a calm cune and swap something out for a Dugtrio to take care of him permanently. Really I'm not sure what you're getting at.

    I will restate that the team is fairly solid and a typical stall team. There is little I can suggest to improve the team except for taking out Roar on Donphan and putting in Rest since Skarm already has phazing covered. The least that I can do is to point out stupid comments that are either incorrect or pointless and may mislead the op.
  14. kazumi12

    kazumi12

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    6
    :(

    I'll try it

    2 Hours


    Each Person suggested a Different thing, so I'm going to try them when I get home and post the modificated team here.


    Thanks everybody for the help x)
  15. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Although i usually disagree with ABC-Trainer, and by usually i mean always, i sort of agree, there is not much to improve this team, as its standard in every which way.

    However; I still beleive Starmie/Claydol are definately better choices in this instance than Donphan. Starmie can drill gengar with STAB psychics/surfs if it tries to block the rapid spins, while Claydol can also do this. Claydol is slower, but more bulky, but also carries EQ, to cover TTars. Either one of these could work, but i'd lean towards claydol, because of Sandstorm. I'd suggest the moveset Rapid Spin/Earthquake/Psychic/Ice Beam, to cover your "slight" mence weak, and nail gengars who block your rapid spin, while covering DD/CB/Vi Tars.

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