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Still Stalling

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Master of Toad, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Master of Toad

    Master of Toad

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    151
    1.Introduction
    I always wanted to make a team with Lapras.I started to think about it and came across Rain Stall. I really ennjoyed the play style so here is the Team.
    Welcome to my new RMT!
    2. Team-Building Process

    Politoed is normally the first Pokémon which comes to mind when building a rain team in OU because he is a must since he summons permanent rain.
    I added Ferrothorn and Tentacruel so I had a defensive core which sets up hazards (SR, TS) and allows me to spin away annoying layers of spikes etc.
    Then I added Sableye to spread status and being a pain to kill and Lapras for the additional defensive Pokémon which also serves as a Dragon and Revenge killer.
    Now I added Breloom as a stall breaker which can be really help full in some match ups.
    3. The Team

    [​IMG]
    Kant (Politoed) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Politoed might not be the most dangerous Pokémon, but the viability of this set is tremendous. With Choice Specs he is a not to overlook force in the Meta. Not only does he summons the rain but also he is able to deal a ton of damage to any Pokémon in the OU Meta game because of his move pool which lets him hit everything with at least neutral damage also a STAB Hydro Pump is a force that made some nightmares come true. The boost from Choice Specs and rain more than doubles the power of Hydro Pump, which allows it to 2HKO some of the most specially bulky Pokémon in OU, including Jirachi, Latios, and Mew. Here are some examples of damage dealed to common switches into Politoed.
    • Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Salamence: 68.3% - 80.7%
    • Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Naive Salamence: 75.8% - 89.4%
    • Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Haxorus: 95.6% - 112.6%
    • Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Hydreigon: 63.1% - 74.5%
    • Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Rotom-W: 73.14% - 86.36%
    I play him with a bulky EV Spread with no Spd investments so I win the weather war more often. In addition to that the speed is not appeared to be missing in battle. With Sableye it has even more durability since he can Will´o´Wisp all annoying physical attackers which can be quite annoying to deal with at some point. Ferrothorn counters also some of common threads of Politoed, as well as Breloom and Tentacruel.



    [​IMG]

    Fall (Breloom) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Technician
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Spore

    This set provides the user with Spore an extremely superb move in the OU Meta game. In this team it is even more important because it allows me to take out threads of my team by putting them to sleep. Normally Breloom is then able to set up at least one Swords Dance after a Spore and can finish whole teams in late game situations since it when has a 788 Attack after one SD. Furthermore Breloom has the ability Technician which he can abuse with Mach Punch and the “Sub Breaking” Attack Bullet Seed. This makes Breloom to one of the most seen physical attackers in the OU meta-game, to counter that I decided to run a Jolly Breloom with Lum Berry so it can out speed the common hard Breloom to spore it and with the Lum Berry you almost have a guaranty SD.




    [​IMG]



    Twin (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Stealth Rocks
    - Toxic
    - Seismic Toss

    - Softboiled

    Thanks to her enormous base 255 HP and 135 Special Defense stats, Blissey is one of the best special walls in the game. Additionally, if Blissey loses her Leftovers, she is only slightly harmed. Furthermore, Blissey has usable Special Attack (unlike Chansey, who is forced to use Seismic Toss).
    This set concentrates on general support for the team. It can be used to set up Stealth Rock Meanwhile, having Stealth Rock on Blissey means your previous Stealth Rock user can utilize another support or attacking move. This is in this case Sipkes on Ferrothorn.





    [​IMG]

    Rapture (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Gyro Ball
    - Protect
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed

    This set is Ferrothorn's standard. Leech Seed is a very effective move, useful for preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up on it while providing self-healing at the same time. In combination with Protect it may win games or get some Pokémon down to a level of health from which on the can be killed by Breloom or Politoed. Gyro Ball and Power Whip are Ferrothorn's best attacking options, hitting for at least neutral damage most of the time. However, because his Attack stat horrible, this was one of the reasons to choose Protect was the better alternative over Power Whip; it is useful for scouting and to regain life and stall in general which is the focus of this team.

    [​IMG]


    Twist (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 144 SAtk / 112 HP / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Recover
    - Substiude
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind

    This set is way more suited for Latios, which has a much higher Special Attack stat. However, Latias's higher bulk allows her to come into play more often and dish out powerful hits as well as take more hits than Latios. Latias is more of an special tank. Even without investing in Special Defense, Latias is still bulky enough to take special attacks without much fear. Recover lets me heal off any damage with she took or which Life Orb dealed to her.The SubCalm set is fearing at some point and can take out several threads quite esaily.However,I have a problem with the now missing coverage


    [​IMG]
    Fate (Tentacruel) (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 240 Def / 252 HP / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Protect

    This set excels at spinning away hazards for both balanced and stall teams alike. Unlike other users of Rapid Spin, Tentacruel is able to absorb Toxic Spikes, supporting its work as a spinner and a great addition to the stall team since TS can counter the whole team.The argument of McBarrett seemed logic so I change TS into Toxic.I already changed Ice Beam to Protect since it helps to recover a lot better.

    4. Importable
    Kant (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Fall (Breloom) (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Technician
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Spore

    Twin (Blissey) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Softboiled
    - Toxic
    - Seismic Toss

    Rapture (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Gyro Ball
    - Protect
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed

    Twist (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Recover
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Substitute

    Fate (Tentacruel) (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Protect
  2. Master of Toad

    Master of Toad

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    151
    Bump Really no help for me =/
  3. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    807
    Hi Master of Toed.

    I really like this team, but I do feel with my suggestion it'll improve your team. Firstly, your Sun weakness really bothers me. When Politoed dies, especially since it an offensive set which doesn't last long, Sun teams easily beats you. Even Lappras can't 2hko Venusaur with Ice Shard since it'll be healing with Giga Drain. I therefore suggest using Latias > Lappras. Latias gives you a powerful Tank that doesn't require set-up to hit hard. It gives you a solid check to Landorus-I and Sun-teams. Given the EV spread, Latias never gets 2hko'd by Venusaurs Sludge Wave at +2. I also suggest using Foul Play / Night Shade / Seismic Toss > Toxic on Sableye since you already have Toxic Spikes and Sableye really wants some form of damage. It also help beat Magic Guard Psychic-types like Alakazam and Reuniclus. Since you're losing Lappras, Ferrothorn becomes your Dragon killer and unfortunately you can't do anything but Leech Seed since most of them Resist Power Whip. Therefore I suggest using Gyro Ball > either Leech Seed or Protect. With the Gyro Ball suggestion you probably want a -Spe nature and 0 Spe IVs to fully abuse Gyro Ball's Speed requirement. An alternative EV spread for Ferrothorn is 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef, which gives you optimal mix bulk to tank hits from both side of the spectrum. That's all. Good luck!

    Set(s):

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitite
    EVs: 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Recover
  4. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    551
    Hey Master of Toad, welcome to Smogon! This is a pretty decent looking team you have here, I like the idea of trying to utilize Lapras in the OU Metagame. There are some threats to your team though but hopefully I can help you take care of some of those.

    The most evident threat to this team for me is Thundurus-T. If given the chance to set up a Nasty Plot it can easily sweep your whole team in the rain. I also see a slight weakness to sun teams, even though you have Specs Politoed to apply great pressure to Ninetales, a Venusaur under the sun is going to give this team a lot of trouble. With that being said I think these two threats are what we should be focusing on first. For this, I would recommend replacing your Sableye with a bulky LO Latias. Not only is Latias bulky enough to take hits from both of these threats but she can OHKO them with the proper move selection. Latias also outspeeds both of them (except Venusaur if the sun is up) to force switches and rack up hazard damage for your team.
    You can use this set:
    Latias @ Life Orb
    Timid Nature 112 HP/ 144 Sp Att/ 252 speed
    Draco Meteor
    Surf
    Psyshock
    Roost

    Now for your current sets I would try switching your item on Breloom to either a Fighting Gem or a Life Orb. Both of these give Breloom more immediate attacking power which I feel could be important for your team.

    On Ferrothorn I would try using the standard mixed Defensive set of 252 hp/ 88 def/168 sp def and a Relaxed Nature with 0 speed IV. This will give you some precious special bulk which can help against the many fearsome special sweepers in the OU tier. I would also advise that you switch Power Whip to Gyro Ball to hit Dragon Type sweepers for better damage as they are a potential threat to any team.

    Lastly on Tentacruel I would switch Ice Beam to Protect as you did in your Importable. The massive amount of HP Tentacruel can recover from Protect along with Toxic damage wearing down the opponent can be a game changer. You may also want to consider Toxic over Toxic Spikes since there are a decent amount of poison, steel and flying/levitate types in OU.

    I hope my suggestions helped! Good luck with the team and let me know how it works out!
  5. Master of Toad

    Master of Toad

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    151
    First of all thank you for your suggestions as you see I changed already the things I thought made the team better. =P I tested both replacing Lapras or Sableye with Latias in the end I thought that Sableye was the beter one to go. I am thinking about adding a SR setter to the team to give Ferro Sikes any ideas ?
  6. Boingo

    Boingo

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2008
    Messages:
    220
    Hmmm Curse Lapras...if you're trying to rain stall wouldn't a defensive Lapras be worth considering? It gets Perish Song to help with Baton Pass chains and other set-uppers. This team has no phazing Pokes, which is something stall teams generally want to have . It also gets Heal Bell , supporting your team even further. Your two remaining moves could be Ice Beam and Surf/Rest. Or you could stay phsical and use Waterfall/Ice Shard, keeping that nice Priority.

    Furthermore, all of Lapras' abilities are equally good for a Stall Team. Maybe you want to consider them. I know HydroRest is good to have, but then Rest can be a crutch if you get into a Weather Battle. I fancy immunity from Crits (=Shell Armor) myself.
  7. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,359
    Hi there. So, this is a pretty standard Rain stall team, but with Lapras...Lapras is a pretty cool option I guess, but it's generally outclassed by Vapoureon as a status absorber for the team. However, to keep the same idea of sweeping, I'm going to suggest a unique set that I think you'll like.

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Work Up
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Baton Pass / Ice Beam

    Vaporeon is still going to be able to sweep teams, act as a status absorber, but in addition to that, it's not weak to SR, or Fighting type attacks. Vaporeon can also make use of Baton Pass early game to scout it's switches and gain momentum. Scald is used for STAB and the 30% chance burn rate, while Rest keeps you nice and healthy while setting up. Ice Beam can be used over Baton Pass if you wish, to get past Dragon types and Toxicorak easier, but Baton Pass in general has more utility.

    Cool team
  8. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    hey i goy your request.
    I tried to build a team around lapras once, and it wasnt the best thing in the world. Its weakness to sr, bad typing that leaves it weak to common moves (rock, fight, eletric) , dependent on rain to work, not difficult to wall and with a bad offensive presence overall (ice shard not koing dragons for example) all make it difficult to make a good team around it.

    One thing i noticed is that your team barely beats ferrothorn with breloom (which isnt that difficult to wall anyway) but other than that it basically walls your wall team. At least i think you should change your latias set to a sub calm mind one, with substitute/dragon pulse/recover/calm mind, max spe, max hp timid, so that you can at least pp stall its gyro ball and with a bit of prediction you can sub when it leech seeds. I know its not the best solution in the world, but if for example you wanted to change lapras for a superpower feraligatr your team would have worked better, just saying.
    The other problem here is that other weathers wreacks you. You have a bad matchup against sand offense and sun, having tentacruel, lapras and ferrothorn basically useless against sun, and all your members other than breloom are fucked by rotom-w+scizor.
    Honestly all i can tell you is to try a special defensive spread on lapras to laugh at rotom-w volt switch, but thats all. gl!
  9. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,983
    Interesting team you have actually here, with the suggested changes from other raters already, this team functions quite nicely from what I can see.

    Overall, this team is pretty solid, covering most threats pretty well. A noticeable weakness I spotted was Sub-Gyarados which you don't have much for at all. I suggest either you find a way to get Power Whip on Forretress, probably over Protect or sneak something like HP-Electric on Politoed. Either of those would remedy the issue.

    I also further suggest the use of Calm Mind on Latias, it would help this team out a lot, currently Latias ain't doing much outside of checking a few things. The set suggested by Neliel is what I support.

    I don't think Swords Dance Breloom is the best fit for this team honestly, I am thinking that perhaps the Sub-Punch Breloom on site would be a better fit for the bulk nature of this team, taking advantage of Poison Heal, while at the same time having the attack to weak through Pokemon Lapras hates.

    Choice specs Politoed is kinda meh on this team IMO. I would have you consider either the Defensive or Choice Scarf set on site, they would help you more easily check a variety of threats like Hydregion, Terrakion, and Mamomswine which currently are borderline threats to the team. Also, I suggest you consider Perish Song on Poltoed considering the defensive nature of this team, it would help in last-mon situations, and against Pokemon like Reuniclus.

    I really want to see another Stealth Rock user on this team, so that Ferrothorn is free to use spikes, unfortunately I can't think of any that wouldn't miss up this team's nice synergy. Perhaps Chansey or Blissey might be a good fit with something else over Breloom and Latios, but at that point I am suggesting changes to an already solid team synergy. Just something to perhaps consider in the back of your mind and possibly toy with, if you want I can theorymon further.

    Good luck man.
  10. The Tyranitar

    The Tyranitar

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    150
    Hey man,
    I got your message and I'm glad you are being original with Lapras. One thing I noticed with this team is that you are fairly weak to SD Scizor. Scizor is very strong at +2 with Bug Bite going good damage even to Tentacruel. Big Bite will KO politoed more often than and hits many members of your team for strong damage. I think a Landorus-T would work in Lapras' place. Lapras is kinda mediocre and Lando-T can run Toxic abd check Terrakion and Scizor. Intimidate is a great ability that can weaken many physical threats. I think it serves a similar purpose as your Lapras with a nice mix of offense and defense. Trust me, Landorus-T is great for stall and I think it works well with your team.

    Landorus-T@Leftovers
    Adamant nature (+Atk -SpA)
    252 HP/ 56 Atk/ 200 Def
    Trait: Intimidate
    -Toxic/Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -U-turn

    *Note if you use stealth rock you could replace stealth rock on Ferrothorn for a different move of your choice. Or you could just use it as insurance against rapid spin and surprise your opponents with two stealth rock users.

    Next Samd Teams that run landorus+t-tar+keldeo. It's a common core that gives a lot of people trouble. Latias beats 2/3 members of this deadly core while Landorus-T can easily beat CB Tyranitar. This is just some advice on how to beat this core not really a suggestion but if you run the Landorus-T I suggested make sure to take out Tyranitar before attempting to beat the core. This will avoid pursuit trapping from Tyranitar.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents good luck and have fun battling!
    Princess Bubblegum likes this.
  11. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,818
    Hey there you should try to fit in power whip on Ferrothorn so that sub toxic tenta isn't able to freely spin on you whenever it wants. It's also just a good answer to waters in general like rotom, toed, and gyarados (which is problematic to your team without power whip).

    Additionally, I would give Tentacruel enough speed to hit 285 to outspeed Mamoswines. Mamoswine can take advantage of weakened pokemon on your team and start dealing some major damage to your team if it has hazard support. If you simply make your tentacruel fast enough to outspeed it, it becomes a lot less dangerous. I would also give it substitute over protect if you aren't using toxic spikes. Sub protect allows you to beat Jellicent 1v1 if it's trying to spinblock you. And it gives you another opportunity to scald burn other annoying pokemon like Ferrothorn and bulky waters in general.

    You have to play extremely well against sun for you to beat them, but I can't really think of anything to really help you in that matchup.
  12. Master of Toad

    Master of Toad

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    151
    @ShootinStarmie I like the idea and I tryed that set of vap over Lapras but I felt that I Lapras and Vaporen give the team unnecessary weaknesses and do not do to much for the team.

    @Neliel I agree this team has a hard time agaisnt Ferro but I have no idea how to fix that.

    @Scarfwynaut I have chosen HP Electric and it work out really good and also I am still trying the Latias set and I am not perfectly happy with it but overall it works better than before. In additon to that I tried your other 2 suggestions but for me they turned out not working. I acctualy added Bilissy now and I would be happy to here more toughts of you about that.

    @The Tyranitar I like Landarus-T and I played with it as much as with Blissy today but in the end I prefered Blissy and yes you are quite right with the weaknesses of the team , but I did not find a way to coop with that.

    @Chimpakt I see no way at the moment to fit Power Whip on Ferro since I really like Gyro Ball. I did not understand what your other suggestions are could you explain them a bit more Please.

    Thank you all for rating so far and I hope that you can help me to improve this team evenmore =P
  13. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,504
    Hey Master of Toed, sorry this took me so long, like I said, I don't do well with stall, but this is actually more heavy balanced so I think I might be able to help.

    The team is already pretty solid, so I'll just address some of the things other members have already talked about. The first one is Scizor. Swords Dance Scizor laughs at this team, since it can outspeed and Bug Bite everything for at least a 2HKO. You have Breloom to weaken Life Orb sets with Mach Punch or Spore bulkier versions and Tentacruel can hope for a burn, but that's about it. A simple thing you can do to fix your Scizor problem is to increase the speed on your Politoed to 212 EVs. This allows you to outspeed and OHKO Scizor with Hydro Pump. It's a shaky way to deal with something, since you will have to sacrifice something before you can bring it in, but it's a check nonetheless.
    Another problem I can see your team having is Tornadus with Superpower, since it can KO Blissey with that and everything else with Hurricane. I suggest using Specially Defensive Zapdos, which can counter both Swords Dance Scizor as well as Tornadus. I'm unsure where to put it though. My first thought was over Blissey, but I know you're going to want Stealth Rock and Spikes, so you could also use it over Latias, but ultimately the choice is up to you. If you replace Blissey, I would change Ferrothorn's set to Leech Seed / Spikes / Stealth Rock / Gyro Ball, since Protect is largely just for added recovery, and also gives your opponent an opportunity to get a free switch-in to something like Sub Disable Gengar which can ruin Ferrothorn's day.

    Hope I was able to help, though this type of team really isn't my style so I'm sorry if I wasn't. Good luck with the team!

    Sets
    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 212 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Focus Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Roost
    - Roar
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
  14. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,983
    I have seen 2 people say this team is SD-Scizor weak so far, and honestly, I am not seeing it. Tentacruel is a fine counter for Scizor in the rain, thanks to rain dish, at best it will 3HKO with Bug Bite, even with offensive Swords Dance, and in the mean time Scizor is going to be hit by 2 rain boosted Scalds. I wouldn't really call this team weak to it.

    Although I do like your suggestions for other reasons.
  15. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Mamoswine 2hko's your entire team except ferrothorn which is 3hko'd by LO EQ. Because ferrothorn doesnt have reliable recovery, mamo can just come back in later and you will be 2hko'd by it. If you increase tentacruel's speed to 285, then Mamoswine can only really scare you out from blissey, latias, and breloom with prior damage. you could also get a surprise kill on it if it think it can just come in outspeed and ohko you with eq, only to be ohko'd back by scald. 285 speed also can outspeed bulkier lando I's and jirachis thinking they can outspeed you as well.

    you REALLY need power whip on ferrothorn. sub tentacruel, bulky sub dd gyara , and some other set up sweepers can set up on ferrothorn and proceed to destroy your team because you didnt have power whip. Tentacruel freely spins away your hazards that you tried so hard to get up and that can definitely change the course of the game.

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