ORAS OU Sub M-Gyara + Lure Scizor

[Soul Ameliorate]

Hello! This is my second RMT, and this time we're focusing on a team TheKingKarp and I made together, focusing on our two favorite mons, Mega Gyarados, and Scizor. So without further ado, lets take a closer look at the team!

Team at a glance:

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Teambuilding Process

These were the first two mons on the team we wanted to build around, and we ultimately decided on Sub Mega Gyara with dual stabs, so in turn we wanted something to take out Rotom-W, since we don't have Earthquake, along with other things that stop Gyara. Since it just so happens that Scizor and Gyara have similar checks/counters, we decided on a Lure Scizor that would take out/weaken those mons so Gyara can sweep (more details and calcs below).

We then thought about a volt-turn core that could bring in Scizor and Gyara safely, while in turn being able to reliably set up Stealth Rock. Lando-T is just a solid mon that never disappoints, and also has the added bonus of forming a double Intimidate core with Gyara. Raikou was chosen as the next element of our volt-turn core, since without it, we are ridiculously weak to Thundurus-I.

Next we needed a Defogger/Spinner, and a solid check to Keldeo. well Latios is the obvious choice, so instead of being innovative we're gonna be standard as they come. The choice between Latios and Latias is unclear, as both can do their assigned role(s) effectively. TheKingKarp and I agreed that apon testing the team, he would use Latias and I would use Latios. I personally prefer the offensive presence that Latios prevides, and since the most common Keldeo set right now is Sub CM, I don't think that the added bulk Latias provides is necessary.

Finally, we needed a solid revenge killer. The main reason behind choosing Talonflame, other than the fact that it doesn't need a Choice Scarf to clean up, resulting in it not needing to be locked into a single move, is how Talonflame also has similar checks/counters to Scizor, so with Lure Scizor taking out specific targets such as Rotom-W, Heatran and Ferrothorn, it allows for not only Gyara to sweep, but for Talonflame to as well. Obviously this does make the team more Stealth Rock weak, so Defogging with Latios is a huge priority.

Literally within the first match of testing the team, I was fortunate enough (sarcasm) to come across a Rain team. With no surprise, I lost (although by a lesser margin than I thought I'd lose by), which made me realize how weak we are to Rain. Also, somehow we overlooked another issue - Latios. No, not ours, but rather an opposing Lati@s. How we overlooked such a common OU mon that we even slapped on our own team is beyond me. So we now needed something that can handle both Rain and Lati@s, without jeopardizing the team structure. Luckily, Ferrothorn happens to do just that, while still being able to set up Stealth Rock, thus replacing Landurus-T. Unfortunately, this rids the volt-turn/duel Intimidate core the team had, and makes us a little weaker to Talonflame, but I feel that this replacement was well worth it.

In Depth:​

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch

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The first member of the team: The role of Gyarados is simply to sweep the opposing team, with support from its teamates. We decided on Substitute over Earthquake because it allows us to set up on things like bulky water types, such as Alomomola and Slowbro, while also easing prediction. 196 Speed with a Jolly nature insures that Gyarados outspeeds Mega Lopunny after a Dragon Dance.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Swords Dance

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The second member of the team, Scizor. Scizor's role is simply to lure in common checks to Gyarados and Talonflame, and eliminate them. 216 Speed is to outspeed 44 Speed Rotom-W, with the rest dumped into HP. Bullet Punch for STAB priority, Bug Bite to OHKO Rotom-W at +2 after Stealth Rock, and Superpower to outspeed and have a good chance to OHKO Heatran. Life Orb is to secure KO's on the aforementioned mons.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

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Again, Ferrothorn's role is to provide an answer to Rain teams and the Lati twins, while also setting up Stealth Rock, which is crucial to allow certain kills from Scizor (calcs below). The spread and moveset (other than Stealth Rock) can easily be changed, but since I'm not fully sure yet what to change it to (if anything at all), I'll just leave it as the standard set. PLEASE LEAVE SUGGESTIONS if you believe than an alternate spread/moveset would benefit the team more.

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball

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Raikou is our fourth team member because of its fantastic Speed stat, access to Volt Switch, and most importantly, a reliable check to Thundurus-I. Volt Switch is mandatory for momentum, while Thunderbolt is a much stronger STAB that doesn't force you to switch out. Hidden Power Ice and Shadow ball are coverage moves to hit certain mons super-effectively, such as Landurus and Latios respectively. 0 Attack IVs are to take less damage from Confusion and Foul Play.

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Roost

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Latios was chosen as our fifth addition to the team due to it's access to Defog, and its ability to check Keldeo. Roost is chosen over a coverage move to allow Latios to consistently check Keldeo. Latias is equally as viable, although Healing Wish and the extra bulk provided are the main selling factors - the only thing is that Roost is such a needed move to consistently check Keldeo, that to make room for Healing Wish, you would need to get rid of Psyshock. Also, since the most common Keldeo set right now is Sub CM, the extra bulk doesn't hold as much merit as you won't typically be taking +1 attacks. However, having a Latias with 72 HP does gaurentee that it will avoid a 2HKO from Life Orb Thundurus-I's Hidden Power Ice, but keep in mind that that is only when Stealth Rock is removed.

Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

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And finally, the last member of the team is none other then Talonflame. Talonflame serves as the team's revenge killer, and shouldn't find it too hard to sweep due to its other team members weakening its checks. 168 Speed with a Jolly nature insures that Talonflame outspeeds Raikou, and OHKOs with Flare Blitz after a Swords Dance. Roost can be replaced by U-turn, to revive that Volt-Turn feel, although Roost makes setting up Swords Dances much easier.

Threats to the Team

Mega Altaria - If it has Flamethrower/Fire Blast, nothing really switches in, except maybe Talonflame. But if rocks are up, there may be trouble afoot

Mega Charizard X - After a Dragon Dance, this thing can do massive damage - the only way to potentially stop this monster is to get a free switch into Gyara to get an Intimidate off, retaliate with a STAB move, as if you Dragon Dance, and they predict you and Dragon Dance along side you, well it's gg. Afterwards, go out to Talonflame and revenge kill with Brave Bird. All of this can only be achieved if Stealth Rock is off your side of the field, since a neutral Outrage does 76.8% minimum to Mega Gyarados

Gengar - Honestly, what team isn't troubled by this thing? This team has no direct counters, only checks. I mean seriously, look at all the Shadow Ball switch ins! And if it's a Life Orb Gengar, it just makes matters worse. An option worth considering is Tyranitar over Ferrothorn, but it would need to be scarfed to reliably beat Gengar, and scarfed Stealth Rock doesn't sound too appealing

Landurus-I - Knock Off variants can really hurt this team, as the rest of the team can only check Lando at best

Latios - Hidden Power Fire variants shut down this team's main answer to the Lati Twins, Ferrothorn. Again, this results in the team only having checks

MEGA LOPUNNY - No where to run, no where to hide. The God of destruction is among us. Zero counters, zero switch ins - only checks. You get the idea, it's a threat

Terrakion - Lots of checks, no counters to its STAB moves I.E. what can take a Stone Edge cannot take a Close Combat and vice versa

Damage Calcs:​

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148 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raikou: 121-144 (37.6 - 44.8%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raikou: 169-200 (52.6 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 260-307 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 296-350 (84 - 99.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 208-246 (69.1 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 289-341 (95 - 112.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 212-250 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Scizor Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 356-421 (92.4 - 109.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 335-395 (95.1 - 112.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 250-296 (71 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raikou: 360-424 (112.1 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 186-220 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 381-448 (127.4 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 207-244 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 136-162 (45.7 - 54.5%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 156-184 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 157-186 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 174-205 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 156-185 (44 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Replay (only have one noteworthy one atm):

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-208319156



Importable:​

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Swords Dance

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Roost

Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost


Aaaaaaaand there you have it! Feel free to use this team for yourself, and be sure to let me know what you think of it! Please leave any suggestions at all, as no team can be perfect, but all teams can feature error. Thanks for taking the time to read through this, and shout-outs to TheKingKarp for helping with such a cool team!
Later :]]]]
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[TheKingKarp]

Good looking team we built fren :] remember the three line rule though lol

As for changes I'd like to suggest a few.
First this team is very weak to bisharp for this I would recommend making scizor outspeed adamant bish. also I recommend running HP fighting on Latios to make it a little bit easier against bish
Second I think a way to strengthen the team is to make Talonflame A CB set. With the Immediate power it allows us to deal with set up sweepers that might get a free turn against the team.

Other than that nice team :]]

 

[Riahi]

I suggest EQ on Latios, the team struggles against Heatran.
Earthquake > Crunch on Gyarados

 

[Brendannn]

Would AV Raikou fit on the team well? Helps deal with Gengar and I don't think you lose anything by getting rid of leftovers. Also running HP Grass on Raikou could be useful>HP Ice because Thunderbolt hits Thundy harder than HP Ice and Shadow Ball hits the Latis harder than HP Ice. I still recommend running Assault Vest on Raikou but if you want to keep HP Ice I think it'll work well. Btw HP Grass hits Water-Ground types a lot harder than any of your other mons' moves. It's really good as well because with Assault Vest Raikou will probably be your best mon to take Scalds. GL!

 

[Soul Ameliorate]

Would AV Raikou fit on the team well? Helps deal with Gengar and I don't think you lose anything by getting rid of leftovers. Also running HP Grass on Raikou could be useful>HP Ice because Thunderbolt hits Thundy harder than HP Ice and Shadow Ball hits the Latis harder than HP Ice. I still recommend running Assault Vest on Raikou but if you want to keep HP Ice I think it'll work well. Btw HP Grass hits Water-Ground types a lot harder than any of your other mons' moves. It's really good as well because with Assault Vest Raikou will probably be your best mon to take Scalds. GL!

Thanks for the suggestion! I personally prefer Lefties over AV for the longevity, and regarding HP Grass, I would miss out on hitting both forms of Landurus for super-effective damage - I maaaaay opt for Power Whip on Ferro tho to deal with bulky waters a bit more reliably

 

[GeeMick]

I suggest EQ on Latios, the team struggles against Heatran.
Earthquake > Crunch on Gyarados

I would like to state that if Gyara got better since it got Crunch in ORAS, you shouldn't suggest EQ on the set unless you explain what exactly it beats for the team that Crunch doesn't or that are more important to beat. Because before ORAS Gyara was walled by every bulky grass and water in OU, and now it can get around stuff like Latios, Celebi, Ferrothorn and the likes easier.

 

[Conquer Phoenix]

Mayb to help with that birsharp and heatran weakness keldeo is a good poke instead of maybe talonflame. Keldo covers some weakness to your team maybe give it a choice scarf to out speed some megas.

My second choice would be just normal landerous for the sludge bomb for mega altira and gard and that land can be scarf.

 

[TheKingKarp]

I actually agree with the Keldeo suggestion. We have electric grass and bird resists. A scarf variant allows us to beat plus 1. Gyarados and lopunny. Another option to relieve our weakness would be running jolly bisharp with low kick. Also gives us something for lati@s.

Huehue posting during school

 

[Soul Ameliorate]

I actually agree with the Keldeo suggestion. We have electric grass and bird resists. A scarf variant allows us to beat plus 1. Gyarados and lopunny. Another option to relieve our weakness would be running jolly bisharp with low kick. Also gives us something for lati@s.

Huehue posting during school

Imma try out scarf Keld for sure, but what would you replace for Bisharp if we were to run it? If you mean replace Talon, then it could work, but relying on Sucker Punch as a primary means of revenge killing doesn't sound like the most reliable thing (I assume Scizor would be fainted/weakened as it tries to "wallbreak" early on).

 

[Zebstrika]

Maybe try Clefable over Ferrothorn

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Moonlight

Physically defensive Clefable is a full Lopunny and Latios counter. It checks Terrakion decently, it can also take a hit or two from Mega Altaria depending on Altaria's EVs, and Thunder Wave ensures that Clefable can at least stop Mega Altaria or Charizard X from fully sweeping your team (unaware is supposed to help here, to take a +1 or +2 hit from them and not die, and it also means Clefable doesn't get 2HKO'd by Power-up punch Lopunny)

Not as good as Ferrothorn at trolling rain teams but hopefully Keldeo can help with that

 

[BigMambo]

Isn't magnezone kinda a threat to your team as well? It can trap your scizor and ferro. It's also not good for gyarados if you haven't D-Danced. Perhaps you can replace raikou with volt absorb thundurus since you dont have ground type so opponent can just click volt switch and gain momentum.

 

[Donkey Punish]

Yeah i just tried this team yesterday its pretty good but it gets pooped on by heatran and magnezone also superpower azu

 

[RotomSock]

Hi! I know this thread is kinda old but I kinda jacked your team and I've been laddering with it a good amount. I messed around with the lati slot a lot but finally settled on eq lati because this team hates heatran. But it's a pretty nice squad, I actually used it to get reqs for indigo plateau on my alt agilesock without noticing any huge problems

 

[Scotti]

Hey cool team, but I have some suggestions that could help.

I personally think you should run a more spdef sd talonflame. Spdef SD talonflame allows you to have a win con, and it is an amazing check to gengar, lando-i, mega alt, and mega charizard y. All of these are threats to your team, and spdef sd talonflame offers a counter/check to all of these. You should run a set of SD | Brave Bird | Will-O-Wisp | Roost | and a spread of 248 Hp | 244 SpDef | 16 Spe | Careful Nature | Leftovers. The moveset is pretty standard, but will-o-wisp instead of taunt so you can take on mega alt alot easier. The spread is the one I use, so I can speed creep opposing spdef tflames and keep an odd hp number for stealth rocks. The next change you should max is running mixed hippowdon over raikou. In your threat list you are weak to gengar, mega lop, terrak, mega charizard x. Hippowdon offers a very nice check to all of these, and it handles pokemon like thundurus, mega man, and talonflame. So it handles most of the things raikou handles, and more. You should run Slack Off | Earthquake | Stone Edge | Stealth Rock | by running this moveset, you can also make another change. You could also run spikes on ferrothorn, because you run rocks on hippo. You also don't have to run rocks on hippo, but if you like that better go for it, and run whatever on ferrothorn over rocks. Use an ev spread of 252 hp | 84 def | 172 spdef | Leftovers on Hippowdon. This allows you to live +2 return from hippo, and take on gengar and mixed thundrus. Shoutout to Enki because I saw you post this spread, and I really liked it. I also recommend running 29 hp ivs on latios as it helps latios hit a life orb number.

I hope I helped.

 

[Soul Ameliorate]

Hey cool team, but I have some suggestions that could help.

I personally think you should run a more spdef sd talonflame. Spdef SD talonflame allows you to have a win con, and it is an amazing check to gengar, lando-i, mega alt, and mega charizard y. All of these are threats to your team, and spdef sd talonflame offers a counter/check to all of these. You should run a set of SD | Brave Bird | Will-O-Wisp | Roost | and a spread of 248 Hp | 244 SpDef | 16 Spe | Careful Nature | Leftovers. The moveset is pretty standard, but will-o-wisp instead of taunt so you can take on mega alt alot easier. The spread is the one I use, so I can speed creep opposing spdef tflames and keep an odd hp number for stealth rocks. The next change you should max is running mixed hippowdon over raikou. In your threat list you are weak to gengar, mega lop, terrak, mega charizard x. Hippowdon offers a very nice check to all of these, and it handles pokemon like thundurus, mega man, and talonflame. So it handles most of the things raikou handles, and more. You should run Slack Off | Earthquake | Stone Edge | Stealth Rock | by running this moveset, you can also make another change. You could also run spikes on ferrothorn, because you run rocks on hippo. You also don't have to run rocks on hippo, but if you like that better go for it, and run whatever on ferrothorn over rocks. Use an ev spread of 252 hp | 84 def | 172 spdef | Leftovers on Hippowdon. This allows you to live +2 return from hippo, and take on gengar and mixed thundrus. Shoutout to Enki because I saw you post this spread, and I really liked it. I also recommend running 29 hp ivs on latios as it helps latios hit a life orb number.

I hope I helped.

Very solid suggestions, and you make some excellent points - as much as I like Raikou, Hippo + SpD Talon patches up most of the weaknesses the team has. I'll definitely be trying these edits out, and thanks again for the ideas :]