SubPass Zapdos [QC 0/3]

This set may not be a game changer, but I think it's an improvement over a common Zapdos set: SubRoost. SubRoost uses Thunderbolt and a Hidden Power move for coverage. But Hidden Power is one of the worst moves I've tried out with non-offensive Zapdos. Heat Wave is generally more effective, but offers poor coverage. So all in all, defensive Zapdos loses utility with a second attack move.

Therefore, Baton Pass.

[Set]
name: SubPass
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Thunderbolt / Discharge
move 4: Roost / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Flying
item: Magnet / Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
EVs: 224 HP / 36 Def / 72 SAtk / 176 Spd
IVs: 0 Atk

[Set Comments]
*Zapdos' typing and stats make it a fearsome Pokemon to place on the field, so the natural aim of this set is to take advantage of the pressure Zapdos immediately puts on the opposition and aid the rest of your team by Baton Passing a Substitute. This strategy circumvents the whole "coverage move" thing by giving Zapdos a "coverage Pokemon".
*Substitute is so boss a move as to not even finish this sentence
*Baton Pass replaces Hidden Power on the standard SubRoost set. It is a great scouting move and momentum-keeper.
*Zapdos' speed lets it Baton Pass faster than most of its threats, or setup another Sub or Roost on the Stone Edge mons.
*Roost gives Zapdos a way of stalling, which, in combination Pressure, can result in a very effective stall.
*It would be a complete waste not to put Thunderbolt on any Zapdos set, so there it is.

[Additional Comments]
*The standard EV spread (248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spd) was not applied to this set because I created this set through raw experimentation. My spread allows Zapdos' Substitutes to sponge Foul Play, and the remaining EVs are invested in its SAtk to give Dos some bite to its bark. It also shimmies around Porygon's Download by keeping its SDef 1 point higher than Def. As far as I can tell there's no real need to give Dos more Def since Substitute blocks coverage moves. However, revert to the original spread if you're more comfortable with it. HP is an odd-value number, so Dos can switch in on Stealth Rocks four times. The speed and nature keep it faster than the base 90 mons.
*The magnet gives Zapdos extra staying power without sacrificing HP ala Life Orb. Leftovers is a great option as always, but I think Zapdos needs the bump.
*Unfortunately Zapdos doesn't have anything else viable besides a Substitute to Baton Pass. There's Charge Beam and Charge, but they are a waste of moveslots, and most of the Pokemon who can best receive Zapdos' SubPass don't need boosts on the special side. However, experiment at your leisure. Cofagrigus and Suicune seem like great receivers for a Charge / Charge Beam set, though I haven't tested that.
*Been meaning to test out Discharge for a while. It's less powerful than Thunderbolt but the increased chance of paralysis could be worth it.
*If you really like Hidden Power, replace Roost with the one of your choice (and obviously, get Leftovers on there) or just revert to the SubRoost set altogether by removing Baton Pass. Ice and Flying are the most useful HPs on Zapdos. However, do note that you'll have to change your EV or IV spread so that Zapdos has either more Def or less Atk to sponge Foul Play. The IV changes mostly make Zapdos weaker so EV changes, or a combination of both, are preferred.
**Suggested IVs for HP Ice: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 31 everything else
**Suggested IVs for HP Flying: 31 HP / 2 Atk / 31 Def / 30 everything else

Other comments:
*There are a number of great Pokemon to set up on. Umbreon stands out, as it has absolutely nothing in its arsenal to stop Zapdos setting up a substitute and either passing it along or PP stalling with Roost. Defensive Cobalion and Bronzong are also great setup fodder. If you decide to bring Dos out on the first turn, enjoy watching a number of scout Pokemon outright run for the hills.
*Rhyperior, bulky water mons, and Hitmontop LOVE LOVE LOVE receiving a SubPass to handle Zapdos' checks and counters. Bisharp loves setting up on Zapdos' setup fodder as well, such as Umbreon, and it easily sponges ice, grass, and rock attacks. With a dedicated SubPasser in Zapdos, Sharp becomes free to equip Swords Dance and three coverage moves.
*Hitmontop gets second mention as a spinner who can keep the field clear of Stealth Rocks, which Zapdos hates. Blastoise as well.
*Baton Pass evades Pursuit; yet another mention goes to Hitmontop as a strong counter to Pursuit Snorlax.
*There are a large number of other good Pokemon to baton pass to. Ultimately it depends on your team preference, but take note of Zapdos' counters when deciding.

Checks and Counters:
*Strongest counter: Rhyperior. It feeds on Zapdos for breakfast.
*CM Raikou is technically a counter. However, if Raikou switches in on Zapdos, the following turn you can scout what move it will use with Baton Pass. If you already have a substitute up then Raikou can't touch you on the way out, and if you have a Rhyperior in waiting then even better. Players also like to use a stall move like Calm Mind instead of attacking to break down the Sub right away, so all in all, Sub or no Sub, Zapdos can usually Baton Pass out of a Raikou gridlock with ease.
*Zapdos' main checks are ground Pokemon and other electric mons, namely: Nidoking, Swampert, Rhyperior, Raikou, the Rotoms, and offensive Zapdos. Note that Zapdos is faster than half of them and can easily exhaust the Rotoms (particularly Rotom-H's Overheat) with SubRoost.
*Offensive Shaymin is the only viable grass-type threat I've seen so far, barring a Rotom-Mow who uses Thunderbolt in conjunction with Volt Switch. The reason is because these Shaymin often carry Psychic and are faster than this version of Zapdos.
*Abomasnow is a general ass to any Pokemon so I don't think I need to mention it as a viable counter. However, Snow and other ice mons fear Heat Wave so they are rare matchups with Zapdos.
*Specially defensive Roserade carrying Sludge Bomb has no difficulty breaking down all of Zapdos' subs or sponging its Thunderbolts.
 
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Oglemi

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If you're submitting a single set you only have to worry about the [SET COMMENTS] and [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] sections. Any information that you have in the other sections that could go there should be put there, otherwise you don't need to worry about stuff like the Overview.
 
I just copy/pasted the format of another analysis on here. I removed the Overview but lumping everything under AC would make it less organized and readable. The purpose of QC is to check each point for validity correct?
 

Agonist

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**Suggested IVs for HP Ice: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 27 Spd / 31 everything else
**Suggested IVs for HP Flying: 31 HP / 14 Atk / 31 Def / 30 everything else
No.
HP Ice should be 31/e/30/31/31/31 and HP Flying should be either 30/e/30/30/30/31 or 31/x/31/30/30/30.
 

Oglemi

Borf
is a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
I just copy/pasted the format of another analysis on here. I removed the Overview but lumping everything under AC would make it less organized and readable. The purpose of QC is to check each point for validity correct?
You can still separate it out but for going onsite you just need the two tags. If you look at the analyses onsite for each set there is only one drop option which gives you all the information that you have in the OP.

[Other Options] and [Checks and Counters] are for the Pokemon in general, not for each set on the analysis. However, you should have some of that information that pertains directly to that set under [Additional Comments].
 
Oh I see, so the brackets are for parsing through code. Thanks for letting me know.

The Agonist: please explain your spread. I used this site in conjunction with PokeGen to figure out my own, and the values I listed above are spreads with the lowest possible Atk IV that still give Hidden Power 70 base power.

Okay, I just tested the HP Flying with 2 Atk and all the other IVs you recommended and it has 70 base power, so I will update that. Will try to get Ice with that spread as well.
 
I'm in the process of experimenting with Charge Beam. Umbreon is a common counter to Zapdos, so I think the combination of Charge Beam and SubRoost would be viable, followed by Baton Pass to a special attacker of choice. I suspect ground and electric Pokemon to wall Zapdos frequently in either case, plus the elimination of paralysis chance would help Zapdos set up on Umbreon even harder.

Will update my progress.
 
All this set does is simply waste 25% to give the next switch-in a free safe switch-in in exchange for being able to hit some Pokemon whom you would be able to even beat otherwise. Almost all the Pokemon that force you out are slower meaning that even if you BP, its not like you are going to be seeing their move beforehand and take advantage of it. No, this set does not counter Raikou. Losing Roost for a Hidden Power + no leftovers just isn't right. I appreciate the effort you put in and your enthusiasm, however....

QC REJECTED 1/3
 
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