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Sun Discussion Thread
- Thread starter No Luck Involved
- Start date
No mention at all of Claydol? He can set up Sun and SR, spin hazards with ease, and even resists Quake-Edge. Moreover, his Water weakness is covered by the presence of sun. Imo, he's a staple in the RU sun team. Also, you might want to at least mention Mesprit. Though it is outclassed as a bulky Sun support poke by Uxie, Mesprit does have better offensive capabilities, in addition to possessing the ever-useful Healing Wish.Tropius might deserve a mention, being the only poke to receive both Chlorophyll and DD. A set of DD/Bullet Seed/Frustration/EQ (maybe Aerial Ace over EQ, considering the prominence of Mega and such, backed by the limited amount of Steel types) could prove to be rather effective. Lastly, Eviolite Shelgon can shut down a variety of Sun-based threats, resisting both Grass and Fire and hitting back with [Preferred Dragon Move] or Flamethrower, maintaining his Hp with Wish/Rest.
Meganium can also summon the sun with a Heat Rock, Synthesis and Screen support increasing her already nice bulk. Is Leaf Guard released yet? That would make her completely invulnerable to status, which is kinda nice. She's not used very often, less so as a whether inducer, so there's the surprise factor too.
Meh. Meganium just componds a fire weakness sun teams already have. You really shouldnt have more than 1 grass type (unless useful double type) considering grass is a pretty bad defensive type and I would much rather have my grass type be Exeggutor or Lilligant on a sun team. Wow Claydol wasnt metioned? I just sorta assumed considering how generic of a member it is.
Lol this is not an article this is a discussion thread! The OP is in no way representative of all of the options available to a Sun team. In fact, they are just a tiny fragment of what is available. But yes I will add those mentioned as soon as :p
Generally when running a Sun team you want 2 Cloro Sweepers, especially when you have to set up the weather every 8 turns. It allows for greater versatility and the ability to beat more pokemon. For instance Special Exeggutor loses to Muchlax, but your physical Shiftry could muscle past it. It also works kinda like DoubleDragon in OU, one sweeper weakens enemies for the next sweeper to blast through.
Grass really isn't a bad type defensively, just isn't so great with all the bugs running around. Your obligatory fire type can deal with them though.
On that note running a Flash fire pokemon is always good on a sun team. A 540 Base power Flare Blitz/Fire Blast will kill most things.
Solar Power charizar only dies so quickly. I agree with Byrn Dragonstone. 2 Chrolo Sweepers, 2 sunny day users, a fire type and then something to help the team beat certain threats such as Yanmega.
So for example;
Cress, Claydol, Lilligant, Shiftry, Moltres, (sth like Lanturn/Fighting-type as 6th mon i think)
So for example;
Cress, Claydol, Lilligant, Shiftry, Moltres, (sth like Lanturn/Fighting-type as 6th mon i think)
Charizard was mentioned ppl :rollseyes:
Charizard has like 1 check in the tier, Munchlax, who is 3HKO'd. 252/252+ Cresselia is 2HKO'd by Fire Blast. Nothing else will even come close to that. When Charizard hits RU it will be a monster. It also has the added part of being base 100 Spe which is really good in this tier. Probably the biggest thing about Charizard though it the fact that it is the only Fire type to learn Dragon Dance.
Truthfully, I think Timid Scarf Accelgor would be one of the best pokemon for the slot, as it can even outspeed Speed Boost Yanmega at +2 and revenge it with HP Rock.
Does Scarf Accelgor hit hard enough to successfully revenge these threats? Would love to see some tasty damage calcs!
Modest Focus Blast vs. 132 HP Agility PoryZ:
328 Atk vs 216 Def & 344 HP (120 Base Power): 262 - 310 (76.16% - 90.12%)
Timid HP Rock vs. 252 HP Yanmega:
299 Atk vs 147 Def & 376 HP (70 Base Power): 408 - 484 (108.51% - 128.72%)
Hasty U-turn vs. Sharpedo (bug buzz is an easy 1hko):
176 Atk vs 106 Def & 291 HP (70 Base Power): 252 - 296 (86.60% - 101.72%)
Modest Giga Drain vs. 104/0 Omastar:
328 Atk vs 186 Def & 302 HP (75 Base Power): 384 - 452 (127.15% - 149.67%)
Modest scarf accelgor outspeeds the standard sets for all these pokemon and can pick off weakened pokemon with stab bug buzz, and can also outspeed anything slower than +2 swsw omastar in rain (and some bulkier sets are outsped even in rain!). The standard Omastar Shell Smash set is outsped at +4 by Accelgor and 1hko'ed by Giga Drain).
It's good on paper, so once I make a sun team in RU i'll test it out.
328 Atk vs 216 Def & 344 HP (120 Base Power): 262 - 310 (76.16% - 90.12%)
Timid HP Rock vs. 252 HP Yanmega:
299 Atk vs 147 Def & 376 HP (70 Base Power): 408 - 484 (108.51% - 128.72%)
Hasty U-turn vs. Sharpedo (bug buzz is an easy 1hko):
176 Atk vs 106 Def & 291 HP (70 Base Power): 252 - 296 (86.60% - 101.72%)
Modest Giga Drain vs. 104/0 Omastar:
328 Atk vs 186 Def & 302 HP (75 Base Power): 384 - 452 (127.15% - 149.67%)
Modest scarf accelgor outspeeds the standard sets for all these pokemon and can pick off weakened pokemon with stab bug buzz, and can also outspeed anything slower than +2 swsw omastar in rain (and some bulkier sets are outsped even in rain!). The standard Omastar Shell Smash set is outsped at +4 by Accelgor and 1hko'ed by Giga Drain).
It's good on paper, so once I make a sun team in RU i'll test it out.
Thanks for the calcs Kenshiro, looks very promising!
I have another thing that could potentially be very useful in sun:
If you wanted something that could defeat hazard leads:
Rampardos @ Life Orb
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def
Adamant / Mold Breaker
Stone Edge/Head Smash
Crunch/Zen Headbutt
Earthquake/Substitute
Superpower
Perfect coverage on every hazard lead, since this is the kind of Pokémon you can opt to lead with if you see a bulky lead in the front. Head Smash is a nice attack, even with the recoil. LO Stone Edge cleanly 1hkos 252/252 Crustle. LO Superpower cleanly 1hkos Ferroseed and most Normal-type walls in the tier except Eviolite Vigoroth, who is 2hko'ed after the attack drop. Earthquake is there for coverage for the most part, since most bulky rock-types are too strong to be 1hko'ed. Crunch has a chance of 2hko'ing Cresselia and easily 2hko's Claydol and Uxie. Head Smash is a GUARANTEED 2HKO on Cress, though it obviously comes at the cost of your Rampardos and only works if both attacks connect. Zen Headbutt is an option to 1hko bulky fighters like Hariyama. The problem with this set is that it can be easily revenged, hence why Substitute is an option over Earthquake (most things in RU are covered by Rock/Fighting). This pokemon can put early pressure on your opponent and force them to make a sacrifice or misplay, which will open your opponent up for a sweep. The goal isn't to prevent the setting up of hazards, it's just to put the opponent in a tight spot and have a final Pokémon that can break through Munchlax and stuff like Mandibuzz.
If you wanted something that could defeat hazard leads:
Rampardos @ Life Orb
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def
Adamant / Mold Breaker
Stone Edge/Head Smash
Crunch/Zen Headbutt
Earthquake/Substitute
Superpower
Perfect coverage on every hazard lead, since this is the kind of Pokémon you can opt to lead with if you see a bulky lead in the front. Head Smash is a nice attack, even with the recoil. LO Stone Edge cleanly 1hkos 252/252 Crustle. LO Superpower cleanly 1hkos Ferroseed and most Normal-type walls in the tier except Eviolite Vigoroth, who is 2hko'ed after the attack drop. Earthquake is there for coverage for the most part, since most bulky rock-types are too strong to be 1hko'ed. Crunch has a chance of 2hko'ing Cresselia and easily 2hko's Claydol and Uxie. Head Smash is a GUARANTEED 2HKO on Cress, though it obviously comes at the cost of your Rampardos and only works if both attacks connect. Zen Headbutt is an option to 1hko bulky fighters like Hariyama. The problem with this set is that it can be easily revenged, hence why Substitute is an option over Earthquake (most things in RU are covered by Rock/Fighting). This pokemon can put early pressure on your opponent and force them to make a sacrifice or misplay, which will open your opponent up for a sweep. The goal isn't to prevent the setting up of hazards, it's just to put the opponent in a tight spot and have a final Pokémon that can break through Munchlax and stuff like Mandibuzz.
Lol I love how as soon as there is another weather discussion thread the other one dies. In an attempt to bring this back to life, I dont know the viability of Murkorw as a sunny day user. It has to choose between Eviolite and Heat rock, has pretty bad synergy with common sun abusers, and is more stally so can suck momentum and sun turns away. Especially with Sableye in the picture now its completely outclassed.
Yeah I updated that before Sableye was released, so it is completely outclassed now lol. Priority Sunny Day is always useful though so I'll change it for Sableye.
Sp. Def Flareon... Its his time to shine now.
Charizard gets stopped cold by Mantine does it not?
Played one battle after the tiers updated and I did this...
Way too strong for RU imo
Edit: @Texas Cloverleaf based on my calculations Charizard 3HKOs Mantine with Solar Power Boosted Fire Blast in sun after Stealth Rock. (Probs 2hko after 2 switch ins but I didn't check). So after a bit of prior damage even Mantine will fall to Charizard and his reign of terror will continue.
Battle between yerMOM and Testing Grandpa started!
Tier: Standard RU
Mode: Singles
Variation: +15, -17
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle
Rule: Self-KO Clause
Your team: Uxie / Vileplume / Sawsbuck / Charizard / Honchkrow / Staryu
Opponent's team: Sableye / Sceptile / Porygon-Z / Moltres / Venomoth / Dusknoir
Testing Grandpa sent out Charizard!
yerMOM sent out Sableye!
Start of turn 1
The foe's Sableye used Will-O-Wisp!
Charizard used Overheat!
A critical hit!
The foe's Sableye lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Sableye fainted!
Charizard's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
yerMOM sent out Porygon-Z!
The foe's Porygon-Z's Download activates!
The foe's Porygon-Z's Attack rose!
Start of turn 2
Testing Grandpa called Charizard back!
Testing Grandpa sent out Uxie!
The foe's Porygon-Z used Zap Cannon!
Uxie lost 132 HP! (37% of its health)
Uxie is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Start of turn 3
The foe's Porygon-Z used Zap Cannon!
Uxie lost 125 HP! (35% of its health)
Uxie used Sunny Day!
The sunlight turned harsh!
The sunlight is strong!
Start of turn 4
yerMOM called Porygon-Z back!
yerMOM sent out Dusknoir!
The foe's Dusknoir is exerting its Pressure!
Uxie used U-turn!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Dusknoir lost 6% of its health!
Testing Grandpa called Uxie back!
Testing Grandpa sent out Charizard!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
The foe's Dusknoir restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Start of turn 5
Charizard used Fire Blast!
The foe's Dusknoir lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Dusknoir fainted!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
yerMOM sent out Porygon-Z!
The foe's Porygon-Z's Download activates!
The foe's Porygon-Z's Attack rose!
Start of turn 6
Charizard used Fire Blast!
The foe's Porygon-Z lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Porygon-Z fainted!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
yerMOM sent out Moltres!
The foe's Moltres is exerting its Pressure!
Start of turn 7
Charizard used Fire Blast!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Moltres lost 77% of its health!
The foe's Moltres used Substitute!
The foe's Moltres hasn't enough energy left!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
The foe's Moltres restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Start of turn 8
Charizard used Fire Blast!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Moltres lost 28% of its health!
The foe's Moltres fainted!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
yerMOM: charizard is ru?
Testing Grandpa: si
yerMOM sent out Venomoth!
yerMOM: damn
Testing Grandpa: when the tiers updated
Start of turn 9
Charizard used Fire Blast!
It's super effective!
The foe's Venomoth lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Venomoth fainted!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
yerMOM sent out Sceptile!
Testing Grandpa: hes so stronth
yerMOM: yeah i noticed
Start of turn 10
Testing Grandpa called Charizard back!
Testing Grandpa sent out Uxie!
The foe's Sceptile used Acrobatics!
The foe's Sceptile's Flight Gem raised Acrobatics's power!
Uxie lost 76 HP! (21% of its health)
The sunlight faded!
Testing Grandpa: lol
Start of turn 11
The foe's Sceptile used Acrobatics!
Uxie lost 21 HP! (5% of its health)
Uxie fainted!
Testing Grandpa sent out Honchkrow!
Start of turn 12
The foe's Sceptile used Leaf Blade!
It's not very effective...
Honchkrow lost 92 HP! (26% of its health)
Honchkrow used Substitute!
Honchkrow made a substitute!
Start of turn 13
The foe's Sceptile used Acrobatics!
Honchkrow's substitute faded!
Honchkrow used Brave Bird!
It's super effective!
Tier: Standard RU
Mode: Singles
Variation: +15, -17
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle
Rule: Self-KO Clause
Your team: Uxie / Vileplume / Sawsbuck / Charizard / Honchkrow / Staryu
Opponent's team: Sableye / Sceptile / Porygon-Z / Moltres / Venomoth / Dusknoir
Testing Grandpa sent out Charizard!
yerMOM sent out Sableye!
Start of turn 1
The foe's Sableye used Will-O-Wisp!
Charizard used Overheat!
A critical hit!
The foe's Sableye lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Sableye fainted!
Charizard's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
yerMOM sent out Porygon-Z!
The foe's Porygon-Z's Download activates!
The foe's Porygon-Z's Attack rose!
Start of turn 2
Testing Grandpa called Charizard back!
Testing Grandpa sent out Uxie!
The foe's Porygon-Z used Zap Cannon!
Uxie lost 132 HP! (37% of its health)
Uxie is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Start of turn 3
The foe's Porygon-Z used Zap Cannon!
Uxie lost 125 HP! (35% of its health)
Uxie used Sunny Day!
The sunlight turned harsh!
The sunlight is strong!
Start of turn 4
yerMOM called Porygon-Z back!
yerMOM sent out Dusknoir!
The foe's Dusknoir is exerting its Pressure!
Uxie used U-turn!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Dusknoir lost 6% of its health!
Testing Grandpa called Uxie back!
Testing Grandpa sent out Charizard!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
The foe's Dusknoir restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Start of turn 5
Charizard used Fire Blast!
The foe's Dusknoir lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Dusknoir fainted!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
yerMOM sent out Porygon-Z!
The foe's Porygon-Z's Download activates!
The foe's Porygon-Z's Attack rose!
Start of turn 6
Charizard used Fire Blast!
The foe's Porygon-Z lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Porygon-Z fainted!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
yerMOM sent out Moltres!
The foe's Moltres is exerting its Pressure!
Start of turn 7
Charizard used Fire Blast!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Moltres lost 77% of its health!
The foe's Moltres used Substitute!
The foe's Moltres hasn't enough energy left!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
The foe's Moltres restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Start of turn 8
Charizard used Fire Blast!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Moltres lost 28% of its health!
The foe's Moltres fainted!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
yerMOM: charizard is ru?
Testing Grandpa: si
yerMOM sent out Venomoth!
yerMOM: damn
Testing Grandpa: when the tiers updated
Start of turn 9
Charizard used Fire Blast!
It's super effective!
The foe's Venomoth lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Venomoth fainted!
The sunlight is strong!
Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!
yerMOM sent out Sceptile!
Testing Grandpa: hes so stronth
yerMOM: yeah i noticed
Start of turn 10
Testing Grandpa called Charizard back!
Testing Grandpa sent out Uxie!
The foe's Sceptile used Acrobatics!
The foe's Sceptile's Flight Gem raised Acrobatics's power!
Uxie lost 76 HP! (21% of its health)
The sunlight faded!
Testing Grandpa: lol
Start of turn 11
The foe's Sceptile used Acrobatics!
Uxie lost 21 HP! (5% of its health)
Uxie fainted!
Testing Grandpa sent out Honchkrow!
Start of turn 12
The foe's Sceptile used Leaf Blade!
It's not very effective...
Honchkrow lost 92 HP! (26% of its health)
Honchkrow used Substitute!
Honchkrow made a substitute!
Start of turn 13
The foe's Sceptile used Acrobatics!
Honchkrow's substitute faded!
Honchkrow used Brave Bird!
It's super effective!
Way too strong for RU imo
Edit: @Texas Cloverleaf based on my calculations Charizard 3HKOs Mantine with Solar Power Boosted Fire Blast in sun after Stealth Rock. (Probs 2hko after 2 switch ins but I didn't check). So after a bit of prior damage even Mantine will fall to Charizard and his reign of terror will continue.