Sun of a Gun

[Jimmyftw]

=== [ubers] Sun of a Gun ===

Update: Peaked #1 in the early pokebankubersbeta ladder! Not that it means anything but it is my first time peaking any ladder. :)

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Hi all, I'm Jimmy. I'm a Uber player on Pokemon showdown. Since Pokemon X and Y are coming out soon, I feel this is a good time to retire my most successful and the only team that I have as it will become obsolete soon. This team has reach a rating of 2100+ on Pokemon Showdown under the alts Jimmyftw and Jimmyftw2.

Here are some replays to give you a general idea of the team:

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-53573628 vs GSP99
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-51224435 vs hyw
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-54141382 vs Sweep
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-54644097 vs Megaman Zero
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-53977392 vs manetbo
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-51495370 vs Keanu Reeves
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-54673588 vs Evuelf

Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Overheat
- Dragon Tail

First up is Groudon, the physical wall of this team. Stealth Rock is the mandatory hazard stripping off 50% of the opposing Ho-oh as well as taking 25% off Rayquaza, Shaymin-S, and Lugia. Dragon Tail is the move I like to spam after SR is set up. The thing is, Dragon Tail creates momentum by hitting Groudon's common switch in's and racking up hazard damages. Dragon Tail and SR works amazing together as it puts a lot of pressure on the opponent in term of making a decision to switch or not to switch. EQ is for stab and hitting Dialga for good damage. Overheat is a nice more here, as it OHKO Ferrothorn who would otherwise be annoying. It also takes care of Forretress and Skarmory. I used to have Fire Blast here, but I think Overheat is better since most team carry only one of Forretress, Ferrothorn and Skarmory.

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 224 HP / 176 Atk / 80 SDef / 28 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Substitute
- Roost

With SR off the field, Ho-oh is a beast, not doubt about it. Not even Kyogre likes switching into Brave Bird and oftentimes, Ho-oh will be behind a sub when Kyogre switches in. Substitute eases prediction greatly and allows you to chose the right move for the switch in's. Ho-oh's sub is also durable enough to withstand Shaymin-S and Giratina's attacks among others. Roost is helpful for shufflers as well as recover off SR and general recovery. Sacred Fire is a very strong move under sun, however, one needs to play smartly for 8 pps go by fast. Ho-oh is my answer to CM Arceus that are not electric or rock type. Water Arceus is not a problem under sun. Electric and rock variety are deal with by Groudon, while Ho-oh resists Groudon's grass weakness and takes ice beams for it. They do share a water weakness, however, this is mitigated by sun. Ho-oh is a semi-reliable special wall with SR up and nearly unbreakable wall with SR gone, coming in on opposing scarf Palkia, Darkrai and Shaymin-S, to name a few. That said, it is best for SR to be gone, which I will explain later.

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Surf
- Thunder
- Fire Blast

Every team needs an answer to Kyogre and will appreciate a scarfer. Scarf Palkia hits two birds with one stone. Spacial Rend is choose over DM because being at -2 mean the opponent can come it and set up and with the dangerous set-up sweepers running amok in Uber, DM is not a good move for this team. Thunder is to hit Kyogre, however locking into Thunder does run Palkia into trouble with the Kyogre/Ferrothorn/Giratina(a/o) core. Palkia also cannot risk to predict against Kyogre early on since full health Spec Water Sprout does a lot of damage even to Palkia. Palkia's dragon weakness is covered by Forretress while Palkia resist Forretress's fire weakness. Palkia also resist Ho-oh's and Groudon's water weakness which is weaken still be sun. Fire Blast under sun does a lot of damage and not a bad move to lock into late game with sun up. While surf don't see much use due to being a sun team, if the opponent manage to win the weather war (rain), rain-boosted surf is pretty handy.

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Pain Split

I mentioned before how vital it is for SR to be gone. In the Uber tier, this is very hard to do due to the bulky spinblockers: the Giratinas and Ghostceus. Forretress is also this team sleep fodder so this is made even harder. However with Forretress's resistance and synergy, it can more often than not pull it weight in battle. Toxic is a great move on Forretress, as not only does it cripple Giratina-O and Ghostceus but also put Mewtwo and Ekiller on a timer. Forretress is this team's back up answer to Ekiller as once poison, mind game is played to bring opposing Ekiller down with minimum effort. Mind game being switching between Arceus and Giratina-o to take Shadow Claw and Espeed respectively. Groudon can also counter Ekiller and along with Forretress and Ho-oh make up the defensive core of this team. Spinblockers are Forretress's enemy, so they need to be gone. Luckily, Ho-oh deals with Ghostceus and Giratina is handled by Giratina-O. Meanwhile opposing Giratina-O succumb to toxic damage due to lack of recovery. This paves the way for a spin. Forretress also hates sub user but it doesn't mind coming into Lugia since it is immune to toxic and can set up spike and rapid spin alway while not fearing phasing as it can just come right back in and due to phazing's negative priority set up more spike. Pain Split so Forretress can arguably be the best Ferrothorn counter.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 Atk / 232 SAtk / 28 Spd
Naughty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Giratina-O is what I like to called a "mid-game mini sweeper." It has great utility behind it's moves and pick off where Groudon left off with phazing and racking up hazard damage. Besides picking off weaken mons with Shadow Sneak, Dragon Tail is my go to spam move. DM is the power move, which I will use if the opponent Pokemon is at relatively high health. HP fire is for Forretress and Ferrothorn and is power up in sun. Giratina-O along with Ho-oh and Arceus comprise the offensive core of this team with offensive synergy. Giratina-O is also a shaky check to Kyogre once Palkia is gone. Giratina-O also resist Arceus's fighting weakness while it's ghost weakness is cover by Arceus. Gira's fear of Darkrai is taken care of by Ho-oh as it can take a +2 DP even with SR.

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- ExtremeSpeed
- Shadow Claw
- Recover

Last but not least, we have our late game sweeper, Ekiller. Standard set with emphasize on HP since Ray and opposing Arceus are not threats. 16 speed to outpace neutral 90's. Forgoing EQ for Recover means Dialga is a problem, but I have Groudon to take care of support varieties and Ho-oh deals respectable damage to it. Recover is more useful to this team, saving me a lot of time when the opposing player use brute force to take Arceus down. With max HP, Arceus is pretty good with recover. Ekiller completely mess Deoxy-S up as a Shadow Claw follow by Espeed means Deo-S did nothing (most of them will taunted for fear of SD). This is good since teams that rely solely on Deo-S for hazard won't be getting any down which makes Ho-oh that much more threatening.

Recover Explanation: I feel that recover is the best 4th move for Ekiller since it completely neutralizes some of it checks. For example, Genesect is now setup fodder, as Arceus can just recover off an Explosion attempt. Ferrothorn cannot wear it down as easily with Leech Seed. If Arceus is last mon standing, then Groudon, Giratina, and Giratina-o are no longer answer. Dialga is usually use as a support mon so it will likely take significant damage to the point where a boosted Espeed can take it down. Kabutop has a very low chance to OHKO Arceus with Low Kick after SR while it is 2HKO back with +2 Espeed. This leaves Forretress, Skarmory and Omastar in the rain as the only surefire check to this set. Omastar is reliant on rain, while Forretress and Skarmory are playing against a sun team where 4/6 members carry a fire move.



Importable:

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=== [ubers] Ubers Team ===

Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Overheat
- Dragon Tail

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 224 HP / 176 Atk / 80 SDef / 28 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Substitute
- Roost

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Surf
- Thunder
- Fire Blast

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Pain Split

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 Atk / 232 SAtk / 28 Spd
Naughty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- ExtremeSpeed
- Shadow Claw
- Recover

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I am open for suggestions in improving this team. :)

 

[Jimmyftw]

Threat list:

Mewtwo: I have no safe switch in so someone is going down. However, I do have some speed namely Scarf Palkia and the double priority provide by Gira and Arceus. But if Mewtwo CM up, Palkia is no longer reliable to revenge it.

Latios/Latias: same as for Mewtwo, these have to be played around. Psyshock is a cheap move hitting Ho-oh hard.

Spec Kyogre: It does big amount of damage even to Palkia when Kyogre is at full health. Thus, hazard must be lay to reduce WS power.

Non-Choice Palkia: In rain, Ho-oh cannot take a Surf while Arceus cannot set up on Palkia with Rain boosted, Lustrous Orb boosted stab Surf. Hydro Pump is even more deadly. My only chance is for scarf Palkia to be well to revenge it.

 

[Donkey]

u forgot a palkia check

 

[fleurdyleurse]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sun-of-a-gun-an-offensive-sun-team.3488812/ lol did you copy my thread name?

 

[Chicharino]

Hi Jimmy,

Well first of all, I'd like to say, it's an alright team, we vsed two times together (both in one night, we were one - one).

First thing I noticed was, that your speed creep on both Gira and Ho Oh is really low. I'd increase both of their speed creep (especially for Ho Oh for opposing Groudon). And Same with Gira. As you use Subs on Ho Oh, and Your GIra is offensive, and Base 90s are really common in Ubers, I'd increase the creep.

Despite what people say, I find Recover Ceus EK all right, it works on this team, and has definitely helped you against many other players. While it is true that you don't carry a Palkia counter, most Palkias arent scarfed, so you're deals with it.

Apart from your own Ho Oh and Groudon (Which doensnt even carry SE :P) Ho Oh is a really big threat. I remember in our match, you couldn't get past my Ho Oh, and since you barely speed creep, your Ho Oh will fail to beat out other Ho Ohs (as was the case in both our battles, My ho Oh beats yours every time). And it seems HYWs did as well, but that was Banded, so nbd.

BTW I'd try out Whirlwind over Subs over Ho Oh, but thats compeltey up to you (it helps you beat out Sub Mons). I was just looking at the match against Reeves, and that Gliscor lol.

But other wise the only thing i can really suggest is more speed creep on Ho Oh and Gira-O. :). I'll edit this later once I have time!

 

[Jimmyftw]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sun-of-a-gun-an-offensive-sun-team.3488812/ lol did you copy my thread name?

Hey comicdonutsummer, sorry that we got the same team names. I can assure you this is a coincidence as I only play Uber and hardly ever looked at the OU RMTs. Nice pun though, I think we both agree ;)

Hi Jimmy,

Well first of all, I'd like to say, it's an alright team, we vsed two times together (both in one night, we were one - one).

First thing I noticed was, that your speed creep on both Gira and Ho Oh is really low. I'd increase both of their speed creep (especially for Ho Oh for opposing Groudon). And Same with Gira. As you use Subs on Ho Oh, and Your GIra is offensive, and Base 90s are really common in Ubers, I'd increase the creep.

Despite what people say, I find Recover Ceus EK all right, it works on this team, and has definitely helped you against many other players. While it is true that you don't carry a Palkia counter, most Palkias arent scarfed, so you're deals with it.

Apart from your own Ho Oh and Groudon (Which doensnt even carry SE :P) Ho Oh is a really big threat. I remember in our match, you couldn't get past my Ho Oh, and since you barely speed creep, your Ho Oh will fail to beat out other Ho Ohs (as was the case in both our battles, My ho Oh beats yours every time). And it seems HYWs did as well, but that was Banded, so nbd.

BTW I'd try out Whirlwind over Subs over Ho Oh, but thats compeltey up to you (it helps you beat out Sub Mons). I was just looking at the match against Reeves, and that Gliscor lol.

But other wise the only thing i can really suggest is more speed creep on Ho Oh and Gira-O. :). I'll edit this later once I have time!

Hey Chicharino, thanks for the rate. I definitely agree with the speed creep, and I feel whoever wants to try or use this team should creep up the speed to whatever is relevant. The reason the speed creep is so low is because I don't know what speed creep is relevant and at which point I should stop creeping. For example, on Ho-oh, (I haven't done any calculation), how high am I allow to speed creep until say, Ho-oh doesn't survive a +2 DP from Darkrai after SR or risk being 2HKO by Ghostceus after SR. Same goes with Groudon and Giratina-o, how far can I speed creep until they get OHKO instead of 2HKO or 2HKO instead of 3HKO by such and such. And how far until they miss out on OHKO's and 2HKO's on such and such. These are calculations that I have not done, but I agree with you that you can increase you chances of winning dramatically if you do.

Thank for agreeing with me with Recover Ekiller! One of the main goals of this team if for Arceus teammates to knock out Forretress/Ferrothorn/Skarmory, paving a way for Arceus to sweep. Most team carry only one of the three mentioned, if any at all, so with this team fire moves will constantly threaten them. Also, Dialga must be weaken to ~30-40 which is about one EQ from Groudon. Then last mon Recover Arceus can just SD and Recover off damage and sweep whole teams. Groudon and both Gira forms can't do nothing against last mon Recover Ekiller. This is the main gameplan, the other revolves around Ho-oh.

Regarding Palkia, I don't believe Palkia is threatening enough so that every team needs a counter to it. Unlike Kyogre who shreds team that do not pack a counter for it apart, Palkia do not possess the raw power, I feel. Nevertheless, it is still a major threat. Also, I don't agree that most Palkias are not scarfed, because in my experience the most common Palkia set is scarf. The way I play against scarf Palkia is send in Forry to spin and then Ho-oh to wall. If it is raining, then I send in Groudon then Ho-oh. Against non-scarfed Palkia, it's again Groudon then Ho-oh. Arceus also sets up on Palkias and double priority (ES and SS) kills it as well. I utilize my team synergy to find out if it is scarfed or not, but most time if the opponent have Palkia and there are no other mon that are likely to be scarf then it is very likely Palkia is scarfed so I just send in Forry.

Against Darkrai, I just fodder something to sleep either Forry or Gira most of the time. However, opposing Darkrais are deadweight most of the time, so fair trade. Lead Darkrai is taken out by Ho-oh once sleep clause activates.

Ho-oh is a threat I agree. IMO Ho-oh is the best Pokemon in the game if SR is off the field. So I have to set down my SR to beat it. I use to carry SE on Groudon but I feel the OHKO on Ferrothorn is so sweet and I don't like inaccurate moves accuracy lower than 85.

Also great fun matches against you ;)

 

[Chicharino]

Haha yeah, next time I'll be prepared! But yeah, imo, speed creep on Gira-O is a must, i guess Ho Oh can live without it I guess, but taking out 20 HP EVs from Ho Oh wont make a large differnce (as it is only 5 HP, as that is restored by LO), and with Gira, just take 8-12 from both attacking stats, imo its worth it. 24 is generally a good speed creep from experience. And yeah I agree with Ho Oh as the best mon as well. Hence my Profile ;).

Overall, the team is definitely a bit unorthodox but it works surprising well (even though half the time It's just E Killer saving you xDD).

A lot of the mons on this team serve a specific function, and removing one would cause you to change a few other mons :).

BTW. I do have one idea only,
You could change Foretress to Xatu (which has a surprisingly easy time setting up screens, and trust me, those screens are really good, plus it can carry Heat Wave to deal w/ferros and such ;) , Plus, i can also see this team having problem with Lugias, what do you do against those?
Xatu switches in to Lugias toxic,, and bounces it right back, ive done it a billion of times lol. And yaeh, I raelly see you having a hard time dealing with Lugia on this team tbh.
Now since you get rid of Foret, that would allow you to add another mon in stead of Gira, as you dont need Gira's Spin Block as much nymore.

You could try either;
Sp. Def Dialga with (Lefties/Lum) w/ Rocks + Fblast +Dpulse + Twave/Roar (this would free up a spot on Groudon for SE or Soemthing else). Although this Dialga is better in Rain, but meh.
Another Idear is change Gira to Genesect (Scarf) and change Palkia to Specs, this would give your team some really great fire power and a bit of flexibilty with UTurn.
And Trust me when i say, Xatu gets the job done. and dont even get me started on those screens, Xatu deals with lower level players so well. and a bit with higher level player as well. Plus, This way, your opponent wont mindlessly through around DVoids, and this will allow you to not have to fodder soemthing.
Albeit if you do this, Dialga with Rocks will be problamatic, as will Ghostceus's and Troll Breaker Exca, but hey, can't cover all the angles right? lol

If you do decide to Go Xatu, it will allow you to get rid of OverHeat on Groudon for TWave, which i feel would work wonders on this team . Up to you tho bro

And yeah man, look forward to future matches :)

 

[Jimmyftw]

Haha yeah, next time I'll be prepared! But yeah, imo, speed creep on Gira-O is a must, i guess Ho Oh can live without it I guess, but taking out 20 HP EVs from Ho Oh wont make a large differnce (as it is only 5 HP, as that is restored by LO), and with Gira, just take 8-12 from both attacking stats, imo its worth it. 24 is generally a good speed creep from experience. And yeah I agree with Ho Oh as the best mon as well. Hence my Profile ;).

Overall, the team is definitely a bit unorthodox but it works surprising well (even though half the time It's just E Killer saving you xDD).

A lot of the mons on this team serve a specific function, and removing one would cause you to change a few other mons :).

BTW. I do have one idea only,
You could change Foretress to Xatu (which has a surprisingly easy time setting up screens, and trust me, those screens are really good, plus it can carry Heat Wave to deal w/ferros and such ;) , Plus, i can also see this team having problem with Lugias, what do you do against those?
Xatu switches in to Lugias toxic,, and bounces it right back, ive done it a billion of times lol. And yaeh, I raelly see you having a hard time dealing with Lugia on this team tbh.
Now since you get rid of Foret, that would allow you to add another mon in stead of Gira, as you dont need Gira's Spin Block as much nymore.

You could try either;
Sp. Def Dialga with (Lefties/Lum) w/ Rocks + Fblast +Dpulse + Twave/Roar (this would free up a spot on Groudon for SE or Soemthing else). Although this Dialga is better in Rain, but meh.
Another Idear is change Gira to Genesect (Scarf) and change Palkia to Specs, this would give your team some really great fire power and a bit of flexibilty with UTurn.
And Trust me when i say, Xatu gets the job done. and dont even get me started on those screens, Xatu deals with lower level players so well. and a bit with higher level player as well. Plus, This way, your opponent wont mindlessly through around DVoids, and this will allow you to not have to fodder soemthing.
Albeit if you do this, Dialga with Rocks will be problamatic, as will Ghostceus's and Troll Breaker Exca, but hey, can't cover all the angles right? lol

If you do decide to Go Xatu, it will allow you to get rid of OverHeat on Groudon for TWave, which i feel would work wonders on this team . Up to you tho bro

And yeah man, look forward to future matches :)

Hey thanks for the rate. As you suggested I upped the speed on Groudon, Ho-oh and Giratina to 28. This should outcreep all the creepers on the ladder. ;)

Xatu is an excellent suggestion and I have though about using it before since I hated facing dual screen Xatu, it is so effective but playing against it is so annoying lol. So yeah, I agree that if I go the Xatu way I can free up a teamslot for a powerhouse like Latios or as you mentioned, Scarf Gene then change Palkia to Spec. I will definitely try this out!

Regarding Lugia, it really is a free Rapid Spin for Forry, however if Forry is down (or asleep) Lugia is a big problem. Btw bouncing back Toxic into Lugia with Xatu sounds really fun ;)

 

[ogasian]

Hey Jimmy, nice tean you have. Even though I, like many others, disagree with Recover on E-Killer, it seems to be working for you so I won't touch that. You do; however, seem weak to Stall, in particular defensive Giratina-O and Giratina-A. To remedy this, I would change Ho-Oh to a Life Orb Sub Roost variant or, if you are hipster, a Banded one. This allows you to break the Gira formes much more easily. I like band Ho-Oh, since it gives you a Darkrai check too.

Ho-Oh@Choice Band
Trait: Regenerator
Adamant 252 attack/252 speed/4 hp

Brave Bird/Sacred Fire/Sleep Talk/Earthquake

A very simple spread and fix. A bit late with XY and all, but I don't think the ladder is goin up until at least a few weeks. Glhf!

 

[Jimmyftw]

Hey Jimmy, nice tean you have. Even though I, like many others, disagree with Recover on E-Killer, it seems to be working for you so I won't touch that. You do; however, seem weak to Stall, in particular defensive Giratina-O and Giratina-A. To remedy this, I would change Ho-Oh to a Life Orb Sub Roost variant or, if you are hipster, a Banded one. This allows you to break the Gira formes much more easily. I like band Ho-Oh, since it gives you a Darkrai check too.

Ho-Oh@Choice Band
Trait: Regenerator
Adamant 252 attack/252 speed/4 hp

Brave Bird/Sacred Fire/Sleep Talk/Earthquake

A very simple spread and fix. A bit late with XY and all, but I don't think the ladder is goin up until at least a few weeks. Glhf!

Hi, ogasian aka Facepalm. Sorry bout that haxy match between you and me. You totally had the upper hand before I haxed you. XD

Anyways, you're right about me being weak to stall. Your Giratina-A in particular, lol, phazes me to no end. I have used Banded Ho-oh before and gotten mixed result, I will probably use it in the gen 6 metagame. But both Sub-roost and banded have their advantages and drawbacks.

P.s. I sometimes play Pokemon Showdown on my phone so I can't answer your comments when battling.