Just to clear everything up I never said we should be banning people and said that we need to implement new foot marks banning people for voicing different opinions is really slimy shit and should never be allowed or condoned.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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If you are a qualified player and can get reqs for a suspect test, then they can vote however they want. Dont be mad only a minority of anti-tera players can get reqs.
The last time (that I was aware of) where something like this was implemented was the Gen 6 Ubers Shadow Tag Suspect, where voters were required to give a reason for their vote (due to reqs being easy to get), which ended up with Chaos (the owner) overruling the suspect test.
Defo don't need this sort of situation to occur again so we just implement more requirements for the privilege to vote especially in suspect tests like these
I guess the best solution would be to make reqs harder to get? I'm not sure how that would work but anyone who qualifies should be able to vote, regardless of what the "majority" among forum posters are.
I mean this in the absolute least offensive way possible, given that I am pro-tera and also far too garbage to get reqs, but it really does kinda lend credence to the idea that thinking Tera doesn't offer anything to the tier might -- at least partially -- be a skill issue.
That certainly doesn't mean it's all upside, or that we wouldn't be better off with Tera Preview, but it does feel like pretty much every thread on the subject has been far more anti-tera than the subsequent vote.
For what I see, more requirements would lead into possible pro ban voters getting filtered, keep in mind that a lot of anti tera players don't feel too comfortable playing in this meta so it can be harder for them to get reqs compared with a pro-neutral towards tera player.
Here we go again. Tera remained unrestricted by such a small margin that this is a stupid statement, especially considering the survey results among qualified players. Of course if that small margin went the other way it would've been restricted rather than banned but that still shows that a large amount of people thought it was actionable enough that it needed some restriction. (not even bringing up how the meta has changed since then, as pretty much everything that is unquestionably broken w/o tera has been banned by now and we've gotten onto banning Volc and likely suspecting Gambit.) Reqs or no reqs, it seems like at least 1/4 of the pro-Tera crowd justified it by saying "it's fun" or using frankly idiotic generational gimmick/"without tera this will just be a slugfest like late CT SS" arguments. The reqs system is a reasonable one, and it's better than the alternatives, but people who get them can still vote in ways where they knowingly vote for something that they know is uncompetitive but wish to continue using.
This really should not be about a majority of Anti-Tera players, We just need to make the process more difficult to ensure that we get people actually invested in the tier to come together and remove an aspect that harms their tier.
The requirement to vote in NDOU suspect tests is now "fully fluent in Klingon." No, wait, it's "Has never voted in a suspect test before." No, wait, it's "Listed Jedi as their religion in their nation's last census." No, wait, it's "Swore on the True Cross that they would vote to ban/retain mechanic I do/don't like." No, wait, it's "Can sing Modern Major General in C-minor."
What I suspect you actually support, but don't want to say, is "Must be an already active Smogon forum member." However, Smogon is an English language forum, so this has the side effect of discriminating against people who speak other languages, and have their own communities. One of those communities was rallied and mobilized for the recent NDOU suspect test - this is not some grievous problem that requires a fix, it's just something that will happen from time to time.
The voters were clearly skilled players, or they wouldn't have obtained the voting reqs, so it's very likely (though obviously not provable) that they really were regular players of NDOU on Showdown. They absolutely deserve to have a vote in how that tier is run.
but pex is pex, is a pokemon designed for scald: come in, absorb the hit, scald on the switch, maybe u get a burn, switch out + gets back health with regenerator, immense bulk and very good typing, absorbs toxic cleans tspikes
imagine pex without regenerator: suddently rather than spam scald half of the times u are supposed to click recover; so the issue isn't scald, is scald on a very very good mon
mola and bros also has regenerator, losing a turn for healing rather than click scald makes a huge difference in a game
because that's how game freaks designed scald, less power for a chance to burn
yes is weird being forced to absorb a burn with a water pokemon (or grass or dragon) rather than a fire one, game freak game freaking
Sounds like you just want to limit voters to people who are absurdly high on the ladder or have tournament success.
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
So, if I am reading this right, you want the vote to be limited such that people who, lets face it, agree with your opinion on Tera, are the ones who can vote, even if it doesnt sound that way?
Because, "people actually invested in the tier... ...remove an aspect that harms their tier" sounds an awful lot like youre making that choice for them, that tera by and large harms the tier, and that the people who didnt vote ban tera dont care about the tier.
Is this correct, because if so then holy shit why even vote? If its that cut and fuckin dry then it should be quickbanned, really.
Agree, from playing the tier during suspect period it should have been. Insanely uncompetitive and broken (quite similar to how it is here) but I assume policy prevents quickbanning this type of mechanic.
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Yknow, this wasnt what I meant, but fair enough. How is it that broken? Is there one or two mons that just haul ass with it and steal the show, making counterplay outside of them nigh impossible without sacrificing a team slot to some ZU schlock, or is it broken in the sense that you absolutely must use it to win, and as such it veils the real threat(s) of the meta?
Im genuinely curious since NDOU is quite different, having deoxys be UUBL last i heard for a start. Did they bother cutting Toxic like GF had done with the Home mons?
Qualified players making a vote you don’t agree with is considered spamming now? People voting in the suspect test have won many games with few losses and thus are completely qualified to vote however they feel right for the meta? If you care so much about this then you should go meet the requirements to vote in the suspect. I’m anti-Tera as well and I can still see why this is wrong. Honestly how rude
Natdex is quite different, IMO the "broken" aspect there is accentuated by higher power level and more threats to deal with. Pult is impossible to cover in a game consistently, send in Gambit and get Tera Blast Fighting'd and lose on the spot is an entirely reasonable timeline but so is sending in anything else and dying to Z Ghost. Speaking of Gambit it's also insane, it does the same things it does in SV but with Knock and Pursuit access. You also have to cover for offensive threats like Mega Lopunny and Mega Diancie, the strain to not just get run over by certain things on preview is genuinely insane. I think Tera staying in the tier will result in an enormous number of mons getting banned over time just due to the pressure of dealing with them. Valiant, Bax, Dragonite, Zamazenta, etc. all do the same things as in this tier as well.
It was sarcasm.
By anti-tera player I mean players who want it fully-banned. There is a big difference from people wanting tera restricted or fully banned.
Many people like myself wanted to keep tera but implement some kind of change so I thought tera preview would be a good middle ground. Tera preview could be an adequate compromise pertaining the tera debate. I have slowly veered away from this because Ive realized it wouldnt solve problems between the two sides.
I also realized that this was advocating for a group of people who don't even like the tier or dont play gen 9 because of tera. Since then I have changed my mindset to keeping tera how it is.
If players dont like tera or find it unenjoyable ,then they’re not even playing the tier because of it, so why should I care about them. I personally enjoy gen 9 OU and terastillization is a big part of that. If people dont like tera they can go play past gens.
NatDex is simply too big to prepare for everything, and terastalization means that there's even more things to prepare for. In OU, being 6-0'd on team preview is either a sign that your team building sucks or there is some grotesquely overpowered monstrosity in the tier, but in NatDex, even the best teams have threats they simply cannot handle.
could everyone please stop talking about the results of a suspect in a different meta before i have to break out the soyjaks
This would be a completely correct post if it didn't take what happened to ND out of context the suspect was flooded with burners and people with an agenda to keep tera in the tier,If anything what I proposed should be the standard for suspect tests of that magnitude
Eh, it's the most interesting (and OU-relevant) thing to happen in weeks. Having more information on how voting trends go is definitely a reason to start with Tera Preview here: if the Smogon-facing NDOU community's opinion on Tera can't pass a full ban, there is zero chance that regular OU will support it.
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Yeah.
You have an agenda to keep tera out of the tier, and they have one to keep it in. Furthermore, is it provably burners or was it people who dont typically communicate on an english forum? Perhaps people who dont talk on the forum wanted their voice to be heard, and their voice was that tera shouldnt be banned.
Furthermore, a suspect is a suspect. We didn't give Dynamax the "luxury" of more stringent requirements, so why should we give tera those?
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