There's so much wrong with this line of thinking idk where to start. I guess to start, BM Ursalana doesn't need an immunity to setup, it has very good bulk. The only things in OU with more raw physical bulk than BM are Great Tusk, Ting Lu, and Garganacl. Balloon has never been serviceable counterplay to anything, but especially against something that can pop your balloon with a 140 BP stab attack. Furthermore both of those mons would actually struggle if they switched into Ursalana if it clicked CM, even with their balloons intact. Balloon is genuinely good on Gholdengo for a number of reasons, and I'm sure it has it's place on Heatran on certain teams (Heatran is pretty bad in this meta though), but the idea that it really does anything besides saving you a single turn against BM is silly.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
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How is it possible to put these two sentences almost next to each other and not see the irony in "I should be allowed to use my favourites and let them , but YOU shouldn't." disregarding everything else wrong with this.
it takes less time to fill out the survey than it does for you to write to this conglomeration of word vomit nonsense bruh
All I know is a Tera is very very valuable. Teraing at the right time COMPLETELY makes or breaks a game - that tournament game I played the other night, my first game I played pretty well for most of it but made a really poor Tera choice and it cost me the game. Gambit, ogerpon, both Pokémon that make Teraing any other Pokémon on the team relatively unwise, and saving your Tera as long as you can is so important
Dude you literally complained about smogon’s system like 3 days ago
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Found the proof
Good to see you calling out your own bad faith takes now I guess lol
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It's always you motherfuckers that don't pay attention at all that are like "the council did this, the council did that". Dude, if a Pokémon has a high enough score on the COMMUNITY SURVEY THAT THE PUBLIC VOTES ON, only then will the council look into it - if you wanna play with your favourite mons that's fine, but that doesn't mean your favourite mons are balanced or competitive. You are on a website which is aiming to be a balanced meta game, which means banning mons that are broken. Go play BSS if you're that upset that your favourite Pokémon are banned.
yeah, nothing worse than someone complaining about the system while not participating in it
the fact that you're this assmad over a ban in a game that isn't even officially supported makes you more of a loser than anyone else on this thread. how have you been here since 2013 but you're acting like you were born in 2017? go play cartridge and brim with joy distilled from detachment
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I go to work and play D&D only to come back and find a quickban.
Not shocked or disappointed, just a lot to happen so soon lol. Not much to say but Hearthflame probably deserved it and people who bitch about the system they're not taking part in need to stop.
Not shocked or disappointed, just a lot to happen so soon lol. Not much to say but Hearthflame probably deserved it and people who bitch about the system they're not taking part in need to stop.
Oh, so he's a Doofenshrmitz invention now. Then get Perry the Platypus in here if you want to win smh.
Personally I've been having fun with the tier at the moment, the introduction of a lot of new tools in the metagame makes for a pretty refreshing experience in my opinion. I think someone earlier in the thread asked what under-the-radar mons have people been trying out, and while I've been messing around with rain teams, there's been one mon in particular that's been a blast to use:
Poliwrath @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Steel/Fighting/Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Liquidation
- Knock Off/Earthquake
- Belly Drum
Poliwrath's a pretty cool mon on rain teams. Probably not very good, but nonetheless still cool. The appeal of Poliwrath on rain teams lies in its ability to compress the roles of a high risk, high reward rain wallbreaker and cleaner in addition to serving as a decent check against specific threats in the meta, most prominently Kingambit. On paper, Poliwrath's primary goal is to find an opportunity to set up Belly Drum and lay waste to the opposing team. In practice, finding this opportunity can be rather difficult, as factors that can impede Poliwrath's sweep first need to be eliminated, in which case a savvy opponent can simply endeavor to preserve these answers. Under the right circumstances, however, a Belly Drum Poliwrath can feel downright oppressive.
There are two general opportunities for Poliwrath to set up a Belly Drum: against particularly passive mons that can't do much to prevent Poliwrath from setting up (e.g. Ting-Lu lacking Whirlwind, Corviknight lacking Brave Bird) or against a mon that Poliwrath can check once switched in (e.g. Kingambit, Heatran). Mons that can pivot to give Poliwrath a potentially free switch in naturally serve as strong partners as a result. While 90/95/90 on the defensive side isn't exactly impressive, Poliwrath's base bulk in conjunction with its pretty useful Water/Fighting typing gives it a decently useful defensive profile. Even in matches where setting up a Belly Drum just isn't feasible, Poliwrath is far from being deadweight due to its useable bulk making it a serviceable switch-in against several mons in the tier capable of firing off respectably powerful Close Combats and rain-boosted Liquidates.
With all of this in mind, Poliwrath unfortunately has quite a few flaws that make it rather lackluster. For starters, Poliwrath is pretty slow. A base 70 spd leaves a lot to be desired, and even with Swift Swim Poliwrath can find itself getting outsped and revenge-killed by speedsters such as Booster Energy Iron Valiant or Choice Scarf Meowscarada, an issue that fellow physical rain abuser Floatzel does not have to deal with. As a rain breaker and sweeper, Poliwrath is decidedly more dependent on rain being up than other rain abusers, as it effectively only has one shot to get work done after setting up Belly Drum. Whereas a mon such as Floatzel or Basculegion-M can come in when there's only two turns of rain left, click Wave Crash and delete something, then switch out to wallbreak and clean in the late game, Poliwrath's "All or nothing" playstyle just doesn't allow for this, as Liquidate and Close Combat are only decently powerful rather than absolutely destructive. On that note, when compared to its contemporaries, Poliwrath just lacks immediate power to be threatening without Belly Drum, making it much more telegraphed and restricted to use as a result. There are also several methods a player might utilize to halt a Poliwrath sweep in its tracks; changing the weather via Alolan Ninetails or Torkoal, revenge killing with strong priority such as Rillaboom's Grassy Glide, keeping an Unaware mon alive, and using defensive tera are all effective ways to stop Poliwrath's potentially dangerous momentum.
So why even use Poliwrath? What does it offer compared to its fellow rain abusers? Perhaps most notably, its secondary STAB in Close Combat allows it to bypass certain mons that would halt other physical rain abusers, specifically defensive mons using tera Water. It also allows Poliwrath to smack around the likes of Ogerpon -Wellspring, something that neither Floatzel nor Basculegion-M can do all that well. Poliwrath's offensive prowess also typically does not necessitate the use of tera to successfully wallbreak. Poliwrath's aformentioned defensive profile also generally gives it a lot more survivability, being able to switch in against quite a few notable mons in the tier, something that a mon like Floatzel can't do without a lot of risk. Being able to tank Kingambit's Sucker Punch even after a Belly Drum use, for instance, is pretty nice.
Set details are mostly self-explanatory. Tera Steel lets it try to dance around things like Scarf Meowscarada, Booster Energy Iron Valiant, and Alolan Ninetales trying to revenge kill it, and generally makes it the preferred tera. Tera Fighting gives Poliwrath a bit more punch against a weakened Dondozo, but probably isn't worth giving up the defensive applications of tera Steel. Tera Ground can be used to thrash Toxapex, giving a guaranteed OHKO with +6 Earthquake, so it can be used if your matchup against Toxapex is particularly weak. Otherwise, Knock Off gives Poliwrath added utility in matchups where setting up Belly Drum isn't feasible.
So yeah, Poliwrath is a very high risk, high reward rain abuser that I've been loving to use recently. While it's far from reliable and is therefore on the fringe of viability in the metagame, it's still been plenty of fun to utilize.
Poliwrath @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Steel/Fighting/Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Liquidation
- Knock Off/Earthquake
- Belly Drum
Poliwrath's a pretty cool mon on rain teams. Probably not very good, but nonetheless still cool. The appeal of Poliwrath on rain teams lies in its ability to compress the roles of a high risk, high reward rain wallbreaker and cleaner in addition to serving as a decent check against specific threats in the meta, most prominently Kingambit. On paper, Poliwrath's primary goal is to find an opportunity to set up Belly Drum and lay waste to the opposing team. In practice, finding this opportunity can be rather difficult, as factors that can impede Poliwrath's sweep first need to be eliminated, in which case a savvy opponent can simply endeavor to preserve these answers. Under the right circumstances, however, a Belly Drum Poliwrath can feel downright oppressive.
There are two general opportunities for Poliwrath to set up a Belly Drum: against particularly passive mons that can't do much to prevent Poliwrath from setting up (e.g. Ting-Lu lacking Whirlwind, Corviknight lacking Brave Bird) or against a mon that Poliwrath can check once switched in (e.g. Kingambit, Heatran). Mons that can pivot to give Poliwrath a potentially free switch in naturally serve as strong partners as a result. While 90/95/90 on the defensive side isn't exactly impressive, Poliwrath's base bulk in conjunction with its pretty useful Water/Fighting typing gives it a decently useful defensive profile. Even in matches where setting up a Belly Drum just isn't feasible, Poliwrath is far from being deadweight due to its useable bulk making it a serviceable switch-in against several mons in the tier capable of firing off respectably powerful Close Combats and rain-boosted Liquidates.
With all of this in mind, Poliwrath unfortunately has quite a few flaws that make it rather lackluster. For starters, Poliwrath is pretty slow. A base 70 spd leaves a lot to be desired, and even with Swift Swim Poliwrath can find itself getting outsped and revenge-killed by speedsters such as Booster Energy Iron Valiant or Choice Scarf Meowscarada, an issue that fellow physical rain abuser Floatzel does not have to deal with. As a rain breaker and sweeper, Poliwrath is decidedly more dependent on rain being up than other rain abusers, as it effectively only has one shot to get work done after setting up Belly Drum. Whereas a mon such as Floatzel or Basculegion-M can come in when there's only two turns of rain left, click Wave Crash and delete something, then switch out to wallbreak and clean in the late game, Poliwrath's "All or nothing" playstyle just doesn't allow for this, as Liquidate and Close Combat are only decently powerful rather than absolutely destructive. On that note, when compared to its contemporaries, Poliwrath just lacks immediate power to be threatening without Belly Drum, making it much more telegraphed and restricted to use as a result. There are also several methods a player might utilize to halt a Poliwrath sweep in its tracks; changing the weather via Alolan Ninetails or Torkoal, revenge killing with strong priority such as Rillaboom's Grassy Glide, keeping an Unaware mon alive, and using defensive tera are all effective ways to stop Poliwrath's potentially dangerous momentum.
So why even use Poliwrath? What does it offer compared to its fellow rain abusers? Perhaps most notably, its secondary STAB in Close Combat allows it to bypass certain mons that would halt other physical rain abusers, specifically defensive mons using tera Water. It also allows Poliwrath to smack around the likes of Ogerpon -Wellspring, something that neither Floatzel nor Basculegion-M can do all that well. Poliwrath's offensive prowess also typically does not necessitate the use of tera to successfully wallbreak. Poliwrath's aformentioned defensive profile also generally gives it a lot more survivability, being able to switch in against quite a few notable mons in the tier, something that a mon like Floatzel can't do without a lot of risk. Being able to tank Kingambit's Sucker Punch even after a Belly Drum use, for instance, is pretty nice.
Set details are mostly self-explanatory. Tera Steel lets it try to dance around things like Scarf Meowscarada, Booster Energy Iron Valiant, and Alolan Ninetales trying to revenge kill it, and generally makes it the preferred tera. Tera Fighting gives Poliwrath a bit more punch against a weakened Dondozo, but probably isn't worth giving up the defensive applications of tera Steel. Tera Ground can be used to thrash Toxapex, giving a guaranteed OHKO with +6 Earthquake, so it can be used if your matchup against Toxapex is particularly weak. Otherwise, Knock Off gives Poliwrath added utility in matchups where setting up Belly Drum isn't feasible.
So yeah, Poliwrath is a very high risk, high reward rain abuser that I've been loving to use recently. While it's far from reliable and is therefore on the fringe of viability in the metagame, it's still been plenty of fun to utilize.
We're talking Lando but let's talk Ting-Lu real quick. Man is UNEMPLOYED thanks to the Gliscor drop. Likely dropping to UU next Nov 1 unless something happens to Gliscor and that's crazy
Nah Ting-Lu is still aight from what I've faced. Its ridiculous bulk lets it emergency check virtually anything with Whirlwind and it has stronger MUs some key mons like Dragapult, which I think will let it retain a valuable niche in the meta and distinguish it from Gliscor. Gliscor is the better mon imo, but Ting-Lu can still put in some work. Also benefits immensely from some of the recent bans.
You know Lando has offensive sets. And it does things Gliscor can't right. Scor is amazing but let's stop trying to downplay Lando (people were doing this even when it was putting strong showings in tournaments so I dunno if this just comes from a weird desire people have for it to drop).
I dunno, Lando's obviously got big competition now but I don't think it'll fall off the face of the earth. It just might need to stick to scarf and more offensive sets like that since the main advantage it has left over Gliscor is that attack stat. Scor will always have to run toxorb and do its defensive utility stuff since that's what it does better than anything else, while Garfield can still have a lot of variety to its game.
Also intimidate cycling is still a great tool for dealing with all the nutty physical threats running around
Ting-Lu still has a lot going for it that Gliscor doesn't. For as good as Gliscor's bulk is, Ting-Lu's is actually absurd on both the physical and special side. Ground-Dark typing is probably worse overall, but it does mean it doesn't instantly die to any ice type attack and can even tank a few. I think Ting-Lu's most important benefit over Gliscor however is that it's a bulky hazard setter that can phaze. While Gliscor is better in most ways IMHO and does have Toxic to threaten mons with, the simple fact that Ting-Lu can make consistent chip progress by phasing out I think generally makes it a less passive prescence than Gliscor can be.
Gliscor literally does not "instantly die to any ice attack" that's like the whole thing. Pretty much anything, including the most viable ice move in the game, Tusk Ice Spinner, is a 2HKO or worse. I don't think anything with Toxic can be described as a "passive presence"
you're a moron. ogrepon literally 2hkos the entire metagame and is pretty damn fast to boot- there's literally, objectively zero defensive counterplay to it and the offense counterplay is fairly weak and inconsistent. you wanna play with ogrepon? go play ubers and stop bitching about shit you clearly have no understanding of.
How well is Garganacl doing in the meta rn? Out of the titans of preHOME/HOME it seems to be the one I've heard about/seen the least since DLC began
Lando, Ting Lu, and Gliscor all have their own merits which can be argued for
Lando has the highest attack stat by far, can output far more offensive pressure, and is a good pivot/scarf mon with uturn, eq, and intimidate
Ting Lu is the fattest bastard this side of stall, it can take more hits than both gliscor and lando, set hazards, and can force out set up sweepers with whirlwind, which gliscor can struggle with
Gliscor is bulky, has the most reliable recovery in poison heal, excellent knock absorber, can put decent pressure with toxic, very good utility in knock as well
Each has their own merits and to say one or the other outclasses each other is just false
Lando has the highest attack stat by far, can output far more offensive pressure, and is a good pivot/scarf mon with uturn, eq, and intimidate
Ting Lu is the fattest bastard this side of stall, it can take more hits than both gliscor and lando, set hazards, and can force out set up sweepers with whirlwind, which gliscor can struggle with
Gliscor is bulky, has the most reliable recovery in poison heal, excellent knock absorber, can put decent pressure with toxic, very good utility in knock as well
Each has their own merits and to say one or the other outclasses each other is just false
The arrival of Ogerpon is a bit annoying because it such a good encore user... but that's just one more. And they still dislike salt cure.
Honestly, at least from personal experience, Garg is still annoying. I just haven't seen much of it because new toy syndrome and also ladder is weird.
I didnt clarify well, but I more meant special ice moves, and honestly special attacks in general. Ting-Lu is insanely specially bulky while also being physically bulky while Gliscor, even with spdef investment, can't really keep up with the special attackers of OU.
When Lando-T falls UU, we officially call UU the new OU, call OU the new Ubers BL, and insert Lando-T into NFE.
It's slowly been happening with gengar, garchomp, and tyranitar.
Assuming Lando gets Defog back with DLC2, which is a decently educated guess to make, no chance it would stay UU for long (esp with new tools like Taunt and weird NP sets)
I hope it doesn't get Knock Off back in the second DLC. There are already enough Knock Off users, and we don't need any more as it would make the meta worse with how bad OU's Spikes problem is.
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