I will be attempting to get reqs this suspect, given my recent improvement to being able to hang around the mid 1600s somewhat consistently (even if that likely still isn't good enough to get reqs.) I just hope a Gholdengo suspect will be done shortly after this Gliscor suspect ends.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
the suspect prefix is "ouvt" because we want to get gliscor ouvt of the tier
also gliscor suspect on halloween in some timezones oooooo spoooooky
Last edited:
I don’t think the aggressive banning question was ignored here. 6/10 is very much an average response that would indicate to me that people (on average) want about the current level of banning. You’d want to see at least a 7.5/10 to start banning more aggressively, and maybe into the 8s in my opinion.
I am curious about the answer distribution though. Were there a lot of people in the middle of the vote, or was it an average made of a lot of 1-2, and 9-10? (I know I was an extreme end 9 vote)
I am curious about the answer distribution though. Were there a lot of people in the middle of the vote, or was it an average made of a lot of 1-2, and 9-10? (I know I was an extreme end 9 vote)
Bro take a rest, you could have waited to post the results of the survey xd
the “v” stands for vampire
to whoever ran encore earthquake dragonite specifically to counter my tera poison sinistcha, fuck you
also, i'm baffled
is being suspected over 
. ghold has been a problem since DAY ONE, and gliscor still has its counters in a large chunk of special attackers. if anything, its survivability has dropped since it lost roost, and it still suffers somewhat from 4MSS. also not to mention it isn't immune to 3 of the 4 hazard removal options (the 4th one isn't even really removal). i've actually tried experimenting with air balloon gweezing and even baby hoopa, the former for watching glisc take 30% on a switch in and the latter because hyperspace hole 2HKOs after poison heal and even breaks through protect.
also, i'm baffled
is being suspected over . ghold has been a problem since DAY ONE, and gliscor still has its counters in a large chunk of special attackers. if anything, its survivability has dropped since it lost roost, and it still suffers somewhat from 4MSS. also not to mention it isn't immune to 3 of the 4 hazard removal options (the 4th one isn't even really removal). i've actually tried experimenting with air balloon gweezing and even baby hoopa, the former for watching glisc take 30% on a switch in and the latter because hyperspace hole 2HKOs after poison heal and even breaks through protect.you should train an ai-finch to take over easy-to-automate duties like data collection and explaining survey results so you can get a proper amount of sleep.
(i'm honestly only half-joking, you could probably make a pretty passable copy considering you have almost 13,000 posts of training data from here alone)
What does the T stand for then?
teeth
Even without considering spikes(which is big ofc) Gliscor is fucking obscene. I went 31-1 for my suspect run and all throughout it I used SD spdef Gliscor. Shit lives every single hit known to man and heals it all up while beating everything 1v1 it's actually insane. Also hella fun to use.
Suspect discussion aside, since it'll be discussed more once the thread opens, I find Rotom wash to be reall good, particularly spdef. Being able to take on Moth and sponge a hit from Val to pivot out is really nice while burning stuff here and there. Alsp great into Wake with a fairy in the back like Clef
Suspect discussion aside, since it'll be discussed more once the thread opens, I find Rotom wash to be reall good, particularly spdef. Being able to take on Moth and sponge a hit from Val to pivot out is really nice while burning stuff here and there. Alsp great into Wake with a fairy in the back like Clef
Super off-topic but if:
-One tooth, multiple teeth
-One foot, two feet
Why not:
-One boob, two beeb
???????? what's this chicanery
Also what sets and teammates are you guys using on Wogerpon? I can never seem to fit all I want in one set and if I do I don't know who to pair it with
The way I see it is reactive tera is necessary *as of now*. But this imo hinges on a number of pokemon that are already teetering into the suspect limelight. I don't feel like so much of the random bullshit that tera adds this gen is so powerful except on the mons that we continue to allow to stick around in OU, which includes powerful tera threats that are not on the radar right now. I have stated before I am pro-banning a large number of OU, and i also think it is necessary living in a tera metagame. Unless you believe mons like Sawsbuck and Pyroar to be broken with access to tera in OU, there is obviously some sort of middleground we can find. I stated Cinderace because it is a pokemon that I believe to be balanced even with access to tera. There are pokemon that are broken with tera if you cannot reactively tera, such as Walking Wake which was mentioned earlier, but I think that this is another example of a banworthy mon with tera. Call this foolish, but I do believe this is the best way to make tera a balanced mechanic. Tera inherently favors breakers and setup sweepers, so if the borderline broken-without-tera breakers and setup sweepers we have in OU are too much without reverse tera-ing, would it not make sense to just ban those with tera and exchange it for lower-scale/UU breakers and sweepers. That would put us in a state where we still have tera, there are less 50/50 mindgames, less flexibility and more commitment to a single tera, and something much more predictable to be able to play around and build win-states around.
I understand this but at the same time I don't understand this. Why would we not be in favor of a double restriction if it is something that fixes tera where the two restrictions on their own would not? My restrictions aside, I feel like we should not be inherently opposed to a 2 part restriction just because it is mildly complicated. Like has been argued before with "complex" bans, a lot of these things that are deemed "complex" are not really complex and rather something the community as a whole could agree with.
Last edited:
Gliscor is certainly an issue, is annoying and likely ban worthy.
But let me bring more attention to....
Gholdengo
as the worst offender in SV OU, lets summarize all the thing Gholdengo can do:
Totally negate any kinda of consistent hazard removal.
''Works'' even facing Ghold: Tidy Up (subpar mon that gets 1 shot by Ghold), Court Change (Isnt truly a removal and Cinderace dies in like 2 hits) or G-Weezing that also insta dies to Ghold.
Tusks usually takes a lot of dmg, and many of its sets get hard walled by balloon ghold so Its not a realiable way to remove hazards.
Corv cant do shit
Glimmora just dies
Torkoal gets hard hit from shadow ball
But thats not only it, I think one of the issue is that people focus only in how Gholdengo negates hazard removal, but he does SO MUCH MORE:
-Great typing give it 3 key inmunities, tons of resistances and great powerful coverage with Kingambit (if no FB) and TingLu as best counters, most other mons taking BIG pp DMG
-Stellar Base 133 Sp Atk, that is 365 sp atk as invested timid, makes any set a powerful cannon ball, also have you found the Choice Specs sets? They obliterate anything, 2HKO on Gambit. And to top it off access to Nasty Plot, to make sure anything slower than it dies (which are actually a lot of mons)
-Trick Shenanigans
-Good as Gold... OP ability, inmunity to any status moves, T-Wave, Spore, Encore, Whirlwind, Defog... Gholdengo doesnt care, can Tera into something else and not care about toxic or anything
-Great Natural Bulk + Recover
This mon been dominating the meta since the very begining and its obvious why. It brings so much to the table you cant build a team without constantly thinking about it and if you should run it...
When are we gonna stop this cheeseman crazy rampage? WE GOTTA STOP THIS!
This post has been sponsored by the BAN GHOLDENGO MOVEMENT
But let me bring more attention to....
Gholdengo as the worst offender in SV OU, lets summarize all the thing Gholdengo can do:
Totally negate any kinda of consistent hazard removal.
''Works'' even facing Ghold: Tidy Up (subpar mon that gets 1 shot by Ghold), Court Change (Isnt truly a removal and Cinderace dies in like 2 hits) or G-Weezing that also insta dies to Ghold.
Tusks usually takes a lot of dmg, and many of its sets get hard walled by balloon ghold so Its not a realiable way to remove hazards.
Corv cant do shit
Glimmora just dies
Torkoal gets hard hit from shadow ball
But thats not only it, I think one of the issue is that people focus only in how Gholdengo negates hazard removal, but he does SO MUCH MORE:
-Great typing give it 3 key inmunities, tons of resistances and great powerful coverage with Kingambit (if no FB) and TingLu as best counters, most other mons taking BIG pp DMG
-Stellar Base 133 Sp Atk, that is 365 sp atk as invested timid, makes any set a powerful cannon ball, also have you found the Choice Specs sets? They obliterate anything, 2HKO on Gambit. And to top it off access to Nasty Plot, to make sure anything slower than it dies (which are actually a lot of mons)
-Trick Shenanigans
-Good as Gold... OP ability, inmunity to any status moves, T-Wave, Spore, Encore, Whirlwind, Defog... Gholdengo doesnt care, can Tera into something else and not care about toxic or anything
-Great Natural Bulk + Recover
This mon been dominating the meta since the very begining and its obvious why. It brings so much to the table you cant build a team without constantly thinking about it and if you should run it...
When are we gonna stop this cheeseman crazy rampage? WE GOTTA STOP THIS!
This post has been sponsored by the BAN GHOLDENGO MOVEMENT
Last edited:
mamoswine is not good in OU anymore for one. if it was that easy to just slap on mamoswine for gliscor and gholdengo then i imagine people would have caught onto that by now. but no one did because its simply not that good. and for another, youre not switching mamoswine into shit, it doesnt like knock off and it hates toxic from gliscor, and not only does it not OHKO bulky gholdengo but ghold also cleanly OHKOs back with make it rain. so mamoswine doesnt even solve the main issue people have with these two, its that switching into either of them is awful given the hazards they lay down and their access to moves to fuck up anything that switches in (knock off and toxic from gliscor, literally anything from gholdengo), not to mention losing 1v1 to a pokemon youre supposed to demolish with STAB earthquake is extremely embarrassing.
also poison heal gliscor lacked roost in BW1 and had to rely on protect to scrounge up recovery. and even it was still absolutely phenomenal as a defensive utility pokemon and had pretty much endless longevity thanks to the healing granted by PH coupled with its stealth rock neutrality + immunity to spikes. it misses roost, yes, but it quite evidently does not need it and still lives forever without it.
maybe because most of the "niche" pokemon that could beat gliscor cannot actually handle this current meta? and what pokemon do you even have in mind that can beat gliscor? i guarantee they either A) cannot actually switch in or B) just arent good at all. you mentioned mamoswine but it hates coming in on gliscor in fear of status and gets obliterated by the rest of the metagame regardless so thats not even in the realm of possibility? what do you have in mind then? what fun new options do you have for us to explore in OU?
Gliscor suspect makes sense, I have voiced my opinion on it before and the reasoning given by the council in the post is really good.
That said I personally would've opted to suspect Ghold first even if Glisc scored higher on the survey, just to see how Gliscor would perform in a meta where Golden Joe isn't around anymore (Assuming it gets banned which is debatable)
I dont think Gliscor would be bearable even with Ghold being gone though, since I see Gliscor perform what it currently does regardless of Corv being able to defog without any risk of being blocked. But thats just theorya game theory, thanks for wa
I do think both Gliscor and Ghold are banworthy, due to their restrictive presence on the meta, and would like to see them both go so I am fine with going for Gliscor first
That said I personally would've opted to suspect Ghold first even if Glisc scored higher on the survey, just to see how Gliscor would perform in a meta where Golden Joe isn't around anymore (Assuming it gets banned which is debatable)
I dont think Gliscor would be bearable even with Ghold being gone though, since I see Gliscor perform what it currently does regardless of Corv being able to defog without any risk of being blocked. But thats just theory
I do think both Gliscor and Ghold are banworthy, due to their restrictive presence on the meta, and would like to see them both go so I am fine with going for Gliscor first
Frankly I don't see what all the hype with Gliscor is, I've had no trouble beating it at all, I think Smogon is just lazy, here's my team btw:
Glimmora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Tera Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tera Blast
- Bulk Up
- Rapid Spin
- Headlong Rush
Enamorus @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Cute Charm
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Tera Blast
Iron Moth @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Tera Blast
- Energy Ball
- Substitute
Sneasler @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dire Claw
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast
Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide
- U-turn
- Tera Blast
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Tera Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tera Blast
- Bulk Up
- Rapid Spin
- Headlong Rush
Enamorus @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Cute Charm
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Tera Blast
Iron Moth @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Tera Blast
- Energy Ball
- Substitute
Sneasler @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dire Claw
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast
Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide
- U-turn
- Tera Blast
In fairness, I said these shifts were partially due to Spikes. The rest of this post is just ridiculous. I was just pointing out that Spikes have been overcentralizing before. None of the other claims you are going after in your post are even claims that I've made. Gen 3 (with TSS strategy) saw former OU staples like Porygon2, Raikou, Regice & Houndoom fall out of the metagame. It's not a coincidence that they're all vulnerable to all of TSS. Gen 5 Ferrothorn is pretty nuts and its Spikes alongside Rocks from Garchomp or Gliscor (or take your pick) has a clear metagame warping effect around Magic Guard and Regenerator users. Yes, there are other forms of passive damage that contribute to this. That's why I said "partially".
LMAOOO
I don't think that was what the survey was implying, but rather if we would like a different approach from the Council regarding all of these (and the incoming) bans. I think the Council has been handling the bans pretty much perfectly, with the right amount of suspect tests and not too many quickbans (the only one that was controversial was probably Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, which could have been a quickban), which is why I voted 5/10 on the survey. Overall your point still stands though, 6/10 as an average answer means that the community has trust on the Council decisions and wouldn't like to change things too much right now.
Tier shift time it seems, taking awhile so I'm guessing these are some big shifts that we are getting since they are usually posted by now.
Can't wait to see what moves around
Anyway I do think if Gliscor gets banned that it is a good idea to retest it if Ghold gets the axe too
Can't wait to see what moves around
Anyway I do think if Gliscor gets banned that it is a good idea to retest it if Ghold gets the axe too
Who do you think will be rising and dropping, personally i think skeledirge, alolamola and maybe heatran are rising with tornadus therian, lando therian and empoleon may get a little more usage or fall to uu but toxapex has no place here
Toxapex and Lando-T drop I think (Unsure about landorus-t but Pex is definitely dropping.)
Mola and Torn-T (Thank you for giving it knock off back gamefreak) rise, along with Heatran and Garg probably if I had to guess
I'm out of the loop what's Torn-T doing these days?
Got knock off back, its doing its regular assault vest stuff
It got knock off back, so its doing the whole u-turn knock off regen thing it was best at in past gens. And its definitely picked up in usage to reflect that. Knock off + u-turn + Regen is a really strong combo, especially on torn-t since it has the offensive stats to back it up
Torn-t was in a really rough spot pre dlc due to losing knock pretty much, as knock is just that good of an offensive utility move
- Status