Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Moyashi]

The viability list in general does usually make accurate predictions, but you also get stuff like Articuno-G being considered highly because of early day showcase.

gArt was genuinely excellent early when the meta was in a state that it could do well in. People soon adapted to its presence and it slowed down.

I would rather just run Corv + another spikes setter because Corv provides way more value as a wall. Not only because Pressure is amazing at PP stalling attackers like Iron Boulder who’ll have really limited PP, but U-turn is always a great option.

Iron Boulder overwhelms Corv lol who can’t even do anything back to it. Unless you run IDBP but then you drop uturn which makes it worse. And if you drop defog then you are just worse Skarm.

Pivoting around is usually more valuable and threatening than using Whirlwind that you may or may not get off.

Phasing out and thus racking up hazard chip is threatening and arguably more annoying than Corv being a blob and just clicking uturn.

Additionally Corvi isn’t just passive wall either and can use set up effectively, being better because of better SpD, Bulk Up > Curse, and Pressure being able to help it in set up wars.

no one runs curse skarm whut. But also BU Corv has been bad for a long time now. You would only run ID which Skarm is better at using. Pressure also isn’t that used when roost has such limited PP and Corv is so prone to being overwhelmed.

being worse overall crossbreed of Corv and Gliscor isn’t really that exciting.

you can just say you don’t know what you’re talking about you know. Because this is laughably wrong.

 

[Finchinator]

Skarm is able to punish spin Tusk super well while setting spikes and covering the same defensive profile as Corv. It is absolutely better right now.

Will it always be? No clue, things change. If Defog gets better due to a Ghold ban or metagame shift, then I bet it’ll flip. But for now, there are a few Skarm builds dominating high ladder while Corv is seen more sporadically at a high level.

 

[MuZe]

Is it a hot take to say that Kingambit is the most banworthy thing in the meta right now? It still does the same shit it's always been doing, and it gets really fucking annoying when the difference between winning and losing is just guessing if your opponent is gonna sucker punch or not. That's not even getting into the bullshit it pulls with tera. It'll be at the end of the game, and I'm just clicking court change/SD on my cinderace/blaziken to stall out its sucker punch pp, it's just miserable to play against.

Not judging whether it's broken or not, there is definitely more counterplay to it with the DLC. Enamorus is the best abuser of stellar currently and can threaten it through EP as well. Iron Valiant can run stellar if your team is lacking the usual answers just because Ival isn't usually reliant on Tera and would rather keep its typing defensively. And theoretically, you could run stellar on other mons if you don't wanna run 4 different gambit answers. There is also the new protect from paradox Entei and ID Skarm, which is similar to ID Corv and Mandibuzz but can also whirlwind as well as just another mon to take into account. Archaludon isn't the best answer but it can still live a few hits and boost with stamina, more so with Tera fighting. Worst case: +2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Archaludon: 280-331 (72.9 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. 3HKO with Tera fighting. Archaludon can threaten with body press and flash cannon for the Tera fairy gambits.

 

[Endrism]

Gonna just dump all my opinions on the meta despite nobody asking:

People who think Deoxys isn't busted don't understand the power of Life Orb Psycho Boost. Hazards Deoxys is good and all, but offensive 4 Attacks mixed is where it's at. Psycho Boost, BoltBeam, and Superpower is all you need. Stellar tera type means you can nuke with any of its moves to take out a wall. Its super busted.

I wouldn't say hes mid. Hes a great pokemon for sure, but not busted. With Vacuum Wave distribution being increased, Fairy types being everywhere, and power creep doing its thing, Darkrai is just too frail to be busted. Still great with NP, Scarf, and Specs, but not busted. Maybe after a few bans it will jump to being busted without some things around, but for now it's fine.

Rain just got significantly better. Keldeo and Archuladon are so good in rain it hurts. You don't even really NEED a swift swim user anymore, although Basculegion and Barraskewda still do the funny things they always have. Rain went from being 3rd best weather, to possibly the best weather. The big winner of the DLC for sure.

This thing does the same damn thing it always has, but with Deoxys running around with Ice Beam, it hasn't been able to shine much. Regardless, Gliscor will return to its throne soon.

Shouldnt of even been unbanned. Volcarona has done the same thing since Gen 5, but now still has tera to take lives. Once again with Deoxys around, Volcarona cant shine as much as +1 still doesnt outspeed, but once Deoxys is gone, Volcarona shouldn't be far behind.

Archuladon, Raging Bolt, and Hydrapple are 3 bulky bois doing bulky attacker things and I love em all. Hydrapple's got that AV Regenerator sets doing work with great coverage. Stamina Archuladon finally lets Stamina shine bright, and Raging Bolt has special electric sucker punch. Love all 3 of these, I think they will all settle in the A range. The Bulky Offense meta will rise again.

The big loser in DLC2 imo. It just doesn't do as much anymore with more dragons running around like crazy. Is going to have to adapt and run Play Rough constantly if it wants to keep up, but even then the bulky bois just gatekeep it. Poor guy

GOD I MISSED THIS THING. Leaf Storm Contrary is so funny man, and now can use Tera to cover all of its checks along with Dragon Pulse and the annoying af Glare. I think Serperior will be A+/S- once the meta settles, its just so good.

Has been kinda put in the shadows with the new toys, but people are underestimating it. DD Prism Armor is very nice. 100 BP Stab Psychic Physical move still hurts, but has to settle for Brick Break as a Dark type answer, but can make it work with Tera Fighting to wipe out Gambits. +1 Knock Offs also really hurt things neutral and above while adding the utility of getting rid of items. It did lose Rock Polish so Double Dance sets arent going to be viable really unless ID + Calm Mind could possibly work but idk. Nice heat option, could be a good niche low B tier pick later on.

boo-womp. This thing is going to UU. Bulky Psychics just suck, and Deoxys is way too passive to get things done. It can be set up on so easily. Definitely the worst Deoxys.

DDance and Specs Kyurem still nuke hard, but is now BUFFED with Snowstorm giving it a defense boost, letting it pair well with AloTales for easy nuke access. Will definitely be on the radar once Deoxys-Speed is gone.

EDIT: COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT

Stellar Tera Contrary Tera Blast is horrifying, combined with Superpower and Play Rough, or even a special set with Moonblast and Mystical Fire makes this thing unpredictable, could follow in the ban wave.

TL:DR: Deoxys-Speed gotta go. Volcarona, Gliscor, and Kyurem (AND ENAMORUS) may quickly follow. Rain is goated with the sauce.

 

[Anchor9]

Spec Latios and Scarf Stellar Enamorus are some of the most dangerous threats I’ve faced as of late. I’m running Thunderclap Raging Bolt and Sucker Punch Gambit just to do something.

Archaludon is the new Zamazenta that doesn’t give anything to Scarf Enamorus.

Booster Iron Boulder is one of the most annoying revenge killers ever. Any good counters?

 

[Cuddly]

gArt was genuinely excellent early when the meta was in a state that it could do well in. People soon adapted to its presence and it slowed down.

Yeah, and how do you know Skarmory won’t fall off as well?

Iron Boulder overwhelms Corv lol who can’t even do anything back to it. Unless you run IDBP but then you drop uturn which makes it worse. And if you drop defog then you are just worse Skarm.

That was just an example from experiance as you’ll realize how much pressure can screw over low BP attacking moves like Mighty Cleave or Close Combat or Leaf Storm or Sucker Punch. So it’s not as non-threatening as some people would like to believe.
Also no dropping Defog doesn’t make you a “worse Skarm”. You have way better SpD, Pressure, U-turn, and set diversity.

Phasing out and thus racking up hazard chip is threatening and arguably more annoying than Corv being a blob and just clicking uturn.

Depends on scenario and several factors. U-turn means you get a fast threat in safely, which means you also rack up hazard damage thanks to momentum. So if you use U-Turn on Dragapult, you can switch into Iron Valiant or something to force it out, and doing so getting a turn to do what you want so long as Dragapult user doesn’t read you using something other than Fairy move. Whirlwind can do this multiple times but has no way to get frailer threats in. Also you’re pretty vulnerable while doing it. While momentum can actually be predictable what Pokemon your opponent will send out, whirlwind is random and can easily force in special attacker or taunt user or something that otherwise forces Skarmory to stop.
Oh and you know, Hatterene can switch in, magic bounce your whirlwinds, spikes, and disable your healing to force a switch with Psychic Noise, which you know is better of an option now because of Deo-S and Gliscor being unbanned and movepool buffs and honestly more people should talk about it.

no one runs curse skarm whut. But also BU Corv has been bad for a long time now. You would only run ID which Skarm is better at using. Pressure also isn’t that used when roost has such limited PP and Corv is so prone to being overwhelmed.

Nah Bulk Up sets are actually surprisingly good. When you expect Corviknight to just sit there and U-turn, you can be caught off guard and let it spiral out of control. And yes Pressure a good ability with Roost. You get the PP equalized to basically 16 PP on your roosts in some scenarios as your opponent loses more of their attacking PP. It can matter a lot when using Close Combat where its PP is effectively 4 against Corviknight.

you can just say you don’t know what you’re talking about you know. Because this is laughably wrong

Maybe you could “educate” me on why I’m wrong instead of smuggly saying I am. You’re supposedly an expert, you can explain why you’d use Skarmory over Gliscor in the long run.

 

[Frankl1]

LO Deoxys-Speed gotta go as fast as he can, like ziouuuuuum

 

[StompyStomps]

Archaludon- This thing is fantastic, Dragon/Steel w/ Stamina, Body Press, just overall solid movepool
Darkrai- Slept on imo (No pun intended, but just pretend it was), with solid Speed and Special Attack, Nasty Plot, and a wide coverage movepool, its a sleeper hit (pun very much intended that time)
was going to do the rest of my lust but ran out of motivation

 

[1234hjkl]

Booster Iron Boulder is one of the most annoying revenge killers ever. Any good counters?

Boulder is one of the best Paradox now because of the combo of Rock+Steel Coverage+Psychic and SD covers too much, best way to do it is check it defensively when it sets up, I like to use Hydrapple, assuming no hazards and some investement in HP or Def it can stomach any hit which isn't TeraRock Cleave or the extremely rare Megahorn.

 

[carbonlifeform]

to put a topic for convo, what are you experimenting with right now? Are you min maxing a style? Or are you grabbing whatever makes your eyes shiny

In my habit of perfect timing, I posted about this just before the Terapagos ban and the chaos/collective roasting that ensued, but I've been having a stupid amount of fun running Manual E-Terrain with Iron Crown as the setter. Started mucking around with the Valiant+Boulder tandem tonight, and getting to run non-BE sets while still providing speed control is, indeed, absolutely insane (Moth was also great in terrain, Iron Hands was...okay but probably appreciates Veil and/or Grassy Terrain more).

This will probably top out as a 15-1600s troll pick, at least without more work to optimize the team around it, but this is the most fun I've had playing 'mons in a while.

Iron Moth Meteor Beam shenanigans:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014617589
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014593546
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2013613077
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014519275
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2013145251?p2

Mixed EBelt Valiant being an absolute demon:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014707528
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014721702?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014716432?p2

LO Iron Boulder doing Iron Boulder things, but more:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014700739?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014718108?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014727297 (BE Iron Boulder doesn't get that KO on Gouging Fire, giving it a chance to DD and make things complicated)

 

[Ctann]

Tera grass serperior with choice specs on grassy terrain has a great chance to 2hko standard stall blissey.

 

[bigasschungusboi]

Whoever in here talking smack on BIG SKARMS name better reveal themselves to be ʷᶦᵐᵖʸ ᶜᵒʳᵛᶦᵏⁿᶦᵍʰᵗ ᶠᵃⁿˢ That can't handle real old school skarm HEAT

EDIT:Corv has had an entire year to get a team spot and all it did was whine about Dengo, SKARM hopped right into the meta saw that nothing had changed and went right back to doing what it fucking loved, Setting spikes, Walling mons and Laughing all day

 

[blueman164]

Anyone have any good balance cores to try out? Since the sample teams aren't out yet I wanna see what people are going with in this early meta.

 

[Avira]

Anyone have any good balance cores to try out? Since the sample teams aren't out yet I wanna see what people are going with in this early meta.

Here's a team vert and njnp made: https://pokepast.es/a55ca105aab54a64

Oops, I forgot that Terapagos was on this team. Nevermind.

 

[CobsonYaoi]

Do NOT use Supercell Slam that shit has a 0% percent accuracy rate

In my habit of perfect timing, I posted about this just before the Terapagos ban and the chaos/collective roasting that ensued, but I've been having a stupid amount of fun running Manual E-Terrain with Iron Crown as the setter. Started mucking around with the Valiant+Boulder tandem tonight, and getting to run non-BE sets while still providing speed control is, indeed, absolutely insane (Moth was also great in terrain, Iron Hands was...okay but probably appreciates Veil and/or Grassy Terrain more).

This will probably top out as a 15-1600s troll pick, at least without more work to optimize the team around it, but this is the most fun I've had playing 'mons in a while.

Iron Moth Meteor Beam shenanigans:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014617589
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014593546
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2013613077
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014519275
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2013145251?p2

Mixed EBelt Valiant being an absolute demon:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014707528
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014721702?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014716432?p2

LO Iron Boulder doing Iron Boulder things, but more:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014700739?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014718108?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2014727297 (BE Iron Boulder doesn't get that KO on Gouging Fire, giving it a chance to DD and make things complicated)

Can you please upload the Meteor Beam team in a Pokepaste? I really want to try that out.

 

[tinyranitar]

Is there any spicy Deoxys-S EVs spread? The only one I know is Modest Deoxys-S outruns Protosynthesis Speed Great Tusk with 220 EV (451 speed vs 450)

 

[Magcargo]

Might be new toy syndrome, but imo this Pokemon is a lot better now. Combination of Urshifu no longer being in the metagame, and old roadblocks such as Toxapex, Tapu Fini, and Slowbro either being less relevant or being less prevalent make this pokemon more useful than in gen 8 IMO (where it was arguably an underrated pick). This Pokemon has its fair share of advantages of its competition like Iron Valiant and Walking Wake as well. Water / Fighting STAB is better than Fairy / Fighting IMO since it hits more threats neutrally and Keldeo has access to Flip Turn, while compared to Wake, Keldeo has Secret Sword to immediately Knock Out Blissey, a more potent offensive STAB combo, Calm Mind, and Vaccum Wave to catch cheaky Gambit off Guard. I think Keldeo could become a metagame staple this generation.

 

[Return to Zero]

Anyone have any good balance cores to try out? Since the sample teams aren't out yet I wanna see what people are going with in this early meta.

My ELO has run a pretty wild spectrum since this metagame started, but I never dropped below 1400 once I started using this, and I've been tweaking things intermittently since. Rain is very good right now. Greninja's place there is kind of shaky but the rest have all been consistent.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Here's a team vert and njnp made: https://pokepast.es/a55ca105aab54a64

Oops, I forgot that Terapagos was on this team. Nevermind.

(no disrespect intended to the builders, they're very talented, the team is good, and there's nothing wrong with using consistently excellent mons. i was just really hoping for a whole bunch of new balance tools in this dlc and we only got a couple)

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

so, three days in (and one thousand posts!), i've got three questions for everyone:

1. what's the most heat set you've used so far?
2. what's the most ridiculous smeargle set you've seen on ladder or in tours? (follow-up: did it work?)
3. what's your hottest take on the viability of one of the new, returning, or changed mons?

 

[Return to Zero]

so, three days in, i've got three questions for everyone:

1. what's the most heat set you've used so far?
2. what's the most ridiculous smeargle set you've seen on ladder or in tours? (follow-up: did it work?)
3. what's your hottest take on the viability of one of the new, returning, or changed mons?

1. Either the Archaludon or Raging Bolt sets I posted above. Both of these mons are really fun and I find them to be strong but balanced parts of OU. Archaludon in particular is my favorite. I love opening with Pelipper, switching it in, and scaring the opponent with dummy boosting.

2: Sticky Webs lead, but with added Burning Bulwark for pivoting. It sounds dumb, but it was paired with Gouging Fire itself and freed it up to be an offensive Choice Band monster.

3: Excepting Deoxys, Gliscor is the best out of the mons dropped from Ubers right now.

 

[j0nathan]

so, three days in (and one thousand posts!), i've got three questions for everyone:

1. what's the most heat set you've used so far?
2. what's the most ridiculous smeargle set you've seen on ladder or in tours? (follow-up: did it work?)
3. what's your hottest take on the viability of one of the new, returning, or changed mons?

1. I love Iron Moth. With Fiery Dance, Sludge Wave, Dazzling Gleam and Energy Ball (or Tera Blast?) and a Speed Booster Energy this thing just sometimes sweeps through whole Teams.

2. This is quite funny cause I don't remember facing a single Smeargle although I played around 100 Matches so far.

3. Iron Boulder sucks. It sounds like a good Pokémon: good Stats and good Movepool, but the typing just makes it weak imo. Water, Dark and Ground are just so popular that I don't think this guy has a chance of staying in OU

 

[pika pal]

Might be new toy syndrome, but imo this Pokemon is a lot better now. Combination of Urshifu no longer being in the metagame, and old roadblocks such as Toxapex, Tapu Fini, and Slowbro either being less relevant or being less prevalent make this pokemon more useful than in gen 8 IMO (where it was arguably an underrated pick). This Pokemon has its fair share of advantages of its competition like Iron Valiant and Walking Wake as well. Water / Fighting STAB is better than Fairy / Fighting IMO since it hits more threats neutrally and Keldeo has access to Flip Turn, while compared to Wake, Keldeo has Secret Sword to immediately Knock Out Blissey, a more potent offensive STAB combo, Calm Mind, and Vaccum Wave to catch cheaky Gambit off Guard. I think Keldeo could become a metagame staple this generation.

Something else I've found funny to think about is how bad Keldeo's Attack move were in Gen 8 to the point Un-Tera'd Tera Blast might have still been useful "Coverage" for certain resists before we saw it get things like Flip Turn and Vaccuum Wave.

 

[CobsonYaoi]

so, three days in (and one thousand posts!), i've got three questions for everyone:

1. what's the most heat set you've used so far?
2. what's the most ridiculous smeargle set you've seen on ladder or in tours? (follow-up: did it work?)
3. what's your hottest take on the viability of one of the new, returning, or changed mons?

1. I suck at team building so I haven't used any good sets yet
2. I only encountered a Smeargle once on the ladder but I never saw its moves because I used Icicle Spear Kyreum.
3. Deoxys-Speed isn't overpowered. Sure it's really good at being a hazard setter and strong attacker, but it never made me go "Wow this needs to be banned ASAP."

 

[fightnugget]

so, three days in (and one thousand posts!), i've got three questions for everyone:

1. what's the most heat set you've used so far?
2. what's the most ridiculous smeargle set you've seen on ladder or in tours? (follow-up: did it work?)
3. what's your hottest take on the viability of one of the new, returning, or changed mons?

1. Focus Energy Ogerpon-Cornerstone. During Turtle Time I got sick of all the Screen Offense, Unaware Spam, and Iron Defense or Cosmic Power sets so I tried this. Both Rockpon and Waterpon beat every Unaware user and Ivy Cudgel has 100% critical hit rate after Focus Energy to ignore Screens, Defense Boosts, and Attack drops. I like Rockpon over Waterpon because of Sturdy and Dragon heavy meta. It isn't better than Swords Dance but when it does it's thing I feel like a villain.

2. I havent seen much, so far just Spore/Web and Spore/Tailwind.

3. If Kingambit and Roaring Moon get banned then Latios will either be a top mon or at least make people glad to have Darkrai in the tier. I love clicking Luster Purge.