i dont have the replay anymore, i got quite salty after that game and didnt think of saving it, i maybe couldve tried to double every single turn to avoid having to fight that pokemon with anything slower or so but it was legitamately the sample team here and while i first tried to double a lot to avoid things like that it is difficult to keep up with everything if you know if you do one thing wrong you lose a pokemon or two, especially if the opponent is not a bot and knows that you have to make plays because otherwise they will just same type tera to destroy you and your whole existence
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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*pops into Smogon for the first time since Walking Wake dropped*
*Notices recent Iron Hands discussion*
Awww yeah, folks. My time to shine.
Iron Hands is literally my reason for still playing OU at all. I have zero idea why I love it so much, but I just can't quit my chunky, clunky boi.
Haven't played much in a minute, but it sounds like the tier has tipped back towards HO after a brief spell of being more Balance-oriented following the Cyclizar/Chien-Pao/Espathra bans. If so, it's probably worth checking in on my favorite tech from the early days of the generation: ID/BP Iron Hands.
Iron Hands @ Leftovers
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Thunder Punch/Heavy Slam/Earthquake
- Whirlwind
With Iron Hands' massive natural HP Max/Max defenses gives the best possible survivability. Bring it in on Kingambit or something else that Iron Hands normally forces out. Click ID on the predicted switch to Great Tusk and go to town. With one boost, you don't even need to Tera Flying to handle Tusk:
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. +2 0 HP / 252+ Def Iron Hands: 134-162 (29.8 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Def Iron Hands Body Press vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 298-352 (80.3 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Whirlwind is the real icing on the cake, here. You can honestly hard switch this into pretty much any physical setup sweeper (Bax, Dragonite, Roaring Moon, Gambit), at least keep pace with their gains if not outpace them while boosting your damage in the process. Then, either wallop them with BP or Phaze them away to limit your damage. You can also act as a poor man's Ting-Lu as an emergency phazer for dangerous special attackers to remove boosts and/or force Hazard chip.
The big problem is the 4MSS. You really, really want ID/BP/WW, which leaves you with only one more coverage move. EQ is your best bet for sheer versatility. Thunder Punch is Electric STAB in a tier that is woefully lacking in it. Heavy Slam, as I've discussed before, dunks on a lot of things that don't expect it. Even with no investment, it has a shot to OHKO Iron Valiant and is a clean 2HKO on Hatterene while doing respectable damage to a lot of other targets, notably 2HKOing Dragapult (after Hazards) and H-Zoroark, but leaves you absolutely useless against Gholdengo, Ceruledge, and Skeledirge.
Not the star of any given team, but seriously, with a little planning, it will invalidate a lot of offensive teams all by itself.
My other favorite set continues to be AV:
Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Steel/Flying
EVs: 108 Atk / 252 SpD / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch/Low Kick
- Thunder Punch
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake/Ice Punch/Facade
Note that speed EVs are set to creep folks creeping 4 Spe Corv. AV Iron Hands is just stupid bulky on the special side while retaining the option to use its coverage and strong natural attack and physical bulk, to emergency check all manner of stuff. Here's all you need to know in one calc:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 396-468 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
You read that right: Iron Valiant needs Specs and Tera Fairy to OHKO and will still come up short the majority of the time. I've got two techs I like here that I'll give some added context on. First: Low Kick.
We've all seen how good Low Kick and Grass Knot are this gen with the plethora of heavy-set `Mons running around, but Low Kick in particular seems like it's mostly just been used as a Kingambit Lure. For Iron Hands, though, it's more than that. Against most of the tier Low Kick is doing significantly more damage than Drain Punch. Just going through the S/A Ranks of the Viability Rankings (which I know are out of date which is why I won't go further), it hits 100+ BP against:
Great Tusk
Kingambit
Dragonite
Garganacl
Baxcalibur
Roaring Moon
Ting-Lu
Walking Wake
Clodsire
Hydreigon
Dondozo
Scizor
Kingambit
Dragonite
Garganacl
Baxcalibur
Roaring Moon
Ting-Lu
Walking Wake
Clodsire
Hydreigon
Dondozo
Scizor
Great Tusk is the thing most holding Iron Hands back. It's bulky. It's strong. It's faster than you. It can wreck you with Ground STAB. It's everywhere. To me, it makes running SD borderline purposeless unless you really want to commit to clicking Tera Flying on your Iron Hands in the majority of matches where you need it to be useful. Being able to chip it hard on the switch without *needing* to run Ice Punch (which is weaker than STAB Low Kick) or just going for the hard double is amazing utility.
Losing out on the longevity and reliability of Drain Punch can hurt, but hitting harder also means you're facing fewer turns of damage from the opponent, so it often equals out -- especially in the midgame, where Low Kick might have the oomph to finish off something that Drain Punch doesn't, exposing you to less damage. Low Kick adds that extra oomph without actively reducing your survivability or risking running out of PP a la Close Combat.
Tera Flying does the usual thing, but I do really like Tera Steel as a way to both turn the tables on Psychic and Fairy moves while also turning Heavy Slam into a real weapon, especially since it tends to hit the things that Low Kick doesn't (screw you, Washtom).
The final move slot goes to whatever floats your boat, but I want to put in a good word for Facade. Especially with Volcarona everywhere, having a fallback in case of burn is incredible useful, and Facade cleanly 2HKO's bulky Volc in the event you get wisped or proc flame body. It also makes that Washtom MU less infuriating.
In terms of partners: Iron Hands loves hazard support. It greatly helps the utility of Whirlwind on the ID/BP set and helps make up for the loss of power that comes with investing in bulk on the AV set. Iron Hands also hates hazards on its side of the field. Its HP is a massive part of its bulk and it hates losing a raw percentage each time it comes in. Finally, Iron Hands loves anything that can help its longevity, as it lacks a meaningful source of recovery.
On the hazards front, I've probably had the most luck with Ting Lu. On top of setting Spikes and not just rocks, it eases Iron Hands' defensive burden and makes its job easier offensively with Ruination. It can even drop its own WW when playing along side the ID/BP set. Hatterene and Talonflame both do solid work on the hazard control and longevity fronts, especially for the AV set. TFlame can switch into fairy and ground attacks for you, spread burn, and keep Gholdengo from blocking its defog. Hatterene helps keep the hazards off in the first place and can bring you back from the brink with Healing Wish. On the longevity front, I've also really liked Arboliva for Grassy Terrain support (more passive healing plus weaker Earthquakes), but Grassy Terrain also weakens your own EQ, which can be unfortunately limiting if you want to run it.
Hope these sets give folks some use.
We need to MOGA (Make Overused Great Again) by bringing Gren back to the tier, get your frogs ready to fight!! 
tell that to ww sun with proto speed
I wish I replied earlier though lol
completely unrelated to this reply but people are starting to realize that iron hands is good
(I wish people would understand that my boi slither wing chunks everything in the meta with choice band tera bug proto attack adamant first impressions)
hands is my chonky go to to partner with gholdengo/corv because they break checks(for example iron hands can sacrifice eq to hard switch into cs gholdengo for the kill(because if they mispredict thinking it's a np set they are in for a lot of trouble against hands, same with tusk hating corviknight and bp knight removing tusk with bb)
a usual team for me using hands is tusk(you know if you know) corv, hands, meow and last two slots are up to you. I recommend either dirge/garg/bozo/pex for the defensive core in this ho meta but it's up to you
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ya you sold me im running iron hands immediately
pair with pivot meow and say bye to the washtom nightmares
oh no I'm gonna have to find a counter to those hands before this meta changes to hands clap teams
my days of using tera water garg are over(sad emoji)
Your opponent had sun up, cleared away your hazards, both preserved Typhlosion's health and brought it in safely, and spent their once-per-game terastalization on the mon...and with all that work to get huge numbers, they still needed Choice Specs to beat your counter?
That's a clean outplay on their part to get the stars aligned, that's all. We all get beat, this was memorable for you because it had flashy results, that's all.
Love the Iron Hands/Meowscarada pairing in theory. Never worked out as well as I wanted, but I think that I was running Scarf Meow with SD Hands (back pre Chien Pao ban). I should probably try it again, maybe with CB Meowscarada and AV Hands?
Also, I think I forgot to note that the ID/BP Hands set is terrible against balance and stall in my experience. Just miserable. Hates burn. Hates poison. Hates bulky fighting resists. Hates unaware mons. Really just there to absorb damage and maybe wrack up some hazard chip with Whirlwind if playing against more defensive teams.
deserved for using toxapex
Attachments
Banded Scizor oh-kos before it can get any screens up because of priority bullet punch.
Also moves like brick break and raging bull destroy screens.
You can also use defog from a mon like Corvinight.
depending whether it has parting shot or not you can trap it with infestation and waste the screens. it cant do anything to toxapex
Lead Meow ignores Grimm’s taunt cuz it’s a dark type and can taunt back, knock off light clay, and/or set up spikes. Personally I’d taunt turn 1 and then knock off turn 2 to really minimize the turns of screens (bonus is you also taunt anything trying to set up with screens)
Also something that I always forget is that infiltrator Dragapult’s attacks ignore screens. I’ve been liking the darts, hex, wisp, sub leftover set recently but specs is always good
Against low ladder players you can lead an obvious hazard setter (eg glimmora) and switch to hat when they taunt so it bounces back
Running an unaware mon like dondozo or skele will often be good against these types of teams as well
Other defensive answers like whirlwind (Ting Lu and apparently iron hands) and haze (Toxapex, clod) are other options
Ironically if you wanna escape low ladder quickly it’s often easy to run cheesy hyper offense like screens yourself
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Body Press on Iron Hands was a fantastic idea, immediately switched that one from Drain Punch. But I an not a fan of Iron Defense in a Unaware Metagame. Also Tera Flying is also a good idea.
I stick to full PhysDef Impish and am complatating running Lefties and switching Rest Talk for moves like Whirlwind + Protect or something.
But Rocky Helmet is really good for punishing U-Turn. I hope some Iron ✋️ Afficiniando gives Full Physdef a chance.
I stick to full PhysDef Impish and am complatating running Lefties and switching Rest Talk for moves like Whirlwind + Protect or something.
But Rocky Helmet is really good for punishing U-Turn. I hope some Iron ✋️ Afficiniando gives Full Physdef a chance.
Im curious to hear from yall. Dragonite is the best pokemon from Gen 1 at the moment especially with terastillization in the picture.
I know there a hundreds of sets this mon can use from Banded, to bulky utility, and even mixed attack sets. With an expansive move pool and terastillization this mon is very versatile.
Inner Focus is cool and all, granting it immunity to flinches and intimidate, but I feel like Multiscale puts it over the top. It ensures that it lives at least one super-effective attack.
Without the Multiscale ability would it still be in OU? Or would it drop to UU ?
if the new ability was as useless as inner focus it would drop to UU. look at what else is in UU this gen, salamence, scizor, tyranitar, greninja. I'd wager that if heavy duty boots didnt exist it'd only be holding onto OU by a hair as well. multiscale is an S tier ability, especially when you can guarantee it wont be broken when it switches in.
I've not played a ton of OU over the last month, but I'm curious - what do you all think is behind the high Iron Moth usage? It's good, don't get me wrong, but I'm a bit surprised to see it's top ten in usage even in a fairly favourable meta for it. Is it being used as a breaker on sun teams? Is it just that there's not a ton of specially defensive mons around, and it's a rare strong special attacker with a good speed tier? It's definitely easier to just use out the box without good positioning than Volc or Hydreigon, who I think are two of its main competitors, but I didn't see the utility or variety from it in the early meta that I would expect from something that highly used.
i am not an experienced player- but the reason for moth being so prevalent seems to be for its typing. it pairs great with dragons by snuffing a lot of fairy moves, it can eat flower tricks from banded meowscarada, and doesnt require setup like volc does. this comes at the cost of losing quiver and flame body, but truthfully? its not really that big a deal. they serve different roles, one is a purely offensive mon with good defensive utility and the other is a win condition/sweeper. the moth and the volc are good. really damn good.
I think there was some tournament recently, other than that it's just a genuinely good pokemon and is arguably a slightly more consistent volcarona
tech brick break on something, or use defog corviknight
without toxapex there is no way to check iron moth, volcarona, specs valiant, and others
for one gen I actually appreciate toxapex in this offensive spam meta
correction
you lose the biggest reason why BO is a playable style
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