Resource SV OU Post-HOME Viability Ranking Thread [ Final Update: Post #280 ]

[658Greninja]

-Rotom-W to B+. Nothing has really changed, but I haven't seen this Mon too often recently, and when I did, it didn't do much.

I think a fair bit has changed with Wastom imo that warranted the rise. Rain and BB Gren have been on since late July-early August, mandating Water resists and/or Tera Water onto teams or get 6-0d by Gren. Most bulky water resists are passive with a few exceptions like Dnite or Bax. Its pivoting capabilities are enchanced further by the plethora of offensive threats who can puncture a whole with just one free switch.

Washtom serves as a bulky water that is not passive. Hydro + Volt/Discharge are difficult to switch into without it forcing some kind of progress but either pivoting into a dangerous threat or crippling something with burns or para. Washtom is also immune to spikes which helps with its longevity issue. It helps that Washtom also matches up well against opposing bulky waters, Molt, and Tran. There are some other sets like Scarf Trick to cripple Cress/Gambit and Tera Steel Sub-NP which is a sleeper breaker that shits on Garg, Amoonguss, and Pex while also soft-checking Bax. Washtom has good role compression in this metagame being a bulky water that can pivot while being a ground immune, and also burn Gambit in a pinch, then pivot into a check.

Also I 100% agree with the Azu rise. Been running it on alot of my builds. That mon is incredibly anti-meta and is one of the few reliable checks to Bax and Wake that also provides role compression as Speed Control and a Breaker. Not to mention a bulky water that isn’t passive. I’ve experimented with Encore which messes up Dozo and Cress. It is heavily reliant on Future Sight support to break balance teams with Amoonguss/Pex, but you aren’t losing much for running a Top 10 mon alongside Azu and its defensive profile is enough to justify a boost in the VR.

 

[Magcargo]

Some thoughts after Wcop:

-Ting-Lu for me is not A+ at all. Too passive, too many weaknesses unless Tera, very easy to switch into with the greatest spinner (Tusk). It does wear down Tusk for a late game Gambit sweep, but the rest of hazard setters already do that too. Useful movepool, but severe case of 4 slot syndrome.

-Garganacl on the other hand, fully deserves the A+ rank. People have been adapting to it with Cloaks or Subs, but despite that, it has been consistently winning. Garay and McMeghans games (which featured Tera Electric btw) in finals are good examples of that. There are still some unexplored options such as Avalanche (should beat Sub Lando) that can further boost the versatility.

-Similarly, Hisuian Samurott is a better Spiker than Ting Lu, should be A+. Has a million sets, adapts to almost all styles (could even be used with Restalk in Stall), gets the job done in 90% of the games (Ceaseless Edge accuracy), threatens Tusk.

-Zamazenta to A-. IronPress sets are straight up bad. Offensive sets are better, but still have enough answers on all styles.

-Heatran to B. Very unexplored Mon this Gen, but so far haven't seen it doing worthy things. This Gen is much more offensive than last one and it means Magma Storm accuracy is much more painful, misses are punished harder. It's also very hard to fit on teams, Gholdengo is superior as Steel, Moltres and Iron Moth are better Fire Mons.

-Rotom-W to B+. Nothing has really changed, but I haven't seen this Mon too often recently, and when I did, it didn't do much.

-Azumarill to A-. Baxcalibur is broken. With Protect + Leftovers + 3 Attacks, Azu checks pretty well almost all sets. Band and Drum are a thing too. Apart from Bax, Azu soft checks Valiant, Wake (outside of Sun) and Hisuian Samurott, each of them extremely dangerous Mons.

-Roaring Moon to B. Hard to fit, doesn't sweep nearly as reliably anymore. Still viable on Sun, but not so much outside of it.

-Torkoal to A-. Sun is very good and versatile, Sun setter should be higher therefore. Glowking (and Johtoking too) are annoying, but Sun has many tools to beat both.

-Clodsire to A-. One of the few Wake switch-ins with Water Absorb. Very good with Unaware on Stall. If Pdef, checks every single Iron Valiant set except Specs Psyshock, which it still takes. Tera Dark stops Stored Power Hatto, even when Pdef, but especially with Sdef. Enamorus is checked by Clod too.

-Lilligant Hisui to B+. It's a Sun Mon, one of the few that actually outspeed Booster Valiant. It has the problem of not being able to beat Zapdos, Gholdengo and Moltres at the same time, but it has a very good support Movepool, being able to boost in 2 different ways, sleep something or Defog (+Tera Blast Fire for Gholdengo). Being weak to the birds is not a big problem, since most of the time the switch-in to them is telegraphed (LO CC + Solar Blade + Tera Blast is hard to check without birds), so you can switch Wake in to wreck those birds.

-Sandy Shocks to A-. It's either a Sun or an HO Mon. Sun is good, HO is good, Shocks is hard to check and switches into U-Turnless Zapdos for free.

-Slither Wing to C. Another good Sun Mon. With Tera Ghost Band versions of this Mon are very hard to check, due to being.

-Typhlosion Hisui to C. Unexpectedly, this does not require Sun to work, though it appreciates it. Specs Eruptions demolish almost the whole Tier, even when not at full. When it's low, Specs Blaze Flamethrower also hits very hard. Status support is appreciated to power up Infernal Parade, but even by itself, the move can burn on the multiple switches Typhlosion causes. In my final Wcop battle, I used a Typhlosion with 3 Mons capable of paralyze and 2 capable of pivoting (well, 3 if we count Meowscarada, but mine didn't have U-Turn) to bring it safely in. People that have seen the battle can tell I played it very poorly (and I agree with that) , but Typhlosion still managed to contribute to my win. Typhlosion needs quite a lot of support to work, but it is a very competent breaker.

-Umbreon to D. It's a Bax check with Inner Focus + Tera Fairy. Bax is broken. Apart from Bax, it supports with Wish + Thunder Wave. Umbreon hard checks all versions of DD Nite. At full, it lives everything except Tera Fairy Blast from +2 Kingambit, which means it can para it. Pult is very well checked too.

Agreed with Samurott-H rise. This mon is not just a hazard bot. It's an extremely customizable pick that can viably run multiple moves like Encore, Taunt, priority, SD, etc. to best suit its teams needs. I've been running SD and even that has plenty of cudtomizability since that can run either Tera Water or Dark and either Aqua Jet or Sucker Punch to give it the edge against various threats like opposing priority users or bulkier revenge killers. On top of that, it has like 50 viable items in can run too. Of course, versatility isn't the end all of a Pokemon, but having so many options pairs well with Samurott's role as a Ceaseless Edge user, since it can subvert common counterplay quite easily and even punish the opponent that may just see it as a Craseless Edge Bot. It matches up nicely vs some common picks too like Gholdengo and Gambit, though these pokemon are beginning to run moves like Thundrrbolt and low Kick to make it a bit harder for Samurott-H to get in for free.

Agreed with Sandy Shocks to A-. This mon is a nightmare to switch into with its booster Energy set. Thunderbolt, EP, and Tera Blast Ice wrecks lots of common mons like Cinder, Lando-T, etc. with its boosted speed and good bulk making it hard to revenge kill.

Also, after watching a bit of WCOP, I think Slowking-G might be worthy of S - Rank. It is a bit exploitable, but regenerater means it's longevity is second to none and it's future sight is a powerful tool to create checkmate scenarios for partners like Gambit. Can also very easily tech something like Focus blast so even stuff like Gambit and Samur can't switch in safely.

 

[Azure_Crystal]

• UR to D

After skimming through the VR rises and falls, I noticed Froslass rise from Unranked to D tier. I can really only assume but whats the reason for the rise, although it seems like a minuscule niche.

 

[1LDK]

• UR to D

After skimming through the VR rises and falls, I noticed Froslass rise from Unranked to D tier. I can really only assume but whats the reason for the rise, although it seems like a minuscule niche.

It has insane role compression, spikes, will o wisp, ghost typing, and utility for a lead with icy wind and cursed body, its a decent HO spikes lead

 

[sims796]

So D tier isn't a "meme pick" tier that I once thought it was? I believed that in the past, D ranking was just that, mons that are OU by usage but are just...bad. They weren't even allowed to be spoken about.

From what it looks like now, it seems like this tier can at least get things done, like a super niche pick.

Am I correct in that assessment?

 

[Empress Mobile]

So D tier isn't a "meme pick" tier that I once thought it was? I believed that in the past, D ranking was just that, mons that are OU by usage but are just...bad. They weren't even allowed to be spoken about.

From what it looks like now, it seems like this tier can at least get things done, like a super niche pick.

Am I correct in that assessment?

I think adding the D tier was helpful because it includes Pokemon that have a niche but just aren't worth using in the vast majority of scenarios. They can put in a lot of work against an unprepared team but are either very inconsistent or generally outclassed. D tier was actually only utilized for the purpose described in your post (by usage only) for lower tiers, unless it was used by OU for a short period of time that I'm unaware of. I would probably characterize D tier as gimmicks.

 

[sims796]

I think adding the D tier was helpful because it includes Pokemon that have a niche but just aren't worth using in the vast majority of scenarios. They can put in a lot of work against an unprepared team but are either very inconsistent or generally outclassed. D tier was actually only utilized for the purpose described in your post (by usage only) for lower tiers, unless it was used by OU for a short period of time that I'm unaware of. I would probably characterize D tier as gimmicks.

That's cool, I always thought we should have a slot for gimmicks. Gimmicks can win world cups after all.

Nothing is sexier than a Zapdos/Heatran/Gold/Iron Moth dying to it's own attack due to a Mirror Coat from an Assault Vest Arbo.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

That's cool, I always thought we should have a slot for gimmicks. Gimmicks can win world cups after all.

Nothing is sexier than a Zapdos/Heatran/Gold/Iron Moth dying to it's own attack due to a Mirror Coat from an Assault Vest Arbo.

Still, even seeing b- and b rank mons, as well as even some c rank mons! win big tournaments recent, like how a torn-t team won an entire tournament recently always shows that something may be a tad better than it looks, even if said pokemon like torn-t isn't consistent, it is possible to win with something too gimmicky or too niche to be viable at all in d ranks. Would not be surprised if a d rank mon that is super gimmicky won a tournament somehow.

 

[Magcargo]

-> S-Rank

Baxcalibur is imo the strongest Pokemon in A+ by a mile and is easily on the level of Kingambit as a sweeping threat and even surpasses it in some cases. Its absurd bulk, Ice-typing, and access to Ice Shard give it great utility as a revenge killer and attacker, espicially in this economy where fliers and dragons like Enamorus and Dragapult are everywhere. These traits also let it find easy set-up oppurtunities vs many targets. Compared to its S-Rank buddy, Kingambit, Baxcalibur is able to circumvent its way through most of the counterplay that Gambit can sometimes struggle with. Burns from Wisp simply don't work on it due to its ability. Its drastically higher speed tier + potentially Dragon Dance make it much harder to outrun, and contact punisher items & abilities have little effect on it due to most of its moves being non-contact. In general, most "counterplay" to Baxcalbur is extremely flimsy or one-time use like Booster IV Encore or Air Balloon Gholdengo / Gambit. The player fighting Baxcalibur needs to play this exhaustive dance of not using their Tera and / or preserving the aforementioned tools just to stand a chance to it, and Baxcalibur will typically be able to run away with the game since preserving these tools isn't sustainable across a prolonged battle. Its also got the added bonus of being an Ice-type, which will jack up its bulk to absurd levels when its buddy Slowking-G sets up its snow, to the point where Lando-T's U-turn won't even break its sub.

 

[658Greninja]

A+ > A: I think Enamorus is really good in the current meta, but I don’t think its as meta defining or versatile as the other A+ mons. Besides checking physical Valiant, Tusk, and its useful Dragon immunity, it doesn’t have as much defensive utility as the other offensive flying type Zapdos who can dodge its bad matchups with Volt Switch/U-Turn. Some meta developments like an increase of Moltres usage, Glowking being used more than ever due to Rain being bullshit. Specs sets are kinda bad rn, easily to play around with Glowking + Ground Immune and needing rocks off the field sucks. Scarf sets are slightly better due to Healing Wish support, but they are even easier to play around with bulkier builds and it still misses out on Booster Valiant, Moth, and Wake. And ofc it dies to Bax Ice Shard without Tera. The best set rn is Sub-CM or Taunt CM since it has the potential to beat Amoonguss and Glowking with Tera Steel, but it feels more reliant on Tera than other wincons/breakers like Bax. Imo its on the high end of A tier next to Samu and Cinder cause Sub-CM is still scary.

A- > A: Lando-T has been popping off lately and its imo underrated rn. Despite losing most of its utility, Intimidate + its typing checks several offensive threats while being a dangerous wallbreaker with Edgequake + GKnot. The forth moveslot can be whatever it wants, Rocks cause its been consistent at setting them up since Gen 5, Taunt to shut down fat and Ting-Lu Spike Stacking builds, Substitute to shit on Garg and make it more difficult to pivot into, U-Turn to be an effective pivot like its always been, and Protect cause why tf not. As a bonus, Tera Water helps teams combat the abundance of Rain and Bax, among other applications. Even if Lando is at low hp, sacking it to get the clutch Atk drop can make the difference between a win and a loss. Building in this tier is restricting, filling in the check boxes is way too difficult, so many teams resort to either running HO or Cinder BO teams, but Lando-T has the role compression and the offensive potency to be fill several of these boxes. Side note, SpD Lando should be explored more. Helps check Zapdos, Ghold, and Mixed Valiant while Intimidate still lends it solid physical bulk, similarly to Gen 9.

B+ > B: I might’ve made this nom already and it might be one of my favs from the new gen, but it still stands, Skeledirge just isn’t it anymore. Its the best Zama check in the tier and its a solid Cress check, but finding good Zama checks is not hard to find and Cress counterplay isn’t sparse either. Besides those two and Cinder, what does it actually check? Its a terrible Fairy check cause Enam 2HKOs with EP while Dirge doesn’t do jack shit back. Valiant just clicks Knock and removes its Boots, then locks it with Encore, beating it anyways. Dnite EQ 2HKOs it on the switch so if it misses Wisp or switches in directly, ggs. Defensively it has competition with Molt who can check most of the things it can but with less passivity and a better speed tier. Offensively its outclassed by Tran and Moth. Its more of a backup check than anything due to not being worn down throughout a game. On top of that, you have BB Gren, Wake, and Samu who are nightmarish for it to deal with, though in Samu’s case it can at least burn it or Tera, making it easier for Tusk to spin on it. It has some nice quirks like being able live an Adamant +5 SO Kowtow from Gambit, but I don’t think it is impactful enough to warrant the B+ ranking.

B > B+: Rain is broken great rn. Due part to its matchup with offense, Battle Bond Gren, and most water resists atm being either easy to chip down or is passive. Even in that case, Masculegion is a menace to society. Been testing out Mystic Water Mascu with Head Smash + Endeavor. Lets it destroy Volcanion and Bax while Endeavor lets it heavily cripple a bulky water resist before going down, synergizing well with Wave Crash’s recoil. Peli has access to Knock, giving those spike stacking rain teams a strong answer Boots Spam. This might be crazy but Peli might be worth testing out on non-Rain teams. Its the only OU mon with Knock + slow U-Turn + Ground Immunity. Has a good defensive typing and solid physical bulk, providing nice role compression. Even with only four turns of Rain, mons like Zapdos and Wake can make those four turns deadly. If people ran G-Terrain teams last gen without T-Extender, I see no reason to not explore Peli further.

B > B+: I might be the minority, but I think things are slowly working out for Chomp. The reason Chomp remains strong imo is Rough Skin. In an offensive metagame with countless physical sweepers, having a way to chip them down while doing something in return is invaluable on HO or BO. Chomp’s bulk and 102 speed tier also helps teams with the Zapdos, Non-Dgleam Moth, Dnite, and Ghold matchup. These traits combined give Chomp the role of a spike setter that can beat opposing spike setters, and Tusk with either Tankchomp or Chainchomp sets. Even if it isn’t as good as it was in past gens, I still haven’t given up on it.

C+ > B-: On the topic of weather, Brute Bonnet has been popping off on Vert Sun on Ladder and OLT/WCOP. Despite is awful typing, it lets it match up well into Ghold, Ting-Lu, Samu, and G-King while Spore punishes any potential switch ins. Unlike Amoonguss, its not hardwalled by Ghold which is a big plus.

D > C/C+: I already made a post and a rmt on it so for more of my thoughts on it, the links to those will be below. TL;DR, Gastro has a niche over Clod being a spike setting bulky ground type with a water immunity that doesn’t fear Tusk while also countering Sandy Shocks who often can break bulky teams no problem. It also isn’t weak to the occasional Psychic Fangs from Masculegion, and hits slightly harder than Clod, giving it a slightly better Ghold mu. I can’t rank it any higher since its still rather passive and has a 4mss but for ev spreads.

Replays will be provided through these links
https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9725338/

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/slugfest-gastro-hazard-stacking-bo-peak-1800.3725460/

 

[Napoli Burns]

A+ Rank -> S- Rank

one of the most meta defining pokemons, legendary coverage ground - ice, enough to sweep 90% of the tier. Also i am trying the variant ice body + aboma and even if it invalidates is S- rank status, since it counts as support is just another viable, strong set who let you run tera steel since you don't need to resist to the sucker punch of gambit and in case, u can always sub. It should be put in S- because the current pokemons under A+ are

Dragapult
Enamorus
Slowking-Galar
Ting-Lu
Zapdos

and none of them can sweep a team alone or support themselves simply by tera. Since icicle crash does not make contact, currently for me is a lot less rng dependant than valiant against the two birds with hax body. If put at the same level with pult, in every game pult needs to kill one if not, two checks (most of times gambit/ting/garg, even tusk and lando if dd) before doing anything. Bax is harder to check due to is coverage and a 120 bp move unleast you have

A- Rank -> A Rank

since is one of the only pokemon able to wall bax, is very common to find him and having 1 or 2 ways bypass his immense bulk + unaware is mandatory. Pure water alone as a typing is by far better than pure rock like garg and a lot better than old unaware king quagsire. Always like garg with curse, other than wall can be a win con. It lacks the immunity to status of garg but rest is mandatory since he does not learn other recovery moves.

A- Rank -> A Rank

Is near the level of xy talonflame or Ho-Oh for this gen, unfortunately no defog but can help to check so much threats without even needing tera.


Also

even if tera dependent in most matches imo has a lot more utility than most of B+ pokemons. Similar to dondo can wall and act like a win con because of broken stored power. Not calling for a raise right now but for me is a lot more closer to the level of heatran and lando-t, maybe a little borderline but they still offer unique things that other pokemons does not have. The current B+ tier has pokemon like glimmora, corv and skele, for me all outdated versions of stronger pokemons like samu and dondo. It will probably be outclassed by clefairy soon, who does not require tera poison or steel for the immunity to toxic and fairy is a lot better as a typing but i believe to see -A Cresselia before the DLC.

No need to post replays, both dondo and bax of got props by our beloved OU leader in the weekend

 

[Moyashi]

A+ -> S

Bax is easily on par with Gambit in terms of oppressive presence, and is extremely warping both in builder and in battle. It's highly versatile in this meta which makes it harder to handle and account for, which is something I think especially pushes it so far above everything else. One of the major things that makes bax so threatening, is that it has a much shorter list of long term checks and it's still capable of getting by those checks. We've seen people resort to air balloon steels, and booster energy mons to try and handle it which shows how limited checks really are. Swords dance sets qre arguably the most broken of its sets though all contribute to its influence.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I am not sure if this is the right place, but Baxcalibur should probably be considered for suspect test, now that we're done with Kingambit. It's long overdue, and while it merits being S rank due to reasons mentioned above, its also arguably broken.

 

[Eeveeto]

I am not sure if this is the right place, but Baxcalibur should probably be considered for suspect test, now that we're done with Kingambit. It's long overdue, and while it merits being S rank due to reasons mentioned above, its also arguably broken.

Not the right thread for it, though. I do agree with it deserving Suspect, but not with it being S Rank, it does not fit on that many structures and needs some support to work. A Mon does not need to be S Rank to be suspected.

 

[Lily]

Post-WCoP VR:

Nothing super notable here that's not on the standard VR - mons aren't ordered within their tier other than S and S-. I'll elaborate a little on some things that deviate heavily from the official VR;

at A- - I think Enam is a tough sell at A+. It's really easy to wall both Specs and Scarf sets between stuff like Glowking and Amoonguss being popular pivots, and the huge rise of Moltres and less huge rise of Corviknight doesn't do it any favours. Speed tier is good but awkward and offensive Fairy competition with Valiant is really high. I think it's overall just not as good as the A+ mons at all

at A - Just think pivot Meow is as good as it ever was, even better in some ways with more and more non-Booster Valiants showing up. Being able to outspeed all of Iron Valiant, Cinderace and Greninja (and actually switch into the latter once) is really valuable on such a progress-making machine.

at A- - Sun is just incredible and is literally all over the ladder while also being common towards the end of WCoP. I really like Scarf Cinderace sun, the Iron Moth sun that Vert made is also super dangerous.

at B+ - There is no way to defensively check this thing realistically outside of like Tera Fire Corviknight so it's just an incredibly important asset for sun. I would say it or Lilligant is mandatory and Brute tends to be better in my exp. so I rate it almost as high as Sun's viability as a whole.

at C - I didn't really bother with C vs C+ but Sciz would be C+ for whatever it's worth. I think it's decent and can really make some teams tick but it's certainly not on the level of mons that see much more usage like Scream Tail, Sandy Shocks, Slowking.

both at B - Could honestly stand to go higher, they're both fairly common on ladder and each have good advantages over the other. Basc's higher HP makes Wave Crash a lot more spammable and it makes the Volcanion MU more playable (notably extremely tough for Floatzel rain), while Floatzel is a better cleaner and has a better offense matchup. I used to think Floatzel was just better but I think they're pretty much interchangeable now depending on which of their specialised matchups you value more.

at C - Would also be C+ like Scizor but realistically this thing just doesn't get it done anymore, it's been struggling to find a place on screens / other general HO teams and it's not even used on Sun anymore rly. Far from unviable but certainly not a B+ mon

at B - Been getting a decent bit of ladder usage. Tinka's really cool for a lot of reasons, being a great check to a ton of mons and having a pretty fast Encore on top of Knock Off is just such high value against a crazy amount of teams. I find it much easier to fit than before because of how easily it checkmates offense. It can also switch into most of Baxcalibur's moves and KO it back after some chip while outspeeding which is almost unheard of.

at C - Speaking of fast Encore, he's pretty cool. Grafaiai makes offense hate its life when paired with obnoxious pivots that never die like Landorus, Rotom, Moltres, Slowkings. Those setup spam teams are always in a rough place when they can't click their setup moves safely on any turn. Has some very notable drawbacks, in that it's not super useful vs Kingambit or Tera Dark Iron Valiant, but you can build around those fairly easily; Moltres is a really good partner. Spreading obnoxious Knock Offs is also really good and Prankster Parting Shot is great. Far from an amazing mon but it's definitely useable. McMeghan back me up...

at C - Oh boy here we go. Probably hyperbole to some extent but I truly can't see much of a use for this mon in the current meta. My main issue with Heatran is that it doesn't check much of anything well. In theory it walls Moltres but you just get U-turned on and they bring in something like Bax for the most free setup of all time. Cinderace can't do much but again just pivots out, and if it has a Fighting move it's el wrappo. Non-Tera Ground Iron Moth is walled which is great. It sorta semi checks Dragapult and Gholdengo but those mons are almost always paired with Spikes and the two most common Spikers abuse the hell out of Heatran anyway. And that's not even getting into shit like the Garg matchup. It's so hazard vulnerable, doesn't check more than a couple mons that aren't super relevant anyway... even its theoretical best matchup in Sun is scary because of how freely it gets abused by Walking Wake. It can be decently threatening when it gets on the field and it's not impossible to get it there by any means but it's like, what are you using it for? I struggle to answer that question a lot these days.

at B - I think these guys are pretty good, they've been cooking a bit on ladder. Not all that much Helmet usage these days and like yeah Moltres and Zapdos are unfortunate but if they're sacking themselves to you then it's probably a good trade for you all things considered. Fast and dangerous, overall pretty good. Tera Fire is worth trying.

And now a quickfire round on some mons that are currently unranked but imo are useable:

is a decent Zapdos check, gets em up, can trade with stuff like Bax, and is more annoying to switch into than you'd think. Needs Ice Beam / Surf to hit Tusk, though.

is actually fairly threatening with Calm Mind + Tera Steel. You'd be surprised how many teams can't really break it.

is a decent-ish Defogger that beats Gholdengo or at least forces it to Tera, which can be useful for some structures. It's also a workable Kingambit, Garganacl, and Meowscarada check, and it hard walls Hisuian Samurott - good traits overall.

is pretty good on rain thanks to its speed and Weather Ball giving it a solid niche over Zapdos.

with Bulk Up + Covert Cloak can out-tank and snowball through a decent amount of teams.

with Icy Rock Glowking is actually really threatening, only truly being checked by Dondozo. Not as hard as you'd think to get a Belly Drum off against stuff like Tusk and Bax (snow boost means you actually kinda wall).

when paired with Tornadus swept me on ladder a couple times

is a decently threatening wallbreaker that can leverage its typing and Intimidate to get turns on Baxcalibur, Great Tusk, Kingambit and Hisuian Samurott. I have had decent success with it on ladder using both Choice Band and Bulk Up with Wish Scream Tail.

 

[Srn]

Post-WCoP VR:

Nothing super notable here that's not on the standard VR - mons aren't ordered within their tier other than S and S-. I'll elaborate a little on some things that deviate heavily from the official VR;

at A- - I think Enam is a tough sell at A+. It's really easy to wall both Specs and Scarf sets between stuff like Glowking and Amoonguss being popular pivots, and the huge rise of Moltres and less huge rise of Corviknight doesn't do it any favours. Speed tier is good but awkward and offensive Fairy competition with Valiant is really high. I think it's overall just not as good as the A+ mons at all

at A - Just think pivot Meow is as good as it ever was, even better in some ways with more and more non-Booster Valiants showing up. Being able to outspeed all of Iron Valiant, Cinderace and Greninja (and actually switch into the latter once) is really valuable on such a progress-making machine.

at A- - Sun is just incredible and is literally all over the ladder while also being common towards the end of WCoP. I really like Scarf Cinderace sun, the Iron Moth sun that Vert made is also super dangerous.

at B+ - There is no way to defensively check this thing realistically outside of like Tera Fire Corviknight so it's just an incredibly important asset for sun. I would say it or Lilligant is mandatory and Brute tends to be better in my exp. so I rate it almost as high as Sun's viability as a whole.

at C - I didn't really bother with C vs C+ but Sciz would be C+ for whatever it's worth. I think it's decent and can really make some teams tick but it's certainly not on the level of mons that see much more usage like Scream Tail, Sandy Shocks, Slowking.

both at B - Could honestly stand to go higher, they're both fairly common on ladder and each have good advantages over the other. Basc's higher HP makes Wave Crash a lot more spammable and it makes the Volcanion MU more playable (notably extremely tough for Floatzel rain), while Floatzel is a better cleaner and has a better offense matchup. I used to think Floatzel was just better but I think they're pretty much interchangeable now depending on which of their specialised matchups you value more.

at C - Would also be C+ like Scizor but realistically this thing just doesn't get it done anymore, it's been struggling to find a place on screens / other general HO teams and it's not even used on Sun anymore rly. Far from unviable but certainly not a B+ mon

at B - Been getting a decent bit of ladder usage. Tinka's really cool for a lot of reasons, being a great check to a ton of mons and having a pretty fast Encore on top of Knock Off is just such high value against a crazy amount of teams. I find it much easier to fit than before because of how easily it checkmates offense. It can also switch into most of Baxcalibur's moves and KO it back after some chip while outspeeding which is almost unheard of.

at C - Speaking of fast Encore, he's pretty cool. Grafaiai makes offense hate its life when paired with obnoxious pivots that never die like Landorus, Rotom, Moltres, Slowkings. Those setup spam teams are always in a rough place when they can't click their setup moves safely on any turn. Has some very notable drawbacks, in that it's not super useful vs Kingambit or Tera Dark Iron Valiant, but you can build around those fairly easily; Moltres is a really good partner. Spreading obnoxious Knock Offs is also really good and Prankster Parting Shot is great. Far from an amazing mon but it's definitely useable. McMeghan back me up...

at C - Oh boy here we go. Probably hyperbole to some extent but I truly can't see much of a use for this mon in the current meta. My main issue with Heatran is that it doesn't check much of anything well. In theory it walls Moltres but you just get U-turned on and they bring in something like Bax for the most free setup of all time. Cinderace can't do much but again just pivots out, and if it has a Fighting move it's el wrappo. Non-Tera Ground Iron Moth is walled which is great. It sorta semi checks Dragapult and Gholdengo but those mons are almost always paired with Spikes and the two most common Spikers abuse the hell out of Heatran anyway. And that's not even getting into shit like the Garg matchup. It's so hazard vulnerable, doesn't check more than a couple mons that aren't super relevant anyway... even its theoretical best matchup in Sun is scary because of how freely it gets abused by Walking Wake. It can be decently threatening when it gets on the field and it's not impossible to get it there by any means but it's like, what are you using it for? I struggle to answer that question a lot these days.

at B - I think these guys are pretty good, they've been cooking a bit on ladder. Not all that much Helmet usage these days and like yeah Moltres and Zapdos are unfortunate but if they're sacking themselves to you then it's probably a good trade for you all things considered. Fast and dangerous, overall pretty good. Tera Fire is worth trying.

And now a quickfire round on some mons that are currently unranked but imo are useable:

is a decent Zapdos check, gets em up, can trade with stuff like Bax, and is more annoying to switch into than you'd think. Needs Ice Beam / Surf to hit Tusk, though.

is actually fairly threatening with Calm Mind + Tera Steel. You'd be surprised how many teams can't really break it.

is a decent-ish Defogger that beats Gholdengo or at least forces it to Tera, which can be useful for some structures. It's also a workable Kingambit, Garganacl, and Meowscarada check, and it hard walls Hisuian Samurott - good traits overall.

is pretty good on rain thanks to its speed and Weather Ball giving it a solid niche over Zapdos.

with Bulk Up + Covert Cloak can out-tank and snowball through a decent amount of teams.

with Icy Rock Glowking is actually really threatening, only truly being checked by Dondozo. Not as hard as you'd think to get a Belly Drum off against stuff like Tusk and Bax (snow boost means you actually kinda wall).

when paired with Tornadus swept me on ladder a couple times

is a decently threatening wallbreaker that can leverage its typing and Intimidate to get turns on Baxcalibur, Great Tusk, Kingambit and Hisuian Samurott. I have had decent success with it on ladder using both Choice Band and Bulk Up with Wish Scream Tail.

What is the rationale for greninja at B+? In my eyes, it is 2x more threatening than something like sandy shocks.

I also personally find Ting-Lu to be an A+ mon, I'm surprised you have it that low. It's stupid bulk is one thing, but I find it is so difficult to stop it from making progress too between things like ruination, stone edge, eq, heavy slam all being offensive options. Just from a teambuilding perspective, what sturdy ruination swap in is there? Regen slowbro and torn-t both suck lol, zapdos/moltres can get stone edge'd, and corv is forced to roost or stay at half.

Meow is good, but with static zapdos and flame body moltres being so common, I find that the pivot sets (best sets) must often choose between heavy duty boots and protective pads, which is a choice I hate making. Personally have this guy at A-

Otherwise cool list :] didn't rank arboliva tho 0/10

EDIT: Quick one-liner response to below

some of the stuff it's supposd to counter actually ends up being able to deal with it long-term like Zapdos, Pult, etc.

Nothing deals with anything long-term in gen9 lmaoo just end the battle faster

 

[Lily]

What is the rationale for greninja at B+? In my eyes, it is 2x more threatening than something like sandy shocks.

Now that I look at it again I think you're right, I'm kinda grasping at straws for reasons to not have it in A-. I do think it's a little inconsistent but it's much more threatening as a cleaner than most stuff so yea you're right, it should be A-.

I also personally find Ting-Lu to be an A+ mon

I flip flop on Ting-Lu a lot. I find it kinda hard to build teams with it that don't have pacing issues, and fitting all the moves you want is really hard. I was mostly ranking it off the standard hazard/EQ/Ruination/Whirlwind set, which I think struggles to last long enough to have much impact and forces you to play in awkward ways around Tusk unless you're using Balloon Ghold which isn't always a great fit since those teams kinda want Cloak a lot of the time. I've seen the offensive sets that you & stresh have both talked a lot about and I think they're pretty good actually, although I do find it hard to fit a hazard on them while retaining the coverage you want.

It could probably be one higher ultimately - on par with stuff like Wake/Zama feels fine to me. The thing that keeps it out of A+ for me is that some of the stuff it's supposd to counter actually ends up being able to deal with it long-term like Zapdos, Pult, etc. and finding backup checks to those mons is kinda hard because Ting-Lu + Glowking is even more tough against Tusk than usual.

As for switching into Ruination. you're right that it can be really difficult. You do have some decently solid options though, like Moltres, Amoonguss, Tera Grass Glowking and to some extent Rotom-W. Also Torn-T is actually pretty good, I ran into Sub NP a few times and it was super hard to deal with.

Meow is good, but with static zapdos and flame body moltres being so common, I find that the pivot sets (best sets) must often choose between heavy duty boots and protective pads, which is a choice I hate making. Personally have this guy at A-

This is true and def the biggest problem of being a primarily contact attacker but if you're gonna hit them with any contact move it's good that it's Knock Off. I don't mind A- though, I just think it should definitely be out of the Bs.

didn't rank arboliva tho 0/10

I actually do think this is viable but I forgot it existed pretend it's in D

 

[658Greninja]

I ran into Sub NP a few times and it was super hard to deal with.

So you don’t run Zapdos?

 

[Finchinator]

So you don’t run Zapdos?

Depending on the coverage or Tera type, this can be worked around

 

[sims796]

Oh God, we talking about Arboliva? Hell yeah! I've been playing around with it since before the DLC, and I love it!

Rillaboom reclaimed it's spot as the terrain setter, but Arbo can afford to be very stingy with it since it practically never leaves while it's up. You can take full advantage of not needing Leftovers for things like Grassy Seed, HDB, and my favorite (as of right this moment) Assault Vest Mirror Coat.

P. Kush (Arboliva) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Seed Sower
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Mirror Coat
- Earth Power
- Tera Blast

This is the set that I've been playing with. You need to get her in health, and of course, Mirror Coat is very prediction reliant. But answer me this: what self respecting player would pass up the chance to click Hurricane? Being able to instantly one shot - or at least severely cripple - after only taking 40% on what should be a guaranteed loss on your end is a hoot.

(Ironically, Hurricane is a hit or miss to reflect since, more than the confuse chance, you'llactually regret having it miss).

Gholdengo? Please. Unless it's Trick, in which case who cares, what's it gonna do? Shadow Ball does nothing, and Make it Rain will backfire hard. And if you mispredict and they get a NP out of it? Tera Fire (I try to make my teams tera flexible). Now you can survive the inevitable MiR, but you probably don't even have to click Mirror Coat anymore. Earth Power can be replaced by Dazzling Gleam. I need more practice, but you should be able to take on who you want with Mirror Coat alone - Earth Power kicks Heatrans ass, but so does a reflected Magma Storm. Dazzling Gleam can help with Bax who likes switching in.

I wish I saved replays, but I'm too stoned to bother looking them up.

Arbo can do so much, it's a shame on how it can't quite keep up with OU threats, but I'd wager it's a hellhound in the lower tiers. Slow, but so many forms of recovery at the opponent's expense, a flashy move pool, and a natural abuser of Tera.


Edit: Also, shout out to Mirror Coat Alomamola. It preys on Volt switchers with some Sp.D investments, as it can one shot the switch.

I haven't used it since pre patch so I dunno how it fares, but I'm gonna toss it out there.

 

[Magcargo]

-> B / B-

Man this mon SUCKS. I'll admit, it has some really good qualities, like acting as a nice switch-in to Walking Wake, Battle bond Greninja, certain Valiant varients, as well as CM Stored Power Cheese sweepers. However, it is so passive and exploitable, that you are basically begging the opponent to send in their Kingambit, Sub Baxcalibur, Trick Gholdengo etc and exert free pressure. Because of all the strong Steels and Poisons, it ironically has to make a lot of 50 / 50s to deal any damage with Infestation or Toxic, only unlike something like Walking Wake, the most you are getting is an extremely tiny amount of Chip damage that will likely not matter as the opponent recovers all their health back with Leftovers + gets free turns to do whatever they want (esp in Gambit and Dengo's case). That Infestation / Toxic / Haze / Recover set is really really bad since it is bait for all the big threats in the metagame like Sub Bax, Sub Wake, Sub Enam, Encore Valiant, any Gholdengo or Gambit variant, etc. Sub Iron Moth in particular is extremely nasty since it can't do anything to it. You have to make hard reads and double switches to your own Booster Valiant in order to take advantage of these mons setting up with Encore, which isn't good since you are sacrificing your Booster early. Some other mons like Gren might also randomly tech Switcheroo and make this mon even more useless than it already is lmao. IDK, maybe this is an overreaction and other sets aren't as bad as the one I used, but this metagame seems far more hostile to Pex than it was in the past.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Not the right thread for it, though. I do agree with it deserving Suspect, but not with it being S Rank, it does not fit on that many structures and needs some support to work. A Mon does not need to be S Rank to be suspected.

I was thinking more of S- than S, since I don't think it's on the level of Tusk. Still insane though

 

[McMeghan]

Hello everyone. Much like Lily, I wanted to post my VRs after this recent WCoP that I enjoyed a lot. I haven't liked an OU like this in forever, and since I watched a ton of games and played it quite a bit myself in recent months, now's the perfect time to post a recap of my vision of the tier before it takes a new direction with the upcoming DLC.

Fyi, the Pokemons aren't ranked within the tiers themselves. I will just post what I feel like is worth highlighting and won't bother with the very obvious stuff.

Tusk is without a doubt the best Pokémon in the tier in my mind. Insanely good offensive and defensive profile and useful at every moment of the game. I think SR is pretty bad on it and the 4 Atk/Bulk Up sets are vastly superior. I also find it hard to not run Rock coverage atm because you don't wanna be Zapdos/Moltres food.

Gholdengo has a broken ability and is maybe the second most customizable Polemon of the tier after Valiant. The bulky sets with NP Recover, especially Tera Fairy have been polarizing recently. There is a set that fits any team though. Obvious and great synergy with HRott for Offense and TingLu for Balance.

Gambit needs no introduction. I do believe it's very reliant on Tera to be as good as it is. And I don't mean it needs to Tera to be this good, but you really want Tera to be on the table to use it to its full potential. It's imo the best Tera abuser in the tier. Its bulk is amazing and is one of the best offensive check to many Pokemons, especially Bax in the midgame. Its biggest flaw is that it wanna stay healthy for the late game, and it's not that good early on, which makes it a bit awkward to use at time. Big fan of max speed Low Kick because it handles both Gambit and Dondozo in the late game.

Baxcalibur is the best wallbreaker in the tier. Nothing switches on it safely and it's very good at forcing early defensive Tera against Balance . All its sets are good imo and it can fit into most teams. However it often only has one shot at doing its job and you need to find the right window of opportunity to use it. But in the right hands, it's always a very strong option. I think the Pokemon is Suspect worthy without a doubt. Tera Dragon Glaive Rush is legit not fair, and Tera Fairy is pretty insane to create set up oppurtinities while staying healthy and barely fearing any OHKO back.

All the A+ Pokemons are very good game in and out and you will never go wrong using them. A few notes:

Not much to say about Zapdos except it's solid and good.

HRott is incredible. Early Ceaseless Edge spam isn't all that when most Pokemons nowadays are wearing Boots or are paired with Tusk/Cinderace, but the SD and Knock Off/Taunt sets are both very good depending on what playstyle you're trying to target with them.

Cinderace has a very nice defensive profile, effectively giving you an offensive Gambit check on a fast momentum machine. Court Change is one of the best move in the tier because it protects you against Screens and gives you amazing counterplay against Hrott/Tinglu. Uturn is hella dropable btw because I think all of WoW/CourtChange/Fighting coverage are overall more clutch.

Dragapult is very good and would be S tier no doubt to me if Garganacl didn't exist.

TingLu has Uber level stats and is incredible imo. The best thing to keep in mind is that spamming hazards is rarely super worth it imo. I think Ruination+EQ is strong early game to get great chip against key targets like Tusk. The more offensive sets are also quite good and it has a lot of underrated versatility (all of Taunt, Stone Edge, Heavy Slam, Protect, Rest are strong for example). It also never ever dies to anything so it's pretty much a free get out of jail ticket to get the game started.

Valiant is weird to me because I don't really rate the set up sets as I think they're too Tera reliant to work. Not that they're bad, because Valiant has probably the biggest "bullshit" factor of the tier as an offensive mon, but they're not consistent and I think its too easily stopped by Flying/Poison mons without the Tera option. However, Valiant still has an amazing profile regardless imo, and the best sets will make use of Encore/Dbond/Taunt. It's also one of the best offensive check to late game Gambit.

From then on, for every subrank, the Pokemons get less consistent but remain viable of course. I will say here that the best performers are in A and above. Starting B+, I think the Pokemons become quite flawed but are still great when used to their strenghs. A- is the middle ground of that. I will leave some notes on the individual Pokemons below.

LandoT is very solid. I think the offensive sets are quite good and I like double Ground structures in general (Tusk+TingLu or Tusk+LandoT).

Zamazenta has a ton of good options between all the coverage, Iron Defense and Howl. Bordering on A+.

Garganacl is extremely obnoxious but imo all the non-Curse sets are bad. However Curse works alongside all of EQ/Block/Protect/SR. This Pokemon can command games like no other if it doesn't face the appropriate counterplay (aka a Covert Cloak user).

Dire Claw is fucked up.

Enamorus feels hard to rank. I think it has a pretty weird profile. I don't really rate the choice sets anymore because Poisons and Moltres are ubiquitous. It also very quickly loses its defensive assets after one or two switches into Rocks. Tusk running coverage for Zap/Moltres also often hurt it. However the CM sets are great and it's the most viable Healing Wisher of the tier which is great for many Pokemons. Bordering on A-.

Dondozo has ridiculous stats + ability combo and has Uber tier level of bulk. I think it has the biggest flaws of the highly ranked Pokemons but is way too good in the appropriate conditions, which is honestly just a solid defensive backbone and making sure you don't have to switch it into Knock Tusk early. The Curse sets can also be consistent win conditions.

Walking Wake is Uber tier in Sun and people underrated it for way too long until Vert optimized a good Sun team with it.

Slowking weakness to Uturn/Volt Switch sucks but the Water resistance and lack of Ground weakness makes it quite worthwile in this Sun infested meta. Watch out for Specs Enamorus though.

Torkoal is this high because Suns are in general a strong and pretty consistent playstyle as of late.

Amoonguss is very solid but suffers from Ghold popularity.

Hatto has a great combo of 6-0ing Sweeper + Healing Wish utility. Enables some cheesy structures very well.

Meowscarada has a profile similar to Cinderace except you trade Court Change for Knock Off progress. The birds are annoying though (Protective Pads is a solid option as a result), and Uturn may be droppable/should be explored because it has a ton of cool moves. CB Tera Rock is barely counterable if you predict well.

For the Pokemons below, I will only leave personal remarks when I feel like it:

Not a fan of Iron Moth outside of Sun but it's an absolute menace there and gets to have the best of both world between extra Fire stab and +1 Speed from Booster.

Skeledirge feels broken in the right conditions but its quite awkward to use because the Slack Off PPs go by too quick, and it's also a pain to chose an item and the 2 moves.

Alolan Muk feels underrated for how much disruption it causes by itself without much support.

Cresselia always disappointed me unless it was Tera Fight. Having issues into late game Gambit is awful.

Volcanion has a sick defensive profile and it's hard to switch into strong water stab this gen.

Tinkaton is a lot more consistent than it seems. Pickpocket Air Baloon is very good to cripple Tusk early, meanwhile Mold Breaker Encore is an instant ownage of a lot of cheesy teams. Knock Off + Encore is always useful game in and game out. I advice to run Speed so it can act as a Bax check too.

Sandy Shocks is overrated as fuck. I think it's quite bad outside of Sun because it feels quite reliant on pulling its Tera early to be truely threatening, which is rarely a good play. Hazards are also overrated on Offense when you could just click offensive moves.

Brute Bonnet has felt really amazing on Sun and has no true counter with Tera Fire. Just a bit awkward to use because the Sun needs to be up and you have annoying weaknesses pre and post-Tera but one of Sun's strongest soldier for sure.

Aurora Veil is strong and Aboma can pull off a nice Specs set too.

This Pokemon legit feels terrible to use in this meta. Too many natural stops especially if you can't Tera. And you need to hit to get mileage out of it too.

Feels like it has a nice potential to break balance early with QD sets or pull off a Brute Bonnet-esque role with more speed on Sun. Sleep Powder is the play there by the way.

Honestly doesnt really feel worth it without the Shed Tail support as a DDer, and choice sets are alright at best in Sun.

Priority Encore/Parting Shot + defensive Pokemons with pivoting moves (Uturn/Volt/Chilly) can really lock some game routes. Knock Off is also a constant progress maker when you get free turns. Honestly a neat little Pokemon that is way better than it looks.

All those Pokemons I think are worth using or have shown to be viable but I haven't played with them myself enough to rank them. Some are definitely better than other too in this list.

 

[sims796]

I wanna nominate Drifblim somewhere on the Cs. It's so...anti-meta. It's also my favorite of the Unburden mons. Unburden let's it outspeed almost everything that doesn't also have its speed doubled, and it's the slowest of all speed doublers I believe, but yeah, you're fast. It has multiple sets even seen here to trigger it, between Weakness Policy and XXX Seed, and I wanna give a special shoutout to the one I've been using:

Purple Haze (Drifblim) @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Fighting/Ghost
EVs: 252 Def / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Strength Sap
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp/Tera Blast

Pretty much a variation from the Grassy Terrain Drifim set from the Teams of the Week thread.

It can tear unprepared teams apart nearly single handledly. I feel it's the best user of Grassy Seed out of Lucha and Sneasler as it has a decent enough defensive stats with massive HP, a very wide disruptive movepool, reliable healing, and the ability to boost your main offense amd both defenses. Tera Fighting was the move on the original set, and it allows you to snipe Kinggambit that will inevitably come in on you, but makes you tera-stingy and I'm not the biggest fan of that. Will o Wisp is my move of choice, as it turns Kinggamnit and sooo many others into set up opportunities,and makes it a team player, but now you're weak to Normal types, Dragonite in particular.

This is just a taste of what it can eat

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 4 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. +1 0 HP / 252 Def Grassy Seed Drifblim: 372-438 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think that's significant for a Ghost type, let alone a mon capable of not only healing right back from it to full, but lowering your offense in the process! And can burn immediately after (or before if you wanna gamble). Without Leftovers, you can lliterally burn Kingambit to death whilst you sneak in Calm Minds. Enough and your opponent must forfeit. It also preys on Great Tusk, Baxcalibur (especially if you go Tera Fighting,), Sneasler (careful for hax) even Enamorous becomes a set up opportunity if it has Contrary, especially if it's Scarfed of CM but no physical attacks.

And it can Defog! And T Wave! And explode!

Not sure how to upload downloaded replay is off of my phone.

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

So D tier isn't a "meme pick" tier that I once thought it was? I believed that in the past, D ranking was just that, mons that are OU by usage but are just...bad. They weren't even allowed to be spoken about.

From what it looks like now, it seems like this tier can at least get things done, like a super niche pick.

Am I correct in that assessment?

Late response but D tier in OU at least is a replacement for c-, so everything there is viable if you squint hard enough.

Since there's no unviable OU in OU right now, the old D tier is gone for the moment.