Taillow and Rattata(not the evolved forms - Actually good in standard?

[Enzyme]

Yeah, I sound insane, but I think they could work on their movepool alone. Already posted the moveset on gamefaqs.

Taillow@Focus Sash
252 attack IVs, -speed + attack nature
~Endeavor
~Quick attack
~Swagger
~Whirlwind

Takes people completel;y by surprise, takes little effort to get(you barely need to level it), and owns choice band users.

Imagine the look on peoples faces when they see this:

Aerodactyl/Weavile/CGmence/anything that will attack used a strong attacking move!
Taillow hung on with focus sash!
Taillow used Endeavor!(both have 1 HP)
Taillow used quick attack! Choice bander fainted!

Works great. If they try to set up on you(like a gyarados with DD), you have whirlwind, if they use a ghost, try using swagger >_> Ghosts are one thing this thing cant handle, but its mostly a counter pokemon to counter like most of whats in the metagame. People won't expect it, either, and it does what its supposed to awesomely. You also get the right to laugh at them for owning them with a taillow.

I'll be using one, personally, it handles most of the major threats in the metagame great, and it's a ****ing taillow.

Also,

Rattata@Focus sash
252 attack EVs
~Endeavor
~Quick attack
~Taunt
~Thunder wave

Same basic idea. Taunt things that will try to set up on you. Only raticate gets roar. Thunder wave for ghosts, then run(or just switch into something that can handle the ghosts).

These can handle

Infernape
Garchomp
Rhyperior
Gyarados
Lucario
Azelf
Electivire
Heracross
Salamence
And really anything that attacks.

Ghosts own you, and if theres any form of spikes, they own you, as well as most status moves, but its mostly a choice bander counter. It works damn well for Rattata/Taillow.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Use Phanphy with Ice Shard over Quick Attack. That way you are immune to sandstorms which would otherwise ruin you, and it's at least possible for you to damage ghosts, though I doubt a level 1 Phanphy is going to be doing much.

 

[KevlarX290]

You should put Sucker Punch in Rattata's moveset for Ghost types.

 

[Nolando VII]

You should put Sucker Punch in Rattata's moveset for Ghost types.

Although I dont see this doing much coming from rattata...

 

[massi4h]

Wow I can actually see me using Lv 1 Phanpy in Local Tournaments, especially if they have no level 100 balance. Since my local tournaments have time limits I'm almost guaranteed to kill their first lead unless they use a raising move then attack the turn I try and roar although their HP will drop heaps from my first Endeavor. And since the rules are time limited I could stall with SkarmBlissDuskWhatever and win 6-5.

Mr. Enzyme you are awesome for thinking outside the box like this lots of credit to you, and also AA for taking your idea and using it to create phanpy to hit ghosts. I like the fact that this can kill a pokemon even at level 1 which could result in being more handy than level 100 since you can still dramatically drop their hp if they raise a stat and then you can predict when to switch out to something faster than them or a QAer.

Yeah just saw sucker punch is awesome. Rattata is now a candidate. And afai-remember nothing resists dark meaning this can beat sheddy which phanpy can't do. Since Phanpy has a filler it could work as something like Stealth Rock or Toxic. So say if it's best of 3 and they know your strategy it can give you a free turn for a stealth rock.

Also just realised this really needs to be a starter or come in after a fainting, can't switch in anything obviously.


No Rattata wins because it gets pursuit, so if they know your strategy and wanna switch after you endeavor them pursuit will get them.

and a quick question: does endeavor hit ghosts in DP?

 

[Deck Knight]

TRAINER used Hippowdon/Tyranitar/Abomasnow/Any Ghost/Leftovers/A status move/A recovery move!

Strategy failed!

QA only works in these instances when your foe has only 1 HP. If it recovers anything, anything at all this strategy is wasted. It is also weak to other QAers and Sandstorm/Hail.

This gimmick has already been posted a couple of times. Not only does it have essentially the same weaknesses as Sub/Endversal but a Lv1 pokemon is otherwise useless.

 

[X-Act]

Umm, but wouldn't they obviously get down to 1HP because of Endeavor and Focus Sash? I'm seeing this work all the time as a lead, except:

1) The opponent's lead decides not to attack you.
2) The opponent's lead is a Ghost.
3) The opponent's lead is Tyranitar/Hippowdon/Abomasnow.

That said, you need to make sure that Quick Attack does enough damage to offset Leftovers. So I wouldn't go with a Level 1 Pokemon.

 

[K to the Y]

doesn't endeavor active before lefties recovery? therefore it will not work with pogeys with lefties

 

[Deck Knight]

Umm, but wouldn't they obviously get down to 1HP because of Endeavor and Focus Sash? I'm seeing this work all the time as a lead, except:

1) The opponent's lead decides not to attack you.
2) The opponent's lead is a Ghost.
3) The opponent's lead is Tyranitar/Hippowdon/Abomasnow.

That said, you need to make sure that Quick Attack does enough damage to offset Leftovers. So I wouldn't go with a Level 1 Pokemon.

I'm mostly fine with the concept, its more the "OMG I can own a whole team with Lv1's!" stuff that annoys me.

That being said, I don't ever think this will catch on. If you use L1's in serious play, you've basically just given your strategy away. If you use Lv100's, you've got to bank on your opponent being a strong attacker. You'd really have to find a happy medium level, maybe 85, to have any chance of pulling this off without your pokemon representing a gimmick in an empty slot.

The first weakness is that your FS pokemon can't switch in to anything, and is basically forced to be your lead since any form of Spikes ruins this off the bat without Wish support.

The second weakness is it relies totally on prediction. Lets say you see Mence out, and think it is CS or CB. Then it Dragon Dances on you and you Endeavor. Basically, you've just played your hand. Mence knows you have Endeavor, can probably figure out your strategy if you're leading with something like Raticate, and it can basically DD with impunity until you either switch, or it outpredicts you by attacking while you do something like QA or Thunder Wave. Either way, the odds are stacked in Mence's favor. DD has more PP than Endeavor, letting it DD up is dangerous if it out-predicts you, and in general DDMence has Leftovers, so your ship may be sunk to begin with.

Oh, one more thing:

Lv1 Smeargle @ Focus Sash
~ Endeavor
~ Bullet Punch
~ Dragon Rage
~ Pursuit

Truly evil. Lv1 Smeargle has 12 HP. Even if something doesn't attack it, after Lefties they're still probably only at 37 or so. Nail them with Dragon Rage.

 

[Picollo]

this idea might work under a trick room a lot better..

 

[Chozo]

this idea might work under a trick room a lot better..

Problem with Trick Room is that you have to get it up, and then switch in your Taillow/Rattata without it being knocked out. Too much risk for too little reward, IMO.

 

[X-Act]

Well, not only that. There's also the fact that the most you're doing is trading a Pokemon with one of the opponent's, which is hardly game-breaking.

Level 1 Pokemon won't work, by the way. The damage that Quick Attack does by Level 1 Pokemon is 1. So against Leftovers Pokemon, this won't work at all.

I think a Level 100 Smeargle using this strategy would work better.

 

[CZ]

I could see this working with a Level 100 Smeargle

Smeargle@ Focus Sash
Hasty Nature
EV's 252 Attacl, 252 Speed
Set Both Defense IV's to 0, so it will almost always be to one HP in one hit
-Endeavor
-Extremespeed
-Dragon Rage
-Spore

It wont work with a Sandstream, Hail or any other indirect damage, but it can get one KO, and hopefull put another poke to sleep.Its basically the same idea as the Endure/Spore/Endeavor/Seismic Toss from advance, just a little different.

 

[Amelia]

Donphan @ Focus Sash
(+ Spd, - SpD)
Evs (Max Speed, Max Attack, 4 Sp.Attack)
Ivs: Set HP, Def and SP.Def to 0

-Endeavour
-Ice Pebble
-Endure
-Earthquake

Immune to sandstorm lol. Endeavour someone when focus sash activates, ice pebble him, and endeavour the 2nd. You've just taken out 2 pokemons!

 

[Best]

The Problem is actually when someone's using a slower Pokemon like Slowbro your strategy is quite ruined...
And certainly against Pokemon that won't OHKO you, Focus Sash becomes useless

 

[Sir Spanky]

Using a sandstorm immune pogey with sandstream support is the best idea.

Pokemon attack and focus sash works
Phanpy used Endeavour
Enemy Pokemon dies to sandstream

etc.

 

[Synre]

I remember seeing a few Endeavor teams on the bots(drdan's being the first one to come to mind)... I think seeing them work was probably my 3rd favorite way to see a match be won(losing out to like BPing to Luvdisc and Pikachu/Clamperl teams!), but I don't think I ever saw it work against the really good players. It's a little easier to execute now since you can use the Focus Sash instead of Endure, but I still can't see it working reliably - there a few major problems in the fact that it's not that difficult to counter if your opponent figures out what you are doing, and that as a whole the pokemon who use it aren't really used for anything else so it's normally completely obvious when you are going to use it.

The handful of exceptions to that last statement like Donphan and Smeargle could make it work I guess but it's just another gimmick.

 

[Surgo]

It doesn't work so well as the OP posted unless the person you're fighting doesn't have leftovers because Quick Attack is going to be dealing 1 damage. You need a Weavile or Tyranitar to run ghost cleanup duty too...that's the first thing I'd switch to if I saw a level 1 against me.

Phanpy with a Sandstorm does it much better, seeing as how it's immune to Sandstorm and the Sandstorm can then kill the opponent. Anything with Dragon Rage (only Smeargle) is super, but needs help surviving (DT passing). Something could be worked out with Trick Room maybe.

You could do this in Advance with DT, and no one did. I don't really wonder why.

 

[Misch]

Isn't this concept kind of old? I remember a post on Gamefaqs or somewhere months ago featuring a level 1 Rattata with Focus Sash and endeavor / qa / sucker punch. The Phanpy set has also been mentioned a couple of times.

Anyways, as we haven't had discussion about this for a while, graz for bumping up the concept. I'm definitely going to try a lvl 1 smeargle lead in my Trick Room team.

Smeargle (Level 1) ** Hopes High
@ Focus Sash
Nature and EVs don't really matter.
- Spore
- Trick Room
- Dragon Rage
- Endeavor

Status effects are really the only thing that stops it from setting up Trick Room and it'll probably cause even more havoc, unless your opponent is leading with Tyranitar.

Figured out the set myself when I saw the lvl1 Rattata set, though I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who did...

 

[Pokézoni]

ANY pokemon with a Quick Attack, Fake Out or a multiple hit attack, sandstorm, hail will ruin this strategy... the reason why not too many people use it is most likely because when it DOES work, it gives you a slight advantage, but where it doesn't work, you've COMPLETELY wasted a team slot.

Even Trick Room teams try to have value outside of trick room. This may be more plausible as Focus Sash indeed helps the setup, but I can't see too many people revolving a team around one, let alone getting very far once people know you have it.

 

[Enzyme]

Well, I was planning on the rattata/Taillow being leve,l 100 thanks tot he level balance, not one. AT level one endeavor wouldnt even do enough, since it goes by percents of HP AFAIK. With 252 attack EVs, it'll be able to kill anything even after leftovers, unless they have a 4x resist or REALLY good defense(rhyperior Might barely survive). And the main thing is good for is getting rid of the popular leads.

Phanphy is a nice idea, though.

 

[megamanac]

You're also forgetting status. Common ones, burn, toxic, even parahax stops you. Even leech seed stops it.

There are too many things that can counter, which is kind of like shedinja.

 

[Enzyme]

As I said in my first post, status moves screw you too. Thing is, most leads dont use status, they're usually CBs or sweepers, so it works a good portion of the time. Its not flawless, but its not horrible.

 

[Misch]

Smeargle will probably do ok even at lvl 100 as it's so extremely frail... But yeah, all the sets of this kind are a little gimmicky. But worth the surprise factor anyways :> .

 

[Payton64]

Problem with Trick Room is that you have to get it up, and then switch in your Taillow/Rattata without it being knocked out. Too much risk for too little reward, IMO.

Bronzong @lefties
adamant
max attack and defense 4 hp
trick room
gyro ball
reflect/light screen/iron defense
explosion

after you trick room, you just explode and try your best to KO your opponent. you then can switch in rattata when your opponent sends in his new poke, and also has trick room.