Team BlueCleric:- After a Hiatus

[XxBlueCleric.xX]

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Introduction: Well, I haven't been playing Shoddy for a while (busy with school and life), and here's the team I've been using for the past couple weeks. It's been okay, but I believe there's a lot of room for improvement (including even replacing team members!) I'm open to all suggestions as long as it's logical. Also, sorry that this RMT is just one block, I'm pretty tired right now. I might get to editing it later, but not for a little while, so I hope you'll excuse that. Lastly, this is for Standard ladder in case anyone was wondering...

Team At A Glance:

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The Team In Depth:

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Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature + EVs: Adamant; 220 HP, 252 Atk, 36 Speed
Stealth Rock
Fire Punch
Iron Head
Body Slam

Thoughts / Comments: I love using Jirachi, and it makes a fine lead. Stealth Rock is an absolute necessity on this type of team and it's great to get them up early on. Fire Punch is for opposing Jirachi and denting Metagross leads (if they don't carry Earthquake of course). It also allows me to hit Magnezone. Body Slam provides useful Paralysis support and annoys offensive teams. If it paralyzes an Azelf lead, there's only a 30% chance that it'll get to hit me with a Fire move thanks to Serene Grace doubling Iron Head's flinch rate. Iron Head is also basic STAB. The EVs are to outrun Tyranitar leads and the rest of the EVs are thrown into HP so Jirachi can take hits from the likes of Azelf and Metagross. It also allows me to switch into Salamence at times.

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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Nature + EVs: Adamant; 216 HP, 148 Def, 144 Speed
Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Waterfall
Stone Edge

Thoughts / Comments: A bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados, but without Taunt. After not having been playing on the server for a while, I decided to check out the last usage statistics and gyarados counters (Celebi, Porygon2, Vaporeon)seemed to be at a low. The speed is to outrun max Speed Tyranitar before a dragon dance and outrun starmie after. I believe the HP is for the highest Leftovers recovery and the rest was put into defense. The moves are to get the top coverage with Gyarados. Stone Edge was preferred over Ice Fang because I could damage opposing Gyarados that run Ice Fang over Stone Edge.

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Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Nature + EVs: Adamant; 248 HP, 252 Atk, 8 Speed
Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Superpower
Pursuit

Thoughts / Comments: Standard. The main attraction in using CB Scizor is his revenge killing abilities and ability to take Outrages from the likes of Salamence. U-Turn always nets me an advantageous situation, so it's a staple. Superpower is for Magnezone trying to switch-in. Pursuit from Scizor is my best means of defeating Latias. The EVs allow Scizor to best dish out damage and take hits from either side of the spectrum.

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Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature + EVs: Timid; 204 HP, 128 Def, 176 Speed
Calm Mind
Dragon Pulse
Recover
Reflect

Thoughts / Comments: Latias completes the Latias-Scizor-Gyarados core that covers most of the metagame on its own. For that reason, Latias couldn't die to Pursuit immediately and I gave it Reflect. Other than that, Latias is just my defensive Calm Minder. 204 HP and 128 Def maximize Leftovers recovery while giving it defensive potential. The speed is to outrun all Salamence (before Dragon Dance of course) Reflect as well as Defensive EVs are especially important because Latias has the ability to take on Offensive Gyarados that use Stone Edge over Ice Fang. (As I stated before, the ones that use Ice Fang are handled by my own Gyarados) Latias is also my infernape counter.

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Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Nature + EVs: Jolly; 216 HP, 212 Def, 80 Speed
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Roost

Thoughts / Comments: Physically Bulky Salamence. He's basically extra insurance against stuff like Lucario and can do quite a bit of sweeping himself. 216 HP is again a Leftovers number, 80 speed is to outrun all Lucario, and 212 Def is leftover and can help in taking CB Scizor bullet punches. Often times, I find this Salamence helping me sweep offensive teams. That's one thing that hasn't changed in the metagame. ;)

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Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature + EVs: Careful; 168 HP, 220 SDef, 120 Def
Curse
Return
Fire Punch
Rest

Thoughts / Comments: Seriously, Scizor is not a 100% Curselax counter. Curselax has helped me kill a whole lot of Scizors this past week. But other than that, it also helps my team handle several other special attackers. When I put in Curselax, I was hoping it'd help cure my stall weakness. My only other options would've been to change Gyarados to a RestTalker, but then it'd open up an opposing Gyarados weakness. Changing Salamence to MixMence would mean the more common Offensive teams would be harder to handle. In any case, I haven't faced any Stall teams so far this week which make Curselax slightly less appealing. I'm still thinking of a decent replacement, though.

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Threat List:

I'll just post the largest threats to this team here in case any replacements are to occur:-

Gyarados:- The DD Version is beaten based on it's combination of moves, but it's risky to figure that out.

Salamence:- Always a threat to teams. My team is defensive and would hate to sacrifice something to figure out if it is DD or Mixed.

Jirachi:- The CM versions are decently handled by Curselax and hates taking Earthquakes. The Iron Head versions are annoying as hell though.

I'll edit in more stuff later as I think of them. Thank you for reading this far.

-XxBlueCleric.xX

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[Spika]

Sometimes you can just figure out if they're DD or mixed based on their other Pokemon. Do they have another mixed sweeper? Other sweepers? Stuff like that.

Also, you should probably get Ice Shard in there somewhere... that helps with mence nicely, especially if you can get some damage in before you use it.

 

[tab]

Hey.

This looks like it's a pretty solid team, there's only a couple of obvious weaknesses that I can see.

The real stand-out weakness here is Gyarados. You have offensive Life Orb variants covered reasonably well thought Reflect + Recover on Latias, which is far from being an ideal solution, but I guess it's good enough, but by far the most common set is offensive with Leftovers, which will be more than happy to set up a second DD on Latias to 2HKO through Reflect. Outside of going with Thunderbolt over Reflect on Latias, I can't really see any way of covering Gyara after a DD, so you're going to have to replace something to cover that.
Your Gyarados is probably the most expendable member of the team, as Salamence performs a very similar job to it already. What you choose to help deal with Gyarados depends on what you want from that slot. If you want a defensive Pokemon, Celebi would be a pretty good choice, giving you a Scizor lure which can OHKO it with HP Fire after it's switched into Stealth Rock twice, a solid defensive pokemon which fits in with the rest of the team quite well, and a Gyara counter. However, it's worth noting that going with Celebi mean that you're going to struggle to take Scizor U-turns. The team already struggled to deal with them, but being limited to one Intimidating flying-type made the situation a bit worse.
Alternatively, if you want to keep something offensive in Gyara's place, your best bet would be to go with a Choice Scarfer. Heatran is always a good choice for one, and comes with the added benefit of giving you a decent Scizor counter. Seeing as you need it to counter Gyarados, Fire Blast/Earth Power/HP Electric/Explosion would be the way to go.
If you want to keep Gyarados, you could change Jirachi around a bit to make it able to revenge kill opposing Gyarados by giving it Iron Head/Fire Punch/ThunderPunch/Stealth Rock, however without Trick, Jirachi isn't really a great lead, so it's not something I'd recommend doing unless replacing Gyara is really undesirable.

On Jirachi, I'd go with a Jolly nature and 176 Speed EVs, taking them out of HP. You lose a bit of power, but outspeeding everything up to and including Jolly Lucario is always nice, and it would give you the freedom of choosing between a few checks instead of having to stick with one. For example, with a faster Jirachi, you aren't forced to take an Extremespeed with Salamence, which is going to do upwards of 70% after Stealth Rock against Lucario, as Jirachi can take Extremespeed easily enough and OHKO with Fire Punch after Lucario is either weakened slightly or has used Close Combat.

Latias definately needs to go with max Speed and Timid, it's more or less the first thing that you should do when making a Latias EV spread. Go with 128 HP/128 SpA/252 Spe, which still takes physical hits well enough, especially with Reflect, while allowing you to outspeed what you need to while doing a bit more damage.

Other than the Gyarados weakness and the EV spread changes, there's not really much wrong with this team. I hope my suggestions help, and good luck!

 

[XxBlueCleric.xX]

@ Tab:

Thanks for the nice rate. I'm reluctant on switching Gyarados to Celebi because that not only makes it harder to handle Scizor, but also because of the similarity in typing between celebi and latias. I'm thinking that'd be a hindrance to the team overall. For Choice Scarfers, they don't work too well on bulky offensive teams. This team really hates offering free switch-ins as such.

Latias sadly can't handle Gyarados without big defensive investment and Reflect (or Thunderbolt). I'm going to try out the Jirachi spread, but I'm not keen on it. The thing is: do I really need to run so much speed if I'm using Body Slam for paralysis?

 

[Virtuoso]

Ok, so I definitely see the huge Gyarados weak. I am going to back up what Tab said and recommend a Celebi > Gyarados. I'm thinking just a simple Celebi:

Celebi @ Leftovers | Bold
252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Thunder Wave / Grass Knot / Recover / HP Fire

Helps cover the Gyarados weak, HP Fire helps with Scizor, and T-Wave can help hinder those opposing Mence and Jirachi that you are having issues with.

And Scizor shouldn't be too hard to play around. If he is realy U-Turn happy then keep baiting him in, twice is all you need, and then you switch to Celebi for the KO.

And I would also suggest at least testing T-Bolt > Reflect on Latias.

 

[Dormin]

Hmmm it looks like the core is there, but I think you would do well with a few tweaks.

First off, Jirachi. I really think the standard TrickScarf lead set will do your team a lot of good not only because it gives you a good revenge killer, but also because your team does not fare too well against stall. DD Salamence and Petaya Berry Empoleon will both tear this team apart in the mid to late game, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to have something that outspeeds those two.

Your Gyarados is not running a very efficient spread, especially considering the rest of your team. It seems like a bit of overkill to have both Salamence and Gyarados be defensively oriented, and you'll need a lot more firepower to break through tough bulky offense. I suggest either making Salamence or Gyarados an all-out DD sweeper to punch holes in an opponents team that would allow the other, bulkier sweeper to set up with ease. I would probably recommend DDmence because of the surprise Scizor kill via Snorlax. I would also recommend the standard EVs and Taunt for your BulkyGyara--if you can Taunt a Celebi's T-wave towards Gyarados, for example, you then have a perfect set-up to switch in Salamence and get a free DD.

As for your weakness to opposing Gyarados, I think your team could be helped a lot by a LO Jolteon over Latias. The electric immunity allows you to switch in Jolteon from Gyarados if you feel that Salamence is not ready to sweep, and the extra speed gives you another good pokemon to pick off the weak and/or put a dent in the opposition's pokes.

Jolteon @ Life Orb
Volt Absorb
Timid
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power Grass
-Charge Beam/Signal Beam

HP Grass is going to help Salamence a lot by taking out Swampert, and Celebi/Rotom are dented quite a bit by Shadow Ball. Charge Beam vs Signal Beam depends on your preference. Signal Beam allows you to hit Tyranitar hard (good for Snorlax) and OHKO Celebi, while Charge Beam gives you a Special Sweeper like your former Latias. Jolteon also helps your Jirachi problem a little bit because of the normal CM Flash Cannon+Thunderbolt combo that Jolteon resists.

Other than that, I think my changes will help you a lot and win you more games. With Gyarados, Salamence, Jolteon, and Curselax, you have abundant options as to which pokemon you should sweep with depending on the team matchup, and Scizor+Scarf Jirachi only help your cause. Hope I helped and thanks for the PM.

300TH POST

 

[Revolution.Z]

Very solid team nothing to comment on except.

Put taunt on Gyara and bounce. Bounce for the reason that with STAB and +1 it can do roughly 90% to a standard celebi.

Nothing to really say all said above.

 

[XxBlueCleric.xX]

@ Dormin: Thanks for the great rate. I've been testing it out and it works very well. Thanks!

@ Revolution: Celebi isn't a huge threat for this team, so I'd prefer going with BulkyGyara.

 

[iKitsune]

Its quite an interesting team, now seems as good a time as ever to pull off a curselax sweep with all those defensively compromised skarmorys about.

My main qualm with this team is that you have two SR weaks and no spinner.

Gyarados simply doesnt offer much to this team in terms of sweeping and defensively it covers pokemon the team already easily counters, therefore i think it has to be either tweaked or replaced.

An offensive jolly/adamant LO Gyarados variant often has an excellent chance to sweep in this metagame and will likely take down one or two threats of your snorlax. Other than that if you desperately want to keep Gyarados i think you would do well to use the rest talker with DD/waterfall/rest/sleep talk.

My other ideas for that slot are a sub/scarf rotom H to counter/check Gyarados (the bane of this team) and burn /trick annoying things , it can even beat some stall teams due to the fact blissey can't break the sub and it can charge beam to victory. In a similar vein a LO jolt could help but ultimately it would not be useful against stall unless they lose Blissey for whatever reason.

I think this team needs a powerful wallbreaker in that slot to simply force the enemy into submission allowing Snorlax to sweep. I think a physical mix ape could work, helps with empoleon due to mach punch and sweeps very effectively. Other than that a life orb or sub gengar could work it just depends on what you want in that slot all out offense or as i mentioned a DD rest talk gyara, which could pull off a nice sweep against stall.

Anyway its an interesting team and i wish you the best of luck thanks for the pm, it can be hard to rate the well made teams so i hope this was helpful.

 

[boo836]

Wouldn't Scarf Zapdos> Gyara help with your Gyara weak? It really helps breaking down on DD Salamence, it screws over Scizor and it lols when it is revenge killing Salamence, 2 of those are threats that you yourself have stated and another Scizor counter would always be welcome.

Zapdos:@ Choice Scarf
Naive
252 Spatt, 212 spd, 40 def, 6 att
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-Turn