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Team Evolution

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Eggbert, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Eggbert

    Eggbert

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    Team Evolution

    Intro

    This team pretty much evolved from my last RMT. Soon after I updated Brutalanda I decided I was tired of having rain always having boosted attacks against me and having sun have perma chlorophyll scarfer sweepers. I added Tyranitar and Landorus in, not to make the team a sandstorm team per se, but to make it better defended against other weather teams that always had the initial advantage of their weather. The main focus of the team was to counter other weather, get up hazards, and use synergy between Mew and Latias to eventually pull out a sweep. Now it's pretty similar but alot of stuff has changed and with the addition of Landorus I can now abuse the momentum game with U-turning and Volt switching.Something just clicked with the team and it reached #78 on the smogon ladder about a week ago or so before it disappeared for the first time. It's pretty standard with some surprise factors, but that's BW OU for you. Teams have to fill into different categories like sand or rain in order to counter the others, and they all need to have certain things in order to work namely an anti-sand / rain / sun ect which is why everyone has Gliscor / Skarmory, Rotom / Lati / Gastro. Anyway since the round is pretty much over as it seems like everyone is posting RMTs now. I'm just looking for ways to improve it and retire it since I will probably have to make a new team for next round (hopefully).

    Preview

    [​IMG]

    The Team

    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Superpower

    This isn't mixtar. It's specially defensive tar. I didn't like using ttar until I eventually switched mixtar to all physical. It's been very useful. With careful and max / max I can tank ridiculous special attacks like 2 specs surfs and +1 modest LO bug buzzes and even +2 LO Thundurus focus blasts. Then ttar retaliates with the super effective attack for the KO. Chople has been insanely useful for Thundurus, Hydreigon, Reuniclus, and Gengar. Stealth rock is also 100% mandatory for Dragonite, Genies, and Volcarona. I had rock slide over superpower for some time but having a way to cripple enemy ttar (since I outspeed most of them) and musketeers trying to set up is more useful. I miss rock slide for bold Volcarona, but I needed crunch + chople for Reuniclus and also for bulky Latias. It can only counter 1, maybe 2, of these deadly sweepers though due to its low speed and lack of recovery, so I have to be sure to plan this from the team preview. Ttar is obviously essential for making sure weather can't have an automatic advantage against me. Once I realized that, I didn't want like 60+% of the teams I face having an advantage. It's sad that it has to be this way.

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    [​IMG]

    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost

    Good old Skarmory. If I see something like Ferrothorn when I don't need ttar anymore I can just spike up like crazy since everyone on my team is immune to spikes damage other than ttar. Eventually hazards and chip damage will wear out grounded counters and the bulky pokemon. Spikes are also crucial for letting me lure in Jirachi and 2HKOing it. Skarm also phazes random physical threats and dragons. It sucks but I run shed shell as the other team can completely have their way with dragmag otherwise. I hate how facing Magnezone completely limits my ability to set up spikes and counter stuff. Hazards with dual u-turning is the name of the game and with them even solid clus counters like Scizor will just be worn down. Skarmory sets up on stuff that like Jirachi, Ferrothorn, weak bulky waters, ect. The EVs are random but the point is having enough special to survive and set up on weak scalds while being able to stop physical threats. I would like advice on the EV spread though. Physical bulk is more important, as it allows me to tank out several sandstorm sweepers, like Excadrill + Landorus, and not be overwhelmed. Since Tyranitar and Latias are special walls it's a waste to not run max defense on Skarm. It takes around 45% from a +2 LO rockslide with this spread. Non LO with rarely break Skarm without repeated flinches.

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    [​IMG]

    Landorus @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    101 base speed here. Revenges Thundurus, Volcarona, DDers, you name it. U-turn is just amazing for momentum since Gliscor is a free pass to Rotom allowing me to rack up more hazard damage on their Rotom switch. Landorus is excellent at forcing switches against Celebi, Ttar, Heatran, ect. Rock slide for reliability (do you really want to rely on stone edge to revenge a boosted Thundurus or Volcarona?) and Hp ice for Gliscor, whether I can beat it 1v1 endgame or hit it after I see them switch in Gliscor multiple times. U-turn the first few times usually and if you know they will always bring in Glis then go for it. Hammer arm was used at one point to take on balloon users, but HP ice is generally better for hitting other Landorus (SD can pretty much sweep me otherwise), 4x Dragons, and Gliscor. EQ has 195 base power in the sand and hammer arm has 200 when it is hitting 2x so Scrafty is still hit for similar damage. Landorus is here over Excadrill because it can still revenge stuff regardless of the weather, which helps if sun teams get cute and trap ttar with duggy. I have tested Excadrill alot, but I usually prefer the reliability of Landorus, as it is able to stop QD Volca in the sun and Genies in the rain. That's the main difference between Excadrill and Landorus. One thrives in the sand and sucks everywhere else. And one does well in the sand and everywhere else. Also Landorus is in the center because it's the coolest.

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    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Hp / 164 SpA / 92 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Pain Split

    Rotom is needed to help combat rain teams, Gliscor, and Skarmory, while also checking SD Scizor who is a huge threat otherwise if it sets up. I don't really know why people waste 144 EVs on speed, 92 is all Rotom needs to beat Scizor with HP fire and get the slow volt-switch out. Specs is a recent addition to my Rotom, but I've returned to the regular Rotom so I can recover more reliably. Volt switch is much better because no one actually leaves their Gliscor or Skarmory in, even after they protect in Gliscor's case, and team preview helps with ground types. This lets me gain momentum against stronger rain teams and attackers like Latios that would have the chance to crush me otherwise. Volt switch has caught alot of pursuit bait for ttar as well. Along with Landorus, Rotom can just U-turn and volt switch repeatedly racking up hazards and chip damage. Pain split is needed for healing, which is probably Rotom's greatest flaw. Trick is amazing for stopping random Reuniclus / boosting sweepers and also tricking Blissey and taking the eviolite from Chansey. Since Latias covers similar threats to Rotom (strong water attacks mainly, which Latias is better at taking) and doesn't need that much bulk to beat Gliscor and Skarmory, running a offensive Rotom is generally more useful, though I still want as much bulk as possible. Rotom is so powerful that it can 2HKO Reuniclus by hitting it before it boosts and then KOing it through calm mind. Otherwise I can trick it. With a layer of spikes, Jirachi will be 2HKOd by hydro pump, clearing the way for Reuniclus. Rotom holds this team together against certain threats that would destroy me otherwise.

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    [​IMG]

    Latias @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    Latias is really underrated. It is so anti-sun and anti-rain I can usually just sweep them both after a calm mind or two. Especially if they rely on Forry and Ferro to "wall" me. Even specs toed can't threaten Latias since I have recover and awesome special bulk, unlike Rotom and Latios who both take more than 50% and can't always get their health back. I started with sub, but Hp Fire really makes the set. It beats Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forry, and more. It also lets me beat most steel types with 2 calm minds rather than 6, which it rarely gets. 2 calm minds is all Latias really needs to sweep. Latias is also needed to counter sweep stuff like Celebi and Reuniclus, who could otherwise be really annoying. But with Latias' typing and bulk it can easily switch in and setup, forcing them out before I get too many calm minds. With its bulk it takes priority from Mamo and Scizor for less than 60% as a last resort. Latias is Reuniclus' counterpart. With spikes I can easily lure in and dispose of the steel types that counter clus. Lum berry and spikes let me lure in a weakened Jirachi and 2HKO it. Lum is alot more useful because of all the random paralysis, toxic, and scalding going around. Clus also takes a crunch or two from ttar and KOs with focus blast. It's a lure and defensive tank and a sweeper in one.

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    [​IMG]

    Reuniclus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Recover

    Standard Reuniclus. Despite this it is really tough to bring down. Even mixtar can't 2HKO me with crunch, and CB Scizor can't OHKO with U-turn. Just a little example of its physical bulk. The original goal was to have e-belt Latios lure in and KO Scizor (which I used in an unsuccesful transition phase of the team), and it still works this way with Latias. Latias can also lure in Jirachi too provided I get spikes up. Once Scizor and Jirachi are gone most teams really don't have a way of beating Reuniclus except maybe tricking it. Which is really obvious, especially if I don't see leftovers on their volt switch Rotom. Most teams rely on hitting it with powerful choice / rain moves, which is the reason why Clus loves sand so much. Reuniclus isn't just here to sweep though. Once something else is asleep, this is one of the best Breloom counters (only second to Celebi) as it can soak up seed bombs all day and is immune to leech seed. It also checks RP Terrakion (and LOless SD versions), Toxicroak, and other fighters. Reuniclus is also an excellent pivot to Ferrothorn since it can't even leech seed me and is forced out. It's also the best stall breaker I've ever used. Watch for trick, sleep, CM Latias, and other obvious checks, then just save Reuniclus for last and clean up lategame. Stall has very few legitimate ways of taking down Clus and usually if their get past clus it's just PP stalling. The moveset is also pretty straightforward, the only thing that I need to explain is psychic. While psyshock is cool for CM wars, psychic lets me do a few important things: Beat Gliscor and Quagsire. Gliscor actually counters psyshock Reuniclus as it can't 2HKO Glis at +2 even and Glis can taunt, SD, ect. Quagsire loses unless it has curse and it is otherwise a huge pain to my team, even more now that I don't run WoW on Rotom. I have to rely on Skarm to set up spikes and phaze it until something can 2HKO it. Other than that Reuniclus is excellent and has pulled my team through alot of near loses and random walls that can stop the rest of my team.

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    Conclusion

    Any advice is appreciated. Excadrill is a bit of a problem with LO + flinch (which is a reality), and rain + steel types are really annoying as well. I'm also looking for better EV spreads because mine are pretty much just 252 / 252 with some extra for speed benchmarks. So yea, rate away - Eggbert.

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  2. Eternal

    Eternal
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Giving your CM Latias Lum Berry is just weakening its defensive capabilities. It will be harder for you to recover back especially with an added 6.25% damage from your own Sandstorm. You try try to replace HP Fire for Refresh. Refresh will allow you to heal from the common Toxic attackers like Ferrothorn, Politoed, Blissey, Jellicent, Rotom-W, Bronzong, etc. And will allow you to set up on them. Great for breaking stall too. Besides, you already have Skarmory for Swords Dance Scizor. Though giving Skarmory Leftovers and playing against Magnezone teams cleverly would be a good idea if you want to keep come bulk on the Skarmory.

    Next, I would suggest replacing Pain Split from your Specs Rotom-W for Hidden Power Fire. This will allow you to OHKO common Ferrothorn switches on Rotom-W and give you a better opportunity to sweep with a Leechless Latias.

    Also, if you wish to beat other Tyranitar with your own Tyranitar's Superpower, try moving like 8 EVs to its Speed so you don't risk losing Speed tie or other Tyranitars with a bit of Speed with Superpower.
  3. mukery

    mukery

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    52
    Your team looks great and balanced, not much to say :) I just have a small nitpick: I suggest you put 8 EVs from Atk and SpDef into Spe on Tyranitar, just to make sure that you'll outspeed and OHKO all opposing Tyranitar leads.

    Edit: Oh, someone got to post just before me :O well, I support the Latias idea, but about Rotom, I think you're better off running a set with Hydro Pump/ Thunderbolt/ Pain Split/ HP Fire with Leftovers, that'll make it easier for it to take on Rain Teams, as it'll give it better longevity.
  4. Eggbert

    Eggbert

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
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    Refresh sounds like a really cool idea, I'll give it a go. Hidden power on Rotom isn't as useful but I'll probably test it out without Hp fire Latias for quickly KOing Scizor. I did start using leftovers again and it is alot better for most matches. Also speed creep is always good. Thanks for the rate.

    You were beaten to the punch, but yea I will speed creep. The regular Rotom has worked for the team, but having extra insurance against stat uppers like Sigilyph and Reuniclus (especially when I need to keep Ttar alive for something like Specs Latios) and the power boost has been a bit more useful. Thanks for the rate anyway.

    Edit:

    I just got the idea of using trick room Reuniclus with Hp fire to lure in Scizor since refresh Latias can beat Blissey. Thoughts?
  5. NatGeo

    NatGeo kauai
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,426
    Hi, nice team. Eternal's right, Refresh is infinitely better than Lum Berry. I see that you might have a problem taking on Latios if Tyranitar goes down (HP Ice from Landorus doesn't OHKO unless there's a good amount of prior damage), so you might want to switch out Rotom-W with Gastrodon using 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD @ Leftovers, with Recover | Earth Power | Toxic | Ice Beam. This gives you a nice check, and Gastrodon covers all the stuff Rotom-W does as well. Swords Dance Scizor, however, is actually checked quite nicely by Skarmory so you don't have to worry there.

    Just a thought, hope I helped!
  6. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    Gastro will definitely help out with rain though it makes me alot weaker to Gliscor. I'll give it a shot anyway because Gastro also helps with other Rotom who are annoying when paired with TTar for pursuiting Latias. Hp ice doesn't do anything to Latios but U-turn will OHKO with 2 rounds of SR damage I believe. Thanks for the rate.
  7. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 free as a bird
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

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    Hey,

    Pretty solid team. I think you should keep Rotom-W over Gastrodon seeing as it forms a highly effective two punch core with Landorus which will easily wear down the opponent. It also provides an excellent way to lure in and KO Ferrothorn, making Latias' job a lot easier.

    Keep the Reuniclus set you have, Scizor is not going to last very long anyway with Spikes + SR if you Focus Blast it on the switch. You can then Recover off the U-turn damage quite easily or go to Skarmory if it's an SD version. You also need the defense investment and recovery in order to check Terrakion effectively, as double dance versions are otherwise a huge headache for this team.

    I really think you need Rock Slide on Tyranitar to counter Volcarona, as if it manages to get a couple of boosts it's pretty much gg for you. Superpower is the move to replace. Rock Slide still hits opposing Tyranitar hard, and 2HKOs if they Superpower you. The musketeers are not really problems for this team anyway, with Virizion being setup fodder for Latias and Reuniclus. Terrakion is a bit more problematic as I mentioned before, but Reuniclus can still handle it.

    Good luck!
  8. franky

    franky
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hi egg,

    yeah i just don't see the reason why you should use a choiced rotom atm when you can opt for simple modest leftovers set. being locked in isn't exactly what this team needs and it actually makes things more difficult for you because the damage input show very little difference without specs. i'd recommend using modest with leftovers and the movesets hydro pump / will-o-wisp /volt change / pain split with the evs 114 hp / 252 spa / 144 spe. this is p. much a more useful version than your current and allows you to predict accordingly without being locked into one move. since quagsire is like a huge pain, will-o-wisp will thwart its recovery making your team relatively easier to deal with it.

    as for other options, leftovers is the better option to use on latias since youre sweeping lategame. if you fear status, you can always switch out but lum is a poor item choice when its counters range from scizor, tar, and blissey. the former two dont normally have status move, while the latter has status but latias can't even break through blissey without getting +6 boosts or something. (which is impossible unless your opponent is dumb). overall gl!
  9. Eggbert

    Eggbert

    Joined:
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    I did test alot of the suggestions mentioned in the first few rates. Leftovers recovery is alot better on both Skarmory and Latias. HP fire on Rotom was a toss up really but since I don't really have time to recover with specs it was more useful than pain split. Gastrodon walls alot of teams but it leaves me walled by other Skarmory and I have almost no way of breaking specially defensive. I'm still have to test refresh more because as soon as I try using it I don't face any teams with status. TR Reuniclus isn't right for this team as it couldn't check anything or recover.

    Yea, you are right about Rotom and Reuniclus. I do need Rotom to beat Skarmory and Reuniclus couldn't check anything without bold + recovery. I usually have Landorus to check Volcarona since having ttar eat a bug buzz makes it easy for the sun team to win but I'll give rock slide another chance because Landorus can't switch in. It doesn't 2HKO other ttar though, even with -1. Thanks for the rate.

    Being locked into a move isn't really a problem since after Rotom attacks it will usually being volt switching or forced out by a water resist that can KO it like Virizion, but I have been missing the recovery against sand teams lately. Especially since if Rotom falls it will be a pain to take Gliscor down. I'll give it a spin. You are right about leftovers too. Thanks for the rate.

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