Team : How It Started

[Snypar]

Some days ago I was talking to Zak and discussing how I suck at building teams, he gave me some advice and I came up with this. This team started out poor, it had the worse win ratio and I was giving up on it when I just happened to think "Why not create a Luke based team" I decided first I want Pokes who work well together and not focus entirely on Luke and it's counters, once I had done that then I looked at the threat list and made adjustments. Finally I added in gaps on Pokes who eliminate Lukes counters and this is what I came up with.​

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252 HP / 236 ATK / 12 DEF / 8 SPE @ Occa Berry
Adamant


- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash


I needed a solid lead that could get rocks up quickly and maybe have a part later on the the game and this was the result, Ev's are standard for lead Gross and Occa Berry helps me take a hit from Tran / Ape. I was opting to go for Jirachi but using that lead in my other teams it was time for a change.

252 SP.ATK / 252 SPE / 4 HP @ Choice Specs
Timid

- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power (Fire)
- Surf
- Trick


I needed something that can hit hard and this thing can, SpecsMence was here originally but SR hindering it's Hit and Run tactic saw me at a disadvantage. One thing that wants me to use something else is T-Tar, this either has to be used late game rather then mid-game when I'm looking for a opening. Latias is important as it can beat most of Lukes counters / Revenge killer such as Tran, Mach Punch Ape and some Gliscors.​

252 ATK / 252 SPE / 4 SPE @ Choice Band
Adamant

- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

The second Poke to lure out most of Lucario's counters and revenge killers, this and Latias work well and most of Latias switch in's are handled by Scizor and most of Scizors switch in's and handled by Latias. The set is standard.​

252 SP.ATK / 252 SPE / 4 HP @ Leftovers
Timid

- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Substitute


My main Scizor switch in, I disliked the idea of having half the team with Choice items and it also gets me a free Sub when Scizor switches out. I don't have much to say about this since this is standard except this has Lefties > Scarf.

252 HP / 220 DEF / 36 SPE @ Leftovers
Bold

- Thunder Wave
- Grass Knot
- Earth Power
- Recover

My "one" wall and it's here to take on Gyara and hopefully get some Para around, I have Earth Power here because Heatran find Celebi the perfect switch in and when there paralyzed seem to think I can't do anything and it just takes weight off Latias. Celebi also counters Pert who can survive a +2 CC from Luke so it m akes me sad when the sweep ends and if it's a CursePet then I die if Celebi ain't here. This is also my main answer to Gyara, Gyara beats Luke so badly it ain't even funny. Celebi has a huge role in the team.

252 SPE / 252 ATK / 4 HP @ Life Orb
Jolly

- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Punch

The main Poke of the team and what a Poke. For some reason most teams don't have a way to handle SD Luke and simply lose when this comes out late game. I've tested what variant to use here, I've had Crunch but found Ice Punch better as it hits Flygon and Mence who run around late game. I could run Crunch as Rotom forms do get annoying but Heatran can take care of most of them.​

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This team has done well on the ladder and places but I still think it can use a LOT of improvements, I've gone to changing this team from bulky to balanced to offensive and I don't mind what you suggest as long as it makes sense and it's constructive.​

 

[Snypar]

BUMP

I ain't getting rates anywhere. :/

 

[Lord Blood]

252 SP.ATK / 252 SPD / 4 HP @ Choice Specs
Timid​

- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power (Fire)
- Surf
- Trick
You should consider Thunderbolt over HP Fire. You have Heatran to deal with Scizor not to mention a lot of your Pokemon resist bullet punch.

252 ATK / 252 SPD / 4 ATK @ Choice Band
Adamant​

- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit
You wrote 4 Atk. Here's a better EV Spread: 252 Atk/252 SpD/4 Spe.
This will help against non-STABed HP Fires.

252 HP / 220 DEF / 36 SPD @ Leftovers
Bold​

- Thunder Wave
- Grass Knot
- Earth Power
- Recover​

Consider Heal Bell over Earth Power.​

​

 

[Desolate]

RMT

Your team seems some sort of weak to a leading Azelf. It could flamethrower your Metagross. Although you have a Heatran which should soak up the flamethrower or any other strong fire attacks it might pack, this is a very good idea to have, I suggest you keep this. One thing is I do suggest another wall other then the Celebi. You should for more of a Special Defense wall to back up your team.

 

[les gets]

It's a pretty good team, although you better hope to god that your Heatran doesn't faint, because fire moves rip through your team.

Scarftran can kill your own Heatran with Earth Power, and later sweeping your team. HP Ice won't do too much to Latias though.

As long as you be careful, you should be fine...but sometimes you just have to let Heatran faint, if it's best for the situation.

A subseeding Celebi would work well with your team as well.

Edit: Also, it's hard to tell on your Latias if you have 252 Special Defense, or 252 Speed.

(:

 

[Desolate]

Your team seems to be weak to a lead such as Azelf with flamethrower. You seem to be stopping that with a Heatran, but it is not a good wall as it can not hold on to the end of the battle to switch into all of your pokemon. I would suggest in addition to the Physically defensive wall, Celebi... You have a Special Defense rather then Latias.

 

[EagleX]

Spe should be for speed and SpD for special defense

 

[Snypar]

It's a pretty good team, although you better hope to god that your Heatran doesn't faint, because fire moves rip through your team.

That's the main reason Heatran is a Sub version rather then choiced. When people say Fire types it's Tran and Ape who are both handled by Latias easily seeing how there such few Fire types.

Scarftran can kill your own Heatran with Earth Power, and later sweeping your team. HP Ice won't do too much to Latias though.

Latias takes care of Tran and I never stay in against a Tran even if I know it ain't scarfed.

As long as you be careful, you should be fine...but sometimes you just have to let Heatran faint, if it's best for the situation.

I haven't had a situation like that yet.

A subseeding Celebi would work well with your team as well.

Then I have to take away Earth Power and having Latias the only one to handle Tran seems a b it "meh" to me.

Edit: Also, it's hard to tell on your Latias if you have 252 Special Defense, or 252 Speed.

Fixed that.

(:

Your team seems some sort of weak to a leading Azelf. It could flamethrower your Metagross.

Azelf can't do much when Metagross has Occa Berry and Tran can always take care of it unless it has HP Ground.

Although you have a Heatran which should soak up the flamethrower or any other strong fire attacks it might pack, this is a very good idea to have, I suggest you keep this.

Exactly.

One thing is I do suggest another wall other then the Celebi. You should for more of a Special Defense wall to back up your team.


I haven't really felt the need to have walls on my teams, when I normally make teams they have no walls, it's when I ask people to help or when I look for the threat list do I add a wall.

Spe should be for speed and SpD for special defense

I know, I guess it's a habit I've had with most RMT's. Anyway it's fixed now.

Thanks for the rates. ^_^

 

[kd24]

What truly worries me about this team is that it almost feels like you are setting yourself for something bad to happen when you have your fastest pokemon at 350, with the second fastest coming in at 306. And it just so happens that Latias and Celebi are pretty much Pursuit Bait (Although its true that Celebi can at least deal with Tar with all of that Defense and Grass Knot), he is still setting himself up for Weavile and Scizor. And once you lose your two Psychic-types, you are left with 4 steel-types, the fastest coming in at 306 and only one being choiced. And this leaves you extremely vulnerable to Scarf Magnezone as well as other threats like Zapdos and Gyarados. Speed isn't all important to a team, but it really hurts if you are overlapping types with no real speed Pokemon to revenge kill. Instead of focusing on speed, I am going to focus on eliminating the overlap of types.

I am going to suggest a few radical changes. First, we need to identify what to keep and I say keeping Scizor, Celebi, and Lucario is fine. Celebi is obviously dealing with Gyarados at the moment so there is no real reason to eliminate him from the team. Now, before we jump too far ahead, I would definitely consider throwing a Dragon Dance Tyranitar into the mix as well as putting Hidden Power Fire on Celebi over Earth Power. Basically, Tyranitar eliminates Magnezone and Zapdos as long as you can predict reasonably well and not get hit by U-Turn or Flash Cannon. And eliminating Magnezone and Zapdos is so helpful to what this team is trying to do (Sweep with Lucario). Tar also provides SS support, breaking random Focus Sash and Lucario and Scizor are immune to sand. Now, remember when I said Celebi was often considered as Pursuit bait or even U-Turn bait from Scizor? Well no more. Our Celebi will now have Hidden Power Fire to catch Scizor for a quick OHKO, this resulting in them having to throw out another counter to Tyranitar. And that counter will usually be a bulky water that you hit as hard as possible and then bring in Lucario to sweep.

Things are now looking up for this team but we still face some problems. One of them is definitely that we don't have a good Infernape counter, another is that we don't have a good way to stop Fire, Bug, Ground, and FIghting attacks. And I think you probably know what is coming next, but if not, I'll tell you anyway; DD Gyarados. A very bulky Gyarados provides a quick and efficiant counter to Infernape while keeping your Lucario and Scizor safe from strong physical attackers.

Tyranitar, Celebi, Gyarados, Lucario, Scizor is now the current team and we still have some holes to patch up. One, we don't have a solid Zapdos counter, two, we don't have Stealth Rock, and 3, Rotom-h could be trouble, especially if we aren't packing Pursuit Tar. Now, you could use Dragon Dance, Pursuit, Earthquake, Stone Edge or Crunch if you were truly daring but that is usually something I would advise against, as Stone Edge and Crunch are almost always essential to a good DDTar. Now, I am going to ask you to try something that may sound risky but I personally feel like it is a good idea to run a Stealth Rock, Earthquake, Protect or Surf, Ice Beam Swampert lead. One, it counters DDMence, and two, it doesn't die to Rotom-h and can lay quite a hurting on it with Ice Beam or Surf, should you choose Surf over Protect. Swampert also provides another reliable bulky water to counter Heatran while not overlapping Gyarados' typing. Swampert also gives you a solid Stealth Rock user in place of Metagross.

So the final team that I would suggest to you would most likely be:

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP/252 Def/16 SAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Protect / Surf
---
Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 72 HP/184 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Crunch / Pursuit
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Dance
---
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP/220 Def/36 Spd/12 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Grass Knot
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
---
Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Swords Dance
- Ice Punch / Stone Edge
---
Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 200 HP/24 Atk/56 Spd/228 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Superpower
---
Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 216 HP/68 Atk/128 Spd/96 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Taunt
---

Good luck and I hope you take my suggestions into consideration.


KD's final two cents: Do you need Celebi? I'll be honest, Latias can do the exact same thing with Thunder Wave, Recover, Hidden Power Fire, and Dragon Pulse. Your team is very effective in handling Tyranitar so you don't really need Surf or Grass Knot. Something to consider if you want more flat out speed than having to get it by Dragon Dancing and is something to consider if you want yet another Heatran counter. There is one problem with that desicion that would have to be taken into consideration: You now die horribly to Gyarados if he can get that one turn of set up. Celebi is what keeps Gyarados from murdering you. Latias also helps you take down Zapdos though so like I said, it could go either way (especially if you are afraid of HP Grass Zapdos (although I rarely see them these days and mostly see HP Ice)).

 

[Snypar]

Wow.

I can try to take the new team you've given me and try it out and I'll see how it works out and as you've said I need Celebi to take of Gyara. Anyway thanks for the rate.