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Team Nirm -- Ubers Offense

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by guanlong, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. guanlong

    guanlong

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    188
    Hello there! I would like to share my Ubers Team, which has gotten me to #42 on the PO Wifi Ubers ladder. I've also reached a rather mediocre #82 on Smogon... That isn't really high, so I'd like to get some advice from the team raters here on Smogon.

    Introduction

    I've got no fancy team building process, as this team dates all the way back to December/January. However, there's one thing; this team was based off Reachzero's fantastic team, Meteor Showers. I first saw it when I was a noob and was looking for a good Uber team. It was easy to use and pretty damn strong, and I fell in love with it. Thus, I decided to adapt it to use for Gen V. Still, this shouldn't be taken too seriously, as my playstyle probably differs quite drastically from Reachzero (and by that I mean that I'm an inferior player).

    The team went through at least 1 previous iteration, being

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This team got me to a meagre 1300 rating on the ladder, taking into account my less polished skills back then. I enjoyed Arceus-Fighting's bulk, which allowed me to set up an endgame CM sweep. However, I faced a lot of trouble with the dreaded Extremekiller. Scizor couldn't do anything in return, and Arceus-Fighting took massive damage from +2 Extremespeed… Thus, I decided to change Arceus-Fighting to Arceus-Steel. I realized that Arceus-Steel also served Scizor's purpose, thus giving me a free team slot. I reinstated Mewtwo's position as the late-game sweeper, giving the final team you see today.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This team focuses on spamming high-powered attacks before setting up an endgame Mewtwo sweep. At least that's what it says on the cover. I often end up finishing the game with a different Pokemon, such as Groudon or Dialga. Still, the Mewtwo sweep is the objective of this team. In an ideal situation, I have a Mewtwo with most of its HP and a few Calm Mind boosts.


    [​IMG]
    Rayquaza @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Brick Break
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Fire Blast

    The standard Lead Mixquaza, which was common in late Gen IV. However, it seems to have fallen out of usage, as many opponents fail to realize that this is a mixed set (usually before losing a Ferrothorn to Fire Blast). There's a twist to this set though; instead of running 32 Atk EVs, I chose to max Spe. This is so that I can at least speed-tie with opposing Rayquaza (in the mid-game). There aren't any major KOs I lose out on, anyway; Fire Blast + ES still KOs Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A is still OHKOed. Rayquaza has excellent synergy with my scarfer, Palkia. By weakening many fast threats (e.g. Mewtwo, Darkrai) with Extremespeed, it allows Palkia to grab OHKOs it would otherwise barely miss with Spacial Rend. It also provides a shaky last-ditch check to Scarf Kyogre, as it neutralizes the rain and hurts it with STAB Draco Meteor (which does >70% to 4/0 Kyogre).

    I tend to end up sacrificing Rayquaza against Darkrai leads. Extremespeed takes off a nice 40% of its health, but Rayquaza is then either KOed by Ice Beam or crippled by Dark Void. Sadly, the new sleep mechanics (WHICH FUCKING SUCK) mean that Rayquaza probably won't be able to wake up ever again, so I'll just have to fodder it :( I also Extremespeed against Deoxys-A, even though many carry Ice Beam, which OHKOs. This is because my team really dislikes having to deal with Deoxys-A with Focus Sash intact, as Palkia doesn't take Extremespeeds "like a champ".

    Set Explanation
    Draco Meteor is basically an OHKO button. It destroys most Groudon, Giratina and Dialga, while maiming Kyogre. Brick Break is a 2HKO on Heatran, who otherwise walls me and Blissey. Extremespeed provides excellent priority; I often use it when sacrificing Rayquaza against Mewtwo, so as to ensure that Palkia OHKOs with Spacial Rend. It also hurts Darkrai, meaning Palkia can switch in on the follow-up Nasty Plot and crush it with Spacial Rend. Fire Blast puts the hurt on Ferrothorn and Forretress who think they can set up on Rayquaza for free, OHKOing them 100% of the time.

    Possible Changes
    Rayquaza is integral to the team, as it's an offensive lead that often gives me a 6-5 advantage over the opponent. However, I've considered other item choices (like Lum Berry or Focus Sash) over the Life Orb; both worked pretty well, but I found that Life Orb was the most reliable option.

    [​IMG]
    Dialga @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 120 HP / 136 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Outrage
    - Flamethrower
    - Stealth Rock

    Bulky Mixed Dialga serves as my mid-game Stealth Rocker and an all-around useful Pokemon. With this spread, Dialga is able to survive powerful super effective attacks such as Scarf Garchomp's Outrage and LO Mewtwo's Aura Spheres, then KOing back with its powerful STAB Draco Meteor.

    Dialga is bait. Many expect a normal mixed set, which is outrun and KOed by LO Mewtwo and Scarf Garchomp. They attack, and find that their attacks fail to OHKO! It's too late, for Dialga has already crushed their Pokemon with Draco Meteor coming of a big-ass 438 SpA. Chansey? They rarely run Thunder Wave, meaning that Seismic Toss will be their best bet. That's when Groudon comes in and crushes their bitchass with Earthquake. I also use Dialga to beat Scarf Palkia (when I can't afford to lose Palkia and Arceus is dead). It survives all Spacial Rends and ruins them with Draco Meteor.

    Set Explanation
    The Quiet nature is odd, but it's easy to justify. Dialga is one of the slowest Pokemon in Ubers, and since it's running a mixed set, it can't maximize speed due to having to invest in its Attack. Thus, I chose to forgo a -Def nature, and thus chose -Spe. I haven't regretted this change in nature; Dialga hits really hard with Outrage which 2HKOs Blissey. Draco Meteor is also incredibly powerful now, and it OHKOs Mewtwo and hurts Kyogre badly. This allows Dialga to finish off Scarf/Specs Kyogre with its Outrage. Flamethrower punishes Ferrothorn (2HKOing under the rain at worst) and Forretress.

    Possible Changes
    I don't really mind losing Stealth Rock; even though it's useful, I find that I rarely set it up, and it isn't necessary for my main sweeper (Mewtwo) to KO most threats at +1. However, this added residual damage is very useful in letting Palkia beat Blissey.

    [​IMG]
    Arceus @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Judgment
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Arceus is amazingly useful to me. In addition to being able to check the fearsome Extremekiller, it also serves as a sponge for Dragon-type attacks, like Palkia's Scarf Spacial Rend. I tend to switch this in on Normal Arceus immediately. Even if the other Arceus is actually the Wall variant, Arceus isn't completely crippled by the burn. It can easily beat Wall Arceus due to the typing advantage, and I can easily set up on it and then KO with boosted Judgement.

    I tend to spam WoW with Arceus. Burns are amazing for their residual damage and since my team doesn't have Toxic Spikes, Burns are my best bet at racking up residual damage against the likes of Lugia (FUCK LUGIA) and Mewtwo. I also play very opportunistically with Arceus, and I try to cram in Calm Mind boosts whenever possible, as it will help me beat special attackers more easily.

    Set Explanation
    Judgement allows me to hit things, and hit them hard. It 2HKOs Groudon switch-ins, and has allowed me to sweep more than once in conjunction with Calm Mind. Calm Mind allows me to tank hits from special attackers like Mewtwo and Kyogre (only in last-ditch situations, and against Choiced Kyogre! Kyogre beats Arceus 1v1 with Calm Mind!), and really pumps up the power of Judgement. Recover gives Arceus good staying power; being a sponge is a taxing job, and Arceus often finds itself low on HP. Will-o-Wisp is what Arceus is here for; it cripples the Extremekiller, who would otherwise run through my team like a knife through butter.

    Optional Changes
    I've heard Roar works well on this set over Calm Mind. However, I'm reluctant to forgo Calm Mind's offensive boost; can anyone advise me on whether I should change this?

    [​IMG]
    Palkia @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Surf

    Palkia fulfills its role from the DPP days in Gen V -- it is still the only offensive Pokemon with the ability to switch in to Scarf Kyogre's Water Spout without taking massive damage. It performs this role admirably, and I'm not sure how my team could survive without it. Palkia also serves as an all-purpose revenge killer for the likes of Darkrai, Mewtwo and +1 Flame Charge Reshiram (who is an absolute bitch under the sun!). Palkia is really important to this team, and acts as a check, stopping the likes of Kyogre and Flame Charge Reshiram from crushing my team into little pieces.

    I play recklessly with Palkia, bringing it in immediately on Choiced Kyogre, unless I predict (guess) that they will Thunder, in which case I go to Groudon. I hate this sort of mindgame, so I'm much happier facing Scarf Kyogre. Thunder only annoys Palkia if it gets Parahax. I switch to Rayquaza on the inevitable Ferrothorn switch-in.

    Set Explanation
    Spacial Rend is obvious. I dislike Draco Meteor's SpA drop, and Spacial Rend actually allows me to clean up against weakened teams. Outrage is just so that I can hurt Ho-Oh and allow Mewtwo to finish the job. It's really less useful now that Chansey is more common than Blissey in Ubers… Fire Blast serves the same purpose on Palkia that it does on Dialga, also providing me with a more powerful move than Spacial Rend under the sun.

    Optional Changes
    Thunder over Outrage. I'm not sure about this, as this move tends to be Groudon-bait, but Outrage is really less useful now that Chansey is more common than Blissey in Ubers.

    [​IMG]
    Groudon @[​IMG]
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 112 HP / 184 Atk / 108 Def / 104 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Swords Dance
    - Rock Polish

    Groudon! My favorite (and only) physical attacker on this team. I run a weird-ass Double Dancer set, with 'custom' (more like I'm too lazy to change and I'm not sure what EVs I should use) EVs and Leftovers over the Life Orb. I find that the additional bulk afforded by Leftovers is incredibly useful, as I hate having Groudon (who often acts as a physical sponge) die to LO recoil. I often switch Groudon in on choiced Electric-type attacks from Kyogre and Zekrom. It either acts as a defensive pivot or sets up on them; Double Dance Groudon is really very hard to stop unless you have a defensive Giratina-O.

    Set Explanation
    A very simple set. Earthquake hits stuff and kills them, Stone Edge defeats Ho-Oh, Swords Dance and Rock Polish are both pivotal to the Double Dance sweep. It's simple but hits shit hard. I don't run Dragon Claw over Stone Edge in spite of the fact that Stone Edge blows hard, because this prevents me from running into too much trouble with Ho-Oh.

    Optional Changes
    I have no idea. Could someone advise me on the EV spread? I'm pretty sure it isn't optimized…

    [​IMG]
    Mewtwo @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psystrike
    - Aura Sphere
    - Ice Beam
    - Calm Mind

    The most deadly sweeper in the game returns. Mewtwo is strong, fast and can now beat Chansey/Blissey without a sweat! Psystrike is a great move which allows me to maim Palkia, Kyogre and Chansey switch-ins. Kyogre in particular is crushed by Psystrike; even though +0 Psystrike isn't a OHKO, it waters down (heh) Kyogre's Water Spout to manageable levels. I tend to reserve Mewtwo for the late-game, where it can hopefully sweep. However, I may bring it out against threats like Monoattacker Kyogre (who isn't nice for this team to face) and try to beat them mid-game.

    Set Explanation
    The moveset is pretty simple. Calm Mind boosts Mewtwo's already-high SpA to massive levels, allowing it to beat opposing Mewtwo with Psystrike. Psystrike needs no explanation; Aura Sphere kills Darkrai and Tyranitar, and Ice Beam hits many Dragon-type Pokemon for massive damage.

    Optional Changes
    Fire Blast over Ice Beam. My team is Sun-based, so perhaps Fire Blast would help me beat stuff more easily? All Ice-weak Dragons are KOed by +1 Psystrike… However, I'm not really sure what Fire Blast could hit (maybe Forretress and Scizor). The only coverage problem that might arise is with Giratina, but it doesn't really matter as Giratina-O already buttrapes Mewtwo...

    Threatlist

    • Lugia
      Lugia is an annoyance to every team, but this team especially despises it. I normally have to rely on Arceus' burns to slowly kill it along with damage from Groudon's Stone Edge and Mewtwo's Ice Beams, but it's still an annoyance, especially because it switches in on Rayquaza or Palkia.
    • Arceus-Normal
      Wow, screw this guy. I run a relatively solid check in the form of Arceus, but if Will-o-Wisp misses, I might as well say 'I lose'. Goddammit, 70 acc is fucking pathetic, but it's all I have. Jolly Max+ variants are simple unless they carry Life Orb, because even +4 Leftovers Extremespeed doesn't KO Groudon. All I have to say is that I hate misses.
    • Monoattacker Kyogre
      Ok. This one is a jackass. I hate playing mindgames, because if Mewtwo switches in on a Surf (or worse, a boosted one), it dies. However, if I can get Mewtwo in on a Rest (normally when they try to set up on Palkia) I can hope to get +1 and finish it off with Psystrike. Dialga is also a pretty cool guy who deals big damage with Outrage. I find that the main weakness of this set is its lack of Speed, meaning Groudon can actually remove a weakened one. Even so, if this set is well-played, it can pose a big threat to my team.
    • There's definitely a lot of other threats that you guys can point out (and I'm too lazy to point out elaborately; CM Arceus if it's able to set up on Palkia, Double Dance Groudon).
    • Hax
      Be it misses or crits, hax always finds a way to ruin my laddering attempts. Fuck hax. Still, I find it annoying that people complain about hax in PO being more than hax in-game. Play the cartridges more, people. Crits happen practically every other match for me :pirate:


    Conclusion

    So there's my team and a brief threatlist, Smogon. Please help me to improve this team by providing constructive rates. Thanks!
  2. alex 67

    alex 67

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    269
    Hi, this looks like a pretty solid team. The only thing I would change is to put Thunder over Outrage on Palkia. Groudon is not going to mind a weakly invested Outrage anyway with it's titanic defense and Outrage and it's shitty side effects will easily make you set up bait. Just get rocks up and Ho-oh becomes easier to handle. As for Fire blast over Ice Beam on Mewtwo I'd at least consider it because it lets you BBQ Ferrothorn who could probably offer a significant amount of resistance otherwise and almost every Steel used in Ubers has a second type that makes them neutral to Aura Sphere. Also, since the sun will be up most of the time it will be like a second STAB.
  3. sammao

    sammao

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Messages:
    224
    a very solid team, I do have a few comments though:

    You can replace outrage on Palkia and Dialga with something else since all of your team members already has a way to deal with Chansey/Blissey.

    On Dialga, you can drop all the attack ev and put them all in atk or spd, and replace outrage with thunder, aura sphere or an attack that is more useful.

    For Palkia, I still suggest you to put Draco Meteor over Outrage, also since you are not using Kyogre, surf seems kind of odd, I suggest replacing it with thunder so you can counter kyogre more reliably.

    For a rock polish Groudon this generation a good speed number to aim is 260 speed that allow you to outspeed scarf 108+ after a rock polish, mainly Terrakion. This require 176 ev in speed if you are Adamant. Also, maybe Life Orb>leftovers

    Hope this helps!
  4. guanlong

    guanlong

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    188
    Hey, thanks for the rates everybody! I'd like to address your rates point by point...

    • Thunder over Outrage on Palkia
      I've made this change. I've been meaning to do this, as it gives me a way to hurt Lugia and Kyogre more reliably. Thanks.
    • Fire Blast > Ice Beam on Mewtwo
      I'm still on the fence for this one... However, one point in Fire Blast's favour is that Ferrothorn doesn't take a whole lot of damage from +0 Aura Sphere.
    • No more Outrage on Palkia and Dialga
      Alright, I've made this change. Roar on Dialga (who is now Modest 252/252/4) and Thunder on Palkia. However, Outrage meant that Dialga could serve as a last-ditch check for weakened Manaphy under the sun...
    • 176 Speed RP Groudon
      This is the controversial change. I find that 176 Spe really detracts from Groudon's bulk, and the analysis advises 136 Spe. Can anyone else give their opinion on this? Or could a different Groudon set (eg the Paradancer variant) work better?

    Anyway, thanks for the rates.
    [/LIST]
  5. alex 67

    alex 67

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    269
    For Groudon I'm thinking the really bulky variant with Impish and a loaded up defense could really benefit your team. Try Stealth Rock/Toxic/Thunder Wave with EQ, Stone edge and Dragon Tail. This would allow Dialga to switch Stealth Rock with something else if you run Stealth Rock. If you run Toxic/Thunder Wave you could easily cripple Lugia (who you mentioned as a threat) especially since Groudon easily lures it in. Most importantly though you get another answer to Extreme Arceus as you can phaze it with dragon tail or cripple it. (Since it's running so rampant having more then one answer is ideal).

    Edit: I would keep Outrage on Dialga. Having a powerful attack to fall back on once you use DM is always useful and it strengthens your team against Kyogre and Chansey/Blissey.
  6. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,614
    Actually, 136 Speed EVs is just good for Groudon. You don't need 176 because you only outspeed like max speed Deoxys-S(I don't remember that being used for anything else other than suicide leading). You might want to run 212 if you are paranoid about Scarf Mewtwo, but other than that it should be fine.
  7. guanlong

    guanlong

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    188
    Alright, thanks for rates!

    I'll test them out when I have time, but I like the idea of physically defensive Groudon. I hate it when WoW misses on Normal Arceus and I'm fucked. However, it'll lose me the only true powerful physical attacker on my team... I suppose Mewtwo is a pseudo-physical attacker...?

    What do you people think? Is a main physical sweeper more important than a backup check for the Extremekiller? Sorry for not responding earlier!
  8. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,614
    Mewtwo, with Psystrike, is capable of destroying the special walls that can wall it. Psystrike OHKOs Blissey without any DEF investment, while iirc +1 Psystrike OHKOs the physically bulkiest of Blissey.

    IMO Terrakion could probably run Groudon's set better if you want a main physical attacker. It's faster than a lot of things in Ubers unboosted while still hitting relatively hard. If you do want to keep Groudon though, make it a backup for Extremekiller in case SteelCeus dies or something.

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