Team Rating Workshop

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Tangerine

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For some time now, the RMT forum has lacked the manpower to rate all of the teams that are posted... or rather, lacked the quality of raters.

While there may be an issue with "incentive" (obviously, TR badge may not be worth it for whatever reasons), that's not the point of this post. I believe we should work on raising the quality of the raters that are there. Obviously, the sticky isn't enough.

For this, I propose a Team Rating workshop - where users can link to the rates, and we can have well established team raters take a look at the rates and see how they would improve. I think it might definitely help :)
 
I have been trying to Rate as many teams as possible an as ive practised ive definitely improved others have started to help as well Haunter has been helpful and recently Locopoke and new users Tab and TarquinMacdonald have been having a good go.

Some of the members that currently have the Team Rater badge simply rarely post (from what ive seen), perhaps they should.

I was thinking that because so many RMTs come in each day it may be an idea to cap the no. of new threads allowed in the RMT forum as it is there is simply to much traffic.

I agree with this and I was thinking it could be very helpful for those who need a Rate to get quality rates instead of basically poor useless pedantic one line posts which are completely unhelpful.

If the workshop was done i think it would be interesting for participants to submit work on a flawed example RMT then thier submissions could be analysed and they could see where they went wrong. Seeing flawless rates would also be very helpful.

I think perhaps one of the reasons team raters are unmotivated is because often our advice is ignored regardless of what we suggest will make the team better or not, obviously there are occasions where the raters are wrong.
 
I've been rating teams occasionally, but I would certainly like to get some real advice on how to do it better. This is totally something I would want to get involved in.
 

Erazor

✓ Just Doug It
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I rate a lot of UU teams, and I think that I've become pretty decent at it. However, I definitely want to become much better, and hence I like this proposal.(I also want a badge, but whatever...)

iKitsune is right, there are a LOT of RMTs coming in these days. So there is just no time to rate even half of them.
 
I'd definately like to see this.

I try to rate teams that are posted whenever I can think of something to add, but I know that I could improve a lot at rating, especially if a workshop were introduced.
 
Well, I liked the idea...a workshop would be good to improve some rates (when you post a team sometimes one good rate is much better than 5 or 6 poor ones) and I'll start to rate some teams (liek one per day or so) to help =D
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
I have been trying to Rate as many teams as possible an as ive practised ive definitely improved others have started to help as well Haunter has been helpful and recently Locopoke and new user Tab has been having a good go.

Some of the members that currently have the Team Rater badge simply rarely post (from what ive seen) in it, perhaps they should.
Eheh, I'm happy that someone noticed my involvement in team rating. ^__^

Definitely I agree with iKitsune about the official team raters being quite inactive (note: this is not an accusation against them)

Tangerine said:
I propose a Team Rating workshop - where users can link to the rates, and we can have well established team raters take a look at the rates and see how they would improve. I think it might definitely help :)
That would be a very good idea, I'd like to help if I can.
 
I can help on this, I had been rating teams a lot during December 2008. I did one just the other week. I would like to get better at rating teams, I've lost my touch since a while back ago where I could just do it. Probably because Taylor left.
 

locopoke

Banned deucer.
I have been trying to Rate as many teams as possible an as ive practised ive definitely improved others have started to help as well Haunter has been helpful and recently Locopoke and new users Tab and TarquinMacdonald have been having a good go.

Some of the members that currently have the Team Rater badge simply rarely post (from what ive seen), perhaps they should.

I was thinking that because so many RMTs come in each day it may be an idea to cap the no. of new threads allowed in the RMT forum as it is there is simply to much traffic.

I agree with this and I was thinking it could be very helpful for those who need a Rate to get quality rates instead of basically poor useless pedantic one line posts which are completely unhelpful.

If the workshop was done i think it would be interesting for participants to submit work on a flawed example RMT then thier submissions could be analysed and they could see where they went wrong. Seeing flawless rates would also be very helpful.

I think perhaps one of the reasons team raters are unmotivated is because often our advice is ignored regardless of what we suggest will make the team better or not, obviously there are occasions where the raters are wrong.

Eh, thanks for the mention iKitsune! Anyway yeah, recently I've been very involved in the RMT forum, rating a few teams everyday. I'd be glad to get involved and help with this project, it sounds fun and I'm sure the teams posted will benefit from it.
 
This sounds great, and I'd probably benefit from a program like this as well (I mean I do make long rates but I'm often stumped sometimes as to what someone should do when I help them out and I really hate having to say, "you'll have to figure this one out on your own"). Although I have to admit that with some RMTs you put in more work and research to fix it than the poster did to create it--and sometimes they just ignore you.

Also--and I know it's unfeasible but it's just a thought--maybe we could have a team of people who would test out certain highlighted RMTs to see how they worked in order to gain better info on what needs to be fixed, but that's a bit of a time consuming process and we'd need to cap RMTs posted per day like iKitsune said--'sides, shouldn't posters be doing that themselves (although there are a few that do that just need the help, I guess)?
 

Legacy Raider

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This is a fantastic idea and I'd like to help.
^^

This is a really good initiative. There are so many teams being posted and so few quality rates that untouched teams are ending up halfway down the second page. Increasing the pool of knowledgeable raters is a great idea.
 
I really like this idea, Erasor, Haunter, and locopoke have definantly been helping the RMT out

I only input what I know, which isn't very much TBH.

Once I learn the meta even better I'd be interested.
 

joshe

the best
joshe joins the fray

I'd love to help with this. although I don't rate teams much right now(once a week or so), I put a lot of time into my posts. Life is so busy right now, that whoever whats me to rate their team can just PM me, and I'll waste(for lack of a better word. I like rating them)my time, testing, and further bettering there team with my help. I like to test teams before i rate them, and I know first hand what I'm talking about. It's not that hard to rate a team, you just have to know what your doing and just try using the team ^_^

I wouldn't really say that there is a lack of raters (there is not many consistent ones, without badges), but some of the team posters are just too reluctant to even look at what the rater wants changed, and just shrug of their post by saying, for example, that Mixmence(with roost) does not have the survivability of specsmence. Why would someone even say that when the rater has suggested roost with it, saying what it does and how it helps. It just makes me think sometimes that the team posters, just post them to say "look at my team, I'm never going to use it again" (many do this, although a lot of them are accomplished teams, and don't really need a rate but just rather like to "show off").

Anyways, I'd love to help anyone needing help. You just gotta try what suggest before you rate or judge.

EDIT: its not just the lack of team raters. What I was trying to get through in the second paragraph is the ignorance of team posters, some not even willing to change there team, even when they posted it in the first place. We are always trying to help whoever needs help, and sometimes its just not worth it. We just need in our rating posts to somehow further convince the rater to make sure they change it, with us knowing that the change will further help the team (thats why we suggested it right ^_^). Like it says in the rules, back up your rates, make sure they know everything about what you suggest, why you suggested it, some reasons why it would help, and why it would improve the team overall. Honestly, its not hard to do a full rate or to explain your suggestion, even if its something simple like 'change one of gyarados' moves to earthquake.' Its not that hard to get a paragraph of why you suggested it, how it would help, and why it works over, say, ice fang. It makes you look better, and, more importantly, it makes smogon look better. I hope someone actually read this.

EDIT2:I'm not a double post guy, so I'll answer or just give some thought into Aeolus' post. What I think we could do is to make a "team rater help thread" sticky, where more experienced team raters can occasionally help or give advice on what they look for in a team rate, so new/inexperienced users can look at that advice, copy their style, and produce more team rates and help. Then, hopefully, they will develop there own style(possibly getting a badge on their way), and pass on there style to the next generation of smogoners, and so forth. What I'm basically saying is just have a sticky, with experienced team raters posting a biography/essay like post of what they look for when rating a team, what they define as synergy, how they usually describe their suggestions/battling advice, etc... I'm sure many would benefit from this, and will help further pool many new team raters, which is what we are trying to accomplish here. I'm sorry if this was confusing, I even confused myself and had to read my entire post, along with this thread 12 times lol. I have many ideas, if your willing to hear them, and I can further expand on my idea of that sticky if you'd like.
 
I defiantly want to be involved in this.

We honestly do need alot more raters out there because the teams come in like landslides every day :|
 

Aeolus

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I'm not really sure how this would work. I would imagine a "team rater workshop" being a place new raters would go to learn how to do team rates... I'm not sure how that could be different from having a "team rating tutorial" sticky or saying "model your rating style after people with the team rating badge." The one way I can imagine this being different, and helpful, would be to have a tutor/apprentice program almost where new raters are coached by experienced ones for a while. Since that seems overblown to me... I'm not sure what to say.

The people who would be interested in becoming better team raters could more easily read a sticky and emulate a style than sign up for a workshop. Further, I'd rather have the people who would be teaching the workshops spend their time rating teams rather than critiquing teamrates that have already been done by others.

Maybe you could expound a bit more, Tangerine? I'm not sure what benefit this offers over and above a thorough sticky tutorial and telling new people to emulate badged users.
 
I would love to participate in this. I don't ladder all too often, but I do know the ins and outs of several metagames, and often I don't post in RMTs, especially the "better" ones, because I don't feel that my criticisms or suggestions will be good enough or accepted. A workshop on what to look for and how to suggest/improve teams would be very helpful.

I also see this as a learning oppurtunity to improve one's own team building; by looking for what to improve in others, yo ucan look at your own team and see what can be changed there.
 

Tangerine

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I'm not really sure how this would work. I would imagine a "team rater workshop" being a place new raters would go to learn how to do team rates... I'm not sure how that could be different from having a "team rating tutorial" sticky or saying "model your rating style after people with the team rating badge." The one way I can imagine this being different, and helpful, would be to have a tutor/apprentice program almost where new raters are coached by experienced ones for a while. Since that seems overblown to me... I'm not sure what to say.

The people who would be interested in becoming better team raters could more easily read a sticky and emulate a style than sign up for a workshop. Further, I'd rather have the people who would be teaching the workshops spend their time rating teams rather than critiquing teamrates that have already been done by others.

Maybe you could expound a bit more, Tangerine? I'm not sure what benefit this offers over and above a thorough sticky tutorial and telling new people to emulate badged users.
Eventually, it should be a "team rating tutorial" Sticky after the entire workshop is finished - although my sticky on the RMT forum do cover that. I opened it so people can ask questions. I don't think the Sticky works very well overall since it's usually a few unique quirks in the team rater that makes their rates mediocre, not something general.

Yeah, what I have in mind is something between this sticky and a full blown program. What a sticky tutorial doesn't have is the personal aspect - considering that even though my sticky has been around for ages, I don't think many users read them at all... or at least, they claim that they had read it, but in the end, they don't improve.

We can do this by...

1) Pick a team, and either have a) the lecturer comment on the team or b) the lecturer starts a discussion regarding the team with a few other team rater hopefuls. This should be a good start.

2) A peer system, where we can get two team rater hopefuls together, and have them peer review their own submissions.

3) Something I used to do when I used to rate teams was also comment on the rates of a given team. It might be too much to our "current" team raters, but we might be able to get a few well established people to rate the rates while they're rating the team.

4) A sticky, where team raters can post questions and hopefully someone well established will answer.

Telling someone to emulate one's style is a terrible, terrible, idea when it comes to team building. It's like telling people "post like Jumpman16" and expecting people to become proficient debaters, so we should avoid that.

I'm not sure if I agree with preferring users to rate teams instead of critiquing another person - I rather help another person be a good team rater so we get another helping hand. It's a little sacrifice, but if we can improve our current recruit of team rater hopefuls, it's well worth it - 5 people rating teams is generally better than one.
 

LonelyNess

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I'd like to think I give quality advice to all of the UU RMTs that I rate, so if you need more help with this, I am available.
 
How would a team rating workshop be any different to a team building workshop? Surely these skills are closely linked. If you can see what's wrong in a team and make changes surely you have a decent idea of what works in making a team. I just think that though we need a boost in the quality of rates, you can't just do this with a Q&A sticky or whatever because it requires people to have a certain level of knowledge in the first place. As soon as you're teaching people about counters and what not to use in a team, you're teaching them team building skills as well and really, we have guides in place for people to learn these things. People just get lazy and don't read them. If anything I think boosting the amount of battling 101 opening would be helpful as we are then improving on the average level of poke-knowledge.
 

Bad Ass

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if i felt like doing so (or if the rmts themselves weren't shit/people took your advice) i could rate teams really well. i had a run at a badge a month or so ago, and people told me my rates were solid, helpful, etc.


bad ass reporting for duty
 
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