1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

DPP OU Team Su(b)perior Democracy

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by HECTORtu, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. HECTORtu

    HECTORtu matty is gay for me!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    251
    This was all written by my student,Zeta, he's just a bit paranoid and didn't want to post it, so I'm doing him a favor.

    Team Su(b)perior Democracy.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Intro:

    So, it's time for me to post a rate my team. I was browsing through some topics on Stark Mountain, where I came across a topic from Colonel M promoting the use of SubRhyperior. I thought it would probably be a good idea trying out a team with Rhyperior in it. I thought long and hard on how to promote this team to the fullest using Pokemon that I liked (since I like to build teams like that) and Pokemon that also work. Seeing this set made me realise how underestimated and destructive Rhyperior is and how effective it can work in OU play, especially with Sandstorm in play. Awesome defences + great HP + phenomenal offensive properties = one heck of a Pokemon.

    Now, at a glance, you may notice that the team is pretty slow, though this is a disadvantage, this team still works out together with status, defensive properties and "picking off" opponents thanks to Scizor in particular.

    This team is meant to promote Rhyperior in a way by eliminating it's counters and general counters and possible threats so that Rhyperior can come in, get a Sub up and commence sweeping wherever possible. This team is currently on a good record on the Smogon server.

    I called this team "Su(b)perior Democracy" because it's a team with SubRhyperior in it, and my mate just brought "Chinese Democracy", lol.


    Closer look:


    [​IMG]

    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers *** Terra Bestia
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 236 HP / 24 Atk / 192 Def / 58 SDef
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Stealth Rock
    - Slack Off

    Hippowdon is my lead. It's been quite and effective one at that, too. Getting Stealth Rock and Sandstorm up as soon as possible is obligatory and also negates the effects of Focus Sash which could otherwise be a pain in the backside with sacrificing and stuff with certain Sashers.

    With Tyranitar being a problem when Scizor is down in particular, I needed to have something which could both: a) take down Tyranitar and b) take on most Physical threats effectively. Hippowdon can do both. Ice Fang's demand since Garchomp was banned isn't as great, but it still comes in handy with Salamences and Flygons. Having a good recovery move is also helpful.

    The EVs allow me to maximizes HP and defensive capabilities. 236 HP allow me to hit a stat of 416, a leftovers number. With 192 Def my Defensiveness are pretty decent. 24 atk allow me to be guarantees at least a 2HKO on Flygon and a definate 2HKO on Salamence after Intimidate and Stealth Rock / Life Orb / Sand storm have taken effect. The leftover EVs are dumped straight in SDef so Hippowdon is capable of taking random Hidden Powers.

    "Terra Bestia" means "Earth Beast" in Latin. Since Hippowdon is a Ground type, sturdy and bulky, the name only seems fitting.

    ---

    [​IMG]

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers *** Definition of Obesity
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 84 HP / 252 Def / 40 SAtk / 134 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    - Softboiled

    Blissey. Probably the most reliable Special wall ever. Since my team couldn't really handle Special attackers without this, it needed to be incorporated. Most Blisseys would carry 252 HP / 252 Def as their spread, but since I'm wanting it to fulfill it's duty as a Special Wall, I had to invest and enormous amount of SDef EVs so I could take on those SpecsJolteons, etcetera. Ice Beam is there for Gengars since I can't hit them with Seismic Toss, and for those SpecsMences. Dugtrio is 2HKO'd by Ice Beam on switch with Stealth Rock up on the switch, so it takes care of that too. Toxic is for those Zapdos' and Rest-lacking CMCunes who try to set up otherwise. Since I can't OHKO them with either attacking moves, Toxic is a great move which helps. Also helps with Statusing those Physical switch-ins. Seismic Toss allows me to break those Subs of Special attackers.

    Since I sacrificed a significant amount of EVs into both defences, I was left with some EVs I could play around with also. 84 HP gives me 672 HP, which, if you divide by 16, gives you a leftovers number (similar concept to Hippowdon's distribution of HP EVs) - that number being 42. As previously mentioned, 40 SAtk allows me to 2HKO Dugtrio on the switch with Stealth Rock damage since Earthquake shouldn't OHKO Blissey; OHKO Salamence (in particular SpecsMence) on switch after Stealth Rock damage, and 2HKOs 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe Zapdos after Stealth Rock damage.

    Having Natural Cure, Blissey can walk into those Status inflicting moves such as Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, which would otherwise harm the rest of my team and in particular, Rhyperior. I'm thinking of changing this to either the Cleric variant of Blissey since switching Blissey in and out gets predictable and can be a pain. I'm also thinking of changing the current Blissey for a WishBliss giving Rhyperior and Scizor surivivability. Why I haven't done so already is simple: most of the times I don't need to pass Wish onto Rhyperior / Scizor and other Pokemon already have recovery moves of their own. This does not rule out the possible implementation of WishBliss, however.

    "Definition of Obesity" is a name I find completely necessary for Blissey. Just look at her. 'Nuff said, right?

    ---

    [​IMG]

    Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers *** Yadoran
    Ability: Own Tempo
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SAtk
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Slack Off
    - Surf
    - Thunder Wave
    - Hidden Power [Electric] / Grass knot

    Oh. My. Goodness. Yadoran. I cannot express how happy I am to see this guy on my team - I've always looked for a place to put this on other teams, though that's not been possible. Until now. I would also like to say thanks to Elevator Music for letting people know how great Slowbro is.

    Well, onto the Analysis. Slowbro is my Gyarados, Machamp, Heatran, and MixApe counter. Surf OHKOs Infernape and Heatran and Hidden Power [Electric] 2HKOs Gyarados. Thanks to Slowbro's resistance to DynamicPunch + it's immunity to the confusion side-effect, Slowbro makes the perfect Machamp counter, 3HKOing it with Surf whilst Machamp's next best bet, Stone Edge, is 4HKO without Stealth Rock or 3HKO with Stealth Rock, but Slack off can always help regain health so that's not really much of a problem.

    Slowbro is a great status inflicter, spamming Thunder Wave around like nothing at all. Damaging incoming Zapdos' and sometimes the odd Gengar switch-in.

    I'm currently thinking about replacing Hidden Power [Electric] with Grass Knot because it has suddenly caught my attention that I have issues with ResTalk Curse Swamperts. Yes, I can use Roar to phaze the status increases, but can't do much in the meantime. Grass Knot still gives me the 2HKO that Hidden Power [Electric] would on Gyarados, and sort out the issue of countering Swamperts. So it is certainly a possibility. At the moment, I'm testing it out.

    As long as Slowbro carries Grass knot, I can also deal with a threat to Rhyperior: Swampert.

    The EVs in HP give me a stat of 384, which, if you divide by 16 gives me another leftovers recovery number of 24. With the addition of maxed Defence, defences are maximized. The remainder EVs were added to SAtk so I can 2HKO Gyarados after SR damage.

    Yadoran is Slowbro's Japanese name and I like it. So... yeah.

    ---

    [​IMG]

    Zapdos @ Leftovers *** HECTOR
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Spd / 80 SAtk
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost
    - Roar/ HP Grass
    - Thunderbolt

    Zapdos. A vital member of my team and probably the Pokemon I rely on the most to bring a good and clean sweep with Rhyperior - being the main counter to most of Rhyperior's own counters. Since I don't have a Rapid Spinner, and Zapdos is my only Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon, I figured Roost would be a good move to give Zapdos. But it's still good as a general recovery move. Zapdos is also my Phazer with Roar, since my team is otherwise easily set up on. Zapdos servers as my main Lucario, non-scarfed Heracross, Bronzong, Celebi, Breloom, Torterra, Skarmory, Forretress and [insert Bulky Water] counter. From that list alone, you can tell that without it, holes are shown. If it wasn't for Zapdos, I'd probably have dificulty taking down the aforementioned Pokemon.

    Celebi, Torterra, Breloom, Bronzong, and Skarmory are particular counters to Rhyperior. Thanks to Heat Wave in particular, these are no longer major threats since Zapdos outspeeds the standard sets of these Pokemon.

    With the given EVs, Zapdos is both Bulky and offensive: maximizing HP and having enough Spd to outspeed Adamant / Modest Lucario and Adamant Heracross to name the least. The remaining EVs going into SAtk to back up Zapdos' chances of OHKOing the mentioned threats to the team and other Pokemon in general.

    Zapdos is named after my tutor HECTOR because he's awesome and funny. He also helped me out with this team, though he was against some things. Like Slowbro. ;-; It's also his favourite bird. =]

    ---

    [​IMG]

    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band *** Schaft
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Scizor. My main revenge killer, Psychic / Ghost trapper and scouter. At first, I was a bit reluctant to implement CBScizor into this team > SD Scizor. Now I know it was a good decision. Being able to pick-off foes with Bullet Punch is amazing, with the additional STAB, Technician boost, and Choice Band boost, it's a force to be reckoned with. Salamence being OHKO'd by Bullet Punch if ever Hippowdon is dead after Stealth Rock damage; Mamoswine being OHKO'd by Bullet Punch, general Ice Pokemon, too. This goes for frail, faster foes too, such as Azelf and Gengar who are killed by Bullet Punch, or if I predict a switch because they are at moderate health, by Pursuit. It's also good to Pursuit the lights of fleeing Celebi and Cresselias and Blisseys who are never mad enough to stay in fearing Brick Break or Superpower. Brick Break is for those steel types like Magnezone and Heatran who try to come in on me. It also helps break those annoying Reflect / Light Screens. U-turn, naturally, gives me the element of scouting as well as damaging my opponent at the same time. Helpful for getting out of those tight situations and allows me to switch to an appropriate counter. STABbed, Choice Banded U-Turn hurts foes alot. A great Pokemon who supports this team well.

    EVs give me the "all-out" approach: maximzing Attack for power and speed for outspeeding Tyranitar and standard Magnezone. If it dare stay in.

    Scizor is named after Schaft. An old tutor of mine who has, unfortunately, retired from full-time competitive battling. I know Schaft likes Scizor, so thats another reason too. Schaft also pwns like Scizor.

    ---

    [​IMG]

    Rhyperior (M) @ Leftovers *** RAWRPERIOR
    Ability: Solid Rock
    EVs: 132 HP/192 Atk/168 Spd/16 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    The Rock of the Show: Rhyperior. I must thank Colonel M for this set next time we battle. This thing is seriously underestimated because of it's weaknesses. Sandstorm's SDef increase + Substitute + 404 HP + 400 Atk + great defence + Solid Rock (which, if you didn't know, reduces the damage of super effective moves from x2 to x1.5) = epicness. Switch this into Blissey and Sub up could mean Good game. Blissey, if it was mad enough, wouldn't even be able to break This beast's Subs with Seismic Toss or Ice Beam. Substitute and Swords Dance is a lethal combination, for if Substitute is up and an SD is done, Rhyperior reaches a massive 800 attack stat! With the speed allowing Rhyperior to outmanuver Swampert (a major counter to Rhyperior) who is OHKO'd by Earthquake. Machamp is OHKO'd and so is Porygon2, by Eathquake. In some games, putting this in has meant Good game and has brought me many 6-0s and 5-0s. Earthquake is a great move already, but with Stone Edge hitting Flyers, things just keep on getting better with great coverage given between the two moves.

    Just so you know what this guy is capable of, here are a few facts (produced by Colonel M):
    • Timid Heatran's Earth Power is a 3HKO
    • Zapdos Hidden Power Ice won't 2HKO Rhyperior (with Life Orb)
    • Blissey's Ice Beam won't break the Substitute (as well as Seismic Toss)
    • Bronzong and Forretress's Gyro Ball won't break the Substitute
    • Cresselia can only break it with Grass Knot (which is extremely uncommon)
    • Physical Jirachi that lack Iron Head are walled by this beast.
    • Salamence Earthquake is a 2HKO at best
    • Scizor won't OHKO with Bullet Punch
    • Gliscor Earthquake won't 2HKO
    So, as you can see, the EVs play a major part in the sucess of this beast.

    Rhyperior has it's own unique nickname: RAWRPERIOR (credits to Colonel M). Fitting. I must say.

    ---

    Conclusion

    In conlusion, this team is slow, though the defence and the status affliction does somewhat compensate for that disadvantage. Oh, and Rhyperior pwns. Did I mention that? :P

    I hope you have enjoyed reading this and will find it a good team and possibly, you could help and give suggestions / opinions on it. Thanks. =]


    Team Edits:
  2. HECTORtu

    HECTORtu matty is gay for me!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    251
    Team Building

    To come to a decision in what Pokemon should be put in this team, supporting Rhyperior, and staying balanced at the same time, I first had to come up with a threat list of Pokemon in general and Pokemon that could counter those threats depending on their sets. I did all of this without any aid of Smogon since at the time I was grounded and walls left with only me, my mind and a paper and pen. I did all this in my "Book of Pokemon notes" and this is exactly what I wrote (can't be bothered to scan the notes), so I may have missed off some counters:


    Comprehensive threat list and counters:

    Abomasnow: Scizor and Metagross.

    Azelf: Scizor, Spiritomb, Tyranitar, Blissey, Cresselia and Houndoom.

    Blissey: Machamp, Dugtrio, almost anything physical and faster and with the capability to kill her without taking much in return.

    Breloom Zapdos. ResTalk Rotom-h.

    Dugtrio: Slowbro, Suicune - general BulkyWaters or anything that can take an Earthquake.

    Suicune: Blissey can take non-rest Suicunes with the combination of Toxic + Seismic toss. BulkyWaters which can take Surf work also.

    Salamence: Hippowdon, Porygon2

    Raikou: Blissey and Dugtrio.

    Kingdra: Empoleon, Slowbro.

    Zapdos: Blissey, Tyranitar, Cresselia, Swampert, Hippowdon

    Tyranitar: Bronzong, Hippowdon

    Heatran: Porygon2, Cresselia, Tyranitar, Blissey, BulkyWater.

    Rhyperior: Suicune, Celebi, Breloom, Torterra, Rotom-W

    Scizor: Heatran, Zapdos, Rotom-h

    Mamoswine: Bronzong, Rotom-h, Scizor, Vaporeon / BulkyWater, Suicune, Slowbro

    Lucario: Scizor, Rotom-H, Slowbro, Hippowdon

    Rotom (all formes) Blissey (non-trick variants), T-Tar, Cresselia, Scizor (non-Will-O-Wisp)

    Gengar: Scizor, Blissey, Tyranitar

    Celebi: Heatran, Scizor, Rotom-h, Houndoom, Weavile

    Slowbro: Scizor

    Yanmega: Heatran, Blissey, Rotom, Mamoswine, Zapdos

    Magnezone: Scizor, Dugtrio, Blissey

    Starmie: Scizor, Blissey

    Gyarados: Zapdos, [Bulky water with Hidden Power [Electric] / Grass Knot], Rotom formes

    Heracross: Zapdos, Rotom-h

    Cresselia: Scizor, Tyranitar, Weavile, Houndoom

    BulkyWater: Zapdos, Blissey

    Machamp: Slowbro, Gliscor

    Togekiss: Blissey, Rotom, Bronzong

    Porygon-Z Blissey, Bronzong

    Jolteon: Blissey, Bronzong, Porygon2, Dugtrio

    Swampert: Grass / Grass knot, Celebi

    Metagross: Hippowdon, Rotom-h, Zapdos (to an extent), Swampert

    Flygon: Hippowdon

    Jirachi: Heatran, Hippowdon, Blissey

    Skarmory: Rotom forme, Zapdos

    Forretress: Zapdos, Heatran, Rotom

    Blissey: Machamp, Dugtrio, Rhyperior / physical attackers

    Hippowdon: Grass Knot / Celebi, Bulkywater

    Aerodactyl: Hippowdon, Slowbro, bulkywater

    Gliscor: BulkyWater, Slowbro

    Snorlax: Machamp, Rhyperior

    Infernape: Cresselia, BulkyWater



    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Rhyperior threat list and counters:


    Okay, so from discovering, what Pokemon countered the general threat list, I needed to know what Pokemon also helped counter the Pokemon which were counters to Rhyperior. This would help Rhyperior's effectiveness on the team since it's weaknesses make it hard to come into Pokemon, and eliminating it's threats could help it come into more Pokemon and end the game quickly. The list is as follows:


    Suicune: Blissey can take non-rest Suicunes with the combination of Toxic + Seismic toss. BulkyWaters which can take Surf work also.

    Celebi: Heatran, Scizor, Rotom-h, Houndoom, Weavile

    Scizor: Heatran, Zapdos, Rotom-h, Swampert

    Gyarados: Zapdos, [Bulky water with Hidden Power [Electric] / Grass Knot], Rotom formes

    Rotom (all formes) Blissey (non-trick variants), T-Tar, Cresselia

    Machamp: Slowbro, Gliscor

    BulkyWater: Zapdos, Blissey


    ------------------------------------------------------------


    Threat list counter tally.

    Okay, so from there I took a list of all the Pokemon that countered the "threat list Pokemon" including the Pokemon who countered the Rhyperior-threats and then tallied them up to see which Pokemon countered most of the threat list; this would help me know what Pokemon could help me sustain a balanced team by analyzing Pokemon and their potential on the team, help me with Rhyperior and help me with countering Pokemon. It goes in the following format:


    Code:
    Pokemon | Pokemon countered on the general threat list | Pokemon countered from the Rhyperior threat list



    Blissey | 12 | 4

    Tyranitar : 7 : 2

    Scizor : 9 : 1

    Heatran : 8 : 3

    Hippowdon : 7 : 0

    Porygon2 : 4 : 1

    Dugtrio : 3 : 0

    Slowbro : 6 : 2

    Rotom (General formes) : 7 : 1

    Cresselia : 8 : 1

    Swampert : 7 : 1

    Bronzong : 4 : 0

    Celebi : 3 : 3

    Zapdos : 10 : 3

    Vaporeon : 2 : 1

    Suicune : 4 : 1

    Machamp: 2 : 0

    Gliscor : 4 : 1

    Lucario : 1 : 0

    Starmie : 6 : 0

    ---

    From there, I referred back to te Comprehensive threat list and saw what Pokemon countered what. I wouldn't want to have both Rotom and Zapdos on the same team, for example, since they both generally did the same job - to an extent. I was looking for Pokemon who did the best job of countering X and supporting Y (Y being Rhyperior / Other Pokemon on the team).


    From the "threat list counter tally, none of the Pokemon which had the highest counter rates, like Cresselia, had a guaranteed spot on this team. For, as you can see, it may not help in the long run.

    I wanted to use a team which followed the team structure which I was wanting to keep:

    • Two Physical Walls since the current Metagame is physically based.
    • One Special Wall
    • One Bulky attacker (preferably special-based)
    • One trapper / Psychic killer / steel type
    • Rhyperior.
    ... So, I first started to look for my Physical walls. I chose from the following Possbilities:

    Hippowdon, Porygon2, Gliscor, Slowbro, Rotom-H, Cresselia, Bronzong, Celebi, Zapdos, Vaporeon, Suicune.

    For a Physical-pair, I was looking for two Pokemon switch supported each other type-wise, good recovery between the two, and a status inflicter, in particular, a Thunder Waver. I was prepared to let one type shared weakness, but that was about it. I realised that out of those Pokemon, Hippowdon was a good lead and Physical wall: being able to put up Stealth Rock and counter seven Pokemon from the threat list. I then looked at the types I needed to cover from what Hippowdon left open: Grass, Ice, and Water - remember, I still needed a Thunder Waver!

    Looking at the remaining possibilities, I realised that none of those Pokemon could resist all three of those types. So, I norrowed the list down to Pokemon which could resist two of those types, have good recovery and use Thunder Wave. As well as pair well with Hippowdon to counter most Physical threats. I got the following Pokemon:

    Slowbro and Celebi.

    Now, looking at that both Pokemon have a good recovery move, resist two of the three types, and both can use Thunder Wave. Unfortunately, Celebi didn't have the capability to counter Infernape as Slowbro, so Slowbro got my approval for that. Also, it counters a fair amount of Pokemon that Hippowdon doesn't and two Pokemon from the Rhyperior threat list. Plus, I love it.

    At this point, the team is this:

    [​IMG]

    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers *** Terra Bestia
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 236 HP / 24 Atk / 192 Def / 58 SDef
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Stealth Rock
    - Slack Off

    ---

    [​IMG]

    Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers *** Yadoran
    Ability: Own Tempo
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SAtk
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Slack Off
    - Surf
    - Thunder Wave
    - Hidden Power [Electric] / Grass knot

    ---

    [​IMG]

    Rhyperior (M) @ Leftovers *** RAWRPERIOR
    Ability: Solid Rock
    EVs: 132 HP/192 Atk/168 Spd/16 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    As you can see, so far I have a Stealth Rocker and a Thunder Waver - this helps the reasonably slow team try and gain some more speed since at the moment that is a disadvantage. What's also good is that they both have two very good recovery moves. My only un-touched weakness so far is Grass. Later, you'll see that it will decrease as Pokemon are picked.

    ----------

    Now, I came to thinking of Special Walls. Again, I was looking for something that could spread another type of status: preferably Toxic to speed up those occasional stall wars which I sometimes get caught up in with other teams. I had from this selection:

    Blissey, Rotom, Cresselia, Bronzong, and Zapdos.

    Now, from that selection, my main options were Blissey (because it can take a great deal of Special attacks and hit a majority of special attackers. It can Toxic, too. Bronzong (steel resist and can take some special hits.) and Rotom-h (can toxic and takes special hits well).

    I took those into consideration and came to a conclusion that Blissey should be added onto this team for the following reasons:

    • can toxic;
    • huge HP and Special walling ability;
    • has good and reliable recovery. Could also WishPass if necessary, or could status heal - depending on what use my favourite set would be.
    Now that I have a special wall, I have realised that my Slowbro already provides me with Fighting resist (mainly physical too which is a plus), and Blissey brings a Ghost resist for Slowbro. I used the following Blissey set:

    [​IMG]

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers *** Definition of Obesity
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 84 HP / 252 Def / 40 SAtk / 134 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    - Softboiled


    Like I said, all my weaknesses (bar grass) are currently covered by at least one Pokemon. I have to status inflicters. All of these walls have a form of recovery. They counter Pokemon from both the Rhyperior threat list and the standard, general threat list.

    ----------

    So, as you can see, next on my list is a Bulky, special-based Sweeper. This would have to have reliable recovery; good typing (resisting Grass); a phazer. Now, from that, I can only see Zapdos which covers all those factors. Whether it's weak to Stealth Rock or not, it's still reliable. Plus, with Roost to compensate, it's not much of a huge miss. It counters the most Pokemon according to the "threat list counter tally". Including Scizor, Celebi, Lucario and some other Pokemon. It's also a great phazer too since my team is easily set up on. I wanted it to have a decent Special attack and Speed stat, too. Outspeeding Adamant / Modest Lucario and Adamant Heracross without Scarf sounded very attractive to me. I ended up using the following set which I found mentioned from SoT / Krewbro on Smogon.

    [​IMG]

    Zapdos @ Leftovers *** HECTOR
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Spd / 80 SAtk
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost
    - Roar
    - Thunderbolt

    So far, the team is looking pretty good if I may say so myself. Filled with good Pokemon and Pokemon which are close to me. Let's recap:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    • All weaknesses, bar Dark, are covered;
    • I have filled most of the necessary jobs I wanted covered;
    • I have two status inflicters;
    • I have a pseudo-status taker;
    • My Pokemon have good recovery moves.
    • They support each other in: reducing the risk of long stall wars; slowing down opponents; they cover each other's counters more or less.
    ----------

    Now, I'm to look for a steel type which is a good revenge killer and has good attack. The only Pokemon in mind was Scizor. I thought of the now popular SD Scizor, but then it realised that it wasn't doing much to support my team since Azelfs and Gengars were getting troublesome at times and most people had the sense to keep them out of Scizor's sight. So, I resorted in testing the Choice Band variant. And to my amazement, it actually worked! It was less predictable at first since people were convinced that SD Scizor wiped out CB Scizor's usage completely - a grave mistake:

    [​IMG]

    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band *** Schaft
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Brick Break

    After all that, I ended up with the team I have now:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    As a final recap I ended up with this:

    • I have covered all types with resistances. All weaknesses are covered, also. This includes 5 immunities to 4 types: Electric, Poison, Ghost and Ground. The weakest type in terms of resistances is Water since only Slowbro resists Water. =/
    • All Pokemon who are supposed to be taking hits have good recovery methods;
    • I have two status inflicters;
    • My team can counter most of the Pokemon found on the threat list;
    • Pokemon that counter Rhyperior are countered;
    • Each Pokemon's own counters are somewhat dealt with too (eg: Blissey is countered by Machamp, whilst Machamp is countered by Slowbro;
    • Only one Pokemon is weak to Stealth Rock. Has recovery to semi-compensate;
    • The team is balanced and is in general, solid.
  3. HECTORtu

    HECTORtu matty is gay for me!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    251
    Final threat list:

    Abomasnow: Scizor can revenge kill with Bullet Punch; Blissey handles special variants. LeechSubPunchers are a pain sometimes with Blizzard are awful..

    Azelf: Scizor can come in and Pursuit / Bullet Punch; Blissey can come in and kill, I must be wary of ones carrying Explosion, though.

    Blissey: Scizor can outspeed and OHKO with Brick Break. Most don't stay in, though, so I just Pursuit everytime it comes in until it dies; Rhyperior comes in on Thunder Wave to Zapdos and sets up Sub, Sword Dances and OHKOs with either Earthquake or Stone Edge.

    Breloom: Zapdos can Heat Wave it.

    Dugtrio: Slowbro when locked into anything but Night Slash / Sucker Punch. Hippowdon. Scizor revenge kills with Bullet Punch.

    Suicune: Blissey can take non-rest Suicunes with the combination of Toxic + Seismic toss.

    Salamence: Hippowdon. MixMence is a problem. If Hippowdon's on full health on the switch (if it's not a leadMence), it can risk the Draco Meteor since I usually see myself suriving a LO Draco meteor and rebelling with Ice Fang. Otherwise, Sacrifice something and bring in Scizor.

    Raikou: Blissey.

    Kingdra: If Slowbro can get a Thunder Wave in there, I'm set. Hippowdon can then deal with those locked into Outrage. Scizor can, too, to an extent. Always trouble.

    Zapdos: Blissey and Hippowdon (non-HP Grass variants)

    Tyranitar: Hippowdon. <3

    Heatran: Blissey. Slowbro can Thunder Wave and ware down with Surf.

    Rhyperior: Slowbro can Surf, Hippowdon can Earthquake, and Scizor can revenge kill low-HP Rhyperiors with Bullet Punch.

    Scizor: Zapdos

    Mamoswine: Scizor and Slowbro.

    Lucario: Slowbro can take non-Crunchers. Hippowdon can take non-specs variants. Zapdos can, too. Specs can be revenge killed by Zapdos' Heat Wave.

    Rotom (all formes): Blissey (non-trick variants), otherwise, let Zapdos or someone take Scarf and deal with it from there.

    Gengar: Scizor can come in on Shadow ball and OHKO with either Pursuit or Bullet Punch

    Celebi: Scizor can OHKO with either Bullet Punch or Pursuit. Blissey can come in and defeat with a combination of Toxic + Ice Beam / Seismic toss.

    Slowbro: Scizor

    Yanmega: Blissey can Ice Beam. Scizor can revenge kill with Bullet Punch

    Magnezone: Blissey,

    Starmie: Scizor, Blissey

    Gyarados: Zapdos can come in on Earthquake and OHKO with Thunderbolt. Slowbro can Hidden Power [Electric] / Grass Knot it.

    Heracross: Zapdos can Heat Wave.

    Cresselia: Scizor can Pursuit / U-turn

    BulkyWater: Zapdos, Blissey. Can be difficult since most are CMRestCunes which are horrible. ;-;

    Machamp: Slowbro

    Togekiss: Blissey <3

    Porygon-Z: Blissey. Scizor can come in on Tri Attack and Bullet Punch

    Jolteon: Blissey

    Swampert: Slowbro can Grass knot it. Without, I'm pretty much pwned by CurseSleepers.

    Metagross: Hippowdon. Zapdos can walk in on Meteor Mash / Earthquake and Heat Wave

    Flygon: Hippowdon

    Jirachi: Blissey for Special variants. Rhyperior for physical without Iron Head. Hippowdon for general Physical variants.

    Skarmory: Zapdos can Thunderbolt / Heat Wave.

    Forretress: Zapdos OHKOs with Heat Wave.

    Hippowdon: Slowbro can Grass Knot it

    Aerodactyl: Hippowdon and Slowbro

    Gliscor: Hippowdon and Slowbro

    Snorlax: Rhyperior or Scizor

    Infernape: Physical are taken by Hippowdon. MixApes can be taken by Slowbro, to an extent. Still a big threat.


    You should know why I posted this as elaborate as you can clearly see. I posted this team on Team Revolution and people began to PM me asking me how I make teams and "what steps did you take to building it?" So, I took the liberty to write the whole of this. Took me ages. I'm still learning, so don't be so harsh, please. ^-^

    Please post your comments. It's not a perfect team, but it's reasonably well-built, I think. If you see anyone else apart from Bluu / Navykid or me (under one of the IDs highlighted in my signuture) using this team, then they're imposters and shouldn't be consulted if you want to give help. Lol.


    ~ Malachi (Zeta)

    I DID NOT MAKE THIS, IT WAS MY STUDENT, ZETA. He just felt a bit nervous about posting it, so I took the liberty of promoting the hard work he has done
  4. Venom

    Venom red eyes no visine
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,520
    amazing work here, this is truly a proper format for a RMT, *****

    On the team I really see problems with opposing Zapdos, HP Grass, which I'm not sure if are still used a lot, you have a problem with, the team in general is well put together, but the 5 starts go to the format of the team.

    se ve que eres en buen maestro eh

    edit: im amazed at the format i didnt even see blissey im trippin
  5. HECTORtu

    HECTORtu matty is gay for me!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    251
    Jaja gracias mano! I have Blissey so I don't see Zapdos as much as a problem, and thanks for the 5 stars ^_^. He is in awe lol.
  6. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,412
    Whoever gives this less than 5 stars gets kicked right square in the ass!

    This team seems quite solid, and I applaud you for it. In fact, I was pondering to use this team instead of mine even. I need to re-create that team and improve on mine.

    But let's get on to why I'm here. Grass Knot is okay to consider because it is rather true that Swampert is a pain in the ass. But I feel without it you're a little vulnerable to a Gyarados. To solve this, I don't know if this is really a good or bad idea, but I'd drop Roar in favor of Hidden Power Grass for Zapdos. This is entirely up to you, but otherwise this team is quite the solid one.

    You, sir, have made my day. ^_^

    EDIT: Who is your student? Anyway, I applaud you too Hector for helping him with this team as well.

    EDIT2: Well, Zeta eh? Good job dude, keep this up man.
  7. HECTORtu

    HECTORtu matty is gay for me!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    251
    Thanks for the rate Colonel, just wanted to let you know that my student made this, not me, so he gets all the credit, I'm just here to respond to comments and whatnot.

    HP Grass will be tested on Zapdos if Swampert becomes a problem, mainly the CursePert variant.
  8. Thorns

    Thorns

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    4,573
    Wait, tutor? Is this something you have on your TU forums or something?

    Anyway, just because the team is beautifully and flawlessly presented, doesn't mean I can't rate it!

    Definitely use Grass Knot over HP Electric - sure you lose coverage vs Flyers, but that's negligible and you need the kill on. Swampert anyway.

    Zeta better be a damn good predictor, because MixApe can and will hurt this team if your Slowbro is in KO range.

    Nice work on the team building too, you don't see much people who put in the effort nowadays.
  9. Lakers

    Lakers

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,813
    Hmm, this is actually a good team hector. I battled it today (but according to farmer it was one of your students), my team seemed to matchup with it very well, but overall this was a good team
  10. nyczxjay

    nyczxjay
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    662
    I also think you should replace Roar on Zapdos for HP Grass (If Swampert is really really getting on your nerves). Like Colonel M said, HP Electric is needed on Slowbro since without it, you don't really have anything that can take on Gyarados except Zapdos, which would be outsped and OHKO'ed by SE after a DD and SR. I like this team a lot, do you or your student mind if I take it for a spin lol?

    I'm also a little iffy on having Ice Fang on Hippowdon. I think if you want a Phazer, Hippo will do it better than Zapdos because of its superior bulk.

    @Thorns: Smogon has a tutoring service too.
  11. Daloth

    Daloth

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    14
    I believe I played against this team under my Mememan account. It was pretty impressive if I must say so myself. I ran a CM Raikou that I thought would be able to beat you, and then you brought out Blissey... It seems pretty strong to me, but if a DDgyrados or Kingdra even get in a DD or two, that seems to be the only weakness I can see. I run a SE DDGyrados so hoping for an earthquake may not always be smart. But with Slowbro you have that problem solved.

    The only weakness I think would be a DDkingdra, but that is beastly for any team to beat. Without changing your team theres really no way to properly counter that, and with the effort you put into this team I can't in good consciousness suggest anything to replace any poke.
  12. ToF

    ToF
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 13 Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,061
    Hmm...format wise this is the best RMT I have ever seen, so good job noob Hector =).

    About the team, seems you lose somewhat to heavy stall. Toxic Spikes + Spikes take care of the majority of your team, and if said stall holds a decent lategame sweeper like Lucario, I feel you lose. I know Slowbro is an integral part of your team, countering a variety of threats, but I feel Starmie can fit the role better, and accomplish basically everything Slowbro does with the addition of Rapid Spinning.

    This is from a theorymon perspective of course, so if the team is working without the need of a spinner, by all means keep the current design. However, from a pure theorymon perspective, Skarmory can set up spikes fairly quickly, and against a smart player, Toxic Spikes can be set-up as well. Spinning away the entry hazards allows you to maximize Rhyperior's life, as well as deny Toxic Spikes from ruining your fun.

    Starmie also adds some form of speed to this team, which is fairly slow in general. Sure you have Thunder Wave to slow down opposing threats, but its always nice to have the speed in some situations. Can't really find many holes in the team, so overall great job. I'm still in awe of the format though, that must have took you a loooong time. Kudos on that.
  13. sora13

    sora13

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    526
    NP MixApe isn't run often, but if it gets an NP, you're going down fast.

    An NP Fire Blast easily OHKOes Zapdos, your only possible switch in.

    To help this, you may want to replace an attack on Scizor with Quick Attack.


    Choose whatever move you use least, but it will also help with Kingdra
  14. HECTORtu

    HECTORtu matty is gay for me!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    251
    Thanks for the compliments everyone.

    I tutor Zeta because he asked me to tutor him for a while after we had been paired up in the TU tutoring system, if anyone is wondering.

    Slowbro will be keeping HP Electric because he's pretty much needed to counter Gyarados, although I might consider changing him for Starmie due to what ToF has stated (which is what I suggested to my student in the first place). But he seems to be very optimistic about Slowbro, so I'll let him be, it will also help me agaisnt Ape so I will consider it.
  15. Navykid

    Navykid

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    Ahh
    Malachi;s team :P

    Like i told him
    He has problems agaisnt Rain Dance teams
    Grass Knot over HP Elec on slowbro because he's let me test it and he has problems with Curse Pert and some with Toymence
    Overall good team :P

    BTW
    Those who where asking who he is
    Hes TestingJustTesting,Vashta on Shoddy
    @HEC you should add he dosnt like people stealing his team
  16. Pride

    Pride

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Messages:
    295
    A switch to starmie isnt the best possible change up for starmie imo. Starmie leaves you pretty open to Gyarados as a DD LO attack usually finish it off after SR damage, and Slowbro leaves you fairly open to Infernape. Changing to Vaporeon seems more logical. You gain wish support for Ryperior and you should win out against Gyarados everytime with HP Electric. With that change, you sould also beat Cursepert as... You're immune to its only attack. Though, HP Grass on Zapdos should be used for insurance against Swampert.

    Also on Blissey, I dont think it is needed at all to give Blissey a leftovers number... I mean you have sandstorm going anyways, and Leftover numbers only give you 1 extra HP. I'd much rather take a percent or two less damage by investing in SpDef. I'd also go Calm on Blissey but thats really up to choice.
  17. Indra

    Indra DACODBOSS
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    340
    Oh wow what a nice team covers everything ^_^. I would like to test it some time. For now i see that crocune can run through your team with ease which is kinda scary ._. But I see that your zapdos is modest so not much of a problem.

    Well done =)
  18. EeveeTrainer

    EeveeTrainer

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    762
    Just posting to say that this is an excellent rate -- sometimes your team's biggest threat isn't a particular Pokemon. Spikes/Toxic Spikes will rape this team.

    I'm going to contact Nintendo about adding more spinners soon.
  19. Kir

    Kir

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    223
    Tyraniboah looks like he could maybe be a problem, but I'm not about to suggest changes to such a well-built and successful team for such an uncommon threat.

    I've viewed this team on another forum and I'd like to stress that (and Navykid touched on it earlier), Zeta would certainly prefer if people didn't use his team. He has said this numerous times.
  20. stormtrooper

    stormtrooper

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    260
    yeah eevee trainer is right you could switch slowbro for starmie to rapid spin to get rid of spikes and toxic spikes and stealth rock
  21. Flashstorm1

    Flashstorm1
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,372
    From my own perspective, I can see Tyraniboah giving you some trouble since your team is rather well covered by a standard Focus Punch / Substitute / Dark Pulse / Ice Beam set, since only Scizor and Rhyperior really only deal with that coverage effectively. I'd recommend investing some HP EVs on Scizor simply because I don't find adding speed EVs to Scizor really necessary, especially when Magnezone is specifically EV'd to outspeed Adamant versions anyways. Also, investing in HP EVs will help you against some very threatening special sweepers such as Gengar and Starmie in case Blissey goes down for whatever reason.

    I am also in support for HP Grass on Zapdos simply because most of the pokemon that set up are either handled by Heat Wave (in the case of Scizor) or Zapdos dies before it can successfully phaze (in the case of Swords Dance Lucario [with Stone Edge], etc.). In all honesty, your team may not necessarily need a phazer since the rest of your team already counters the most common set-up pokemon. HP Electric is also a must on Slowbro so you can counter Gyarados, who can otherwise sweep your team.
  22. Indra

    Indra DACODBOSS
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    340

    Rhyperior and Scizor are more than enough to stop that tyraniboah spread actually, the problem would be guessing what 2 attacks his opponents tyraniboah would have =\. Oh and yes he is correct you should add more HP evs on your scizor.

    I run 232hp/252att/12sp.def/6def on my scizor bulky as hell =)
    but your choice in what you want ^_^
  23. TeaBag

    TeaBag

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    126
    At a glance I see a gaping Crocune weak. As of now you're playing Russian roulette against it, hoping Sleep Talk selects Calm Mind the turn you decide to Substitute or Earthquake.

    Looks like everything else has been mentioned already, and congratulations on your five stars.
  24. HECTORtu

    HECTORtu matty is gay for me!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    251
    Thank you everyone for the comments, Vaporeon will definetly be tested since I can see it working pretty well on the team as well. Starmie will also be tested for reasons mentioned above. If anyone else has any comments, don't hesitate because me and Zeta are looking for all the suggestions possible.
  25. Kir

    Kir

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    223
    I'd recommend at least testing some other Blissey sets. Wish Bliss helps heal Scizor and Rhyperior, the only team members w/out recovery, and Cleric Bliss can help with the Toxic Spikes problem (to a degree).

    Obviously if you/Zeta decide on Vaporeon in Slowbro's place, the Wish Bliss would probably be a bad idea.

    Just a little suggestion, though the team is great as is.

    EDIT:

    Just saw this lol

    Anyways, I still would recommend testing both of those Blissey sets.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)