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Teambuilding 101 (Round 3: Raseri, Annoyer, and tennisace)

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by DTC, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. Fusxfaranto

    Fusxfaranto there are many things that need to be erased
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    Hyper Offense lgi
  2. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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  3. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    oK

    Score:

    Hyper Offense - 15
    Weather - 7
    Balance - 6

    So hyper offense wins!!

    The builders for this week are Raseri, Annoyer, and tennisace.
  4. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    Cool we got HO,This round will be intresting as the best spiker In NU is Shelment and thats sad and good at the same time.(Im talking about defensive spikers)
  5. MMF

    MMF Give me the strength to part this sea

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    You are completely wrong about that. Garbodor is hands down the best defensive spiker in NU. Also Cacturne is a much better spiker than Shelmet is. Hell I'd rather be using Glalie to set up spikes than Shelmet.
  6. WillSO

    WillSO

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    I'm looking forward to see what route the builders go down this week. I expect to see a lot of CB Emboar, CB Sawk and other powerhouses - it'll be interesting to see how everyone achieves their synergy for pivoting.
  7. FLCL

    FLCL
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    hyper offense has some really cool set-up sweepers such as braviary, gorebyss, carracosta, fraxure, sawsbuck, samurott, and klang. combine that with either screens or hazard support and watch as defensive teams get run over. there are also a lot of pokemon that hit hard off the bat such as emboar, golurk, zangoose, and swellow, so maybe the builders won't even use team support. i'm eager to see what annoyer, raseri, and tennisace have for in store for us :nerd:
  8. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    I feel you are simply insulting it because of its NFE/LC status and usage here are some pros it has over almost evrey spiker in NU:

    - Acess to recover
    - acess to batton pass
    - Yawn
    - More physical bulk(Im preety sure it breaks 420 defense)
    - Hard walls stuff like Sawk that have become anti- hazard atm etc.
    and also I don't know why we should argue about this as this claerly comes down to opinion.And yeah HO is gonna have like 2 or 3 out of the top 5 lol just a coincidence.and also SmashLiechi Carracosta is really a underrated threat that the builders just might want to look at using.
  9. FLCL

    FLCL
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    Shelmet doesn't wall Sawk since it is 2HKOed by Stone Edge. If you're going by that logic, then Garbodor walls Sawk too. Baton Pass is completely useless on Shelmet since it won't be passing any useless boosts. Shelmet is completely dead weight outside of setting up Spikes, and can only spread some Toxic damage or try to annoy the opponent with Yawn or Encore. It is also very slow, being outrun by even Rock-types, which can hit it super effectively. Garbodor, on the other hand, can use it's decent attack stat in conjunction with Gunk Shot and other coverage moves to deal damage to the opponent's team, while causing further harm with Aftermath and Rocky Helmet. It also has a decent Speed stat which allows it to beat most Ground and Psychic types, which are it's only weaknesses, allowing for more Spikes to be set up.
  10. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    Baton Pass is a mini u turn thats the only reason I mentioned it.And I completely accept Garboader is the better OVERALL spiker but defensivly Shelmet wins,Its more durable due to its very high defense and recover and dosent have to blind switch when you think the opponent is sending something like Emboar or Swellow or Rampardos etc.(Shelmet counters)as you can BP Out to the appropriate counter to the switch in,and Yawn is very nice in forcing switches so you can spike easier and Im going to calc the sawk thing and edit this post.Overall I respect your opnion and I do not hope I have seemed like I am forcing my opnion on you.

    EDIT:Sawk needs a CB to get a full KO as with a LO you need a adamant nature or take the jolly nature and settle for a 3HKO and with adamant LO shelment can just PP Stall out sone edge as it hits around the 50%s and Admant AND Jolly Scarf sawk 3HKO In short to beat shelmet sawk needs a Choice Band and Stone Edge wich is a very big feat. Since LO and scarf and CB Sawk beats Garboader.
  11. tennisace

    tennisace Proximity to power deludes some into thinking they wield it.
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    Oiawesome, I'm not quite sure you understand how HYPER OFFENSE works. The point isn't to have a defensive spiker generally, the point is to set up hazards quickly then do SOMETHING to the opponent (read: not sitting there). Generally HO teams revolve around getting momentum quickly and never letting it go, through a bunch of different methods.

    Personally, when I build HO teams, I try to set up as little as possible. The more turns I have to spend setting up things like Screens or Spikes or whatnot are turns where I'm not attacking the opponent, and consequently turns that my team is getting hit or set up on. In my opinion, the point of HO is to simply not allow your opponent time to gain momentum or set up some kind of plan to win.

    I'm not going to reveal my team just yet, but here are some things I generally do with an HO team:

    -I usually don't use Spikes or Toxic Spikes unless there's a good offensive Spiker in the tier (SCOLIPEDE ;_; ). In NU specifically, setting up Stealth Rock is really important because so many Pokemon are weak to it. In addition, most Pokemon with Stealth Rock have a lot of natural bulk and good resistances.

    -Ditto for Dual Screens, since to use them effectively, you need to dedicate a Pokemon solely for Screens with Light Clay, and with the exception of a couple mons, most of them are kind of dead weight offensively. If I was to use a DS mon, that would take up another precious team slot in addition to my hazards setter that I can better use for a powerful attacker.

    -A lot of times I like to "double up" on coverage between Pokemon, almost like a Double Dragon type strategy. This works especially well in NU, considering most Pokemon don't have reliable recovery.

    -Never ever ever choice lock into a move which has immunities (Fighting, Ground, Psychic, Electric). The point of HO isn't really to predict, it's to set up asap and force your opponent to react. Switching out when you're choice locked into a bad move really kills momentum.

    -Make sure you have some way to beat annoying walls. My go-to is usually a fast Taunt, but Disable works pretty ok too sometimes depending on the team.

    Anyway I'm still playtesting my team, but considering none of the other builders have posted yet, I think I'm ahead???
  12. Machineae

    Machineae

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    Would you say something like Torterra is a good screen setter because of its Atk stat and high BP moves will allow it to go straight on the offensive if neccasary or something opens up while you set screens?

    edit- He also sets up SR, with one moveslot you have to choose betwee Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer and EQ. Both have pokes with immunities against them, soo.
  13. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    Torterra is a decent dual screener, but I'd rather use something like Dual Screens Serperior due to its high speed and access to Taunt. Torterra does boast access to Stealth Rock and an offensive presence, but it does not set up Dual Screens as well as others. The best Dual Screener in the tier, in my opinion, is Gardevoir due to her decent Speed and access to Memento/Taunt/a bunch of goody moves for set up sweepers. Ampharos is also a pretty good Dual Screener due to a slow Volt Switch and good bulk. I think I'm the only teambuilder using Dual Screens. I like Dual Screens a lot because it allows my sweepers to take a hit which is important since you can't really afford walls on a hyper offensive team; it allows much much easier set up. The Dual Screener I'm using is Solrock due to access to SR (so I don't have to waste another slot of it/not use it all), screens, a pretty good 70 base speed, and Explosion which is really cool for weakening threats and giving any of my sweepers a free switch. I've been playtesting this team for like the past four days and it's been really successful; I will post my team later today soonish~
  14. DGX

    DGX

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    i need help building a team around Hydreigon and Gyarados. Any ideas?
  15. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    this is for NU teams, both Hydreigon and Gyarados are OU, this thread would probably be better for helping you.
  16. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    I had a beautifully formatted post typed up but I fucked up so yeah =/

    the team I have right now is:

    Show Hide
    Musharna @ Life Orb
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 0 Spd
    - Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Trick Room
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    Regirock @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Explosion
    - Stone Edge
    - Thunder Wave

    Gorebyss @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Signal Beam

    Drifblim @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Destiny Bond
    - Hypnosis

    Absol @ Life Orb
    Trait: Super Luck
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Night Slash
    - Superpower
    - Swords Dance

    Sawk (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Stone Edge



    This team has quite a silly history, I've used teams very similar to it in the past and kind of just revamped it for this meta, changing natures where needed. But before choosing to use this one I first had to define what Hyper Offense is. My personal definition of it is:

    A team that focuses on offensive synergy more than defensive synergy
    A team where (nearly) every member can contribute offensively


    I tried to keep my definition simple so I could have more leeway when building the team, I didn't want to be haunted my my own definition, I just wanted to build an extremely offensive team that works.


    Now as you can see from the importable, i run a lot of weird moves.

    SR Explosion Regirock is absolutely amazing for keeping momentum and gaining it early game, its bulky which is why I used it over Golem, who is stronger. That extra bulk allows Regirock to act as a pivot mid game if I don't have a chance to explode early. T wave is just there to cripple potentially threatening sweepers but I don't use it that much.

    OTR Musharna is another pivot that can threaten a sweep, i've always been a fan of LO Mush, and Trick Room is what she needs to sweep late game. She's my go to late game mon, as well as my switch in to the fighting types that threaten my team.

    Gorebyss is probably the Pokemon that gets the most sweeps, she is the definition of offense. I use Surf because I can't afford to miss at all, Signal Beam so I can hurt Ludicolo who otherwise handles this team pretty well.
    Drifblim is a cool sweeper that also acts as a status platform. Drifblim is best for pulling you out of a tight situation, acrobatics can rip through a lot of teams. Hypnosis is inaccurate but it can save you when you've otherwise lost, WoW burns physical threats so Byss can set up even easier. Destiny Bond is for when its time for the Blimp to come to an end.

    Absol is a staple on a lot of my teams lately, but I choose SD over Pursuit because once Absol sets up its practically over. Drifblim can help Absol set up, it's rare but i never liked Pursuit anyways.

    Scarf Sawk revenges things and makes me not weak to anything fast, and people always expect band now so it catches them off guard.


    I'll go into more detail later, I just want opinions to improve it, and I'll answer any questions you guys have so far.
  17. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    For HO I think Beheeyem would outclas Musharna as the raw power of LO Analytic Beheeyem is better for HO than the bulk mushy provides just my little nit pick and it probaly wont work,but I think you should test it.Otherwise Exelant team Raseri nice job :D :jump: .
  18. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    Before I get started into the teambuilding/team, I'd like to say what I'm looking towards making this Hyper Offense team. One of the most important aspects of this playstyle is to always try to keep the momentum, or arguably more importantly, never let the opposition gain momentum or an advantage since it's hard to catch up if you're using multiple set up sweepers. This means never give a chance for other teams to set up and have a back up plan (revenge killer). Due to the offensive nature of the playstyle (duh), good offensive synergy is more important than defensive synergy although you don't want to give away an exploitable weakness. My plan was to abuse Dual Screens to the fullest while using physical offense to repeatedly batter on the same walls/pivots that the other team has. Anyways, lets a go!

    Teambuilding (open)

    [​IMG]

    The first Pokemon I chose for this team was Fraxure. It is one of the best set up sweepers boasting great bulk (with Eviolite), an amazing set up move, a good typing for both STAB and resistances, a great Attack stat, and a decent Speed stat able to outspeed Swellow at +1. Under Dual Screens, this monster can set up way more easily and can boost multiple times if need be.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Linoone was chosen next. It is a classic sweeper on a Hyper Offense Dual Screens team. Other than boasting the ability to single-handily sweeping a team after a Belly Drum (pretty easy to do actually), it provides invaluable priority with Extremespeed, even bypassing other priority moves.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Gardevoir was chosen next since it is obvious that I am looking towards Dual Screen support. At the time, Gardevoir was chosen due to its fast Taunt and access to Memento giving an easy setup for Linoone and my other sweepers.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Samurott was chosen next due to its good typing and good bulk. I decided to choose Samurott over something like Gorebyss or Carracosta due to its high base speed and access to Megahorn, allowing me to defeat Musharna with much more ease. Swords Dance + priority is a blessing, and Samurott abuses it to the best of its ability.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Absol was chosen as my penultimate member. Its ability to revenge kill offensive threats with its mighty powerful Sucker Punch is vital so this team won't be defeated by faster offensive threats such as Cinccino. Absol also gives me a much better time against Psychic-types such as Musharna and helps me against weather teams as well.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The last member I added to my team was Weezing. A special attacker was also nice. It was quite odd, but I've always wanted to try the SubSplit LO offensive set, and it worked as my pivot. After testing the team for about five matches, Weezing didn't really do much due to its only decent coverage and birds were also pretty threatening.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    After trying out Solrock over Gardevoir and Amoonguss over Weezing, this is the final (atm) version of the team and has given me many victories. I chose Solrock since my sweepers appreciated Stealth Rock and Solrock's resistance to Flying and Normal-type moves along with an immunity to Ground-type moves made setting up Screens much more easier along with increasing the defensive synergy of the team. Explosion was also cool for denting many Pokemon. I chose Amoonguss, specifically LO Amoonguss, over Weezing since its typing is really beneficial towards this team while also absorbing Toxic Spikes. It is also a much better pivot due to Regenerator and it defeats many common physical walls with ease such as Regirock and Alomomola.


    Team (open)

    Fraxure @ Eviolite
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Taunt / Swords Dance
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Low Kick

    Linoone @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 252 Atk / 40 Def / 44 SDef / 172 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Seed Bomb
    - Shadow Claw / Return

    Absol @ Dark Gem
    Trait: Super Luck
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Night Slash
    - Superpower

    Solrock @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Explosion

    Samurott @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Aqua Jet
    - Megahorn

    Amoonguss @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 216 HP / 152 Def / 124 SAtk / 16 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Spore
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Ground]


    There are some slashes in the team importable because both are pretty viable options. Taunt or Swords Dance can be used on Fraxure; Taunt allows easier setup and lets me defeat walls such as Alomomola and Amoonguss, but Swords Dance allows me to easily shred through these same walls and attaining a Swords Dance plus a Dragon Dance boost is pretty easy with screens and easily sweeps teams. Return can be used over Shadow Claw on Linoone for some important OHKOs against Pokemon such as Amoonguss at +6. Dark Gem is used on Absol since it allows me to use a Jolly nature while still boasting greater power than an Adamant Life Orb. Some important KOs it lets me nab: 100% OHKO against Cinccino, OHKOs Ludicolo 100% of the time after rocks. Since I use Absol mainly as my revenge killer, Dark Gem suits the purpose better while also letting me switch up moves since being locked into Dark/Fighting-type moves is bad for sustaining momentum most of the time.

    The team works together pretty well. Fraxure is usually used early-mid game to break through the opposing team regardless of whether they are offensive or defensive. It would probably sweep the whole team if it wasn't for shitty confusion hax from Outrage. I wouldn't really suggest setting up Screens at the direct start of the match unless you have a good opportunity. You should try getting a late game sweep with either Linoone or Samurott, and the Lum Berry on Samurott allows me to actually beat Amoonguss 1 on 1 most of the time under screens while also letting me avoid paralysis from Regirock or Musharna. Try getting a Spore off with Amoonguss early on to disable that Pokemon for the remainder of the game, and it also provides an easy set up for teammates. Amoonguss is the main pivot since it can switch into most threats and defeats the majority of physically defensive threats. Once you set up Screens on Solrock, don't immediately go for Explosion unless you don't need Solrock anymore. Solrock's resistances and immunities are pretty key to the team. Save Absol to revenge kill threats such as Cinccino or Ludicolo, and don't waste it just to get around 70~80% on a Musharna which can be used for a Belly Drum on Linoone.

    That's the end of my teambuilding 101 session. Feel free to leave any comments/suggestions/questions about the team, in fact, please do. (Remove the slashed options if you want to use the importable)

    =)
  19. FLCL

    FLCL
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    hey annoyer, i think you should try offensive calm mind musharna over amoonguss simply because gurdurr gives you loads of trouble. your sweepers are all physical which means they will have a hard time breaking through it before reflect runs out. since amoonguss is offensive, it won't be able to take ice punch very well. musharna adds another dangerous sweeper to your team and can counter gurdurr much more effectively. with max special attack, it does not cut away from your team's momentum at all.
  20. WillSO

    WillSO

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    bump: tennisace don't be so lazy.
  21. tennisace

    tennisace Proximity to power deludes some into thinking they wield it.
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    THANKS MOM

    anyway here's my team:

    Show Hide
    Golem @ Ground Gem
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Blast
    - Sucker Punch

    Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Return
    - Horn Leech
    - Nature Power

    Fraxure @ Eviolite
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Low Kick
    - Taunt

    Gorebyss @ White Herb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Shell Smash
    - Substitute

    Emboar @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Blaze
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 216 Spd / 40 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Focus Blast
    - Overheat

    Swellow @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Facade
    - Protect
    - U-turn


    I've kind of sat on it for a while because I know I can make it a lot better than it currently is, but "real life" is getting in my way right now.

    The point of the team was/is to smash shit hard and just don't look back, since as I said I don't really like using too much setup when going with Hyper Offense. This team allows me to hit hard and check a lot of threats. However, as you can clearly see, I don't have a Fighting-type resist, so Sawk and Gurdurr really screw my team over. In addition, my only priority is Golem's Sucker Punch, which is pitifully weak. If I had to make changes to the team, I'd probably switch out Emboar for a Scarf Gardevoir to give my team some much-needed speed and a second Fighting-type check. I'd also probably give Golem a bit more bulk since the extra speed hasn't helped that much.
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