Tentacruel (Choice Scarf)

[HART4FLOON]

[SET]
Name: Choice Scarf
Move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
Move 2: Ice Beam
Move 3: Hidden Power Electric / Sludge Bomb
Move 4: Toxic Spikes
Nature: Modest / Timid
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Comments:
- Set of resistances, ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, and set up hazards means it isn't outclassed by Starmie
- Choice Scarf combined with good bulk and decent power allows Tentacruel to revenge kill threats like +1 Dragonite, +1 Gyarados, Heatran, etc.
- Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, HP Electric / Sludge Bomb hits everything neutrally except Shedinja and Lanturn, both uncommon in OU
- Can set up hazards on stuff that expect a slow Tentacruel (part of surprise value really)
- Modest nature because Tentacruel appreciates boost in power. If you want to tie with stuff like Scarfgon Timid can be used.

Additional Comments
- Surf for accuracy paranoid people
- Giga Drain can be used over HP Electric / Sludge Bomb for Swampert but doesn't really hit any other notable Pokemon
- Alternate EV spread of 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe Timid, outspeeds 252+ Scarf Rotom-A

I will mention the importance of hazards as it really helps with some KOs (Dragonite -_____-) and that it can be a decent lead. Any thoughts?

 

[Darkamber8828]

Doesn't Starmie...do it better?

 

[Donny Mae.]

Doesn't Starmie...do it better?

Mostly.

I guess the only niché Tentacruel has as a scarfer is surprise value, bulk, and super quick toxic spikes set up.

 

[Bartman101]

Doesn't Starmie...do it better?

Oui, except for 2 things; Toxic Spikes and a significantly higher suprise value, but apart from those I don't see any other advantages Tentacruel has or Starmie, oh, it has more bulk too, but that is it, methinks.

EDIT: Ninja'd, by 11 seconds...

 

[fatty]

In my opinion, Starmie doesn't outclass this at all. For one, Tentacruel isn't pursuit bait for things like Tar and Scizor. Secondly, a fast Tenta can get up 2 layers of Toxic Spikes rather easily, something Starmie cannot do. Also, the sheer surprise value of the set is worth it. Many Gliscor, Gyarados, and Dragonite will stay in expecting to outspeed and KO the more common slower Tentacruel sets, only to be met with the appropriate SE move and KO. Finally, Tenta has a lot more bulk on the special side and better defensive typing, so switching into many threats is a lot easier.

Now, I will say if I was looking for a pure revenge killer, Starmie is still better, but I still believe this set has some merit.

 

[Tomahawk]

Sludge Bomb should be the main option over HP Electric. You still have great coverage, being only resisted by Empoleon, Qwilfish and Tentacruel. A neutral Sludge Bomb/Surf/Hydro Pump does more than a super effective HP.

I think a Modest nature should be the main option. With a Timid nature, you reach 259 Sp. Atk. This is hardly enough to revenge kill certain pokes.

Remove the mention of Rapid Spin, I guess. If you use it over an attacking move, you have two moves you that make you switch out after using it. If you use it over Toxic Spikes, you are outclassed by Starmie.

 

[Megan_Fox]

Seeing as I'm the one who wrote the Offensive Spinner Tentacruel set, I do like Offensive Tentacruels but I'm a bit unsure about this set for the following reasons.

• Tentacruels base SpA is still 80 and without the LO Boost its attacks are a bit weak
• Attacks are very easy to switch into, especially Ice Beam and HP Electric. While Starmie is able to Overcome such odds sometimes due to a combination of Thunderbolt, more SpA and most importantly Trick, Tentacruel unfortunately lacks these.

However, I will test the set before making a final decision on it. It does have some stuff over Starmie such as its ability to absorb Toxic Spikes and the resistances it packs but im not convinced that's enough at the moment.

 

[HART4FLOON]

On the chance that this does get approved, should I put Modest over Timid?

 

[ShinyAzelf]

I think you could slash Modest in. Maybe even the main slash, but I'm not really sure. It'd definitely benefit from the boost in power though.

 

[panamaxis]

Hidden Power Electric should probably be the main slash, not sludge bomb, when would we want to use sludge bomb when we can use Ice Beam to hit the grass types and allow ourselves the option of revenging gyarados also

 

[deinosaur]

I've been thinking about a CS set for Tentacruel for some time. However, the lack of power makes me move to other scarfers.
Sure, Tenta gets TS and the ability to pick them up, but Starmie can just Rapid Spin them and not be affected due to Natural Cure. Scarfed Starmie gets much more power and speed, with better coverage. I don't really see Tentacruel getting much use as a scarfer due to its drawbacks.

The cons much outweigh the pros.

 

[ShinyAzelf]

I've been thinking about a CS set for Tentacruel for some time. However, the lack of power makes me move to other scarfers.
Sure, Tenta gets TS and the ability to pick them up, but Starmie can just Rapid Spin them and not be affected due to Natural Cure. Scarfed Starmie gets much more power and speed, with better coverage. I don't really see Tentacruel getting much use as a scarfer due to its drawbacks.

The cons much outweigh the pros.

Well you can say that about all Toxic Spikers, right? In this case, Tentacruel is actually good for being able to absorb them as well.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

you're going to lock yourself into toxic spikes of all things?

For one, Tentacruel isn't pursuit bait for things like Tar and Scizor. ... Also, the sheer surprise value of the set is worth it. Many Gliscor, Gyarados, and Dragonite will stay in expecting to outspeed and KO the more common slower Tentacruel sets, only to be met with the appropriate SE move and KO. ... Tenta has a lot more bulk on the special side and better defensive typing,

then why not use suicune?

 

[panamaxis]

Suicune doesn't absorb toxic spikes upon switching-in.

 

[deinosaur]

Suicune doesn't absorb toxic spikes upon switching-in.

If it matters all about picking up Toxic Spikes, then why aren't we using Scarf Venasaur?

 

[ShinyAzelf]

Because Tentacruel can lay them down as well.

 

[deinosaur]

So you are gonna lock yourself into Toxic Spikes while a Calm Mind Jirachi comes in and gets 2 free CMs while you figure out how screwed you are?

 

[apologies]

even after 2 cms jirachi has plenty of checks.. heatran, tyranitar, metagross.. most ground types can at least phaze anyway

 

[Tomahawk]

Hidden Power Electric should probably be the main slash, not sludge bomb, when would we want to use sludge bomb when we can use Ice Beam to hit the grass types and allow ourselves the option of revenging gyarados also

Look at the offensive spinner set (rapid spin+ 3 attacks).
It lacks HP Electric.

The only pokes that take more damage from HP Electric than another attack:
Empoleon, Tentacruel, Qwilfish, Gyarados.

Edit: forgot Pelipper.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Look at the offensive spinner set (rapid spin+ 3 attacks).
It lacks HP Electric.

The only pokes that take more damage from HP Electric than another attack:
Empoleon, Tentacruel, Qwilfish, Gyarados.

Edit: forgot Pelipper.

You forgot almost every other water pokemon.

Anyway, Sludge Bomb isn't a good thing to be locked into because there are quite a few steel types in OU, and weak, non-STAB neutral coverage isn't really what Scarf sets are supposed to do.

 

[Tomahawk]

You forgot almost every other water pokemon.

Anyway, Sludge Bomb isn't a good thing to be locked into because there are quite a few steel types in OU, and weak, non-STAB neutral coverage isn't really what Scarf sets are supposed to do.

Sludge Bomb + STAB = 142.5
HP Electric x 2 = 140

 

[bubbly]

The more I think about this the less good it sounds. First of all, I doubt you would get that many revenge kills since if you switch a Tentacruel into like a +1 Dragonite they'll think something's up for sure. Gyarados yeah, but Starmie is better at that. There is a huge issue with lack of power here. That's the revenge killing side (also note, once the other guy figures out its Scarfed it loses A LOT of viability).
Meanwhile, Toxic Spikes aren't a good thing to lock yourself into, simply.

 

[HART4FLOON]

i'll admit that tenta does have some power issues but the purpose of revenge killers is to pick off weakened things. tenta has just enough power to fulfill this purpose

 

[panamaxis]

If it matters all about picking up Toxic Spikes, then why aren't we using Scarf Venasaur?

Water typing? Speed? Completely different attacks? Where did I ever see picking up toxic spikes was all that mattered, I merely said that's what it has over suicune.

Obviously you would never tspike against an offensive team, you'd use it on a defensive or balanced team where you can afford to.

Is 2.5 more base power really worth being unable to revenge gyarados and break empoleon substitute? Hp electric or sludge bomb (unless you poison) isn't really touching the other water types anyway (it'd 2HKO offensive starmie I suppose), Suicune CMs, Vaporeon wishes, etc. etc. Why wouldn't you just tspike on the bulky water's anyway?

It's not worth giving up the ability to revenge kill gyarados for 2.5 more power...

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I'm really, really not feeling this set. 80 Base Special Attack is terrible for a Choice Scarf user (Flygon barely works with 100 Attack, and it's got Outrage and EQ for its STABs), and the fact that it's pretty huge setup fodder in general for anything with a semblance of bulk or a resistance to whatever attack it happens to be locked into is a HUGE issue. The "Offensive Spinner" works because it can switch moves and catch common spinblockers off-guard, and also hits fairly hard with the Life Orb boost. This... just doesn't have it.

Not rejecting it outright yet, but leaning very heavily toward rejection.