Tera...Again

[adem]

tera allows a lot of strategies and in the same way that Pokemon survive things that couldn't, they also become weak to other things that wouldn't affect them before. In addition, in most cases the most probable tera are known. In addition, the rival can surprise you with a tera and you can do the same. I find it very sad that you do not see further. Dragonite should be 4x weak to ice, if it becomes normal it no longer has this weakness, but it will become weak to fighting. I am sorry that those who are experts do not know how to take advantage of the tera in their favor

u r so right! when i tera water my barraskewda, it becomes weak to…. electric and grass??? wait, that was what it was like before too…. wtf??!!. let me try again, when i tera ghost my dragapult, i become weak to…. what is this, i dont gain any new weaknesses ??? let me try again, when i tera fairy my tapu lele i dont …. um, nope, oh i resist dark now too! ig now instead of 4x resisting fighting i just 2x resist it :(. damn, i find it very sad that you do not see further, i am sorry that you (the expert) do not know how the type chart works and can only nitpick certain mons. and for the sake of your argument, yeah, dragonite teras normal and is now weak to fighting… congrats! except….

+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 232-274 (85.6 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 252-297 (96.5 - 113.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 348-412 (93.8 - 111%) -- approx. 75% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Tera Normal Dragonite: 205-243 (63.4 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


awh, so cool, now i… wait, my fighting types still die ??? wtf! damn… its almost as if it doesnt matter if u gain new weaknesses if those weaknesses dont come into play. and now i need two mons to (maybe) deal with 1? sounds fair and balanced to me. also, yeah, new weaknesses, discounting the fact that it might not even come into play (in the dnite case), have u ever considered that maybe the typing is so good and dealing with the weakness is easy? look at gliscor, when it teras fairy the mons with steel or fairy stab are little, and all of thek lose long term and are overwhelmed easily, if it teras water the electric types non can switch in safely and all are easily outlasted. look at cress, what are the offensive psychics? just lele, which first u need to force the tera on it and hope that it hasnt calm minded too much, since if it has unless ur specs ur gna struggle to break it.

You don't want a suspect because you're afraid that what you want won't come out... painful
Maybe if what you want doesn't come out, it's because most people have realized the thousands of strategies it provides and the possibility of using Pokemon in a different way. but you like a flat game where you know everything by heart to feel more pro

ur so right, remember the survey that was done where people talked about how balanced tera was? oh wait….

it seems u r wrong once again! idk wether ur a contrarian or purposefully throwing or genuinely just daft, but at least get ur facts straight and make new points that people havent disproved for the last 20 years

 

[Joseph Gomes]

At this point I don't see any pro-tera comment here that's not memeing or from users who don't play competitive at all.

The last suspect test ruined Natdex for 6 months. This one will either save the format or kill Natdex for good. Here's hoping sanity prevails.

 

[mcooper527666]

Remember when Tera was tested in OU that there were the following options:

• Outright ban (Terastallization will no longer be usable in SV OU)
• 1 Tera user per team (Only the first member of your party will be allowed to Terastallize during the course of the battle)
• Reveal Tera type at team preview (Any Pokemon can Terastallize, but the type they would do so into is disclosed at team preview prior to a battle)
• Only STAB Tera types allowed (Any Pokemon can Terastallize, but they may only do so to types that match their initial STAB typings)

I’m neither suggesting nor advocating restrictions as an option, I just want someone to answer this question: What caused you to decide that restrictions were not an option?

 

[about15guys]

Remember when Tera was tested in OU that there were the following options:

• Outright ban (Terastallization will no longer be usable in SV OU)
• 1 Tera user per team (Only the first member of your party will be allowed to Terastallize during the course of the battle)
• Reveal Tera type at team preview (Any Pokemon can Terastallize, but the type they would do so into is disclosed at team preview prior to a battle)
• Only STAB Tera types allowed (Any Pokemon can Terastallize, but they may only do so to types that match their initial STAB typings)

I’m neither suggesting nor advocating restrictions as an option, I just want someone to answer this question: What caused you to decide that restrictions were not an option?

smogon generally wants to avoid a complex ban at all costs, but just to potentially help explain why these won't work. complex bans are generally avoided at all costs because they make the tier unreasonable to learn how to build in alongside being a pain to implement from a balancing perspective, I'd rather not have to code a massive if/else statement allowing pokemon to be legal or not just to top the larger issue of the confusion it'd cause, imagine people coming into natdex's chatroom and constantly asking "why can't my kingambit use tera dark in-game?" or "why can't my volcarona tera grass" constantly would both be annoying and not help the general issues at hand, which is tera in its entirety, not one facet of tera

anyways to elaborate on the indivudual options a little more

first option is outright ban, which is good and a reasonable choice, as it's not complex and simple to implement
second option is a complex ban, which unnecesarily complicates teambuilding to an unreasonable extent, and still doesn't fix the issue as most teams only have one tera abuser, not multiple, since that's just how most people build teams at the higher levels

third option doesn't help the main issue, because 95% of the time you can look at a mon and know what it's tera type is, so this is information you generally already have, alongside the fact that knowing my opponent's got a tera grass heatran doesn't really help, since the main issues tera have generally focus around the builder, where implementing this won't help

fourth option is a combination of both, where it both doesn't fix the issue and also being a complex ban, complex bans are undesireable for the reasons above, but the other issue is tera abusers like barraskewda, and similar mons being completely unaffected, also the only thing keeping these mons somewhat in check was defensive tera being an option, imagine what it'd be like if defensive tera suddenly wasn't an option, making already problematic mons like kingambit or zamazenta being just completely unwallable as you suddenly just lost the best defensive answer to a non-stab tera ban

hope this helps!

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Given the quality of Natdex ladder, I am not surprised by the outcome

 

[powergo1]

See you all in another 3 months I guess

 

[Runo]

See you all in another 3 months I guess

there's not gonna be another, this is it.

quick edit: I asked NatDex Mods, Council, and I think even the tier leader and they reassured me multiple times that this would be the last tera suspect. best thing we can do now is start banning shit.

 

[pokeclysm]

there's not gonna be another, this is it.

quick edit: I asked NatDex Mods, Council, and I think even the tier leader and they reassured me multiple times that this would be the last tera suspect. best thing we can do now is start banning shit.

Look, I get why you wouldn't want to suspect something that escaped a ban twice over, as there is precedent to avoid bias in suspect decisions, but this is a pretty unprecedented situation. Tera in NDOU is perhaps the most hated mechanic ever, or second only to Dynamax. The amount of 10/10 votes for action on Tera are far past the point where councils would want to quickban something. Heck, Espathra and Shed Tail got quickbanned from Gen 9 OU after receiving similar support for their brokenness, after quickbans were supposed to be done until HOME's release.

For it to not get overwhelmingly banned is simply not something I have seen. Not taking action when an overwhelming desire for it exists is the sort of thing that leads to tiers getting abandoned. People wanted action on Revive Cats in NDAG, but since no action could be taken by the very nature of Anything Goes, people thought the tier was unplayable, and ditched it for Nat Dex Ubers.

Accusations of voting manipulation aside, getting suspect reqs for the Nat Dex tier is also easier than most, as many more casual players like running gimmick teams they couldn't in OU, allowing easier feasting on the lower tiers for suspect tests, allowing less skilled players to more easily get reqs than other tiers.

I'm not saying to take any particular action, especially given that I haven't really played the tier at all, but in a situation like this, it seems foolish to completely shut the door on any action on such an unpopular mechanic. To take Dynamax as an example again, Ubers implemented a restriction on Tera, left it like that for nearly a year, then banned it. Just because something is considered solved once does not mean it's solved forever.

 

[Souper Theo]

Look, I get why you wouldn't want to suspect something that escaped a ban twice over, as there is precedent to avoid bias in suspect decisions, but this is a pretty unprecedented situation. Tera in NDOU is perhaps the most hated mechanic ever, or second only to Dynamax. The amount of 10/10 votes for action on Tera are far past the point where councils would want to quickban something. Heck, Espathra and Shed Tail got quickbanned from Gen 9 OU after receiving similar support for their brokenness, after quickbans were supposed to be done until HOME's release.

For it to not get overwhelmingly banned is simply not something I have seen. Not taking action when an overwhelming desire for it exists is the sort of thing that leads to tiers getting abandoned. People wanted action on Revive Cats in NDAG, but since no action could be taken by the very nature of Anything Goes, people thought the tier was unplayable, and ditched it for Nat Dex Ubers.

Accusations of voting manipulation aside, getting suspect reqs for the Nat Dex tier is also easier than most, as many more casual players like running gimmick teams they couldn't in OU, allowing easier feasting on the lower tiers for suspect tests, allowing less skilled players to more easily get reqs than other tiers.

I'm not saying to take any particular action, especially given that I haven't really played the tier at all, but in a situation like this, it seems foolish to completely shut the door on any action on such an unpopular mechanic. To take Dynamax as an example again, Ubers implemented a restriction on Tera, left it like that for nearly a year, then banned it. Just because something is considered solved once does not mean it's solved forever.

Agreed, haven't played nat dex that much but this is a weird decision to make considering there's probably not going to be a new generation for a couple years, which is more then enough time to suspect tera again

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Look, I get why you wouldn't want to suspect something that escaped a ban twice over, as there is precedent to avoid bias in suspect decisions, but this is a pretty unprecedented situation. Tera in NDOU is perhaps the most hated mechanic ever, or second only to Dynamax. The amount of 10/10 votes for action on Tera are far past the point where councils would want to quickban something. Heck, Espathra and Shed Tail got quickbanned from Gen 9 OU after receiving similar support for their brokenness, after quickbans were supposed to be done until HOME's release.

For it to not get overwhelmingly banned is simply not something I have seen. Not taking action when an overwhelming desire for it exists is the sort of thing that leads to tiers getting abandoned. People wanted action on Revive Cats in NDAG, but since no action could be taken by the very nature of Anything Goes, people thought the tier was unplayable, and ditched it for Nat Dex Ubers.

Accusations of voting manipulation aside, getting suspect reqs for the Nat Dex tier is also easier than most, as many more casual players like running gimmick teams they couldn't in OU, allowing easier feasting on the lower tiers for suspect tests, allowing less skilled players to more easily get reqs than other tiers.

I'm not saying to take any particular action, especially given that I haven't really played the tier at all, but in a situation like this, it seems foolish to completely shut the door on any action on such an unpopular mechanic. To take Dynamax as an example again, Ubers implemented a restriction on Tera, left it like that for nearly a year, then banned it. Just because something is considered solved once does not mean it's solved forever.

If tera is such a hate mechanic, then the ladder activity will die out. Smogon will not bend its rule to accomodate an unofficial meta.

Essentially there's 2 choice left. Either play the meta, or leave it for good. There are plenty of other Smogons 6v6 singles meta out there that are still playable

 

[about15guys]

Look, I get why you wouldn't want to suspect something that escaped a ban twice over, as there is precedent to avoid bias in suspect decisions, but this is a pretty unprecedented situation. Tera in NDOU is perhaps the most hated mechanic ever, or second only to Dynamax. The amount of 10/10 votes for action on Tera are far past the point where councils would want to quickban something. Heck, Espathra and Shed Tail got quickbanned from Gen 9 OU after receiving similar support for their brokenness, after quickbans were supposed to be done until HOME's release.

For it to not get overwhelmingly banned is simply not something I have seen. Not taking action when an overwhelming desire for it exists is the sort of thing that leads to tiers getting abandoned. People wanted action on Revive Cats in NDAG, but since no action could be taken by the very nature of Anything Goes, people thought the tier was unplayable, and ditched it for Nat Dex Ubers.

Accusations of voting manipulation aside, getting suspect reqs for the Nat Dex tier is also easier than most, as many more casual players like running gimmick teams they couldn't in OU, allowing easier feasting on the lower tiers for suspect tests, allowing less skilled players to more easily get reqs than other tiers.

I'm not saying to take any particular action, especially given that I haven't really played the tier at all, but in a situation like this, it seems foolish to completely shut the door on any action on such an unpopular mechanic. To take Dynamax as an example again, Ubers implemented a restriction on Tera, left it like that for nearly a year, then banned it. Just because something is considered solved once does not mean it's solved forever.

honestly after thinking about it I feel like the people crying wolf for voting manip are missing the bigger issue if anything, which is the incredibly low bar to make reqs in the first place, I know sealoo's made some great posts about it as a whole, so I'd highly recommend reading his, as they're very informative, but I feel like you summed it up quite well, that being people mainly come to ndou to run funny gimmick teams, not play competitvely, while it's a damn shame tera stayed, all the bellyaching in the world won't fix it, so all we can do for now is hunker down and accept the consequences

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

And here I was having fun without Tera for once...

Well, this was the vote. Can't say I'm impressed nor surprised, though.

 

[powergo1]

So-called "most hated mechanic ever" can't even get 60% of voters to remove it from the tier