Terrakion (Mixed)

[Basti]

[SET]
name: Mixed
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: X-Scissor / Substitute*
item: Life Orb / Air Balloon*
nature: Hasty / Naive
evs: 180 Atk / 76 SpA / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:

• Terrakion's worst nightmare, Gliscor (assuming its 252/184/0 impish), takes 79-93% from this set's HP Ice. Assuming it switched into rocks, poison heal is basically nullified. It takes a CC, which does a minimum of 22%. You then fire off an HP Ice. Now, if you do the math, that's (12,5%) + 22% (-12,5%) + 79% = 101%!
• Once Gliscor is gone most teams usually don't have much to take an lo CC coming from Terrakion's beastly attack stat.
• Even with a few less attack EVs, lo CC still does massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it.
• HP Ice will also always OHKO Landorus after sr. (65% chance w/o)
• X-Scissor is obviously for Celebi, that's about it.

Additional Comments:

• A set with balloon and substitute is possible, forcing Gliscor to use Ice Fang or Facade (provided they don't have Acrobatics) which will not break your sub. HP Ice will not do as much, but it will still be a solid 2HKO (61-71%).
• Now that Excadrill is banned, which was arguably the best Terrakion check, it is much easier for it to sweep.

Teammates & Counters:

• Stealth Rocks is needed, for obvious reasons.
• Rotom-W pairs very well with Terrakion, as it can take on a lot the things that still wall you like Jellicent and Slowbro.
• Like I said, Jellicent and Slowbro still pretty much walls this set.
• Terrakion is weak to some common priority, mainly bullet and mach punch. (CB Scizor's BP can easily OHKO) Azuamrill's aqua jet or Lucario's Vacumm Wave, although not so common, also need to mentioned. Again, Rotom-W pairs very well as it resists half (and the most common) of the priorities Terrakion is weak to.
• Anything faster or scarfed and can hit Terrakion super effectively usually won't have trouble checking Terrakion. (Landorus, Politoad, or even opposing Terrakion.
• Reuniclus also does a pretty good job of beating this set. Tyranitar is an excellent partner because he can handle Reuniclus (most of the time), and also set up sand to boost Terrakion's sDef, giving it a little extra bulk.

Calcs:

Hide

• Hidden Power Ice vs Gliscor (252/0): 79,1 - 93,79% (43,75% OHKO w/ SR)
• Hidden Power Ice vs Landorus (0/0): 94,04 - 110,34% (OHKO w/ SR)
• Close Combat vs Standard Rotom-W (112/0): 84,76 - 99,63% (75% OHKO w/ SR)
• Stone Edge vs Standard Rotom-W (112/0/0): 70,63 - 82,9%
• Close Combat vs Jirachi (252/0): 59,65 - 70,05% (2HKO)
• Close Combat vs Standard Ferrothron (252/48 Relaxed): 95,45% - 112,5% (OHKO w/ SR)
• Close Combat vs Chansey (252/252 Bold): 90,77 - 106,53% (OHKO w/ SR)
• Close Combat vs Haxorus (4/0): 89,8 - 106,12% (OHKO w/ SR)
• Stone Edge vs vs Haxorus (4/0): 74,49 - 87,76% (6,25% OHKO w/ SR)
• Close Combat vs Scizor (252/0): 70,26 - 82,51%
• Stone Edge vs vs Scizor (252/0): 58,6 - 69,1%
• Close Combat vs Politoad (0/0): 95,33% - 112,15% (75% OHKO, OHKO w/ SR)
• Close Combat vs Politoad (252/252 Bold): 54,69 - 64,32% (2HKO)
• X-Scissor vs Celebi (220/0): 109,09% - 128,28%
• Close Combat vs Skarmory (252/252 Impish): 41,32 - 48,8% (25% 2HKO w/ SR)
• Close Combat vs Skarmory (252/0 Careful): 54,19 - 64,07% (2HKO)
  adding more soon...

Any suggestions for improvement are greatly appreciated.

And yes, I know I'm pretty much saying all teams have Gliscor, which they obviously dont :P

 

[NatGeo]

I don't really see the point of this, since Work up is already mentioned in OO of the actual analysis. Also I'm sure there are a LOT of important KOs that Terrakion will lose out on when it's minimally invested, and is there anything else that HP Ice is good for BESIDES Gliscor? It doesn't have the greatest special attack in the world, so it's not getting many key KOs unless you decide to bring it in on a slightly weakened Dragonite or something like that...

 

[Basti]

Also I'm sure there are a LOT of important KOs that Terrakion will lose out on when it's minimally invested, and is there anything else that HP Ice is good for BESIDES Gliscor? It doesn't have the greatest special attack in the world, so it's not getting many key KOs unless you decide to bring it in on a slightly weakened Dragonite or something like that...

As I mentioned, Landorus, which it usually fails to KO with stone edge is OHKO'd after rocks. Even w/o Landorus, HP Ice doesn't have to be useful for 10 different things. Gliscor is common enough to get its own move.

Also, you don't need hp ice of dnite, since stone egde does more anyway. Although it could be an alternative if dnite is at low health, especially considering SE's shaky accuracy.

 

[Rakan]

Also, you don't need hp ice of dnite, since stone egde does more anyway. Although it could be an alternative if dnite is at low health, especially considering SE's shaky accuracy.

How is this supporting your argument? HP Ice is extremely underwhelming, and Gliscor can just use Protect anyway to gain some healing. I'd rather run SD / RP / other move over HP Ice... For one threat, it's really not worth it imo.

 

[Setsuna]

As the above user pointed out, the use of Hidden Power Ice on Terrakion is very limited, and the amount of power that a Choice Band or Swords Dance have to offer would contribute more to its success. Moreover, if I were to use the spread you have listed up there, I know I would not be exploiting Terrakion's best weapon, which is its Attack. Now, I'm not going to outright reject this set because I've always liked the concept of a mixed sweeper Pokemon, and Terrakion is pretty fast, has a very good Attack stat, and is not so frail, which combined with the ability to eliminate Gliscor and Landorus makes this all sound very appealing. So, what I'd like you to do is edit your post with a reasonable number of calculations that show how much damage do Close Combat and Stone Edge score on Pokemon that Terrakion would normally face in common battle scenarios (vs Dragon-types, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn and so on). Once you do that, I'll check this thread again.

 

[Basti]

As the above user pointed out, the use of Hidden Power Ice on Terrakion is very limited, and the amount of power that a Choice Band or Swords Dance have to offer would contribute more to its success. Moreover, if I were to use the spread you have listed up there, I know I would not be exploiting Terrakion's best weapon, which is its Attack. Now, I'm not going to outright reject this set because I've always liked the concept of a mixed sweeper Pokemon, and Terrakion is pretty fast, has a very good Attack stat, and is not so frail, which combined with the ability to eliminate Gliscor and Landorus makes this all sound very appealing. So, what I'd like you to do is edit your post with a reasonable number of calculations that show how much damage do Close Combat and Stone Edge score on Pokemon that Terrakion would normally face in common battle scenarios (vs Dragon-types, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn and so on). Once you do that, I'll check this thread again.

Oh wow, I just realized that I never changed the set's EVs. I just kept the Heatran set I copied the format from :s, my bad. But yeah, I still put a lot of EVs in atk, and only enough in satk to kill Gliscor. Sorry about that.

Also, I will be posting some calcs as you recommended.

 

[MetaGross66]

tbh, I've always thought there was no point in HP Ice Terrakion when I found out Rock Gem SD Terrakion already OHKOs Gliscor and a bunch of other walls it would normally have trouble with.

 

[GtM]

I remember posting about how HP Ice Terrakion with no SpA EVs and a neutral nature could 2HKO Gliscor without Rocks, and wanted it to be a slash on the Rock Polish set (at the time) I think it got rejected, if i recall. In this situation, you're probably just better off switching to something like Rotom-W or Skarmory than wasting a moveslot on literally one pokemon. Especially since Gliscor's decreasing in popularity.

 

[Pocket]

MetaGross66 has a point. Rock Gem Terrakion needs to be Adamant Nature to really seal the OHKOs on mons like Gliscor, Tangrowth, Slowbro, Skarmory, and Forretress, though. Gliscor is only OHKOed 31% of the time by a +2 Rock Gem-boosted Stone Edge from a Jolly Terrakion, for instance. Adamant brings that up to 87%. Identical situation for Forretress. +2 Stone Edge falls short in taking out Slowbro and Tangrowth with SR if it's Jolly, as well.

I guess a little bit of residual damage on Gliscor / Forretress and some Spikes support for the Regenerators can patch up this issue, though. However, if you're using Terrakion as a wall-breaker rather than a mid / late-game Sweeper, the extra attack boost from Adamant is desirable imo.

 

[Evire]

Hi Basti, glad you've posted this because I used a set like this only with Expert Belt and it's pretty viable, but in my opinion you could easily pair a Jirachi Lure Set with Hp Ice to lure gliscor for a clean OHKO and proceed to sweep using a Choice Band set.

 

[ParaChomp]

If I were wanting to use an Ice move, I would switch out to a Pokemon that has Terrakion's resistances, like Rotom-F, and strike with a powerful Blizzard or Ice Beam.

 

[Jayde]

Then Gliscor could just switch out. The whole point is that people won't expect HP Ice coming from Terrakion, so they won't be afraid to switch their Gliscor in

 

[ParaChomp]

Then Gliscor could just switch out. The whole point is that people won't expect HP Ice coming from Terrakion, so they won't be afraid to switch their Gliscor in

That's why it shouldn't get an analysis, nobody will be expecting it even more.

 

[twash]

Skarmory doesn't really wall this set amazingly, CC does 41.32% - 48.80% to max/max Impish (you forgot LO in your calc) so it can be put in a bad position pretty quickly. Tbh, I think this set should go on site. It's different enough from the Double Booster set because that set is more aimed at setting up a sweep as opposed to just hitting things hard, and obviously it's different to a Choiced set because of how you can play it with the threat of switching moves.

Honestly, I think people are missing the point of this set. It's just a simple and solid hit-hard threat that tries to cover as much as possible in four moves. The fact that HP Ice is "worthless most of the time" doesn't really matter because it hits what it needs to hit to allow Terrakion to have fun with its other moves. This is a very hard set to play around. This has advantages over the other sets in that it doesn't need to take the "risk" of predicting the opponent, it can go for the obvious move and just moves to whatever comes in. And generally because there are so few fast Pokemon capable of taking Terrakion's hits, if you do manage predict an attack then you will have to predict the next move, and so on... and it's very hard to predict several moves in a row, and if you're switching that much then you're probably being worn down enough for Terrakion to be considered a success anyway.

 

[Lee]

it's not just a case of luring out and KO'ing Gliscor - it also achieves the subtley different purpose of stopping Gliscor from countering you which is pretty huge in breaking down defensive cores. Anybody who has used Mienshao can testify to the utility of Hidden Power Ice on your Fighting type.

but i really dislike X-Scissor/Substitute in the last slot - I can't help but feel that Swords Dance is the better option but you've purposely overlooked it to differentiate it from existing sets and further highlight HP Ice's worth (ironically enough, 252 Atk Swords Dance Life Orb Stone Edge deals 77%-90% to standard Gliscor, almost exactly the same as your HP Ice does).

not sure on this one!

 

[ssbbm]

wouldn't work up work in the last slot over x-scissor?_?
i mean it would let you ohko gliscor with hp ice

 

[muramusaw8]

Work Up could be placed over X-Scissor, but that's basically a warning sign for the opponent that your Terrakion is mixed. Unless you're terrified of Celebi, Swords Dance or Rock Polish might be preferred.

 

[Basti]

@twash: Thanks, appreciate the positive feedback, and yeah, I did forget lo on that calc. Thanks for pointing it out.

@Lee: hm, I never really though about running sd in the last slot, I usually run x-scissor, because well, celebi. For some reason people dont switch out celebi against terrakion as much as they should... and yeah, it is kind of like mienshao, except bulkier and access to stab stone edge - an awesome abbility (justified doesnt come into play enough, its just too risky :l)

@ssbbm: work up kind of ruins the point of this set, it's not supposed to boost its satk, it's supposed to force gliscor in and then surprise it. If terrakion went for work up on you, I think you would think twice before switching/staying in with gliscor :P

Remember!: Setting up costs you 1 whole turn, which might be 1 turn too many :P

 

[RaikouLover]

I don't get the point of this. Swords Dance runs Life Orb and does just as much as HP Ice -_- at +2, but is better against everything else. This is just a less effective Terakion.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

252 +2 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs 252 HP/184 Def Gliscor: 85.03% - 100%
6.25% chance to OHKO

252 +2 Atk Rock Gem Terrakion Stone Edge vs 252 HP/184 Def Gliscor: 97.74% - 115.25%
87.5% chance to OHKO

76 SpAtk Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Gliscor: 79.1% - 93.79%
2 hits to KO

"gg"