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The Burning Sun Of Madness

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Bluwing, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Bluwing

    Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    627
    The Burning Sun Of Madness​


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction:

    Hello guys im BROStime, and ive been playing competetive pokemon for about 5 months now, and yet to be this is my first ever real competetive Uber team peaking 1990 on the ladder, I dont have a picture off it, but I really dont care if you belive me or not. So yeah this team is by far one off my most successfull teams ever no matter tier, and I find Uber realy fun to play because you have so many oppurtunites when it comes pokemon and power. So anyway this team is as you saw a sun team which was the main weather I wanted to build it around, as rain teams are just so overused in ubers, which I think is kinda sad as both sand & sun can do extremely well in ubers. Anyway enough blabbering from me start.

    The Team In Detail


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    GROUDON @ Earth Plate
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    Earthquake | Fire Punch | Stone Edge | Stealth Rock​

    This set is freaking awesome, it deals with so much its not even funny, it OHKO's Dialga which thinks it can set up SR on him with no problems, but that is not the case. Nothing realy wanna switch into this beast as it dents most pokemon who tries to get in on him, anyway Earth Plate is there for a more powerfull EQ, Fire Punch does become a "STAB" in sun which is quite cool and serves great coverage, Stone Edge hits the flying types which think they can laugh on Groudon, and Stealth Rock maby the best move in the game is there for denting the flying types like Ho-Oh and Lugia.


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    HEATRAN @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    Evs: 252 SAtk | 252 Spd | 4 SpD
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    Overheat | Dragon Pulse | Hidden Power [Rock] | Fire Blast

    Heatran, man I love this pokemon, and also as Heatran is quite rare in ubers, and people realy dont expect to face it they realy dont have real counter too it bar Kyogre which my team can handle nicely. So this thing is mainly my Darkrai check as Darkrai can be freaking annoying, therefore I run Timid nature to outspeed Darkrai, and OHKO with Overheat when the Sash is broken. Fire Blast is there to handle ExtremeKiller as it 2HKO's in sand, while facing rain Forretress can toxic stall it if it dosnt carry Flamethrower. HP Rock is for HO-OH which can be bit problematic to face if played well, and finally Dragon Pulse so I can revenge them dragons which is just wonderfull.


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    FORRETRESS @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP | 252 SpD | 4 Def
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    Spikes | Rapid Spin | Toxic | Toxic Spikes​

    Forretress ! So this is my rapid spinner which is so much needed if Ho-Oh is gonna live through the whole match, and having Spikes, Toxic and Toxic Spikes for support and hazards is just amazing. This little "ball" is my main dragon counter, and just eats them Outrages or Draco Meteor's, anyway Forretress does is job amazingly well, and is probably one off the best spinners in ubers by ease. Toxic is really great for denting ghost switch ins like Arceus Ghost or none RestTalk Giratina which is fantastic in my opinion.


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    ARCEUS-GHOST @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 SAtk | 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    Judgement | Focus Blast | Recover | Calm Mind​

    So here is my spin blocker, every spike stacking team needs a spin blocker so the hazards wont be a waste time to ut down. Ghostceus is freaking amazing, it has perfect neutral coverage and calm mind to boost its already good SAtk stat to boost even higher, this guy can wreck unprepared teams and its nice way to dent Giratina with Judgement before Dragon Tailing me out. Recover is there for reliable recovery which is just awesome, but anyway this guy hates Toxic, Burns, and Thunder Waves so I have to play it carefull and safe sometimes.


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    HO-OH @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP | 176 Atk | 84 SpD
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    Brave Bird | Sacred Fire | Substitute | Recover​

    Wow this bird is a freaking monster ! I just love this pokemon, it has saved so many games for me, and is unreplaceable no matter what. Anyway Sacred Fire is amazing to deal with physicak switch ins as it has a nasty 50% chance to burn the target, also Brave Bird is an awesome STAB option against the likes off Kyogre as it deals quite a bit off damage, substitute is there for toxic stalling or just making huge subs to stall anyway which is pretty damn sweet, and I just love how so many teams is weak to this pokemon.


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    LATIAS @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP | 252 Spd | 4 SpD
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    Dragon Pulse | Substitute | Recover | Calm Mind​

    Last pokemon up is Latias, every team needs something to wall Kyogre, and here is my Kyogre check. Man this Latias is freaking amazing, mono type attacking doesnt really matter as I have Heatran, Groudon adn Ho-Oh for the steels. Dragon Pulse is a great STAB option for an set up sweeper like Latias, and with its great speed and bulk with Soul Dew, it can easely set up on a lot pokemon. Substitute is great against Thunder Wave Kyogre, and Toxic no Whirlwind Lugia, calm mind is the for obvious reasons its ther for boosting its SAtk to scary heights, and just wreck havoc.


    Final Thoughts

    So that was my team what did you think of it ? Let me know in the comments, I hope you guys enjoyed reading so hate, love, luvdisc, rate or whatever have a nice day. :pimp:


    Importable:
    Show Hide
    Groudon @ Earth Plate
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Overheat
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Fire Blast

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball
    - Toxic Spikes

    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Judgment
    - Focus Blast
    - Recover
    - Calm Mind

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 84 SDef / 176 Atk / 248 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Substitute
    - Recover

    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Recover
    - Dragon Pulse
  2. Porygon2

    Porygon2

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    Yo BROStime! This looks like a great Sun team, but I think it can be even better with a couple of minor changes here and there.

    I would like to start of by saying that when I first saw this team I got a smile on my face. You're using interesting sets that are definitely not seen very often, but still more than good enough. For that reason I'll be sure to keep as much of the original team intact when I suggest possible changes.

    The first weakness I noticed when looking at your team is the weakness to opposing Sun. Using more offensive variants of Groudon and Heatran does bring along some downsides. The main ''Sun threats'' I'm fearing are Reshiram and Blaziken. At the moment you rely on Ho-Oh to deal with Reshiram, which isn't too reliable. When Stealth Rock are off your side of the field Ho-Oh can switch in on both Blue Flare and Draco Meteor, to then switch out again to let Regenerator work its magic. However, this of course won't work when Stealth Rock are on your side of the field. And as if that wasn't bad enough, Reshiram that pack Stone Edge can be used as well, although these Reshiram variants are quite rare. Looking at it realistically though, Ho-Oh is one of the better Reshiram switch-ins in the game and I don't think major changes are necessary. Forretress' role is very key, however. Keeping Stealth Rock of the field should be priority #1 when facing a team that has a Reshiram. My suggestion would be to lead with Heatran against the likely opposing Groudon lead and go straight for Overheat. Your Heatran ALWAYS OHKOs any Groudon that isn't specially defensive, which adds to the fact that Choice Scarf Heatran is something rarely anyone expects.

    The other major Sun threat I am fearing is Blaziken, especially since your Groudon is the offensive Stealth Rock user variant. My suggestion to solve this problem would be to change your Ho-Oh to a defensive Ho-Oh. Defensive Ho-Oh is one of the best Blaziken counters available and still an extremely dangerous threat when you manage to get up your beloved Substitute. Stone Edge is rarely ever used on Blaziken, so I wouldn't worry about that. Protect and Swords Dance are generally used alongside Blaziken's amazing dual-stab. If a coverage move is ran, it's generally Shadow Claw.

    Dragon Dance Rayquaza is also a huge threat to your team. Especially since DD Ray is generally checked instead of countered, but your team has no way of checking it. If it has ExtremeSpeed over Earthquake Heatran is able to ''somewhat'' check it, but that's not the preferred way to handle it, of course. I would recommend changing your Forretress a little bit, because a minor change in its EV spread makes it avoid the 2HKO from Outrage. If you run Volt Switch over Toxic Spikes you can then Volt Switch out to Heatran, tank the Outrage and go for a Dragon Pulse to seal the deal. Another option would be to replace Latias with a Choice Scarf Palkia, who can easily check Rayquaza.

    The problem with that option is that it would make a currently existing weakness even bigger, the weakness to Gliscor. Even though it may seem weird, but like most bulky Sun teams, Gliscor is a big pain in the butt. However, a very simple change will take care of this problem: changing Substitute to Refresh on Latias. Like you mentioned in the RMT, you liked Substitute to avoid status effects induces by the likes of Kyogre and Lugia. Refresh maintains that luxury, but it has the added effect of defeating those pesky Gliscor.

    In case you didn't feel like reading all of this, which I completely understand, here is the summary of all the changes:

    - Defensive Ho-Oh > Ho-Oh
    - Change Forretress' EV spread and nature
    - Refresh > Substitute on Latias


    Defensive Ho-Oh:
    [​IMG]
    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Recover
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird


    Forretress:
    [​IMG]
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Volt Switch
  3. Bluwing

    Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    627
    Thanks for the rate Porygon2 !
    Those changes seems pretty good, and ill be sure to try them out, as they arent any big changes and can help me patch up my weaknesses to Blaziken, Rauquaza and Reshiram thank you a lot.
  4. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,819
    I agree with absolutely everything Porygon2 has said; those are my usual changes for sun teams anyway. However, due to one of the changes I am about to make, I suggest those changes on the Forretress set:
    1. Use 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD; this allows you to avoid the 2HKO from Choice Band Kyurem-B's Outrage, and Lum Berry Extreme Killer only has 2.34% to 2HKO you after Stealth Rock.
    2. Use Pain Split > Volt Switch; that way, with the combination of Toxic and Pain Split, you get an amazing check to Arceus. Pain Split also releases some pressure off Forretress and allows you to keep it around for longer.

    Rayquaza, as I said, downright 6ko's you. It can easily set up on on a -2 Heatran, or on Forretress (Toxic would suck for it though), and wreck you; Heatran is outsped and KO'd, Forretress is wrecked by Fire Blast, Ho-Oh and Ghost Arceus are wrecked by Outrage, and Groudon is also owned by Draco Meteor or Outrage. This is quite a horrible weakness, not to mention that Psycho Killer Mewtwo can also shred you, as Heatran's Overheat does not OHKO after a Calm Mind boost.

    There's quite an easy fix for this. Choice Scarf Heatran is definitely not worth it; it's too inflexible. Genesect, however, is an amazing Choice Scarf user as it is probably the most flexible one in the tier. Palkia and Kyogre are just a wannabe. U-turn smacks Mewtwo and Darkrai, Iron Head wrecks Kyurem formes and weakened Arceus, Ice Beam wrecks Shaymin-S and Rayquaza, whereas Explosion deals a lot of damage while Flamethrower is a good move for opposing Genesect and such, just pick what you like.
    Genesect (open)
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Explosion / Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam


    Best of luck!

    EDIT: I completely forgot; change Ghost Arceus's HP EVs 252 HP and 4 SpA, so Arceus could tank attacks much easier from Rayquaza and Arceus.
  5. Bluwing

    Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    627
    Thanks for the rate Furai ! I can really see the weaknesses that you point out when your detailing why they are threathening to me, but the way I play is to play on resistances as im an really offensive player. But in ubers resistances really always doesnt work as some pokemon just hits ridicoulusly hard, so again thank you for the rate and ill be sure to try them out ! :)
  6. ChuckHades

    ChuckHades

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    55
    Hey! That's a nice team you've got there, with some interesting sets too (I love that Heatran). But I can't help but notice you have a Scarf Palkia weakness, a very common Ubers pokemon. Palkia can outspeed and hit your whole team for neutral damage or better, hitting 4 pokes for super effective damage if it packs Fire Blast. And what can you do to it? Sac a poke then switch to a check? Then Palkia can just switch out and switch back in to threaten. Ghostceus cannot reliably take Hydro Pumps either, being normallly 2HKOd after rocks.

    To combat this, I recommend changing Ghostceus's moves to accompany Thunder Wave. With Thunder Wave, Ghostceus can completely cripple Scarf Palkia, making it easily revengeable with one of your pokes. I recommend you change either Focus Blast or Calm Mind, depending on what you want on your Arceus. If you want your Arceus to be more offensive, then get rid of Calm Mind. Arceus already has great Sp.Attack, so unresisted coverage is more important. If you want a more defensive build, then get rid of Focus Blast. You can then Calm Mind and Recover stall Palkia, and you'll still be able to sweep with Judgment if your opponent lacks Blissey/Chansey.
  7. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,034
    Hey there!

    This is a really cool team; however, there are a few glaring problems I would like to address to help make this team as optimal as possible. For starters, as mentioned previously, Dragon Dance Rayquaza really does give your team some issues. It can set up on Forretress, Heatran, and even an unboosted Ghosteus, and you'll be having problems defeating it. Opposing Mewtwo is on the same boat as well just like Furai mentioned (Damn, Furai pointed out like all the weaknesses!). To help out with all of the aforementioned threats, I highly recommend, much like Furai, a Scarf Genesect; however, unlike Furai, I recommend using Scarf Genesect instead of Ho-Oh. While this may seem like a questionable decision, this isn't going to be the only Pokemon change I recommend. Heatran and Ho-Oh cover several of the same threats anyways, so typically having both is redundant. Scarf Genesect gives you a fabulous revenge killer that can nail things like Darkrai, Mewtwo, Kyurem formes, and Rayquaza for good damage and it is the best Scarfer in Ubers in my opinion. Secondly, with this change you become a ton weaker to opposing Calm Mind Arceus, Without Ho-Oh, a simple CM Arceus of any form could 6-0 you flat-out. To help justify this weakness, I recommend a Stallbreaker Heatran > Scarf Heatran. While utilizing a Heatran instead of Ho-Oh may seem questionable, Heatran gives you a solid way of being able to handle opposing Ho-Oh as well as CM Arceus even better. Genesect also cannot lure you in and hit you with Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock or simple Explode and open a sweep for a fellow teammate. Heatran also gives your team a stallbreaker which Ho-Oh simply can not provide. Ho-Oh is very well prepared for by stall teams, but Heatran can utilize Taunt to break opposing Pink Blobs, Giratina's etc. One last weakness that I notice, even without any of the given changes, is opposing SD Groudon. SD Arceus also seems to annoy you. I really like using a Giratina-O with maximum Defense investment and attack investment to handle threats like this. Giratina-O gives you a secondary check to Mewtwo with Shadow Sneak, while its ability, Levitate, gives you a better answer to opposing Groudon. Will-O-Wisp lets you cripple opposing Arceus, Groudon, and other switchins. With the change of Ho-Oh to Genesect earlier in the rate, you become much weaker to Blaziken which GiratinaO checks with ease.

    Sets:

    Genesect found in Furai's rate.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers | Flash Fire
    Calm | 252 HP / 148 SpD / 108 Spe
    Taunt | Toxic | Flamethrower | Roar


    [​IMG]
    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb | Levitate
    Adamant | 216 Atk / 204 Def / 88 Spe
    Will-O-Wisp | Dragon Tail | Earthquake / Outrage | Shadow Sneak
  8. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,701
    Pretty standard sun team. It's solid and it works, but I think a few tweaks could make the team better. First off, if you insist on keeping Heatran, I would drop the scarf and run a more defensive spread. I feel like Heatran has it's niche, especially for a team like this, but being able to Toxic a Kyogre switch-in (assuming Tspikes are not down) could be game breaking from you, specifically because you're choosing to run an offensive Groudon.

    Bri and Furai both mentioned Genesect, and I have to agree with them. Dragons in general give you problems, so something to revenge kill them will be extremely important. (Heatran doesn't really count since it's not outspeeding Rayquaza). I'll let you decide what to replace, but I think you would find it to work extremely well with your team.

    Also, as just a general note, if you want to keep your team as offensive as possible, changing Ho-Oh to a LO set, dropping Forry for Xatu, and throwing Genesect > Heatran. It seems strange, but I think you'll benefit more from Xatu than you would Forry, especially since both your Groudon and Arceus are running very offensive spreads. Just a thought, though. Do as you please.

    Hope I was of some help. Good luck.
  9. Bluwing

    Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    627
    Thanks for rate guys, and im sorry for the late reply.
    Anyway, there are some really good ideas here, first off I really like how Bri said i should still have Heatran which i totally agree with as Ho-Oh would have been a pain in ass to face when not having any bird resistance available. The idea off scarf Genesect is really good letting me have an easier time against rayquaza, so im gonna try out those changes and see how they work.

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