The Experiment-OU

[FooZee]

The Experiment
Well lately I've been putting alot of random teams together with standard OUs and frankly I'm quite tired of getting swamped. This is a team that probably has more weaknesses than I can see, but I'm going to give it a try. Making suggestions would be quite helpful, I surely will make note of whatever you tell me.

Rolecall!

@Focus Sash
Intimidate
Lonely Nature
208 Atk / 50 SpA / 252 Speed
-Dragon Dance
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Flamethrower

Salamence is basically a good opener, he survives the first attack, and then going for the kill. He also 2HKOs Bronzong and OHKOs Skarmory. Being that this is probably the first and last time on the field I'm trying my best too dent as hard as possible. I can see a big problem with weavile who will cause me to switch to an appropriate counter.

@Leftovers
Pressure
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA
-Roar
-Calm Mind
-Surf/Ice Beam
-HP Electric/Ice Beam

This is a my Calm Mind Shuffler/Physical Wall Hah. I chose this because Suicune is a very solid staller, while being able to wall most opposition. Calm Mind can even set Suicune up for a sweep late in the game, and Roar helps with anyone using a baton pass strategy. I.E. Jolteon Substitutes first turn (I will switch to suicune) Then Jolteon (or any other BPer) will BP to a pokemon who will probably stealth rock or use a status move/stat raise, will get roared. Anyway besides stopping a BP opener its able to wall, possibly sweep, hit gyarados for good damage, and such and such.

@Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
Adamant Nature
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
-Bulk Up
-Mach Punch
-Stone Edge
-Spore

8 Speed EVs allow Breloom to outspeed the standard Skarmory, which otherwise, would easily kill him before he can land a Spore. The EVs are focused in Attack and HP, to give Breloom plenty of power, and to help the Defense boosts work to their best ability. Breloom is an amazing pokemon with spore (best sleep move in the game), and incredible 130 Base attack. He mainly switches in on walls, which he then spores. Stone Edge is viable with Mach Punch for good type coverage. Mach Punch is also a decent Tyranitar counter. Bulk Up raises his bad Defense while raising his obscene Attack score as well, thus setting him up to sweep the opponent's team. Weavile, I realize poses a threat here. Toxic Orb, which poisons Breloom actually heals 1/8th of his health because of Poison heal, and also makes him immune to status attacks.

@Leftovers
Synchronize
Timid Nature
24 HP / 248 SpA / 236 Spe
-Substitute
-HP Bug
-Encore
-Psychic

Basically I switch in on a status inducer, like blissey, and take it giving them the same status in return. They will then try and attack me, but I will encore there move. This poses a serious threat against any wall, namely suicune, blissey, dusknoir, umbreon, skarmory, Celebi and other walls. HP Bug hits Psychic Dark and Grass types, while psychic hits ghost, fighting and various other types for great type coverage. This can also setup Breloom for some serious ownage. 24 HP allows for 5 Substitutes.

Switched out for Gengar
Gengar@Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid Nature
252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Shadow Ball
-HP Ice
-Thunderbolt
-Focus Blast

@Leftovers
Natural Cure
Calm Nature
252 Def / 106 SpA / 154 SpD
-Stealth Rock
-Ice Beam
-Seismic Toss
-Wish

Now this is unusual for a blissey I think. He is my special wall, and my stealth rock setup, and my wish passer. Blissey walls alot of things, and Ice Beam/Seismic Toss hurts everything and anything for 100+ Damage. Switch in on something that won't hurt blissey, and stealth rock, then switch to a respectable counter to their blissey counter. Blissey is quite frankly your typical special wall with added benefits. The reason I did not add T-Wave to her is because of 3 Reasons.

1. Alakazam can induce paralysis because of his ability.
2. Blissey needs to have Stealth Rock and wish support.
3. Breloom has an awesome sleep move, and two status inducing pokemon rapes anyway (Assuming the opposite team has a status inducing move as well)

@Leftovers
Pressure
Timid Nature
252 HP / 184 SpA / 72 Spe
Recover
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Psychic

This, is my counter for the biggest threats in the OU Tier. Gyarados, Garchomp, Salamence, and Infernape. This Deoxys-S set allows for a great counter to all 4 of these devastating threats. Thanks to a much superior Speed stat, it is able to reach 455 Speed, allowing it to outrun Adamant Choice Scarf Garchomp. With the 252 HP EVs, it takes much better hits than that of starmie, who basically countered in the same way. It can survive any unboosted attack from standard Life Orb Infernape, it can live a Dragon Danced Waterfall from Gyarados, and even live an Outrage from Adamant Choice Scarf Garchomp. As if that isn't enough, it can easily recover off the damage thanks to it's great Speed. Even the popular revenge killer Dugtrio fails to OHKO Deoxys-S with an Adamant, Choice Banded Sucker Punch, doing around 88% at max. Late game stall wars can be ended much quicker thanks to Pressure and Recover.


Thats the team! Please give good intelligent reviews, most of you probably know more than me anyhow I realize I do not have a special Sweeper, or a rapid spinner. I would like suggestions! :) Thanks in advance, I also have a Deoxys-S weakness, and the main reason I felt that a Rapid Spinner was uneccesary, because the only one pokemon who will be weak to stealth rock is Salamence, who will die anyway.

I am thinking about either making Alakazam a choice scarfed Heracross/Gengar/Weavile or making Deoxys a special sweeper.

 

[Archer]

You mentioned having to switch out of weavile into an appropriate counter but other than Suicune pretty much walling it, you have massive problems in that regard. The lack of Superpower on Deoxys means you can't revenge it easily. Breloom can revenge it with Mach Punch, but you will have to switch in on a Night Slash, which will probably be only used on Deoxys, Alakazam will cop a Pursuit.

 

[FooZee]

Well actually if weavile IS there starter, I can flamethrower since most likely its a lead killer set, or maybe even there own focus sash set, and will go like this pretty much.

Weavile used Ice Shard! Its Super Effective
Salamence hung on using its focus sash!
Salamence used flamethrower!
Its super effective!
Weavile fainted! OR Weavile hung on using its focus sash!
Weavile used Ice Shard! Its super effective!
Salamence Fainted!
(Switch to Deoxys/Suicune)
Either way its pretty much dead. I actually dont know what I was thinking when I said I will switch out to weavile.

 

[Rag]

Your Salamence EV-spead is waaay off. Lonely nature with 164 SpA and 72 Atk will save you 22 EVs. With that said, you'll need Fire Blast to even have a chance of OHKO Skarmory with the given EV-spread (18.75% to be precise). Bronzong is 3HKO by a Flamethrower with the given spread.
I don't believe Focus Sash is really necessary. Unlike Aerodactyl, Salamence can take a couple of hits. However, like I said in another RMT, leading of with a lategame sweeper isn't such a good idea, considering you're easier walled as no Pokémon yet has taken any damage and will be on 100%. I suggest running either CB, LO or Specs, as Salamence will hit anything in general really hard.

Wish without Protect/Softboiled on Blissey gives it a really unreliable recovery move. You'll definitely have some trouble healing Blissey as physical sweepers tend to switch in and does a lot of damage. It's not like a Porygon-Z is going to Ice Beam you twice so you can Wish. You should definitely use either Softboiled or Protect over one of your moves.

Oh, and Yache Chomp will rape you. ;) Outrage will basically kill off your entire team, and Deoxys-S fails to revengekill it due Yache Berry. Bronzong would be a good investment, and it opens a moveslot on Blissey. Bronzong will also help out with your Deoxys-S weakness.

Bronzong
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Hypnosis / Reflect
- Earthquake / Explosion
@Leftovers

 

[FooZee]

I will consider running Fire Blast over Flamethrower, which I think I accidently changed without thinking. Fire Blast can OHKO skarmory. Instead of Wish I will run Soft Boiled, also if you read what I had to say, Deoxys actually outspeeds Garchomp, and survives a non boosted Outrage. Infact, since Deoxys is faster, even if it did have a choice band, its beat by a OHKO ice beam. And who would I replace with Bronzong?

Salamence was meant in this respect to not be a sweeper but a lead.

Also: Focus Sash is pretty necessary if you take into the account of weavile or any pokemon with a ice attack which can OHKO Salamence, and dragon dance will give the necessary boost I need.

 

[Rag]

You can't expect a Yache Berry Garchomp to not run SD, and considering you're unable to take a boosted hit or OHKO, Deoxys-S is a really bad counter.

DDMence is classifield as a lategame sweeper, as it usually works better of against a weaken team. I just explained why it usually fails as a lead.
And I'm pretty sure Salamence don't need Focus Sash to take a hit from Weavile due Intimidate, but Lonely nature is obviously a bad choice of nature. You would still be better of with Yache Berry.

 

[FooZee]

Alright first off what do you think can Counter a Garchomp better? Deoxys S is faster no matter how the garchomp is made. And the fact is, all of my pokemon carry some kind of damaging move to Garchomp. Deoxys S is not a flawless Garchomp counter, but its an extremely viable one.

But saying that Deoxys S is a bad counter is absolutely false. Hell if I took out alakazam for Weavile, if in the event I lose to Yache chomp, I can Ice Shard it for a KO.

The point to deoxys is that I can take out Gyarados, Infernape, and Garchomp all in one pokemon. Its faster, and damage calcs ran, can survive any attack these beasts may give it.

On to Salamence, Salamence will not survive some attacks like you say, Gengars HP Ice (or anyones ice attacks really) can and will be OHKOed. And since you put it frankly, salamence is a late game sweeper. But, I didn't stick to a normal salamence, I went with a starter.

 

[backflip]

Just one nit-pick up front. I would be really careful switching your Suicune into Baton Passers like Jolteon. Most players will fire away a Thunderbolt behind the safety of their Sub, as Suicune is to potent a threat to simply not damage given the opportunity, if that makes sense.

The only other real problem I see is Alakazam, as he generally likes to avoid status. Poison and Burn really hamper his longevity, especially if you plan to utilize Substitute to any effective end. Having him eat a Thunderwave will only allow you to Encore once, as he'll be to slow to take full advantage of it afterwards. Blissey and Breloom, having already been poisoned, are much better status absorbers. Thus, I think Alakazam's position would be happily filled by a Choice Scarf Gengar with HP [Ice]/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast/Thunderbolt. I would also advise making him Timid so you have something to revenge opposing Deoxys-S, who are now almost always max speed, the occasional Jolly ScarfChomp, and any Yache Chomps who may escape from Deoxys's Ice Beam.

Otherwise, looks solid.

 

[FooZee]

I see your point on Gengar, but heres my main concern, I will be putting a status against whatever statused alakazam. Then on top of that, Encoring the status move, then placing a free sub because they are stuck. So Alakazam just basically afflicted a status, got a free sub, and since Psychic HP Bug have great type coverage and is faster than most non choice scarf counters can get a free attack in.

Also Suicune will be switched in on the turn the foe would have to choose thunderbolt or baton pass, since Suicune is not out yet they will go with their strategy to BP it, in which on that turn Suicune will switch in and roar.

 

[Rag]

Read: Yache Berry. No Garchomp will switch in on a Deoxys-S, so we're going to anticipate Deoxys-S switching into Garchomp. Considering most Chomps use SD you're unable to take the hit, and due Yache Berry you cannot OHKO with Ice Beam. Deoxys-S isn't capable of countering Garchomp, however it makes a decent revengekiller. But like I've mentioned already, Bronzong does a good job walling it.

And actually, Weavile is unable to OHKO respectively according my calculations. And for the reasons you've mentioned Yache Berry is still a better option. I can't think of any Gengar who'll stay in on a DDed Salamence, though, which brings me back to my original point. You'll basically just waste a Pokémon.

 

[FooZee]

Gengar will be there lead is what I am saying. Yache Berry I know. Since no matter what, Deoxys will get a Ice Beam in, it can take off the yache berry. Weavile OR gengar (Gengar will be faster) can revenge kill it.

Here I will tell you why the event of Yachechomp not taking a hit from Deoxys.

-Yachechomp is sent in
-He takes some kind of attack
-Yachechomp uses Swords Dance
-I send in Deoxys
-Yacheberry is taken off and he takes %60 damage due to an Ice beam
-Outrage OHKOs Deoxys
-I send in gengar
-Gengar uses HP Ice
-Garchomp Dies.

Thats basically no matter how you put it, will go down. I think you were under the impression that I would give Garchomp the opportunity to use Swords dance and get Outrage off without any consequences at all. And also-Suicune can roar the damn thing away, or breloom can just mach punch it should it still be alive. Btw Garchomp has fire fang so basically Garchomp rapes it after a few turns.

 

[Thunderpup]

Technically, they CAN switch out from garchomp into a gengar counter, to bring back garchomp later to attempt a sweep again, just saying. And yache-chomp will kill with dragon claw, not outrage, so he won't get insta-gimped by bronzong.

I've seen plenty of garchomps with wish support.

Also, sand veil makes 100% accuracy go to 75%...


EDIT:
If you bring in gengar, try the hasty explosion variant. I'm a big fan of that one, being able to take blissey out in shitty situations with SR support.

 

[Rag]

Dude, are you serious? You don't even have a Gengar in your team. -_-

Damagecalcs proves you wrong, so stop arguing and make some changes. There's no need to be stubborn, I'm just trying to help.

k, I'm out of here.. This is just stupid..

 

[FooZee]

Gengar is outsped, and Gengar can get OHKOed by Ice Beam I think, I would have to run the calc, or later OHKOed by Psychic. Really I would just invest some more speed EVs to out speed Choice Scarf gengar.

Would you look at the bottom of my post Rag, I said that I may change alakazam for a choice scarf Gengar. Damage Calcs said that I would'nt 2HKO with two Ice Moves from two different faster pokemon? Thats EXTREMELY unlikely. Yachechomp isn't this god like unstopable force. It can be beat.

Infact, if I were to switch into Alakazam I can outspeed the damn thing, and KO it with Psychic. The only way for garchomp to beat my Deoxys is if its running Yache Berry, in which Yache Chomp will get alot of damage from Ice Beam. Then, since Garchomp will OHKO Deoxys appearently, I will switch into alakazam (OR GENGAR WHICH I SAID I HAVE AS AN OPTION) And Psychic or HP Ice for the KO. That's what I said. Garchomp won't survive that.

I realize I am being stubborn but so are you. And thanks you kinda just proved I'm right rag.

 

[Taylor]

He is not being stubborn; he is making complete sense. Your idea of countering Yache Berry Garchomp is futile because you don't even have half of the combination to successfully excecute the plan. Sure, it's understandably the best route to follow when countering Garchomp, but you yourself cannot do that and that is what Rag is pointing out. Even I suggest you take on board what Rag is offering you.

Non-boosted Outrage does in fact OHKO Deoxys, by the way.

 

[FooZee]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/deoxys-s
See Counter.

It infact does not according to the site itself. Adamant Natured Garchomp Outrage on Choice Scarf (Which is a non boosted attack) Does not OHKO Deoxys. And I've actually taken out my alakazam for Gengar if that is what you are indeed implying, that I dont have the means to use my counter against Garchomp, you are wrong, and this was explained. If you did not mean this I suggest you point out what you did mean.

Anyway thanks for telling me whats wrong without telling me in clear words what you actually meant or that noone ever told me what I should use Bronzong over, I guess noone bothered to read the very last sentence on my post which said that I have a choice scarf gengar over Alakazam.

 

[Taylor]

But that's after your initial debate with Rag, so don't even go there. That calculation regarding Garchomp's Outrage OHKOing Deoxys is when Deoxys is paired with a Hasty nature and using no HP? I don't think so... You're using maximum HP, which is understandable. However, the Hasty varients do not survive Outrage; though I personally prefer Naive, and even that still cannot survive Outrage from Adamant Garchomp.

 

[FooZee]

What are you talking about, the nature is timid, not Hasty, I said see "counter" alright, its at the bottom of the article. Seriously where did you get that from? Don't go there? The Argument with rag was on exactly this subject. I was implying rag never actually gave me good advice on the garchomp problem in question, he just said heres a bronzong, use it. And then your supporting him by saying and actually completely changing my natures and ev spreads to make it so that hes right? Thats complete rubbish.

I'll make a list of the things wrong with what you are saying:

-You implied my Deoxys is OHKOed by a non boosted Outrage, when infact you did the damage calcs wrong or just misread the article in question

-My teams Garchomp counter is very steady. Gengar revenges Deoxys in the event that Yachechomp should defeat Deoxys. (This of course means that Yachechomp will already have taken a strong ice beam)

-Or even if I did use Alakazam, he could Psychic, and since hes undoubtedly faster than the Garchomp, he would finish him off.

 

[Taylor]

That calculation regarding Garchomp's Outrage OHKOing Deoxys is when Deoxys is paired with a Hasty nature and using no HP? I don't think so...

Why don't you read my reply correctly? I haven't once stated you had Hasty. The above is exactly what I said, but where did I give any indication that it's your spread? I'm using that as an example, clearly you should've known seing as I said that spread has no HP EVs or a Hasty nature; something your set does not posess. You said Deoxys (without indicating your own Deoxys) survives an Outrage - it does not. Yours will, however, because you are using Timid and HP EVs.

Don't put words into my mouth.

I was implying rag never actually gave me good advice on the garchomp problem in question, he just said heres a bronzong, use it.

Bronzong was for Deoxys...

 

[FooZee]

Ok Taylor, if you want to get into that, I will tell you how dumb it is to say that I meant that Any deoxys will survive an outrage from Garchomp. I clearly meant that MY Deoxys would survive. I am not arguing for the prowless of the entire Deoxys species I am talking about the Deoxys on my team. And of course Rag never said Bronzong>Deoxys.

Why don't you read my reply correctly? I haven't once stated you had Hasty. The above is exactly what I said, but where did I give any indication that it's your spread? I'm using that as an example, clearly you should've known seing as I said that spread has no HP EVs or a Hasty nature; something your set does not posess. You said Deoxys (without indicating your own Deoxys) survives an Outrage - it does not. Yours will, however, because you are using Timid and HP EVs.

Don't put words into my mouth.

Haha there you go, you did not make the post clear to read in the first place, you read the very first part of the long list of deoxys-S uses, and then when I said you didn't get the point of me saying my Deoxys won't get OHKOed, you then said I am putting words into your mouth (You implied that what you were saying applied to my own Deoxys. And also you never said in your original post if it was my Deoxys or just any freaking Deoxys out there) When I thought that you could've possibly misread what I said, or I misread what you said.

That calculation regarding Garchomp's Outrage OHKOing Deoxys is when Deoxys is paired with a Hasty nature and using no HP? I don't think so...

Again, this a question, and I never said that any deoxys can survive Garchomps attack, I tried to make it clear that my own would survive where other Deoxys S plays would not, but you kinda misunderstood in this respect, though I find it hard to think you actually thought this whole time its been about Deoxys in general.

The facts are when you get down to the bare bone of the argument, it shouldn't even be taking place.

-Deoxys-S (Ok happy, my own Deoxys-S will) can and will survive a non boosted Outrage.
-In the event of Yache Chomp, I will be able to counter it. Again with this exact series of moves.
-Garchomp gets sent in
-I switch to Deoxys
-Garchomp uses Dragon Dance
-Deoxys uses Ice Beam
-Garchomp takes about %60-70 do to Yache Berry
-Garchomp uses (attack)
-Deoxys faints
-Gengar is sent in
-Gengar (Wearing choice scarf) uses HP ice.
-Garchomp faints.

 

[Taylor]

And of course Rag never said Bronzong>Deoxys.

Oh? Wait... what's this?

Bronzong will also help out with your Deoxys-S weakness.

Bronzong
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Hypnosis / Reflect
- Earthquake / Explosion
@Leftovers

That seems to be for your Deoxys trouble, as Rag stated.

Instead of Wish I will run Soft Boiled, also if you read what I had to say, Deoxys actually outspeeds Garchomp, and survives a non boosted Outrage. Infact, since Deoxys is faster, even if it did have a choice band, its beat by a OHKO ice beam.

I see nothing what-so-ever where I can fully understand you are talking about your Deoxys. I replied to the above sentence, and that sentence alone. It's understandable that you can misinterpretate that sentence for Deoxys in general.

I never said that any deoxys can survive Garchomps attack, I tried to make it clear that my own would survive where other Deoxys S plays would not, but you kinda misunderstood in this respect

How did you 'try to make it clear' when there's no signals at all showing that it was your own Deoxys and that others wouldn't survive? How can you honestly say that when I have quoted what you actually said above this quote - which indicated anything but your own Deoxys and had no recollection of others not being able to survive?

You worded something incorrectly and I responded to it.

Now, this RMT can continue so long as it's anything but this entire argument.

 

[FooZee]

I will respond to this post in order, and its the last argumentitive statement I shall make.

That seems to be for your Deoxys trouble, as Rag stated.

No. I made a comment saying my team may be Deoxys weak, he posted this pokemon without telling me which pokemon should be replaced. That actually meant that I'm weak to Deoxys and this will help, not replace Deoxys with this. Now your post can go either way really. You can say this to be the opposite of what I think you mean and it will still be correct.

I see nothing what-so-ever where I can fully understand you are talking about your Deoxys. I replied to the above sentence, and that sentence alone. It's understandable that you can misinterpretate that sentence for Deoxys in general.

Yes and I gave you reasonable doubt that you misunderstood the post. But this entire time I've been arguing for and only for the build my Deoxys has, and again it's silly to make an argument over wether or not thats clear or not. This is because if this had started as a topic on Deoxys-S in general, you would have fair right to say this, but its not, I have a Deoxys on my team, we were arguing about Deoxys, hence we were arguing about my Deoxys, not Deoxys in general.

How did you 'try to make it clear' when there's no signals at all showing that it was your own Deoxys and that others wouldn't survive? How can you honestly say that when I have quoted what you actually said above this quote - which indicated anything but your own Deoxys and had no recollection of others not being able to survive?

You worded something incorrectly and I responded to it.

Taylor, why on earth, once again, would I argue about Deoxys in general and on an RMT Thread where theres a Deoxys S on my team. It dosen't make since that you would think that based on a post that "Didn't say it was your Deoxys, but didn't say that it didn't mean Deoxys in general" when quite frankly meant the Deoxys on my team. And if you seriously want to talk about extremely unclear (And unfair) arguments maybe you should see this:

Non-boosted Outrage does in fact OHKO Deoxys, by the way.

If anything is unclear its this. This came in at a time where there have been no comments that litteraly said "Deoxys in general" and so you made this post like it applied to my own Deoxys. So basically this made it look like I was wrong completely when you took it out of context.
Obviously you can see how this might say "FooZees wrong, what a dick, Deoxys dosen't even work like he says it does." Anyway you should take a look at the below link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

[Taylor]

I am going to skip the entire thread because you can simply counter-argument saying that I should have known, even though you said you tried to make it clear that it was your own Deoxys - where, in fact, you did not.

Non-boosted Outrage does in fact OHKO Deoxys, by the way.

If anything is unclear its this. This came in at a time where there have been no comments that litteraly said "Deoxys in general" and so you made this post like it applied to my own Deoxys

No, this was after you said the mis-worded "Deoxys actually outspeeds Garchomp, and survives a non boosted Outrage." statement.

Now, considering you claimed you won't be replying to the argument I suspect that this RMT will carry on as normal. End of discussion.