ORAS UU The Little Prick - Ferroseed/Shedinja Stall (peaked #2)

Hogg

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Introduction

Since I've been using it for a couple of months now, I thought I'd share an unorthodox stall team I've been having some success with, and see if there are any ways I can improve this team further. I originally just threw it together for fun, so that I'd have something to fall back on when I grew bored with laddering on other teams, but it turned out to remain quite successful even across such major changes to the tier as the release and subsequent bannings of Contrary Serperior, the February tier shifts and more. I find that usually stall teams are more sensitive than most to tier shifts, and require major overhauls, but this team has stayed relatively constant throughout them.

This ended up being the primary team I used when laddering for UULT, where I peaked #2, and I used it in my final game against TewMew during the playoffs, getting me into the semi-finals. I also used this team to get voting reqs on the suspect ladder, where it peaked #3.

Regular ladder:


Suspect ladder:


Anyhow, the team isn't perfect (I'll detail some of its flaws near the bottom), and it's not the easiest to play in the world, but it's the most fun I've ever had with a stall team.

Teambuilding Process

This aspect is always sort of awkward for me, because I rarely build teams (especially stall teams) by picking one pokemon after another in a neat progression like you usually see in "teambuilding" sections of RMTs.

Basically, I enjoy playing a good stall team, but I'd been finding stall in UU to be pretty stale when YABO (and later Yifeng) (EDIT: Oh yeah and eaglehawk) began playing with Shedinja-based stall teams. This looked like a lot of fun, so I decided to try his team out. It was a lot of fun, and I actually even had decent success with an OU version. A while later when I was looking for something interesting to play, I decided to try out my own version in UU.



So to start with, I knew I wanted to make a hazard-heavy stall team focused around Shedinja and Kyurem. Shedinja forces switches like nobody's business, so I wanted a way to punish that, and I had just played around with SubRoost Kyurem on another team of mine and really wanted to give it a shot on a hazard stall team.



Next I added Tentacruel. Tentacruel finds its way onto a lot of stall teams, and for good reason. It has a solid defensive typing, Rapid Spin, decent Speed, and a huge toolbox. Toxic Spikes in particular is brutal alongside SubRoost Kyurem, and Sheddy needs a reliable Spinner, so this was a natural choice.

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Here's where I tried a whole bunch of stuff that didn't work out, including a lot of stall staples. I made some decent teams in this stage, but they all had flaws. The problem is, I needed just too much in those last few slots. I wanted Spikes, SR, a defogger, a couple of reliable walls, cleric support, ways to discourage set-up sweepers, a stallbreaker, and answers to specific threats that bothered the team. It's a lot to ask out of only three slots. In the end, I reached deep into NU once more and found a decent answer:



Ferroseed was something I'd never used in UU, but it seemed like the perfect answer. Like Forry it could both Seed and Spike. Despite the low HP it had better overall bulk, and while the lack of Lefties hurt this somewhat, Leech Seed made up for that and also give me an extra answer to things like Suicune if Shedinja couldn't come in. Iron Barbs also helped considerably. It still has some major problems in UU, but on this team, it worked. Alongside it I ran defensive Florges, who could keep the team healthy while also taking Fighting attacks and Knock Offs for Ferrothorn. Combined with Kyurem, these three could wall a large majority of the metagame.



Finally, for that last slot, I decided on a bulky Mega-Aerodactyl. With the fastest Taunt in the tier this could stop Defogs from clearing out my hard-won hazards and break stall, and as a second Fire resist it took some of the pressure off of Tentacruel. Finally, access to a fast Defog has saved my bacon more time than I can remember.

THE TEAM





Shedinja @ Focus Sash

Ability: Wonder Guard | EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe | Adamant Nature

  • Swords Dance | X-Scissor | Shadow Sneak | Will-O-Wisp

I'm not going to pretend that Shedinja on stall teams was my idea - credit for that goes to YABO , whose own Sheddy stall team held the number one spot on the ladder a while back. That said, this little guy is the key to this team's success. I don't think of Shedinja as a sweeper (though he has swept). Instead, Shedinja is here to force switches and act as an absolute counter to a lot of major threats to stall, such as Suicune, non-Shadow Ball Reuniclus, SubCM Cress, Nidoqueen and more. Shedinja rarely stays in for more than a turn, occasionally bopping the opponent with a WoW or X-Scissor on the switch but just as often doubling out immediately.

The best thing about Shedinja, however, is the immense pressure it puts on the opposing team right from the get-go. As soon as they see this thing in Team Preview, most opponents immediately start becoming obsessed with hazards - and hazard control is what this team is all about. The point of Sheddy is to put the game on my terms from the very beginning, and he does that well.

The set is fairly simple - dual STAB including priority, WoW to nail things on the switch, and Swords Dance so that he can beat things like Suicune without just getting stalled out, or to further force switches - sometimes people will stay in with something bulky that can't touch Sheddy in hopes of luring me into attacking so they don't have to switch into a Wisp, but once they see Swords Dance, they usually switch out pretty fast. I'd love to fit Baton Pass on here, as it would aid in my double switches immensely, but I just haven't found room for it.

CHANGES: If confirmed that SD is not allowed, then replace it with Baton Pass, which will make your doubles significantly easier.


Kyurem
@ Leftovers

Ability: Pressure | EVs: 56 HP / 220 SpA / 232 Spe | Timid Nature | IVs: 0 Atk

  • Ice Beam | Dragon Tail | Substitute | Roost
Much as I love Shedinja, this right here is the real team MVP. SubRoost Kyurem is so goddamned good, I wonder why I don't see it on every team. This is actually my primary win condition. Kyurem has exceptional bulk and a surprisingly solid typing other than the rocks weakness, letting it set up Subs more or less for free against a myriad of opponents. I've used this to stall CroCune out of Scald PP or Entei out of Sacred Fire, used it to wreak havoc with stall teams that relied too heavily on Wish, and just generally scared the living crap out of people who didn't expect to have so much trouble with this BL2 Dragon.

Ice is a really underrated attacking type in UU, and this thing outspeeds and smacks problematic mons like the Nidos, Donphan, Crobat or Hippowdon hard with its STAB Ice Beam off of 355 SpAt. Substitute not only scouts but also punishes anyone who relies on low PP moves like Gyro Ball or Close Combat.

The set is pretty standard for bulky SubRoost Kyurem. That said, I have been considering upping the Speed EVs to 232, so that I always outspeed 252+ Krook. When I first started using this team the Jolly Blackglasses set wasn't super popular, so 216 Speed to bypass base 90s seemed sufficient, but now I feel like that's become the most common Krook set, so it might be time to up Kyurem's Speed.

CHANGES: Now running 232 Speed EVs for Krook.



Tentacruel @ Black Sludge

Ability: Liquid Ooze | EVs: 232 HP / 248 Def / 28 Spe | Bold Nature

  • Scald | Knock Off | Toxic Spikes | Rapid Spin
So Tentacruel finds its way onto like half of all stall teams, and it's easy to see why. Water/Poison is a pretty cool defensive typing, especially when many of the most dangerous physical attackers in UU are Fire or Fighting type. Add in the fact that it can lay hazards of its own, clear out hazards to keep Shedinja, Kyurem and Aero healthy and mess around with opposing teams thanks to Scald and Knock Off, and you've got one exceptionally useful mon.

A word on Toxic Spikes: it's either totally useless or the deadliest thing on the whole team. During Team Preview one of the first things I do is check to see how useful TSpikes will be. If the opponent relies on something like Donphan or Mega-Blastoise to clear hazards, then it's a great way to pressure their spinner right from the get-go, and I often try to drop TSpikes early. And against offensive teams without a grounded poison type, successfully getting TSpikes down and Kyurem into play often means I've won the game. That said, there are a good chunk of games where I can tell right from the get-go that TSpikes won't be useful, and I don't waste my time with them. Like anything else, play it by ear.

Regarding the set and EVs, I used to run way more Speed when Celebi was still in the tier, but now that she's gone I've settled back down to 28 EVs. Other than that, nothing too controversial. Knock Off has been more useful to me overall than Acid Spray, especially since this team doesn't really have an issue with Suicune, although sometimes on the suspect ladder I'll swap in Sludge Bomb for fun to smack Serperior around.


Ferroseed @ Eviolite

Ability: Iron Barbs | EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD | Bold Nature | IVs: 0 Atk

  • Stealth Rock | Spikes | Leech Seed | Protect

So, this little prick is probably the most controversial member of the team. Ferroseed has really exceptional bulk thanks to Eviolite, making it a tremendous physical wall... but it's also incredibly passive, and in many ways is outclassed by Forry. So why do I use this thing? Two reasons, really. The first is Leech Seed, which is always useful, especially for this team. The second is Mega-Aerodactyl. That thing is everywhere, and even fully defensive Forretress takes a solid 30% every time it switches into a Stone Edge.
Of course, there are other benefits as well. Ferroseed gets opportunities to set up hazards against a much wider plethora of opponents, especially bulky Waters (who are more or less a free switch-in for Ferroseed). Iron Barbs is also a plus, thanks to its ability to discourage Rapid Spinners or get chip damage on U-turns. And two new threats to stall, CB Tyrantrum and Swords Dance Feraligatr, both have far more trouble with Ferrothorn than they do with Forretress.

As for the set, I don't even bother with an attack. Sure he's Taunt-bait, but it's not like Gyro Ball or Power Whip would be doing any good even if it was his only choice. I'd have loved to use Thunder Wave or Toxic on here, but I really needed both sets of hazards and Protect, so them's the breaks.


Florges @ Leftovers

Ability: Flower Veil | EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD | Calm Nature | IVs: 0 Atk

  • Wish | Protect | Moonblast | Aromatherapy

Standard cleric Florges. Florges is here over Blissey or Umbreon because otherwise this team would have too much trouble with Fighting types. Florges keeps my team happy and healthy, and is especially important for otherwise problematic threats like Mega-Ampharos. It forms a nice little defensive core alongside Ferroseed, as together they can cover just about any attacker not named Darmanitan or Entei.

Not too much to say about Florges - I'm running the more or less standard set. I've considered switching to the fully physically defensive version, but then Florges loses the ability to reliably wall a lot of key threats, especially things like Mega-Pidgeot, Mega-Blastoise and Mega-Ampharos.


Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite

Ability: Pressure | EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 Spe | Jolly Nature

  • Taunt | Defog | Wing Attack | Roost
Meet the fastest Taunt and Defog in UU. Bulky Mega-Aerodactyl is the glue that holds this team together. This set seems pretty niche, and perhaps it is, but it has worked wonders for me. This thing does so much for the team. With the Speed to surpass the entire unboosted tier (short of opposing Mega-Aeros), this fast Taunt blocks hazards, recovery or Defog. It is also my emergency hazard clearer, able to use its blinding Speed to clear hazards and bring in Shedinja safely in order to stop a sweep.

Anyhow, Mega-Aero rounds out my offensive presence, as Tough Claws Wing Attack deals solid damage despite the lack of offensive investment, and alongside Kyurem and Shedinja ensures that I put a decent amount of pressure on the opposing team despite running a stall team. It's also essential for stopping major threats to the team like Taunt Serperior, SD Heracross and CB Hera/Machamp, and helps me deal with strong Fire attackers.

The set is pretty specific to this team, but it works. I went with Wing Attack over AA just because the extra 24 PP can help in stall versus stall matchups, but AA might make more sense while Serperior is still in the tier just in case a Serp switches in on my Defog (although what Serperior would switch into a Mega-Aero?). EVs ensure I outspeed Bee/Sceptile/Scarf Chandy while maximizing Defense. I've run bulkier spreads here, including a heavily defensive spread that just outspeeds Crobat, but this is the best mix of Speed and Defense that I've found thus far.

Threats

If it's the CM set with Shadow Ball, this is probably the single biggest pain to this team. It's beatable, but boy does this thing do a number on me. Kyurem is my best answer, since it can stall out its attacks with SubRoost and phaze it with DTail if it tries to set up, but even then this thing a pain. My only other option is to pop Sheddy's Sash and attempt to 2HKO it, but any smart player will just switch it out once the Sash is broken, preventing me from doing that in the future. (Note that the proper way to 2HKO this thing with Shedinja is to go Swords Dance + X-Scissor, since that has a ~50% chance of taking it down... otherwise Lefties recovery means that I have only a 2% chance.)

Fire spam in general is annoying to this team. One Fire attacker is not so bad, but Aero and Tentacruel get worn down, so if there are multiple Fire types, it can be problematic. Getting down Rocks to eliminate the number of times these can safely switch in is key. Special mention goes to Specs Chandy, who this team has no real safe switch-ins for (especially with the threat of Trick to scare away Florges).

You would think these would be higher on the list, but in general they can be played around if you know what to expect. Always double immediately out of Shedinja until they're gone, though, as otherwise a switch to any of them means you're dead, unless sacrificing Sheddy to get a WoW on Hippo or X-Scissor on Snow will win you the game. And watch out for Roar/Whirlwind while you're at it...

VoltTurn in general isn't a huge problem for this team, between hazards and Sheddy blocking any potential momentum, but Mega-Amphy's Mold Breaker means there's no way to block this one. Get hazards down fast to minimize switch-ins and keep Florges as healthy as possible when up against a VoltTurn team packing Mega-Ampharos.

Conclusion & Replays

So the team is definitely not perfect. Unlike a lot of stall teams, this is not the easiest to play - it's pretty easy to tilt with this team if you're not paying attention, and there are some things (like Shadow Ball Reuni) that this team finds nearly impossible to get past if used by a competent player. But this team reminded me that stall can still be fun in UU, and is my most overall successful stall team to date.

I'll finish things off with some replays:

Importable

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 220 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail
- Substitute
- Roost

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 232 HP / 248 Def / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Defog
- Wing Attack
- Roost

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
- Shadow Sneak
- Will-O-Wisp
 
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Hey Hogg this team is pretty cool and looks like a lot of fun to play with. I don't really play much UU but I do have some NU experience with Shedinja as both myself and some friends (Kiyo ) have played around with it in the past. Basically i'm just gonna recommend that you switch up your Shedinja set to one more suited to a defensive team. The set is the same EVs but the moveset is Protect / Baton Pass / X-Scissor / Shadow Sneak. This set pretty much makes Shedinja impossible to kill with a choiced attacker and allows you to gain free momentum instead of doing all the Double Switching you outlined in the RMT. You lose a WinCon but you said that Kyruem is your main wincon anyways, and this set does a much better job of pivoting. Cool Team and congrats on the Peak.

upload_2015-3-10_21-13-23.png

Shedinja @ Focus Sash | Wonder Guard
252 Atk / 252 Spe | Adamant
X-Scissor | Shadow Sneak | Protect | Baton Pass
 

MZ

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Sheddy n_n
This seems like a really cool team, just got one small nitpick. Why run Defog aero on a hazard stack team with a spinner? I feel like running roar on aero would be much better to cause even more switches as you force things like entei and Crobat out, and helping with reuniclus a bit. Since you're so weak to fire spam, racking up SR could help a lot. Also definitely don't agree with Can-Eh-Dian's advice (sorry) because you now lose to Crocune once they can't be phased and generally lose a good mon to set up on things like Florges, and wisp is cool to bop mega aero and crobat, although running protect instead could be useful (just keep SD IMO). Hope this helped and grats on your peak.
 
Sheddy n_n
This seems like a really cool team, just got one small nitpick. Why run Defog aero on a hazard stack team with a spinner? I feel like running roar on aero would be much better to cause even more switches as you force things like entei and Crobat out, and helping with reuniclus a bit. Since you're so weak to fire spam, racking up SR could help a lot. Also definitely don't agree with Can-Eh-Dian's advice (sorry) because you now lose to Crocune once they can't be phased and generally lose a good mon to set up on things like Florges, and wisp is cool to bop mega aero and crobat, although running protect instead could be useful (just keep SD IMO). Hope this helped and grats on your peak.
umm you dont lose to last mon crocune because shedinja wins the PP Stall war 1v1 with 48 Shadow Sneaks (and 64 BP's if needed) alongside pressure from Kyurem It might take a bit longer but it still gets the job done. The only time that it doesnt work is if you get Shed vs Suicune 1v1 because struggle hits it but i'll take that + the ability to pivot much more efficiently over SD. Maybe it's just my preference but you still note that you can beat last mon Suicune without SD if you play it right.
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Hey Hogg this team is pretty cool and looks like a lot of fun to play with. I don't really play much UU but I do have some NU experience with Shedinja as both myself and some friends (Kiyo ) have played around with it in the past. Basically i'm just gonna recommend that you switch up your Shedinja set to one more suited to a defensive team. The set is the same EVs but the moveset is Protect / Baton Pass / X-Scissor / Shadow Sneak.
Thanks, glad you like it!

I'll give this Shedinja a shot. I have been wanting to fit Baton Pass on there for a while, so that seems like a natural fit. I may keep Swords Dance over Protect, though, as SD really does pressure teams into switching rather than staying in, and as mentioned I do worry that I won't have quite as strong of a matchup against bulky Waters without SD. I'll play around with both versions and see how it goes. Thanks!

Sheddy n_n
This seems like a really cool team, just got one small nitpick. Why run Defog aero on a hazard stack team with a spinner?
Thanks!

Defog on Aero is generally used either early game or as an emergency button late-game. Since Ferroseed can usually set up hazards multiple times in a match, it's useful for me to not have to rely solely on Tentacruel to keep my side of the field clear of hazards. Here are a couple of replays showing what I mean:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uususpecttest-214821466 -> Defog Aero is the only thing here that kept my team from being swept by bulky SubDD Salamence.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uususpecttest-215345231 -> Aero into Kyurem relieves me of rocks while keeping Nidoqueen from laying more.
 
Hey man, really solid team and congrats for your success with it. First thing I'll say is that I do think it's necessary to bump up Kyurem's speed EVs to 232 as Krookodile is a big threat to any stall team, especially Shedinja teams. The Stealth Rock/Black Glasses set especially looks deadly to your team, forcing out your spinner and threatens to EQ your Defogger on a forced Roost. Even with the reduced SpAtk EVs, Kyurem still OHKOs Krookodile so I think it's totally worth it.

The one big threat I see that's not on the list is Taunt Aero, especially if it carries Stone Edge (to KO Kyurem and 2HKO Tentacruel after SR). Don't really know how to fix this besides putting Gyro Ball on Ferroseed but like you said there's not really room for it; otherwise I think you just have to play around its Taunts and keep Tentacruel really healthy.

Finally, I've heard that SD on Shedinja is a glitch and that it's illegal now :I if that's true, then Can-Eh-Dian's set is definitely the one to go with, or you could use Wisp over Protect to keep punishing Aero and similar switch-ins, if you're not as scared of Choiced attackers. Suicune isn't too big a deal because it's not getting through Kyurem or 64 BPs.

Also holy shit I love those drawings lol props to you if you drew those, or to whoever did. Anyway, congrats again for having so much success with so many underrated mons :]
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Thanks for the rate, dodmen !

First thing I'll say is that I do think it's necessary to bump up Kyurem's speed EVs to 232 as Krookodile is a big threat to any stall team, especially Shedinja teams.
Yeah, that makes sense. Like I said, it's something I've been considering anyhow, so I might as well go ahead and do it.

The one big threat I see that's not on the list is Taunt Aero, especially if it carries Stone Edge (to KO Kyurem and 2HKO Tentacruel after SR). Don't really know how to fix this besides putting Gyro Ball on Ferroseed but like you said there's not really room for it; otherwise I think you just have to play around its Taunts and keep Tentacruel really healthy.
Taunt MAero is definitely a pain; I mostly just try to play around it and hope for the best. If I can stall out Stone Edge then between Kyurem and Tentacruel I do alright, but that's about my only hope. This is basically the only mon that ever makes me consider adding Gyro Ball to Ferro (although even with the huge Speed gap, it doesn't OHKO).

Finally, I've heard that SD on Shedinja is a glitch and that it's illegal now :I if that's true, then Can-Eh-Dian's set is definitely the one to go with, or you could use Wisp over Protect to keep punishing Aero and similar switch-ins, if you're not as scared of Choiced attackers. Suicune isn't too big a deal because it's not getting through Kyurem or 64 BPs.
Woah, that's the first I'd heard of that. If that's the case, then I'll definitely switch to WoW/X-Scissor/Shadow Sneak/BP.

Also holy shit I love those drawings lol props to you if you drew those, or to whoever did.
Ha, yeah, that shitty art was me. I couldn't find any pictures I liked, so I sketched a bunch of them myself. I'm especially proud of the MAero that somehow ended up looking like Kazaam:

 
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