The Mighty Duck (Porygon2 Discussion)

[MetaNite]

Ever since Stark was divided into tiers, there have been numerous discussions on single UU and Uber Pokemon, and I believe OU is deserving of one too.

​

--Introduction--

​

Porygon2 is a truly unique Pokemon. It is a purely Normal-type, and is in the center of its evolutionary chain, yet possesses the highest defenses out of the three Porygons. Despite not being fully evolved, it still makes a rare appearance in the OU tier. Porygon2 is one of very few, if any other, NU Pokemon more commonly used in OU than UU. Middling base stats, coupled by an only decent movepool would have left Porygon2 in the midst of mediocrity. Thanks to Porygon2's amazing ability Trace however, it has a perk only one other Pokemon has (the other being Gardevoir). Trace means, upon switching in, Porygon2 copies the foe's ability. This allows Porygon2 to defeat numerous OU Pokemon by reflecting their abilities back at them.

What Pokemon can Porygon2 keep in check in the OU metagame?
- Gyarados, Heatran, Jolteon, Salamence, Gliscor, Vaporeon, Flygon, among others to a lesser extent

--Viable Moves/Sets--

Most Viable Non-Damaging Moves:
- Gravity- viable field effect
- Magic Coat- helpful against Sleep inducers
- Recover- a must to keep Poygon2 healthy
- Recycle- usable to recover lost berries
- Thunder Wave- cripple sweepers
- Toxic- cripple walls
- Trick- cripple many common counters
- Trick Room- viable field effect

Most Viable Attacks:
- Discharge- bit of both worlds, power and status
- Hidden Power- helpful against its counters
- Ice Beam- great coverage move
- Shadow Ball- most powerful weapon against Ghost / Psychic-types
- Thunderbolt- great coverage move
- Tri Attack - best STAB attack

Porygon2 can make many varied sets, many however, are ultimately outclassed by Porygon2's wacko brother Porygon-Z or other Special Attackers due to their higher Speed and Special Attack stats. While Agility can be used to patch up Porygon2's Speed, without enough Special Attack, he cannot beat many Pokemon who switch into him. Although Porygon2 can use Sharpen alongside Return, there are often better lures for Blissey. Two of the very most viable sets are below:

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
~ Thunderbolt
~ Ice Beam
~ Recover
~ Thunder Wave / Toxic / Hidden Power Ground

Straight from the analysis. This is magnificent Porygon2, counter to numerous Pokemon. Most of what you need to know is straight in the analysis. Some things to note however:

Hidden Power Ground against min / min Heatran
​

256 Atk vs 248 Def & 323 HP (70 Base Power): 208 - 248 (64.40% - 76.78%) - 2HKO

Hidden Power Ground against min / min Magnezone
256 Atk vs 216 Def & 281 HP (70 Base Power): 240 - 284 (85.41% - 101.07%) - 46% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Hidden Power Ground against max / min Metagross
256 Atk vs 216 Def & 364 HP (70 Base Power): 120 - 142 (32.97% - 39.01%) - 3HKO

Hidden Power Ground allows you to harm Pokemon who may otherwise come in basically for free on you. One of the problems with Porygon2 is that Trace only works on Pokemon you switch in on, and not vice versa, so a Heatran could very well switch in and 2HKO you with Fire Blast. With Hidden Power, you can now defeat many of these Pokemon. Most notably however, you can trap Magnezone by Tracing its own ability and then defeat it.

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
Nature: Modest / Quiet
Evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpA
- Trick Room / Gravity
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Recover

Porygon2 learns two fairly uncommon moves that completely change the battle conditions. The first is a standard Porygon2 set, Trick Room, the other, Gravity. Porygon2 is one of the 3 Normal-types that learn Trick Room, the others being Spinda and Arceus. Porygon2 is the most viable in OU to absorb the Ghost-type and Dark-type attacks that plague many Trick Room teams, as most other Trick Room users are weak said types. Gravity is useful when Toxic Spikes are in play and helps if you really need to get rid of a Pokemon, such as Gyarados, Zapdos. It is also useful if you just want that extra boost in accuracy. Under Gravity, Thunder and Blizzard become very appealing options, having their accuracy boosted. This helps Porygon2 fend off Pokemon trying to set up on it. Although this Porygon2 isn't as defensively oriented as the Defensive Duck, it still makes a fine counter to Gyarados.

--Questions/Answers--
​

Q: Is Porygon2 really the best Gyarados counter?
A: Yes it is. While Gyarados can go to the extreme to beat many of its other counters, such as using Payback to beat Rotom-A and Starmie, or Bounce to overcome Celebi and Tangrowth, Gyarados has no hope of beating Porygon2 without a timely critical hit or consectutive Waterfall flinches. Although Vaporeon is immune to Waterfall, it cannot OHKO Gyarados with the 70 base power move Hidden Power Electric, while Porygon2 dispatches of Gyarados easier with Thunderbolt. Porygon2 will ultimately come out of the fight with more health than Vaporeon would, similary to Suicune and Milotic.

Q: Is Porygon2 actually a counter to Salamence?
A: As good as a counter to Salamence gets, yes, Porygon2 is a counter to Salamence. Porygon2 can switch in easily on a Dragon Dance to Intimidate Salamence thanks to Trace. It can then survive the oncoming Outrage, taking no more than 75%, and OHKO in return with Ice Beam. But what about MixMence? A Draco Meteor will certainly defeat Porygon2, but Salamence will be very susceptible to revenge killing by Scizor and other priority users, having likely taking Stealth Rock damage and at least two turns of Life Orb recoil. Dragon Dance on Salamence is more common than Draco Meteor, which means Porygon2 remains a good check to Salamence but should certainly not be used as your end all answer to the troublesome dragon. Something to note about Porygon2 however, is its access to Recover, something other Salamence counters such as Swampert and Cresselia would love to have. It is especially useful in stalling for Outrage confusion or Salamence being fully paralyzed. And although Porygon2 isn't really a direct counter to MixMence, you can always outwit the foe to cripple his Salamence. If Porygon2 comes in on an Earthquake or Fire Blast it will be fairly unharmed. From there you can easily switch to a Steel-type such as Metagross, Scizor, Heatran, etc. to take the obvious Draco Meteor. You can then go back to Porygon2 to take the oncoming Fire Blast / Earthquake, but thanks to Trace Salamence will not only be at -2 Special Attack, but -2 Attack as well making it near harmless. It will either die to Ice Beam or switch out, only to rack up more Stealth Rock / Life Orb damage later in the game.

Q: Does the Defensive Duck really need Special Attack EVs?
A: No, but they can be helpful in certain situations. If you have Discharge (which I would never use if you have a status option in the last slot), then they guarantee you OHKO Gyarados after Stealth Rock, but chances are, you will anyway. They can also be helpful against Substitute Heatran, giving you a slightly better chance to break Heatran's Substitute. As far as I know however, the extra EVs in Defense do not allow you to survive any extra attacks.

Q: What is the best move to use in Porygon2's final moveslot?
A: Depends entirely on your team. Thunder Wave is useful on a slow and steady offensive team, while Toxic is extremely helpful if your team has trouble taking down walls. Hidden Power Ground is also worth mention, because with it you have a way to actually kill Heatran and Magnezone. Otherwise, you'd be doing less than 25% on average to Heatran (extremely helpful against SubTran), even less to Magnezone. Thanks to Trace, you can actually trap Magnezone by copying Magnet Pull, but don't consider switching in to a Thunderbolt, as a Modest Thunderbolt will 2HKO Porygon2.

Q: What kind of team does Porygon2 function well in?
A: Many, as Porygon2 is a very versatile Pokemon. The Defensive Duck works well in bulky offensive teams, as it is often the difference between being swept or not. It acts as a pivot Pokemon, keeping Gyarados and Salamence in check, while allowing the rest of you team to retain an offensive presence. Here is an example team:

Team Siren Song
This is Legacy Raider's acclaimed Team Siren Song. He uses Porygon2 to counter many Pokemon that the rest of his team cannot. This allows the rest of his team to hit hard and not have to worry so much about these Pokemon wrecking up his winning strategy. Although it was made early Platinum, it still works well today. The main addition to the metagame since then is Latias, who is easily beaten by Scizor and / or Tyranitar.

Although Porygon2 does have good defensive stats, it would not be best served on a stall team. It be better to have multiple Pokemon to counter specific threats such as Gyarados, Salamence, Heatran, etc. rather than dump the whole job on Porygon2 as an offensive team might require. Porygon2 also works well in Trick Room obviously, able to sweep with Download or support the rest of the team. It uses Trace to easily come in and use Trick Room.

--Controversy--
​

Although Porygon2 can counter so many Pokemon well thanks to its unique ability Trace, why does it continue to skate the line between OU and not? Why is it Pokemon who are often deemed outclassed, such as Dusknoir being outclassed by Rotom-A, receive more usage than the truly one of a kind Porygon2? While Porygon2 can counter many Pokemon, it faces multiple setbacks. With only 4 move slots, Porygon2 cannot run a STAB move, and even if it did, Normal-type STAB gains no super effective coverage. With only a decent Special Attack stat, Porygon2 has trouble hurting those it can't hit super effective with the BoltBeam combo. The majority of these Pokemon are Steel-types, Scizor and Lucario especially, able to hit hard with Fighting-type attacks. Snorlax and Blissey also come in with no trouble at all. Machamp does not fear an unSTABed Thunderbolt/Ice Beam and will surely OHKO back with DynamicPunch. Porygon2 also has to be the one to switch into a Pokemon in order to beat it with Trace. If say a Jolteon comes in on a Thunder Wave from Porygon2, it can then 2HKO it without much effort. So yes, Porygon2 handles a lot of Pokemon very well thanks mainly to Trace, but it also has trouble with a whole bucket-load of others.

The real question is, do these setbacks warrant Porygon2 to be shoved into obscurity, locked into the realm of NeverUsed (which is truly misleading, as Porygon2 is actually used more overall than many UU Pokemon) or does Porygon2 deserve to be among the best of them, in the OverUsed tier? That is up for you to decide.

 

[Lucario_Skywalker]

After seeing this, I just had to reply. Porygon2 is actually an amazing Pokemon because of its ability to counter many top threats in OU, such as Gyarados, Salamence (to an extent), etc. I use Porygon2 in my current OU team, and it is, quite frankly, awesome. Many people overlook it now, despite all its usefulness, and I think it deserves at least an UU status.

 

[MetaGross66]

Honestly, Porygon 2 isn't as useful as it used to be, but still can serve as a reliable gyarados check. Mixmence just shuts it down. Though it does deserve more recognition than it's getting. Some pokemon like this can prove to be extremely useful like Heracross who has the ability to single handedly shut down the common stall.

 

[Zangetsu9876]

Being an avid user of rain dance, I can only tell you how annoying Porygon2 can be. Both surf and waterfall fail to ohko it in the rain, letting it t-wave back and shutdown one of my swift swimmers and if I get paralyzed the following turn, it can recover, making it even more annoying to take out. It also is an amazing user of trick room, which is also an extreme pain to Rain Dance.

 

[ARandomDude]

I think this calc should definitely make its way in here:

217 Atk vs 297 Def & 374 HP (500 Base Power): 261 - 308 (69.79% - 82.35%)

Even Heatran's EXPLOSION can't beat P2, which means it is very viable for P2 to stall out Heatran.

 

[Garganator]

It's not that usefull like in the past, but some behemots like Heatran, Salamence and Gyarados still exists, so Porygon2 will still be there to counter those threats. Also checking few mons like Vaporeon, Gliscor and Flygon is nice bonus, so Porygon2 still may find his place in teams. The only problem Pory2 has is that it almost give free switches for pokemon like Machamp, Lucario and especially Scizor, which makes it less usefull then in the past. Also with rising usage of Dragonite, Porygon2 has another problem. Unlike in Salamence case Dragonite can't be Traced with Intimidiate, so it may easily OHKO it with offensive Outrage, dent it with Draco Meteor + ExtremeSpeed combination (or SuperPower it for clean OHKO) or just use Light Screen + Roost + Dragon Dance to easily set-up on it (watch out on status though). If Dragonite usage will continue to rise - I don't think Pory2 will make this OU status which I think he deserves. If Salamence and Gyarados are able to overtake Scizor in ladder - I think Porygon2 may have his come back. But only if Scizor will drop being first and Dragonite won't rise too much in usage. Also Latias and Kingdra (Sub one) doesn't mind Pory2, so they're another problems for Porygon2. Many people know this set, which I used in UU, and I think it's not that bad in OU. But I recommend it for UU/NU play, as I think Blissey is still a bit too common to make it really work. But still, if you think something needs Trick Room support and you hate Trick Roomers, which just sit and do nothing, this set is for you.

Porygon2 @ Life Orb
Ability: Download
252 HP / 156 SpA / 100 SpD
Quiet Nature -- 0 Speed IVs
~ Trick Room
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunderbolt
~ Recover / Tri Attack / HP Fighting

I'm using those EVs, as it's a bit of waste to not use of Porygon2's bulk to do his job, especially with Recover. However Standard Max HP/Max SpA EVs are also fine, if you want it to be a bit more offensive. If you switch this guy on physical wall (in OU it's much easier to get this Download boost), you hit surprisingly hard. Trick Room just makes up for his low speed and may help him sweep in some situations. HP Fighting is mainly for Regi bros (in UU) and Tyranitar (in OU). However HP Fire is viable just to surprise some cocky Scizors. Anyway, you may try it, as I really like this set. And unlike more defensive Trick Room, it's much easier to put it in teams, as this Pory2 like I mentioned earlier, may sweep in right circumstances and work on his own.

 

[cantab]

Indeed, the presence of Porygon2 is exactly the reason I switched from Mence to Nite. (Also Nite sticks its tongue out at the evil Flinchrachi)

I'm running Porygon2 on my new team. Reading this thread I'm probably going to switch to HP Ground from Toxic, since it's meant to be my Heatran and Magnezone (and Gyarados) counter. With those out of the way my SDScizor is ready to sweep. (Unfortunately I can't test this team for a bit, since I'm banned from Shoddy...)

 

[Staraptor Call]

I've used Porygon2 in the past, but not as much lately. Back before New Mixmence was so common, DDMence was by far the most popular, so Porygon2 was very useful in the early Platinum metagame. Now, though, with Scizor usage so high and Latias as a better check to Salamence, Porygon2 isn't as useful.

Also, on the first set you listed, why would you ever use HP Ground over Thunder Wave? Thunder Wave is more useful against a variety of threats, but HP Ground is only useful against Magnezone and Heatran, two Pokemon that would already be very crippled by Thunder Wave.

 

[Despotar]

I've used Porygon2 in the past, but not as much lately. Back before New Mixmence was so common, DDMence was by far the most popular, so Porygon2 was very useful in the early Platinum metagame. Now, though, with Scizor usage so high and Latias as a better check to Salamence, Porygon2 isn't as useful

I'm kind of feeling the same way.

 

[DJXO9]

The main problem is its lack of resistances. Its only one is the immunity to Ghost. Any hard hitting STAB attack is going to do a lot of damage, so the only uses for Porygon2 are very situation, like switching in on SpecsJolteon or Scarftran.

Having said this, I don't think Porygon should be underestimated though. Heatran and Salamence are both in the top 10. It will find its uses, and with helpful support moves like Thunderwave, Magic Coat, and Toxic, as well as auto-recovery with Recover, it can hamper many other pokemon like bulky waters with toxic and faster pokemon with Thunderwave.

All together, while Porygon2 may have its uses and utility, it probably won't find many situations where another pokemon won't do better. Usually, only its ability will get it uses. Not many pokemon are able to counter Salamence and Heatran.

 

[Stylish Interval]

Edited out the parts that I wasn't going to comment on. Thoughts bolded and italicized. Overall a good job analyzing this often overlooked Pokemon. I appreciate that you are bringing these types of threads to Stark, as well, because it gives the rest of the community and myself something to discuss. It may even end up changing the metagame for the better!

--Viable Moves/Sets--
​

Most Viable Non-Damaging Moves:
- Gravity- viable field effect
- Magic Coat- helpful against Sleep inducers
- Recover- a must to keep Poygon2 healthy
- Recycle- usable to recover lost berries
- Thunder Wave- cripple sweepers
- Toxic- cripple walls
- Trick- cripple many common counters
- Trick Room- viable field effect

These all look viable, but one could question the use of Magic Coat. While it may be useful against Sleep Inducers, Confusion Inducers, and Paralysis Inducers via Thunder Wave, it really means you already have to be in versus that Pokemon - you can't switch in. You won't keep using Magic Coat, though, meaning they can still status you. I don't doubt it's usefulness, but I do doubt when it can come in handy.

Most Viable Attacks:
- Discharge- bit of both worlds, power and status
- Hidden Power- helpful against its counters
- Ice Beam- great coverage move
- Shadow Ball- most powerful weapon against Ghost / Psychic-types
- Thunderbolt- great coverage move
- Tri Attack - best STAB attack

While Shadow Ball is Porgyon2's best weapon against Ghost- and Psychic-types, you have to think about the most common ones. Gengar, Rotom-A, Latias, and Azelf all pop into my mind. Of all of those, I'd rather hit them all with Thunder Wave, or Rotom-A and Latias with Toxic. Shadow Ball really doesn't even have a use on an attacking set, as running with Recover and Tri-Attack, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam will provide greater aiding coverage. Even HP Fighting might be considered for hitting Tyranitar.

--Questions/Answers--
​

Q: Is Porygon2 actually a counter to Salamence?
A: As good as a counter to Salamence gets, yes, Porygon2 is a counter to Salamence. Porygon2 can switch in easily on a Dragon Dance to Intimidate Salamence thanks to Trace. It can then survive the oncoming Outrage, taking no more than 75%, and OHKO in return with Ice Beam. But what about MixMence? A Draco Meteor will certainly defeat Porygon2, but Salamence will be very susceptible to revenge killing by Scizor and other priority users, having likely taking Stealth Rock damage and at least two turns of Life Orb recoil. Dragon Dance on Salamence is more common than Draco Meteor, which means Porygon2 remains a good check to Salamence but should certainly not be used as your end all answer to the troublesome dragon. Something to note about Porygon2 however, is its access to Recover, something other Salamence counters such as Swampert and Cresselia would love to have. It is especially useful in stalling for Outrage confusion or Salamence being fully paralyzed. And although Porygon2 isn't really a direct counter to MixMence, you can always outwit the foe to cripple his Salamence. If Porygon2 comes in on an Earthquake or Fire Blast it will be fairly unharmed. From there you can easily switch to a Steel-type such as Metagross, Scizor, Heatran, etc. to take the obvious Draco Meteor. You can then go back to Porygon2 to take the oncoming Fire Blast / Earthquake, but thanks to Trace Salamence will not only be at -2 Special Attack, but -2 Attack as well making it near harmless. It will either die to Ice Beam or switch out, only to rack up more Stealth Rock / Life Orb damage later in the game.

I'm going to be honest with you here, you referred to Porygon2 as a counter to Salamence more times than you said it wasn't. And it really isn't. Draco Meteor is run exactly 6% less on moves than Dragon Dance. Meaning it can't take that hit. You did mention that you can play mind games, but your example basically insinuated that the opponent was not predicting like you were. He could easily see a switch to a Steel type, and end up killing it. You also mentioned revenge killing, but all that is is sacrificing Porygon2 to send in something else, defeating the purpose of even using it; you could have done that with any Pokemon. Really it is just a counter to DDMence.

Q: Does the Defensive Duck really need Special Attack EVs?
A: No, but they can be helpful in certain situations. If you have Discharge (which I would never use if you have a status option in the last slot), then they guarantee you OHKO Gyarados after Stealth Rock, but chances are, you will anyway. They can also be helpful against Substitute Heatran, giving you a slightly better chance to break Heatran's Substitute. As far as I know however, the extra EVs in Defense do not allow you to survive any extra attacks.

Just wanted to point out that to get a guaranteed break on Heatran's substitute, you need to hit 293 Special Attack (188 EVs). That hits a minimum 25.08% on the standard min/min.

293 Atk vs 248 Def & 323 HP (95 Base Power): 81 - 96 (25.08% - 29.72%)

They just guarantee it, you can probably aim for lower, but then you run the risk of not breaking the sub. Something you can live with though, I'm sure.

Against Gyarados with the regular 40 EVs, you have a 2.46% chance to OHKO against a RestTalk Gyarados with Discharge.

256 Atk vs 237 Def & 394 HP (80 Base Power): 248 - 296 (62.94% - 75.13%)

A 92.31% chance against regular DDGyarados.

256 Atk vs 237 Def & 331 HP (80 Base Power): 248 - 296 (74.92% - 89.43%)

A 33.33% chance against a BulkyDos.

256 Atk vs 237 Def & 370 HP (80 Base Power): 248 - 296 (67.03% - 80.00%)

So you need to run around the same EVs to get a guaranteed KO on BulkyGyara (286 Sp.A will provide the guaranteed KO). You can again, run less of course and probably still KO, but you still need a good investment to KO, coming straight out of your defending stats. I say that getting the KO on these Pokemon is not worth sacrificing your defensive stats.

--Controversy--
​

Although Porygon2 can counter so many Pokemon well thanks to its unique ability Trace, why does it continue to skate the line between OU and not? Why is it Pokemon who are often deemed outclassed, such as Dusknoir being outclassed by Rotom-A, receive more usage than the truly one of a kind Porygon2? While Porygon2 can counter many Pokemon, it faces multiple setbacks. With only 4 move slots, Porygon2 cannot run a STAB move, and even if it did, Normal-type STAB gains no super effective coverage. With only a decent Special Attack stat, Porygon2 has trouble hurting those it can't hit super effective with the BoltBeam combo. The majority of these Pokemon are Steel-types, Scizor and Lucario especially, able to hit hard with Fighting-type attacks. Snorlax and Blissey also come in with no trouble at all. Machamp does not fear an unSTABed Thunderbolt/Ice Beam and will surely OHKO back with DynamicPunch. Porygon2 also has to be the one to switch into a Pokemon in order to beat it with Trace. If say a Jolteon comes in on a Thunder Wave from Porygon2, it can then 2HKO it without much effort. So yes, Porygon2 handles a lot of Pokemon very well thanks mainly to Trace, but it also has trouble with a whole bucket-load of others.

The real question is, do these setbacks warrant Porygon2 to be shoved into obscurity, locked into the realm of NeverUsed (which is truly misleading, as Porygon2 is actually used more overall than many UU Pokemon) or does Porygon2 deserve to be among the best of them, in the OverUsed tier? That is up for you to decide.

To be honest, I personally think the reason it is NU is because it can't threaten anything outside of the OU tier, and since it doesn't fit well on Stall Teams (popular) or Offensive teams (not bulky), it won't fit on all teams and won't be used much. With teams having trouble with specific threats at the same time, such as DDMence, Tran, and Gyarados, it can be used efficiently, but it really has no uses outside of that. This is why Porygon2 cannot break the barrier and reach OU. It has a niche, but it's a niche that can generally be filled in other means by other Pokemon as well. Perhaps if the steel metagame dies down and a new era of Pokemon happens, it will be elevated to a new OU status. Until then, though, I just don't see it happening.

 

[mtr]

To be honest, I haven't actually used Porygon2 in my OU career, but I've seen plenty. It has serious annoyance potential against physically minded offensive teams with Thunder Wave, but that's really it. Basically, I would only ever consider it on teams that included things that are setup fodder for many sweepers, such as Choice Band Mamoswine.

 

[Anachronism]

I think that the problem with p2 is its lack of offense which relegates him to stall/balance teams (which usually have things they would rather use that can go on the offensive), as well as the fact that it only counters a specific set of pokes and is really able to do nothing to the rest. Here are the things that it likes switching into:

Salamence
Gyarados
Flygon
Jolteon
Vaporeon
Heatran

Salamence is running a lot of Draco Meteor sets now, so I hesitate to call him a solid switch-in when compared to, say, swampert or cress. Gyarados is already countered/checked by the ubiquitous rotom h. Good luck getting a teamslot past him... Flygon is easily walled by anything with decent defense, and the last 3 are all walled better by Blissey. Oh, and Vappy commonly carries toxic, the #2 bane of p2's existence behind Close Combat/Superpower (two pretty common moves right now).

Another problem is that p2 is walled so easily by things like pert/blissey if it doesn't use toxic. If it does use toxic, then scizor/steels in general lol at it.

In summary, it has to compete for team slots with things that can do more stuff. If you REALLY need something that can wall gyara and jolteon/heatran/vappy, you may want to use it, but I would rather use something a little bit more versatile like blissey, celebi, cresselia, rotom, or latias. They don't do specifically what p2 does, but they cover more threats better, and teams can easily be shuffled around a bit. Stall/Balance doesn't really have room for him (he doesn't contribute any hazards/support really), and offense would never use him.

 

[afterburn]

The reason P2 is down there and not up there is perhaps it can only, very well, take care of the aforementioned threats and not beyond it. After incapacitating the threats it can take out, people think it becomes dead weight. So instead of using P2 as a counter to the top threats people tend to use Pokemon like Zapdos, which can not only beat Gyarados (Maybe SE variants to a lesser extent.) but can also help wear out threats, which it doesn't necessarily counter, but instead can wear them out with a good sp. atk, and STAB T-bolt, which is what P2 lacks.

 

[M BLADE]

Just one thing: you can add Zap Cannon to the Gravity set, since it's just better than Thunder with Gravity.

Porygon 2 is used as a all-out counter to many threats. Blissey can wall Vaporeon/Jolteon/Heatran, but can't wall Gyarados/DD Salamence/CB Flygon for example. Or even Dugtrio/Magnezone who are both trapped thanks to Trace.

Porygon 2 does all that by itself. That's its usefulness. Sure, it won't do much against Scizor, Blissey, Lucario and the like, but it still a good poke for sure.

Basically, its 2 best sets are: Gravity Zap Cannon(which allows you to hit a little more harder since Zap Cannon acts like Thunder+Thunder Wave on one set) and the Toxic one(who lets you cripple walls that Porygon 2 hates).

If you want to spread some paralize, i would use the Gravity set. I would NEVER use Porygon 2 with Thunder Wave when i just have Gravity+Zap Cannon to work with.

There's some other niches for Porygon 2 too, like a Trick Specs set, or a Agility+Charge Beam set. But don't count on it.

 

[cantab]

Just one thing: you can add Zap Cannon to the Gravity set, since it's just better than Thunder with Gravity.
Basically, its 2 best sets are: Gravity Zap Cannon(which allows you to hit a little more harder since Zap Cannon acts like Thunder+Thunder Wave on one set) and the Toxic one(who lets you cripple walls that Porygon 2 hates).

If you want to spread some paralize, i would use the Gravity set. I would NEVER use Porygon 2 with Thunder Wave when i just have Gravity+Zap Cannon to work with.

I wouldn't be so sure. Even with Gravity, Zap Cannon's only 83.5% accurate. That means that you'll expect to miss once for every six times you use it. That miss could be costly, especially as you'll have had to use Gravity while your opponent probably goes to their Porygon2 counter, or maybe just attacks you.

 

[blasphemy1]

Just one thing: you can add Zap Cannon to the Gravity set, since it's just better than Thunder with Gravity.

Porygon 2 is used as a all-out counter to many threats. Blissey can wall Vaporeon/Jolteon/Heatran, but can't wall Gyarados/DD Salamence/CB Flygon for example. Or even Dugtrio/Magnezone who are both trapped thanks to Trace.

Porygon 2 does all that by itself. That's its usefulness. Sure, it won't do much against Scizor, Blissey, Lucario and the like, but it still a good poke for sure.

Basically, its 2 best sets are: Gravity Zap Cannon(which allows you to hit a little more harder since Zap Cannon acts like Thunder+Thunder Wave on one set) and the Toxic one(who lets you cripple walls that Porygon 2 hates).

If you want to spread some paralize, i would use the Gravity set. I would NEVER use Porygon 2 with Thunder Wave when i just have Gravity+Zap Cannon to work with.

There's some other niches for Porygon 2 too, like a Trick Specs set, or a Agility+Charge Beam set. But don't count on it.

Porygon2 can actually "counter" Blissey by switching into her, obtaining Natural Cure, then using toxic on her. She is then forced to switch, and you can switch out and remove Toxic if she used it on you.

Zap Cannon also only has 83% accuracy during Gravity, while Thunder has 100%. So Zap Cannon will paralyze more often, but it won't always hit.

edit: beaten

 

[Mr. Dodecahedron]

Just one thing: you can add Zap Cannon to the Gravity set, since it's just better than Thunder with Gravity.

Actually, they both have their merits. Zap Cannon has a 5/6 chance of hitting, and when it does it paralyzes, while Thunder has 100% accuracy, and a 3/10 chance of paralyzing. Also, Thunder has 16 PP, while Zap Cannon only has 8. So it depends on whether you want the much greater chance of paralysis, or the perfect accuracy and double PP.

 

[M BLADE]

Porygon has the defenses to take a hit or two if Zap Cannon miss. If it's Accuracy issues, so why would i use Fire Blast on fire pokes when there's Flamethrower?
Zap Cannon effect under Gravity outweights its accuracy. Just like Fire Blast power outweights the same accuracy problem.

Also it's one of the only 3 pokes that can effectively Zap Cannon: the others being Regice(Gravity) and Forretress(in a pinch to counter Gyarados). It's such a good move to pass...

If Porygon 2 switches in on Blissey using Toxic, i'll just use Toxic again to whatever switching in. Counter? Not at all. The only thing Porygon 2 can really do to blissey is tricking a item into it.


About Thunder: use Rain Dance. It lets Gyarados or, say, Jolteon hit harder. It gives Kingdra a good boost too.

To me the better use for both moves is:

Thunder: Rain Dance
Zap Cannon: Gravity

Since we're talking about a Gravity Porygon 2... you know what i prefer to use.

 

[cim]

Porygon2 is a niche utility Pokemon, and I don't really see what's changed. It can be used when you need a Gyarados or Salamence counter, does decently against Pokemon with counterproductive abilities like Heatran and stuff.

That's pretty much it though, and it's not really particularly useful outside of that role on a balanced team of "checking stuff". No resistances to bank on, average stats to go with its good movepool, no useful STAB for a defensive set (i.e. running Tri Attack isn't productive for anything). Really, Porygon2 is just an average Pokemon that can do a few things alright, but not at the same time.

Besides, the last big Porygon2 fan was skiddle. You don't want to be like skiddle, now do you? :)

 

[TEA_DEMON]

Porygon2 is made of awesome. My personal favourite set:

Porygon2 @Leftovers
Trace | Quiet | 252 HP/216 Def/48 SpA | 0 Spd
~ Trick Room
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunderbolt
~ Shadow Ball

No Recover, I know, but I've never really had any decency from it really. I preferred to go with Shadow Ball to fuck over those Rotom-As who tend to come in on Porygon2. Blissey does, of course, wall this set like the fat whore walls any special attacker, but that's why you pair it up with Machamp (Dark resist is a plus) so you can Sub while Blissey gets the hell out of there and then proceed to Bulk Up. It also has beautiful synergy with Dusknoir, who is a staple on Trick Room teams.

I haven't used Porygon2 outside of a Trick Room team as of yet, but it's such a good Gyarados counter and utility Pokemon in general most people could afford to use it on pretty much any team (except Hyper Offense I guess, but SpecsP2 could be fun).

 

[august]

The biggest problem with using Porygon2 is that it's one of the most stall weak pokemon ever. Blissey can sit there and wall it all day long, Forretress can easily set up Spikes / Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin and get healing support from Wish. That being said, Porygon2 is a pretty solid stop to some offensive teams, but I tend to stay away from pokemon that make my team incredibly lose momentum against stall, like Bronzong without Trick and Porygon2.

Also if any of the pokemon you mentioned above (Gliscor, Heatran being the most common) choose to run Toxic, Porygon2 becomes a very shaky counter. CB Flygon and CBMence both 2HKO too but I guess neither are very common.

 

[Purple Wobbuffet]

If it was such a good counter to listed Pokemon, I assume it would be on stall. It's not. It can do everything, but not with one set. If it walls Mence, it isn't as good at walling Tran. Vappy poisons it. I guess you could pair it up with Scizor to kill Tran for it, but that's about it.

 

[EvilMario]

The biggest problem with using Porygon2 is that it's one of the most stall weak pokemon ever. Blissey can sit there and wall it all day long, Forretress can easily set up Spikes / Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin and get healing support from Wish. That being said, Porygon2 is a pretty solid stop to some offensive teams, but I tend to stay away from pokemon that make my team incredibly lose momentum against stall, like Bronzong without Trick and Porygon2.

Also if any of the pokemon you mentioned above (Gliscor, Heatran being the most common) choose to run Toxic, Porygon2 becomes a very shaky counter. CB Flygon and CBMence both 2HKO too but I guess neither are very common.

On top of this, Porygon2 is almost always a free switch in for the likes of Scizor, and Sleep Talking Machamp regardless of the set. I personally hate anything that doesn't at least threaten Scizor.. because giving it free U-Turns just fules offensive teams. If anything, I would consider HP Fire for Scizor and to stop Forrty from coming in to setup Spikes/Spin at will. This would be much more useful to me than beating Heatran 1v1, especially if you can cripple sets that rely on speed with Thunder-Wave.

And speaking.. without Thunder-Wave, the list of offensive Pokemon that switch in increases ten fold, although Toxic is required to threaten things like Swampert.. so Porygon2 really has a case of 4 move slot syndrome.

 

[bulbasauresrec]

Yes Pory2 counters many of the threats blah blah blah but the reason i don't really find it useful is that after it has done its job, its left with so little health and wont find any time to recover its hp due to its lackluster speed and be left as a plain sitting duck, damaged even further by SR the next time it switches in if you decide to switch it out first, taken out by almost any neutral STAB attack.