ORAS OU The Night Circus ~ A Gengar HO Team

[Futatsuiwa of Sado]

The Night Circus

A team by Futatsuiwa of Sado

Introduction​

Welcome one and all, to another one of my RMT's~! For those of you who don't know me, I'm Sado, a rater in the RMT Room on PS, but occasionally I'll wander onto the forums if I get bored (like right now). After the success of my previous RMT, Pure Furies, Whereabouts of the Heart , I decided to try and build a team that was extremely different from the more bulky teams I'm used to building. This team was the spawn of such boredom, and I must say, I've had my share of whimsical fun times on the ladder with it. The extremely Hyper Offensive nature of the team usually means that battles are over in a jiffy, which is perfect considering how often I end up having to leave in the middle of a battle- I swear it's bad luck, like whenever I join a battle, someones at my door, someones calling me, my corgi vomits on the floor... You'll notice that this team is chock-full of mons that hit hard, and can sweep/clean. This allows me to apply massive amounts of pressure on the opponent's team by threatening a sweep at any time and forcing them to keep checks to the sweepers alive. Anyways enough of that, I suppose we should move onto the team. Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, attack helicopters and robots and everything in between. Grab your popcorn and cotton candy, take a seat! Allow me to present The Night Circus!

Edits will be made in Green.

Here's some muzics btw

Thought Process

Fun fact, Gengars the only mon that's been in OU for all 6 generations. I chose to start out with Gengar because of its phenomonal coverage, great wall breaking capabilities and its ability to terrorize both bulkier teams, as well as certain offensive mons due to its typing, speed tier and attacking prowess. It also acts as a spin blocker, which for offensive teams, can prove valuable as they generally want to keep hazards up to apply pressure to the opponents side of the field.

Originally, this was a Choice Scarf Keldeo instead of an Azumarill. I choose this because I wanted a way to stop common pursuit trappers that would trap Gengar and kill it, namely Weavile, Bisharp and Tyranitar. Furthermore, Keldeo helps out against some things that Gengar doesn't appreciate like Mega Gyarados, and Lopunny. In return, Gengar removes problematic Grasses and Fairies for Keldeo like Gardevoir, Celebi and Serperior.

I wanted a good sweeper that had the ability to terrorize opposing offensive teams, as well as check stuff like opposing Keldeo, Tornadus and Alakazam better, all of whom looked threatening to the team. I turned to Talonflame to fulfill this role. Talonflame's priority and power gives offensive teams really hard times if they don't have a way to stop the bird. It has proven valuable numerous times as it picks off weakened mons early game and sets up and sweeps once its checks are gone.

At this point, I noticed that opposing Talonflame were threatening to the team, and I lacked a good answer to certain Water-types like Manaphy. Mega Manectric gives me another powerful cleaner that can easily pick off and clean opposing teams, a way to gain momentum, and arguably the best counter/switch-in to Talonflame that hyper offense has. It also gave me a crucial way to absorb Thunder Waves from the like of Thundurus which was a rather annoying mon to deal with previously due to its ability to cripple stuff before going down.

I had completely forgotten about rocks, so I chose offensive Lando-T as my rock setter because of his great ability to wall break, gain momentum, act as death fodder (yayyy) and provides me with a check to things like Zard X. I decided to go with Landorus instead of say, Garchomp due to the synergy with Manectric via double intimidate VoltTurn and being able to force switches with its powerful EQ, which allows me to U-Turn and turn the match into my favor.

One of the more threatening mons to offense, Mega Manectric, was literally the worst thing to face ever since it just swept my team. Also, I was lacking hazard removal for Talonflame, which hurt especially against sash rockers since I didn't have a way to stop them outside of Gengar's Taunt (and they usually were able to just kill Gengar anyways like Azelf). Thus, I added Latios to provide Defog for Talonflame should the need arise, and check Manectric.

I made the switch from Keldeo to Azumarill because the Lati's were a tad annoying since nothing liked a Draco and I didn't have an easy way to kill them. This was actually originally a Choice Band Azu, but was changed to BD to give me a second win condition/sweeper.

A Look at the Team
Whoa Sado's actually using pics of the mons for once

Apollo Hoax Theory
"Kyahahahaha! Something real interesting is going on~! Hey, fairies! Let's crank up the speed! It's lunatic tiiiime! Welcome to a world of madness!"
アポロ捏造説 (Gengar) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Taunt
- Focus Blast​

Gengar is a great wall breaker in OU, especially with the introduction of the Fairy-type and nerf of the Steel-type. It gives Gengar a new niche in OU, being among one of the better offensive Fairy checks. It also has the ability to terrorize defensive teams with its more than amazing coverage hitting everything in the tier for at least neutral damage. Furthermore, its great speed tier and typing, tieing with the Latis, outspeeding Keldeo and Terrakion, allows it to threaten some of the slow mons on offensive teams. On this team, Gengar provides me my main stall/wall breaker and main Fairy killer, beating the likes of Chansey among other things with great utility in the form of Taunt. Life Orb is chosen to make use of its coverage and utility, while still boasting good power behind its attacks. EVs maximize its speed and special attack to aid in its wall breaking with its Atk IVs reduced to 0 to minimize Foul Play and confusion damage.

Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave are Gengars main STAB attacks, with Shadow Ball hitting many things for neutral damage, and Sludge Wave hitting threats like Mandibuzz and Rotom-W for solid neutral damage. Focus Blast is mandatory IMO, despite its awful accuracy, allowing it to threaten Dark-types, namely Tyranitar and Bisharp (50/50's are fun). It also gives it a really strong hit vs bulky mons like Heatran while providing perfect coverage when coupled with Sludge Wave and Shadow Ball. Taunt is chosen in the last slot over something like Icy Wind, Will-O-Wisp, or Destiny Bond in order to provide a big fuck you to stall as this enables it to stop recovery, making its stallbreaking job easier.

Supression, Super Ego
"She said you were psychologically unsettling, like a flea crawling up your back. If I beat you and take you back home, I'll definitely become the talk of the house!"
抑制, スーパーエゴ (Azumarill) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Knock Off​

It's amazing how often I can pull off an Azumarill sweep on this team, it's actually absurd, I don't understand it. Azu gives my team a phenomenal win con late game, especially after checks are removed. This team finds many opportunities to get Azu set-up, as well as remove threats like Grass-types, Electric-types and some Steel-types. Basically nothing wants to switch into a +6 Azumarill, and for good reason too, due to its strong coverage, priority and the fact that at +6, Azumarills attack stat sky rockets to an astounding 1700+. The EVs allow Azumarill to outspeed uninvested base 70s, most importantly, Clefable and Tyranitar, in order to hit them before they can hit you. The HP is required to be even in order to proc Azu's Sitrus Berry after a Belly Drum. Speaking of Sitrus Berry, it's basically required on BD Azu to get some health back after a Belly Drum which eases set up. Max Attack because nukes! Huge Power is for obvious reasons.... it's kinda why Azumarill is good in the first place, boosting its measly base 50 Atk all the way to 150- that's higher than Mega Lucario and Salamence to put that in perspective.

Aqua Jet is the primary STAB move for this set, giving it power priority that hits surprisingly hard for a base 40 power move. It gives Azu the ability to sweep even against offensive teams due to them generally lacking bulk. Belly Drum is how this set functions, providing it immediate offensive power which makes it extremely hard to switch into. Play Rough is its other STAB move, getting kills that Aqua Jet can't and terrorizes slower mons with its good 90 base power. Knock Off is used to hit things like Ferrothorn, and other things that neither Aqua Jet nor Play Rough can. It does OHKO Ferro after rocks btw, so thats fun.

Illusionary Dominance
"Well, there is a better way to settle their hearts. The least troublesome way is to defeat you and make you go back."
幻想風靡 (Talonflame) (F) @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost​

Fun fact, Talonflame has less attack than Amoonguss. Talonflame used to be one of my most despised Pokemon like ever. I've grown to leave the goddamned bird though, and it's one of the most valuable members of this team. Talonflame is a great cleaner/sweeper/revenge killer for this team, giving me a secondary answer to Fairies, removal of Grasses for Azumarill, strong priority to scare offense, and most importantly, one of the few ways this team can deal with Lopunny and Bisharp (fuck chess ;3;). Very standard Swords Dance set here. Max speed and max attack in order to maximize damage and speed, with an odd HP number to minimize Rocks damage. Adamant isn't used because this allows me to outspeed Raikou, and lets me speed tie opposing Talonflame (despite not being an issue for this team in the slightest). Gale Wings because... Gale Wings, duh. Priority Brave Bird, priority Recovery... Also, Flame Body is literally useless, especially on a sweeper. Sky Plate increases the spammable move itself, Brave Bird and is picked over Life Orb in order to give Talonflame a bit more longevity because when coupled with the recoil of Brave Bird and Flare Blitz, it wears down Talonflame very fast. Flare Blitz hits what its meant to hit hard enough anyways, so there's really no point. Sky Plate also gives Talonflame a plate upon it eats its food. My Pokemon must have good manners.

Brave Bird is Talonflames strongest STAB move and when coupled with Gale Wings, becomes a base 120 power priority move that gets STAB and is boosted by Sky Plate. It lets it beat Scarf mons, certain priority users like Azumarill, and in general just annoys the crap outta everyone. Flare Blitz is Talonflame's secondary STAB move giving it a way to hit Excadrill and Electrics, most notably Raikou and Magnezone. Swords Dance gives Talonflame extra damage, which lets it sweep offensive teams easier. It also helps it dent bulkier teams, letting it get over mons like Sableye, Clefable and Chansey with ease. Roost is the last move, and is very important for Talonflame. It allows it to basically negate Stealth Rock damage, should it be forced to switch in while they are up, and allows it to recovery any health lost from spamming Brave Birds and Flare Blitz'.

Second Drum, Vengeful Spirit Aya-no-Tsuzumi
"Come, my drummer from the outside world! Let your primal beat echo throughout Gensokyo!"
二鼓, 怨霊アヤノツヅミ (Manectric-Mega) (F) @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
​

Does anyone else actually like this design or is it just me? Anyways, Manectric's speed tier coupled with its good, albeit predictable coverage allows it to easily threaten offense, as well as being a good momentum grabber because of switches it forces combined with Volt Switch. Secondly, Intimidate allows it to take on threats that it otherwise wouldn't be able to like Talonflame, Metagross and Scizor. On this team, Manectric provides yet another late game cleaner, threat to offense, a SE hit vs waters, and most importantly, the best counter to Talonflame this team has. Without it, Talonflame would struggle much more. It's EVs are used to again, maximize speed and attacking prowess to hit hard while utilizing its godlike speed tier. The IVs give me HP Ice while minimizing Atk to take Foul Plays easier, despite them being rare af. I just like being nitpicky. Its pre-mega ability is Lightning Rod in order to give my team a reliable Electric immunity (I don't count Landorus as reliable due to BoltBeam) and can be used to give Manectric a boost to its Special Attack to make cleaning easier.

Thunderbolt is Manectrics main STAB, giving it a strong hit against lots of common mons. Volt Switch is a great more for Mega Manectric, allowing it to pivot out of match-ups it doesn't like, usually against defensive teams where Manectric tends to not be as useful, and ends up more as an intimidate/death fodder. Not saying its completely useless though, it just doesn't fair vs bulkier playstyles as well as offense. Fire coverage is needed in order to hit Steels as well as Grasses harder than HP Ice. For this team, I choose Overheat instead of Flamethrower due to its ability to guarantee OHKOs on the likes of MegaGross, Excadrill, and Ferrothorn. However, the Special Attack drop can lose me some momentum, but generally its beneficial to be able to OHKO the 3 mons I just mentioned. Finally, HP Ice gives Manetric the wonderful BoltBeam coverage, allowing it to hit Grounds and Dragons, namely Garchomp, Landorus-T and Gliscor to name a few.

Virtue of Wind God
"Were Gensokyo to completely lose its faith, surely it would be thrown into chaos? The faithless can never understand the meaning of faith."
風神様の神徳 (Landorus-Therian) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Smack Down
- Stealth Rock​

Landorus is the teams rocker, which is important to wear down checks to some of my sweepers like Rotom-W for Azu and Talonflame. I actually really enjoy Landorus on this team, hes a deceivingly hard hitter with max attack Earth Plate boosted Earthquakes that can 2HKO standard Ferrothorn. I generally end up leading with Landorus, unless my opponent has like a Weavile or something, which they usually try to lead against my Landorus when they note the likelihood of my leading it to get up rocks. I'm using an EV spread that not many people use. Because of this teams natural weakness to Bisharp, I chose this spread that allows Landorus to survive any hit from +1 Adamant Bisharp at full health. The normal spread of 72 HP / 252 ATK / 184 Spe didn't seem needed to me since this lets it outspeed Jolly Bish, Diggersby, Altaria, Dragonite and non-MegaGross- all of which I have answers for. I'm back to running to normal spread, courtesy of Leftiez in order to outspeed certain Kyu-B's and things like Jolly Bisharp. Yache Berry is chosen in order to make Electrics like Manectric and Raikou a lot easier to deal with, as a lot of them carry BoltBeam coverage. Yache allows me to surprise these Electrics by taking one electric attack and retaliating with a powerful STAB Earthquake, which does OHKO Mega Manectric even at -1. It also helps out against my teams weakness to Weavile by giving me a 4th mon that can kill it.
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 274-324 (97.5 - 115.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Earthquake is the best STAB attack Landorus has due to its power and ability to threaten defensive mons. U-Turn allows Landorus to pivot out and gain momentum due to the forced switches it makes with EQs. Its usually best to lead with Landorus set up Rocks and then U-Turn out. Stealth Rocks because Stealth Rocks. Finally, the last move I used was originally Stone Edge, but I found I wasn't using it often at all. I chose Smack Down to give me the ability to hit Rotom and Skarmory on the switch and KO with an EQ the next turn. This is especially important because Rotom-W is somewhat annoying, as it checks both of this teams sweepers and I usually have to lose momentum to kill it (Latios Draco Meteor).

Heaven Sign, Brilliance of Mahavairocana
"O, the world of dharma is filled with light. Are you the one who liberated this world?"
天符, 大日如来の輝き (Latios) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Defog
- Roost​

Latios is this teams best answer to Mega Manetric, which like I mentioned, is a huge threat to offense. It also gives you the ability to hit Dragons with its powerful Draco Meteor and check things like Manaphy with its typing. Latios also helps out by supporting Talonflame with Defog, although I rarely find myself using it due to me usually being able to keep rocks off my side of the field with pressure and taunt alone. Its also just another nuke in general, dealing insane amounts of damage with Draco Meteor and Psyshock. EVs are here to maximize speed and special attack. IVs minimize attack again, for Foul Play and confusion. I feel like I probably shouldn't explain that anymore, but oh well, long RMT's look nicer. 29 HP IVs give Latios a perfect Life Orb number which allows it to stay alive longer by minimizing the amount of damage it takes from Life Orb.

Draco Meteor is a great move on Latios dealing great damage and even OHKOing some mons that are neutral like Thundurus and Manectric. Psychic was picked over Psyshock because of its ability to hit certain bulky mons like Rotom-W, Gastrodon and Hippowdon, all of whom eat Dracos from Latios, so its nice to have a reliable STAB that can deal consistent damage repeatedly. Defog is here solely for the purpose of aiding Talonflame if the need arises. Like I said, I rarely use it but its handy to have. Roost is chosen in the last slow because I felt like I didn't really need a way to hit Heatran or Steels. I would personally prefer the ability to continually check Keldeo and Mega Man throughout the match, especially the latter.

​

Importable

アポロ捏造説 (Gengar) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Taunt
- Focus Blast

抑制, スーパーエゴ (Azumarill) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

幻想風靡 (Talonflame) (F) @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

二鼓, 怨霊アヤノツヅミ (Manectric-Mega) (F) @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]

風神様の神徳 (Landorus-Therian) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Smack Down
- Stealth Rock

天符, 大日如来の輝き (Latios) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Defog
- Roost

Let me know if you see any threats I missed :]
Threats

Bisharp is public enemy number 1. I usually end up dealing with it by Flare Blitzing it with Talonflame or killing it with full health Lando-T. Of course, it helps that it doesn't have recovery, but it still threatens a lot of my team and traps both Gengar and my defogger, which would allow it to beat Talonflame if rocks is up on myside.

This is more of an annoyance rather than a threat due to my team being able to overload it quite easily. It doesn't like taking many hits from this team whether its from Gengar, Latios, or Landorus. Smack Down Lando does help with this, but its still annoying as all hell.

Weavile is similar to Bisharp, but not as annoying because it gets beaten by Mega Man and Talonflame, as well as Azu. However, despite half my team eating Weavile alive, the other half gets eaten by Weavile, and if Manectric isn't Mega Evolved yet, it struggles to get rid of this.

Again, this thing isn't too annoying to deal with, but it does put a dent in my team. Landorus can kinda deal with it, but still doesn't appreciate an Iron Head to the face. Luckily, I have strong priority to kill it via Azumarill, but I usually don't like using Azumarill early game. I guess sometimes you just have to. *sigh*

/

Yet again, not impossible to deal with at all, but similarly to Excadrill, my best answer to this is Azumarill, which as I stated early, don't like using early game. Talonflame can wear it down, and I can always revenge kill it after a Draco as well.

Namely Sub+CM. If it gets a Sub up, its annoying to have to break the sub then kill it. My best bet is either Latios or strangely enough, Talonflame Flare Blitz.

Whenever this thing comes in, something dies. But really, when doesn't anything switch into this. Best bet is to outspeed/kill with Lando-T or Latios. Talonflame can also deal with weakened Kyu-B, which happens often due to LO recoil and SR damage.

/

/

/Similar Mons
These things are capable of taking hits from this team. Usually best dealt with by Psychic on Latios coupled with Roost to overpower them, but can be broken down with Gengar's Taunt+Attacking.

Conclusion​

I thank you all for sitting through this and reading it~! As usual, big collective shoutout to the RMT room as a whole, you guys are amazing. Fun place y'all should join if you haven't yet :] Regarding the team, I have reallllly enjoyed using it. It pulls of some really quick battles which is handy for me, and I love that about it. Its one of the few teams that I actually enjoy using multiple times in succession due to how different the team plays against different play styles. Its always fun seeing how many different ways I can sweep a team. Well, that's all I got for now, hope you guys enjoyed looking through it! Until next time~!<3

​

 

[Leftiez]

I was reading ez's rate and i guess we shouldn't forget that this team is a HO implying he's not gonna perfectly check everything (especially fast sweepers such as Manectric-Mega, Tornadus-T, Lopunny-Mega...), the main goal of this team is firstly pressuring opponents as much as possible so they do not have a single momentum which means adding Scarf Landorus-T won't help in this case as he's breaking momentum (giving free setup on locked choice), then Talonflame is a nice backup for Lopunny / Weavile / Bisharp (50/50) / Alakazam-Mega and its revenge killing's capacities are needed in this team so removing him is probably worse than anything.

In my opinion this team is solid as an offense and shouldn't replace any pokemon, but i can see some minor weaknesses that could be patched here.
First of all, I'm a bit surprised that you didn't mention Kyurem-B in your T-List, i mean it can potentially kill one pokemon everytime it gets in and that's not like he doesn't have time to come in with Manectric-Mega / Azumarill / Landorus-T being all weak, from another point it's not like you could replace something too but i would rather limit its switches in. I'd suggest a faster spread on Landorus-T, indeed having a faster Landorus-T will allow you to play around Kyurem-B as much as possible since you will be able to pivot between Landorus-T / Azumarill / Latios in order to kill him or you can just hit him with Landorus-T so he won't come in later as your team is relatively fast with some prios, plus this will also make your team safer against SpeDef Talonflame as it can burn Landorus-T and force you to rely on Manectric-Mega which isn't really great.

Por fin i would have used Psychic instead of Psyshock on Latios, you're struggling a little too much against grounds type such as Gastrodon and Hippowdon, they can easily get free switches and stall out as they force Latios into using Draco Meteor which doesn't even kill, while Psychic can still hard hit them without dropping yourself + you can get a drop.

Landorus-T

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Smack Down
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

I hope I helped and good luck with your team.

 

[Futatsuiwa of Sado]

Hey thank you both for dropping a rate here, much appreciated. Although, I do agree with Leftiez here, seeing that my team is HO, and I haven't noticed too much issue against Mega Man. Heatran especially, wouldn't seem like it would fit and I'd be losing the priorty that would help out vs some threats like Weav.

Also Leftiez, thanks for pointing Kyurem-B out as a threat, it completely skipped over my mind for some reason. I'll definitely be switching to the faster spread for Lando-T since I can manage Bisharp somewhat decently with Talonflame (Adamant isn't all that common anyways) and just wearing it down. I will also be making the switch of Psychic instead of Psyshock on Latios for the Grounds like you mentioned. It would also make me not have to lose momentum against the likes of Rotom-W since I can nail it with a Psychic instead of a Draco now.

Now I must edit my thread, and again, thanks to you both!

 

[Martin]

I'm not gonna do a big rate, but I definitely recommend running Yache Berry over Earth Plate on Lando-T. It massively helps to be able to pivot into a Volt Switch or Thunderbolt and then take a hit, stopping MMan etc. taking a dump on you and alleviating the pressure that's put onto Latios to take it on, and the lack of Choice Scarf means that you don't need to drop Stealth Rock on it while also just generally fitting the build much better due to having more than enough speed and priority already--making the lack of a lock-in greatly appreciated.

 

[Futatsuiwa of Sado]

I'm not gonna do a big rate, but I definitely recommend running Yache Berry over Earth Plate on Lando-T. It massively helps to be able to pivot into a Volt Switch or Thunderbolt and then take a hit, stopping MMan etc. taking a dump on you and alleviating the pressure that's put onto Latios to take it on, and the lack of Choice Scarf means that you don't need to drop Stealth Rock on it while also just generally fitting the build much better due to having more than enough speed and priority already--making the lack of a lock-in greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the rate Martin.! I was actually considering using Yache or Sash instead of Earth Plate myself, but was kinda reluctant to replace it, but seeing the points made by you and ez, I think Yache would be beneficial here, allowing Latios to take it on easier.

 

[Martin]

Hey,

Belly Drum Azumarill... hm. It's pretty well "countered" these days. It is a good Late Game Sweeper, but i'm not really sure if thats the best Set for your Team. Did you try Choice Band as well? It may work better. And i would totally change Roost to HP Fire/Fighting on Latios. Roost may be good against a few Pokemon, but it's just not a very good move in general on Latios in my opinion. With HP Fire, you could hit Ferrothorn and Scizor pretty hard, while you can hit Hetran relatively hard and 1HKO Bisharp with HP Fighting, which could switch into the Draco and knock out Latios with Pursuit, same with Tyranitar. HP Fighting would do around 65% to 252 HP Tyranitar in Sandstorm and would 100% 1HKO without the Sandstorm.

Good luck!

A few things about this rate kinda bother me, so I feel obligated to reply.

First and foremost, Belly Drum is in no way a bad set. Especially given the context of the team as his only real wincon is Talonflame (which suffers from its fair share of flaws, namely its inability to break ScarfTar--who gives this team a headache by trapping both Latios and Gengar while not taking much from Manectric's attacks) and given the fact that the team is very, very offensive--making locks undesirable due to being big momentum saps--means that Belly Drum Azumarill provides a lot of utility for its ability to not only act as a secondary wincon, but also for how it retains momentum in a way that Choice Band doesn't and due to the fact that offense completely adores stacking setup 'mons for their ability to just overwhelm stuff.

Secondly, I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment of Roost being a bad option on Latios. If anything, I'd argue that Roost is its best option in the current metagame when looking at it in general terms, and given the build of the team it really comes in handy for its ability to help in the matchup versus Bisharp to an extent, who currently gives the team a lot of trouble and is forced into a 50:50 between Knock Off/Pursuit and Sucker Punch by Roost. In addition, Life Orb really takes its toll on Latios--reducing its ability to check things and limiting the number of turns that it can keep playing. It appreciates the ability to repeatedly check stuff--especially given that the team struggles with Elecric-types--making the ability to heal up and check them again all the more valuable for the build.

Looking at your rate, you seem to be using an overarching generalisation of what is "the best option" without considering the specifics of the options on the build. While this will sometimes work, when considered in the context of a heavily offensive team such as this one it simply isn't a viable option when rating. I suggest reading rates from players with the Team Rater badge to see how they go about rating teams and using them to improve your own rates, and don't feel at all discouraged. Everyone starts out rocky and works their way up, so don't give up. Best of luck for your future on the site, and welcome to Smogon :]

 

[FlamingVictini]

Hey there,

This is going to be a pretty quick rate.First i'd like to say that Leftiez and Martin. pretty much said everything I wanted to comment about this team (I have been watching it since you posted it and reading and thinking, but never bothered to post anything until now). I like the idea behind this squad as a simple HO that utilizes forgotten threats in gengar and also SD offensive talon, which isn't seen much nowadays.

Your squad actually reminds me of the recent team that was used in the last round in the rating league, which was a very old offensive team that I had built with some similar concepts. Interestingly enough when I was thinking about modernizing the team, in a variant that removed the original diancie on that squad with manectric, I ended up creating a team nearly identical to this one, although it had a bisharp in place of gengar since I wanted to maintain my idea of offensive overload and support of sweepers (mainly with bish and talon). Your team follows a similar idea in gengar breaking for azu and also attracting set-up bait like a pursuit-locked ttar or weavile, which I like a lot. Following the idea of offensive overload, I thought an interesting suggestion would be to follow an idea of my old team; explosion lando (sash or non sash, whatever you prefer) and scarf latios. The idea here is that lando gets up rocks quickly and can boom to cripple things for the rest of the team or open up a hole to sweep (such as exploding on venu or rotom, for example). Scarf latios becomes more important now since it provides some necessary support in revenging stuff (you won't have lando to defensively take things on if you boom early), and can also help in the set-up game by tricking mons and locking them into moves that ease set-up (tricking bulky ground types is also fun).

This change does create new problems mostly in terms of how consistent these changes would be, especially regarding the latios, and I may be trying to live too long in the old days where this combination on a similar team could decimate a large majority of the squads I faced at that time. A more conventional suggestion would be to adjust your lando spread to be a little more bulky, since you rely on it so much to beat things defensively (lop, exca, zard-x if you want to preserve azu, etc.). A spread of EVs: 128 HP / 136 Atk / 60 Def / 184 Spe allows you to tank a neutral blitz from jolly zard-x after stealth rocks, and in general busts up your bulk a good amount, while maintaining a lot of attack to keep up insane offensive presence. While it will be weaker than the 252 atk spread which I figure you like for its damage output, the extra bulk can definitely come in handy and lando will still have a ton of attack to dish out some pain. If you're willing to go full-on defensive with lando, I can see toxic (putting those pesky bulky grounds on a timer can be great) and/or knock off being useful additions to support your team.

Hope this was helpful and I really like your team, good work man. :)

 

[Futatsuiwa of Sado]

Hey there,

This is going to be a pretty quick rate.First i'd like to say that Leftiez and Martin. pretty much said everything I wanted to comment about this team (I have been watching it since you posted it and reading and thinking, but never bothered to post anything until now). I like the idea behind this squad as a simple HO that utilizes forgotten threats in gengar and also SD offensive talon, which isn't seen much nowadays.

Your squad actually reminds me of the recent team that was used in the last round in the rating league, which was a very old offensive team that I had built with some similar concepts. Interestingly enough when I was thinking about modernizing the team, in a variant that removed the original diancie on that squad with manectric, I ended up creating a team nearly identical to this one, although it had a bisharp in place of gengar since I wanted to maintain my idea of offensive overload and support of sweepers (mainly with bish and talon). Your team follows a similar idea in gengar breaking for azu and also attracting set-up bait like a pursuit-locked ttar or weavile, which I like a lot. Following the idea of offensive overload, I thought an interesting suggestion would be to follow an idea of my old team; explosion lando (sash or non sash, whatever you prefer) and scarf latios. The idea here is that lando gets up rocks quickly and can boom to cripple things for the rest of the team or open up a hole to sweep (such as exploding on venu or rotom, for example). Scarf latios becomes more important now since it provides some necessary support in revenging stuff (you won't have lando to defensively take things on if you boom early), and can also help in the set-up game by tricking mons and locking them into moves that ease set-up (tricking bulky ground types is also fun).

This change does create new problems mostly in terms of how consistent these changes would be, especially regarding the latios, and I may be trying to live too long in the old days where this combination on a similar team could decimate a large majority of the squads I faced at that time. A more conventional suggestion would be to adjust your lando spread to be a little more bulky, since you rely on it so much to beat things defensively (lop, exca, zard-x if you want to preserve azu, etc.). A spread of EVs: 128 HP / 136 Atk / 60 Def / 184 Spe allows you to tank a neutral blitz from jolly zard-x after stealth rocks, and in general busts up your bulk a good amount, while maintaining a lot of attack to keep up insane offensive presence. While it will be weaker than the 252 atk spread which I figure you like for its damage output, the extra bulk can definitely come in handy and lando will still have a ton of attack to dish out some pain. If you're willing to go full-on defensive with lando, I can see toxic (putting those pesky bulky grounds on a timer can be great) and/or knock off being useful additions to support your team.

Hope this was helpful and I really like your team, good work man. :)

Oh wow cool I didn't know that lol. Mind linking me the thread? Sounds interesting. I don't really like the idea of Scarf Latios on this team due to the fact that, like you mentioned, it would create consistency issues especially with momentum. I'll try out the Lando-T spread, it seems interesting. I'll update this post after I test to see if I do go along with it or not. Thanks for the rate FV~!

Hey,

Belly Drum Azumarill... hm. It's pretty well "countered" these days. It is a good Late Game Sweeper, but i'm not really sure if thats the best Set for your Team. Did you try Choice Band as well? It may work better. And i would totally change Roost to HP Fire/Fighting on Latios. Roost may be good against a few Pokemon, but it's just not a very good move in general on Latios in my opinion. With HP Fire, you could hit Ferrothorn and Scizor pretty hard, while you can hit Hetran relatively hard and 1HKO Bisharp with HP Fighting, which could switch into the Draco and knock out Latios with Pursuit, same with Tyranitar. HP Fighting would do around 65% to 252 HP Tyranitar in Sandstorm and would 100% 1HKO without the Sandstorm.

Good luck!

Hello there, thanks for the rate!
I actually did originally have CB Azu instead of BD (it was also changed to Watmel Natural Gift for a short period for things like Quag and Gastro) but I found BD to be much more useful to me to act as a 2nd win con due to Talonflames inherit ability to weaken itself from recoil, and thus be put into the situation where it has to kill itself because it can't roost vs something like a Latios. And again, as Martin. mentioned, CB Azu was forfeiting a lot of momentum to the opponent and Watmel was just too weak and too, well how do I phrase this... I guess it was too much dead weight in some match ups, despite it helping me deal with those annoying Gastros. Also, I feel like Roost is definitely the superior on option on Latios on this team due to it being my main Mega Man check. Roost allows Latios to stay healthy in order to check Mega Man longer, since it threatens both of my main win cons, and is in general a threat to HO. Either way, thanks again for the rate!