Other The OU Role Comparison Project V2

[heritage]

The OU Role Comparison Project V2
Someone make a banner please and thank you
Approved by Aragorn the King
OP shamelessly stolen and taken over from Mowtom

Have you ever pinpointed a Pokémon on one of your teams, where you find it's role to be extremely useful for your team, but wonder "man, if only there was a similar Pokémon that had more manageable flaws for my team"? If so, this is the thread for you! Believe it or not, there tend to be a lot more Pokémon that can achieve a certain role than you think, but often times, these Pokémon are obscure, or they may be common Pokémon using an unusual set, so the people who are looking for such a "role replacement" may end up never finding it!

This thread aims to fix that problem! The main goal of this thread is to highlight certain underrated Pokémon sets, by comparing them to more common Pokémon who fulfill similar roles, both the advantages and the disadvantages! This way, people who feel like their team could use with some changes can get some tips from this thread, or if they are just making a team with certain roles in mind, they can be exposed to some Pokémon that deserve more usage! Also, don't worry if you can't think of any good examples, commenting on examples already mentioned to incite discussion is fine too!

Here's an example to get you guys started. Feel free to use the same format, since it gets right to the point, but if you feel the need to deviate a bit, that's fine too!

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Credit to good user Valmanway for this description with a little editing from me

Excadrill vs. Starmie as an offensive Rapid Spinner

Excadrill @ Air Balloon / Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Pros: -Base 135 attack easily dwarfs Starmie's base 100 special attack
-Excadrill has a natural Thunder Wave and Toxic immunity
-Mold Breaker gets past Levitators such as Rotom-W and Gengar
-Has more bulk to take hits
-Can muscle his way past defensive and bulky teams
-Great at revenge killing with Choice Scarf

Cons: -Base 88 speed isn't enough to sweep teams unless they're defensive or you have a Choice Scarf
-Is dramatically effected by Burn
-Weak to common Water-, Fire-, Ground-, and Fighting-type moves
-Can't scare out or take out faster threats before they take him out, such as Latios, Terrakion, Keldeo, Garchomp, and Landorus

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic / Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Thunderbolt / Recover
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock / Rapid Spin

Pros: -Base 115 speed lets it sweep more consistently than Excadrill
-Has Natural Cure to rid itself of status conditions
-Has Analytic to hit harder when an opponent switches
-Has Recover to heal itself if it forces a switch

Cons: -Psychic is a bad defensive typing, leaving it with crippling Dark and Ghost weaknesses
-Lacks raw power to muscle its way past bulky teams
-Bad defenses means faster, hard hitting threats can scare Starmie out
-Can't guarantee 2HKOs many of the bulky top tier threats, specially defensive Tyranitar, Mega Scizor without HP Fire, Mega Venusaur, Rotom-W, and Chansey

Comparing The Two: Excadrill has dethroned Starmie as the highest ranking offensive spinner, but that doesn't mean Starmie is exactly inferior in that role. There are a few definable differences between Excadrill and Starmie. For one, their stats are radically different; Excadrill has stats geared towards taking a hit or two while throwing mighty physical blows, while Starmie's stats represent revenge killing prowess with high speed and passable special attack. Another difference is their movepool; Excadrill can use Earthquake, Iron Head, and Rock Slide, taking on Steel-, Electric-, Fairy-, and Bug-types more effectively, while Starmie has Hydro Pump, Psyshock, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam to take care of Ground-, Fighting-, Grass-, Dragon, and opposing Water-types. A third difference is their typing, so while Excadrill has many more resistances, including Fairy and Rock resistances, Starmie has key resistances to Fire-, Water-, Ice-, and Fighting-type moves.

 

[heritage]

Archive:

Jirachi vs Bronzong as dragon, fairy cheeks and Stealth Rock setters

Mega Charizard X vs. Mega Altaria vs. Mega Gyarados as offensive Dragon Dancers

Hippowdon VS Tyranitar as bulky sand + Stealth rock setters

Reuniclus VS Clefable as bulky CM+MG users

Sceptile VS Serperior offensive Grass-type Pokemon

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

So, just so I don't post something than look like an idiot like I probably am rn this thread is where we post the better option?

 

[Teeny Victory]

So, just so I don't post something than look like an idiot like I probably am rn this thread is where we post the better option?

No, this thread is where you compare two pokemon with similar roles, (like when two Mons compete for a teamslot) not like the "don't use that use this thread" where you compare a pokemon to a pokemon it outclasses completely at that specific role. I think that's the thread you are looking for
(I have a post planned for after school tomorrow, will write up then)

 

[GeeMick]

Jirachi vs Bronzong as dragon, fairy cheks and Stealth Rock setters

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Toxic / U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe or 7 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Skill Swap*

*run 7 speed IVs instead of 0 to move before Mega Sableye if you choose to go the Skill Swap route.

Jirachi and Bronzong, while having the same typing, have some important differences. While Jirachi is speedier and has the ever so annoying Toxic and flinching combination,or even U-turn, it is grounded, which leaves it vulnerable to DD 2 attacks Altaria, Excadrill, Garchomp, Diggersby Earth Power M-Diancie and the likes. Bronzong is more passive than Jirachi, especially against pokemon like Ferrothorn which can stack hazards like no tomorrow, where Jirachi can threaten it with Fire Punch. However, Bronzong does have the advantage of being able to catch Heatran with a well-timed Earthquake, even though you shouldn't really stay in on it unless it is needed.

 

[En Passant]

Just a small criticism, but the example comparison mentions Deoxys-D and Aegislash, who have both been banned for quite some time now.

 

[SketchUp]

Mega Charizard X vs. Mega Altaria vs. Mega Gyarados as offensive Dragon Dancers
There are other good dragon dancers in the tier, such as Dragonite and Usual Gyarados but I am comparing these 3 because these 3 are arguably the best Dragon Dancers.

Important Notes:
To make a fair comparision, I took an Jolly nature on all dragon dancers. Mega Altaia prefers an Adamant nature, and in some cases Charizard prefers that too, but by giving Charizard a jolly nature, gyarados an adamant nature and altaria an adamant nature, the comparision will not be totally fair. I did also not consider any other sets (Mixed Mega Altaria, Sub Mega Gyarados and Earthquake Charizard) because it makes the comparision pretty difficult

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 96 HP / 220 Atk / 8 SpD / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 64 HP / 192 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake / Heal Bell
- Roost

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Taunt / Earthquake

Bulk
All three Dragon Dancers are known for their good bulk. Mega Gyarados stands on top with 95 / 109 / 130 bulk, but its typing is the worst of the three and the lack of recovery makes it very hard to stay healthy versus offensive pressure, hazard control and status. Taunt fixes the problem by stopping status and leech seed. It can stop will o wisp users because of Mold Breaker Taunt, but it is still burnable by Scald.
Mega Altaria's bulk is a little bit lower, but with 75 / 110 / 110 defenses far from bad. The typing of Mega Altaria makes it very hard to revenge kill, as it gives it resistances to common types as fighting, water and fire, while also having an immunity to dragon type attacks. Mega Altaria can't prevent burns, but it can heal it off with Heal Bell. However, this costs coverage and leaves it walled by common pokemon like Heatran and Ferrothorn.
Mega Charizard X has the fewest bulk of the dragon dancers, but with 78 / 111 / 85 still able to take many hits. Its typing is pretty good, as it provides resistances to fire, electric and steel and only three weaknesses in dragon, rock and ground. Charizard-X has an awesome niche over other dragon dancers being an immunity to burns. However, pre-mega it is 4x weak to stealth rock, so it takes 25% more damage than the other dragon dancers and even after mega evolving, it takes 12.5% more than Altaria and Gyarados.

Power and Coverage
Mega Gyarados coverage in Waterfall + Crunch is very good, only being resisted by Chesnaught, Azumarill, Hydreigon, Breloom and Chesnaught. As comparision we take a Mew with 0 HP and 0 Defense EVs and calculate a +0 move. Gyarados hits the Mew for 44% - 52% of its health.
Mega Altaria's Earthquake + Return is only resisted by Skarmory, Charizard Y and Talonflame. The return of Mega Altaria hits 54% - 64%, which is much higher than the Waterfall of Gyarados.
Mega Charizard-X' coverage is only resisted by Mega Altaria, Azumarill, Heatran and Diancie, who all don't like a Flare Blitz because of the insane power. A +0 Flare Blitz hits 75% - 88%, which is more than 1,5x as much as Gyarados' Waterfall. However, Flare Blitz has a recoil rate of 33%, which means it needs to roost more often to stay healthy

Matchup
What is this pokemon's matchup versus offense, balance and stall?
Mega Gyarados can really give stall a difficult time because of Mold Breaker Taunt, which bypasses Sableye's Magic Bounce, meaning it can't burn Mega Gyarados. If the stall team lacks a Chesnaught, it needs to play around Mega Gyarados with pokemon like Skarmory and Mega Venusaur. Mold breaker also bypasses Unaware, which let Gyarados beat Clefable and Quagsire, which is a giant niche it has in a stall matchup. Versus offensive teams, Gyarados' coverage gives pokemon like Keldeo, Azumarill and Mega Altaria a switchin and let them spam their supereffective STAB move. When these pokemon are gone, Gyarados can smack through the opposing team pretty easily with +1 Waterfalls and Crunches. A +1 Crunch 2HKO's Ferrothorn and Rotom-W, which both can be taunted to prevent a burn.
Mega Altaria's matchup versus stall is probably the worst of the 3 dragon dancers, as it is easily beaten by Skarmory, Quagsire and Bulk Up Talonflame. Against balance, Mega Altaria's good typing + power make it very easy to set up. However, pokemon like Ferrothorn and Talonflame gives it trouble, and because of respectively Leech Seed and Roost, they are not very easy to wear down, especially because Mega Altaria lacks Taunt to prevent them recovering.
Charizard-X as an amazing matchup versus offense, as a +1 Charizard-X is very hard to outspeed and at +1 it OHKOs nearly everything balance has to offer. Only Azumarill, some scarfers, Heatran and Mega Diancie win a 1v1 situations against Charizard-X. All of these pokemon lack recovery, so they can't switch into Char-X all the time, but they can prevent a sweep most of the time. Versus stall, the matchup is pretty good, but pokemon like Slowbro, Hippowdon and Quagsire give Charizard a difficult time sweeping. With some support (hazards) these pokemon can be 2HKOd on the switch.

Matchup versus Offense
1. Mega Charizard X
2. Mega Altaria
3. Mega Gyarados

Matchup versus Stall
1. Mega Gyarados
2. Mega Charizard X
3. Mega Altaria

 

[Teeny Victory]

Hippowdon VS Tyranitar as bulky sand + Stealth rock setters

Note: I'm not particularly sure on TTars EV spread, I just stole the one from the analysis but it seems kinda... bad and I think people usually use more offensive spreads, but for the sake of a fair comparison I'll leave it how it is.


Hippowdon @ Leftovers / Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge / Toxic / Whirlwind / Ice Fang

Pros
+ Fantastic mixed bulk, especially on the physical side
+ Reliable recovery allows it to take hits repetitively
+ Great typing that leaves it with only 3 weaknesses, 2 of which are rare types in the OU metagame (grass and ice)
+ Electric immunity along with decent special bulk gives it the ability to stop every electric type from volt-switching except Rotom-Wash
+ Stealth Rock Resistance makes it much harder to wear down
+ Doesn't stack as many weaknesses with Excadrill as Tyranitar does

Cons
- Lackluster offensive presence
- Very Vulnerable to top special attackers such as Keldeo, Lando-I and lati@s
- Has a degree of 4MSS, as it needs all its first three moves and wants all 4 of the last ones
- Loses to a range of 'Mons based on last slot
- Big status/Taunt bait
- Very one-Dimensional


Tyranitar @ Smooth rock / Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Ice Beam / Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Fire Blast

Pros
+ Fantastic mixed bulk
+ Sand gives it a 50% special defence boost thanks to its secondary rock type
+ Fantastic attack stat of 134, as well as a half-decent special attack stat of 95 to make use of its great special movepool
+ Massive Move pool gives it plenty of options, and makes it a great lure to excadrill's checks
+ Lots of resistances thanks to its typing, with 7 in total including an immunity
+ Unpredictable due to the wide range of sets it can run.

Cons
- Stacks allot of weaknesses with excadrill, with water, ground and fighting weaknesses being shared, all of which are common attacking types
- Massive bait to allot of threats thanks to its bad STAB coverage and weak lure moves, such as fighting types, water types, ground types and fairy types
- Very easy to wear down thanks to the pressure put on it to take multiple hits
- Lack of recovery makes it much less durable
- Typing also leaves it with 7 weaknesses to common types such as Fighting, ground and fairy
- Massive status bait
- Vulnerable to lure moves with its plethora of weaknesses, not helped by its *4 fighting weakness.

Comparing the two
Though TTar and Hippo play very similar roles in theory, in practise they work much differently. Hippo functions as a sponge to most physical and electric type attacks, using its impressive bulk to constantly set stealth rocks and fire off earthquakes, as well as dropping the occasional toxic. TTar, on the other hand, aims to come in using its plethora of resistances and amazing mixed bulk to threaten defoggers and set down stealth rocks, as well as luring in 'Mons like Lando-T and ferrothorn with fire blast and ice beam respectively for excadrill. They also appear on relatively different play-styles. Hippo usually sees more use on balance and defensively orientated teams thanks to its more defensive traits, and is such a good Mon on its own that it isn't required to be run alongside Excadrill. TTar on the other hand is usually used on offensive and Bulk-Offence teams thanks to its great offensive capabilities, and is basically required to be run alongside Excadrill, as this is the entire reason to use support TTar. Overall they are very similar but different 'Mons, and hippo seems to have the edge over TTar in this particular meta-game, as Tyranitar is usually used for its choice scarf set these days.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Dead thread...
Will do Reuniclus and Clefable as bulky CM users.

Reuniclus VS Clefable as bulky CM+MG users

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Recover

PROS:

• Bulkier than Clefable
• Has more power right off the bat
• Ability to beat things Clefable struggle with such as Heatran, Empoleon, Talonflame, Mega Venusaur
• Access to Calm Mind let's it boost its offenses.
• Better vs Stall archetypes because of its aforementioned ability to beat common stall mons (bar Sableye if not running Shadow Ball)
• Reliable recovery in Recover
• Immune to passive damage including status, weather and hazards

CONS:

• Weak to Pursuit and Knock Off, making it a sitting duck for Dark types
• Hard walled by Psychic types and Sableye if not running Shadow Ball; if running Shadow Ball is hard walled by Dark- and some Steel-types.
• Taunt bait
• Agonisingly slow
• Small movepool, 4MSS since it wants CM, Psyshock, FB, SBall and Recover all at once
• Pretty weak without a boost
• Popularity of VoltTurn

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled

PROS:

• Stellar typing let's it check many threats such as Mega Lopunny, Manectric, Sableye, Keldeo
• Decent defenses
• Magic Guard renders it immune to residual damage
• Calm Mind let's it boost its offensive and defensive stats
• Reliable recovery in Softboiled
• Large movepool
• Immune to passive damage including status, weather and hazard
• Ability to beat Dark types, which Reuniclus struggles with

CONS:

• Weak without any boosts
• Hard walled by quite a few Pokemon; if running the above spread all Fire types such as Charizard Y, Talonflame and Heatran check it
• Taunt bait
• Prevalence of Metagross and rise of offensive steel types in general

Comparing the two:

These two play a little of a similar role: bulky Calm Mind + Magic Guard users.
However, Reuniclus is a little outclassed by Clefable, sadly, who has better typing and is resistant to what is arguably the best move in the meta right now: Knock Off. However, Reuniclus does have a few things over Clefable, including the ability to beat a few Pokemon Clefable struggles with, namely Mega Venusaur, Heatran, Talonflame, Empoleon, Chansey etc. as well as having better bulk and power in general, not to mention Reuniclus' better matchup against Stall in general.

 

[Celticpride]

Reviving this with Recreant's permission:

Serperior vs Mega Sceptile as offensive Grass types

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire

Pros:

• Faster than Serperior, outspeeds most of the metagame
• Completely stops Volt Switch as opposed to just resisting it, therefore stopping momentum
• Wider coverage, doesn't have to choose between Hidden Power types and can handle most common switch-ins with the appropriate coverage moves
• More power on the first turn, more helpful in some situations where you need a KO
• Potential to go mixed due to a decent Attack stat and options in Earthquake and Rock Slide

Cons:

• Uses the Mega Slot
• Can't hold an item
• Added Fairy and Dragon weaknesses, and not a whole lot of benefit from the Dragon typing defensively as resists overlap with Grass
• No way of consistantly boosting its power, can't spam Leaf Storm as freely as Serp can

Serperior @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse / Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire
- Glare / Taunt / Knock Off

Pros:

• Better long term attacking due to reliable boosting ability
• Good support options to help out other attackers in Glare and Knock Off, can take the role of a supporter
• Can hold either Leftovers for more sustainability, or Life Orb to try and even out the power difference
• Bulky Fairies like Clefable are less of an issue for Serp as it is not weak to their STAB and can overpower them
• Does not use the all important Mega Slot

Cons:

• Weaker overall coverage, has to rely on Hidden Power and has to accept being walled by something common (usually Ferro, Talon or Tran)
• Slower to get going initially, checks can often take one unboosted Leaf Storm rather easily, especially important if the checks outspeed Serp
• Slower than Sceptile. Still fast comparative to the whole metagame, but there are a few targets between 113 speed and 145 speed that you want to outspeed

Comparing the two:
Relatively similar as far as being some of the few offensive Grass types in the tier, Sceptile is generally the better choice due to better coverage, higher base speed, and immediate power. It also cannot be crippled by Thunder Wave. However, Serp does not use the Mega slot, can use items and utility moves better, and can be a more threatening sweeper if it gets a Leaf Storm or two off. Overall the choice probably comes down to if you are using the Mega slot already, and if you need a more short term terror or long term sweeper.

 

[AM]

Celticpride is taking this over with Recreants permission. Locking.