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The return of Goth !

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Sweet Jesus, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    509
    I lost the count of my RMTs, but just as every other RMT I've made, it's pretty different from the standard teams that usually reach the top ladder positions. I haven't reached higher than #3 with this team because I kept getting haxed every time I reached 1850 and got tired of laddering with it. (alt was: kill it with fire)

    The thread's name says a it all, this team was built around gothitorita, gothitelle's little sister that has a pretty small niche and completely sucks against offensive teams in the current metagame. I wanted to create a set that could meet a certain success against a wide variety of playstyles including offense. At first I tried out a weird future sight set, which was a complete failure because I wasn't aware of all the new gen 5 mechanics of the move. I still played around with it and while it does sometimes make games incredibly long, I think I succeeded in my quest to make a goth set that does more than just kill alomomooonguss.

    Teambuilding:
    Show Hide


    So I first started with my weird gothorita set that acts like a special wall unlike the standard physically bulky restalk set.
    [​IMG]
    I decided to make it part of a defensive core and choose alomomola as a physical wall for it's great team healing capacities and the fact amoonguss, it's most common switch-in is trapped and killed by goth (even if it can take some time when they run clear smog).
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Now, just like every time I start a team with a defensive core, I identified it's flaws and patched it up with offensive pokes. The first main weakness I found was volt switch (u-turn isn't that bad, check goth's description). I chose pilowswine since he can set up stealth rock, counter a good quantity of volt switchers and has a great dualstab.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Set up sweepers and sub seeders were other big threat that came to my mind. Sash kadabra has always been a reliable way to deal with most of those, since it's immune to leech seed, encores seeders and bulky set up sweepers and uses it's sash to hit fast sweepers hard (even you linoone). I didn't feel too weak to pursuit since both my psychic types have a way around the pursuit users and will often trick them.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I still had a major eelektross and adamant cb sawk weakness and since ludicolo and special samurott were also threats I felt very concerned about, I chose a special custom cloud nine dracohaze altaria set that outspeeds adamant sawk and also helps against set up sweepers and any type of weather team really.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Just like every team I make, for some mystic reason, I was weak to subCM serperior (free contrary and gtfo of NU). I also thought kadabra was sometimes a risky switch to seeders and since piloswine has no recovery, my team becomes terribly weak to electirc once it's dead. I also needed a fast poke and a hard hitter because altaria and piloswine just aren't powerful enough to hit some very bulky stuff. While it may seem nothing fits all these requirements, I found physical cb sap sipper zebstriaka did the job pretty well.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    On with the team.

    [​IMG]
    Gothorita (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Reflect

    Here it is, my unique gothorita set. As I've already said in another thread, psychic types are usually used as physical walls because of their fighting resistance and weakness to pursuit, but psychic is a great specially defensive type in NU since ghost and dark special attacks are rare and pretty weak while bug buzz is only found on weak stuff that quiver dances.
    Now why use a CM set with special defence you may be wondering. Great special defence and access to calm mind actually lets gothorita come in on some threatening special attackers and set up calm mind while resting when needed (unlike physically defensive that only sets up on weak stuff) (goth can still set up on waterfall alomomola). Since after setting up gothorita is still slow as fuck and easily revenge killed by one of the many NU wallbreakers, I put reflect instead of a second coverage move. Setting up reflect before killing it's trapped prey helps gothorita either by giving it a second kill (sometimes even a sweep) if my opponent doesn't run any dark type pokes. If he does, goth will survive the pursuit and will have set up a screen to help out the team (also helps survive u-turn).

    [​IMG]

    Alomomola (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Toxic
    - Waterfall
    - Wish
    - Protect

    This is a pretty boring set everybody knows, standard alomomola takes on physical assaults like nothing else, has great stalling capacities thanks to toxic and wish protect and can also heal the team with that same combination. It's become even more painful to face now that it has regenerator and can heal itself while healing your team.

    [​IMG]

    Piloswine (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Spear
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock

    Another pretty standard set, piloswine is a great stealth rock lead and can take down many other leads. He also has one of the best offensive dual stabs in the game (if not the best) and can break the subs people tend to set up on alomomola with ice shard while still being a very bulky thing. Piloswine also walls and kills muk that try’s to set up alomomola and can shadow sneak kadabra once it's sash is broken. He also sets up rocks and has the only form of priority in my team. 16 speed EV's are used to speed creep base 50's because it's such an important speed mark to outspeed in NU.

    [​IMG]

    Kadabra (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Encore


    Yes, again ! This guy seems to come back in every single RMT I make but it's just too good. My defensive core is very solid and when it comes to walling and stalling I usually beat my opponent, but against very offensive teams, pokemon becomes a very strategic game and kadabra is just an awesome strategic token with access to a fast encore on magic guard (toxic, seeds, WoW, sub; bring 'em) and the combination of magic guard, focus sash, and a great special attack. kadabra also has good coverage and often surprises skuntank and probopass with hp ground.


    [​IMG]

    Altaria (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Cloud Nine
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Haze
    - Roost

    This is truly a niche poke my team needed. Eelektross is pretty hard to counter and this guy doesn't do it perfectly, but it's also useful against samurott and cb adamant sawk that breaks alomomola. Cloud nine also lets altaria trick ludicolo into thinking he's faster than me and taking a draco to the face. Altaria is also one of my hard hitters since my team really lacks a wallbreaker. Haze is also very useful against certain set up sweepers that try to abuse me postdraco and is a great asset against the powerful baton pass teams.



    [​IMG]

    Zebstrika (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Wild Charge
    - Return
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Volt Switch

    Last but not least, this set is another unusual one that fills a niche in my team. It checks subCM serp that would otherwise threaten my team. It's also the fastest member of my team and hits pretty damn hard with a choice band. Faking lightingrod will sometimes help me fool volt switchers and he can tank 1 or 2 if the opponent kows he doesn’t run it. Sap sipper is just as surprising and will sometimes grant me a sweep or at least cause major damage to nearly every team that doesn't run golurk. Zebstirka’s physical movepool is so limited, I decided to put volt switch to occasionally get in gothorita more easily on its preys and hp grass to counter golurk and golem.

    Threats:

    Armaldo: this isn't really a threat since alomomola walls him hard. The annoying thing about armaldo is that he's often used as a SR lead and I really don't have a thing to stop him form setting rocks at the very begging, I can't even make important damage to it on the free turn and it will rapid spin my rocks if I try setting them too.

    Musharna: In the same way as armaldo, I usually always win against musharna, the problem is my only answer to it is pp stalling it with gothorita which is boring as fuck and ruins the fun of the game.

    Haunter: I can actualy set up gothorita on sub disable haunter if I play correctly. I'll still be extremly weak to an eventual crit and haunter can take all the time he needs to get it. Piloswine can still break it with icicle spear but he'll take a shadow ball. Specs and LO haunter are a total pain though my team really can't handle those.

    Sawk
    : This guy really tears huge holes in my team. I have 3 checks to it but no counter really. Fortunately, gothorita can fake the physical wall and get make my opponent believe sawk isn't that useful.

    Changes I've thought of:

    -Changing piloswne to golurk, it would really help me against many of my threats but it's much less reliable to counter voltswitchers since they usualy carry an answer to golurk. I’ll also miss my only form of priority.

    -Changing zebstrika to silk scarf kangaskhan. It would make me weak to subCM serp but it's near unnexistant in today's metagame and it would really help me against musharna and haunter.



    Shoutouts:

    AgentDell and Incon: These two awesome guys have seen me build and use the team and are great players that everyone should know.

    Zebraiken: leads NU tier like a boss and is one of the rare guys to actually have defeated this team with barely any hax. Also the first smogon user to tell me I was awesome ! ;)

    WhiteDMist: Great guy and best team rater ! Rate this one whiteD !

    Don Honchkrorleone : (I'll never learn how to spell your name don I always copy paste it lol) Another awesome guy that's always stalking my battles and gets along with everybody. He makes even weirder and gimmickier sets than mine.

    The whole NU community: As every other member would say, best tier and best community on smogon

    So, that's all folks hope you enjoyed, rate and steal if you like :)
    (As usual, I’m sorry for some spelling mistakes and lack of vocabulary, I haven’t been speaking or writing English on a regular basis since 2002)

    Importable (warning this team will often make games last an eternity although you usually win those)

    Show Hide

    p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } Gothorita (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Future Sight


    Alomomola (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Toxic
    - Waterfall
    - Wish
    - Protect


    Kadabra (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Encore


    Piloswine (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Spear
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock


    Altaria (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Cloud Nine
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Haze
    - Roost


    Zebstrika (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Wild Charge
    - Return
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Volt Switch
  2. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,999
    Hey Sweet Jesus! As usual your team is very unorthodox but very effect at the same time. You mentioned some threats that are definitely pretty troublesome for your team, but there is one little fish that you forgot to account for...

    Gorebyss will give this team loads of trouble if Kadabra's Focus Sash has already been broken, so you might want to try out Choice Scarf Zebstrika instead of your current set. You can keep the Physical EVs and attacks if you want, but Substitute Shell Smash Gorebyss will really mess up this team since it can set up on Alomomola for free and devastate your team. Gothorita cannot tank Gorebyss' hits well at all without multiple Calm Mind boosts while the rest of your team is OHKOed.

    Physically Defensive Calm Mind Gothorita will be able to check Sawk a lot better than your current set, but as you mentioned, you'll have a much harder time setting up on Special Attackers. I'll leave this up to you since you know this team well enough to decide which spread you want to use. Personally, I don't think Sawk is too much trouble for your team since it has to spam Close Combat to do damage to Alomomola.


    Summary of changes:

    Choice Scarf —> Choice Band on Zebstrika
    [optional] Gothorita —> Physically Defensive Spread




    also you have hp dark instead of hp ground on your kadabra
  3. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 40 more
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    975
    You know I'd never miss rating one of your team! :heart: As always, you make unique teams that work together amazingly. It's almost physically painful to try and change something on your team since they work together so well.

    FLCL is right about Gorebyss being one of the only threats to your team not listed. His suggestion to give Zebstrika a Scarf is solid, since you really can't do too much to Amoonguss even if you get a Sap Sipper boost (252 +1 Atk Choice Band Zebstrika Return vs 252 HP/252 Def Amoonguss (+Def) : 43.29% - 51.16% (3 hits to KO)). Being able to revenge kill +2 Gorebyss and some weather sweepers is a nice utility for your team. Other than that, nothing else in the tier fills the same role without adding additional weaknesses to your team.

    I'd like to also add that Regice and Rotom-F threaten your team, especially if Regice carries the rare Focus Blast. While they probably won't be sweeping you anytime soon, they do have the ability to take out at least 1 member of your team except Gothorita. In fact, Ice types are a slight thorn on your side if they have a good secondary STAB or coverage move. Beartic gets a special mention for being able to set up on Kadabra while also being able to get around Encore with Aqua Jet. Piloswine and Gothorita can usually handle these threats, though both hate Trick from Rotom-F.

    The only possible suggestion I have is for Altaria to run Hidden Power Ground over Fire Blast. This is mainly because most of the Pokemon that you want Fire Blast for are hit pretty hard by HP Ground, and you get to hit the Steel/Rock Pokemon much harder (hopefully you managed to break the Air Balloon). Truthfully, this isn't too big a deal, although Probopass cannot be 2HKOed by any of your team except Piloswine and Kadabra (who I assume has HP Ground as well?). Scald over Waterfall is also possible for the burn chance (useful against CB Sawk), but it isn't quite as reliable as Waterfall. Still, your team does appreciate extra protection against powerful physical threats so I wouldn't count it out.

    Changes:

    Show Hide
    Altaria: HP Ground>Fire Blast
    Alomomola: Scald>Waterfall
    Zebstrika: Scarf>Band


    You could also move the 4 extra EVs of Gothorita and Zebstrika to Def and SAtk respectively, since those are slightly more significant.

    I'm finally out of things to say, so I'll bow out gracefully. Thanks for the shoutout, and good job on this innovative team! :pimp: Luvdisc for sure!
  4. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    509
    Hey guys thanks for the rates, sorry I took ages to respond.

    Scarf zebra does seem the best option for gorebyss (which amazingly enough I've encountered a lot and won every time hax didn't wreck my ass). However in nearly every other situation, band seems better. If I were to scarf it, I might as well replace it with rotom-f.

    I'll keep goth how it is because while it would help me cover sawk, I'll become much weaker to stuff like charizard and many other similar pokes if I ran max def.

    I had thought of hp ground and decided to use fire blast because I wanted an attack that has power for the times I won't have time to haze afterwards, it surely would help me for probopass who can be annoying if he carrys volt switch and flash cannon, but I don't think it's worth the change personnaly.

    I never run scald on alomomla for all sorts of reasons, but you're reasoning is good whiteD it woud probably be better for this team.

    I put the 4 EV's where they are because goth often lacks power and I mainly want zebstrika to resist electric attacks more than priorit really.

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