The sun is going to eat YOU!!!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by tavok, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. tavok

    tavok

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,152
    THE SUN IS GOING TO EAT YOU

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    Hi everyone! It has been a while since the last time I posted. You'll see, I got stuck on the DPP metagame, and when it started dying because people started playing B/W, i left competitive battling completely. However, when i was lurking in the internet with nothing to do, I suddenly came across this forums. After reading a little, I decided I wanted to come back. However, I had no idea of what had changed in the metagame, so i started reading RMTs, and what I noticed was that weather was the dominant play style and that Ferrothorn was the new Forretress (I know they are not the same, but you get the idea). So, with this in mind, I decided to make a team. I had always wanted to make a Sun team, and with Ninetales DW ability, this was the perfect time to do it.

    Team Building Process:
    Show Hide
    Since this was going to be a Sun Team, it obviously needed Ninetales, so it was the first Pokemon on the team.
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    After reading a RMT featuring Charizard, and after reading its analysis, I decided i wanted this beast (which is one of my favorite pokemons btw) in my team, firing powerful STAB, Solar Power, Sun boosted Fire Blasts.
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    Also, in the same RMT, there was a Venusaur set that took my attention, but it was mostly because of two thing: Chlorophyll and Growth. So i made a little investigation and found out about how Growth worked in the sun, and that Venusaur now had Chlorophyll. Sweet.
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    Next, I wanted another pokemon who could use the sun, and i found Victini whose signature move made me think of him like a monster. He gets FusionBolt too, and it having an extremely powerful move and a move with a cool name gave him a place in my team.
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    Next, I had wanted to try Mew because of its ability to Baton Pass any boost, so I threw it in so it could enhance my teams speed with RockPolish.
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    So, finally, i wanted something that could take a hit and set hazards up, so i went with Forretress because that was the only entry hazards user I was familiar with, and he could rapid spin.
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    Now, most of you probably already saw a LOT of MAJOR weaknesses, but at the moment i wasn't really thinking. So I went and fought with it... Only to lose to a Rain team. However, the team actually worked better than i tought, so i battled again and won in my second fight. Only to be murdered in so many horrible ways in the next five fight. I managed to win again, and i saw that I really needed to make some changes. First: Victini was doing NOTHING. Really, he was KOed by everything and couldn't do much back. So i replaced it with Heatran, because I wanted a steel type that wasn't KOed by fire attacks.
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    After a few more fights, I had my first fight with a Landorus: my opponent had been smart enough to activate sleep clause before sending it in, so it DESTROYED my team. So, i inmediately went in look for a way to hit it hard, and also something that could hit Gliscor hard because it was really frustrating to beat. I went with Latios because of his good speed, sp. attack and access to Ice Beam and, obviously, Draco Meteor. Since Forretress wasn't doing it job well because of the sun, i took him out and gave Heatran Stealth Rock. However, this left me without a rapid spinner, and without one, Charizard was suffering a lot, and, while it was really strong, it didn't perform as well as I thought, so i replaced him with Hitmontop so I could have a fighting STAB and priority.
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    The original team made me go down to the 900s, and between the changes, I went down to the 800s (830 and something if IIRC). However, the final version is actually winning more games than it is losing, and i made it back to the 900s quickly. No, i know this isn't a great team, but it has worked decently and helped me learn about the BW metagame. While at the start the team's goal was maintain the sun and send sweeper behind sweeper hoping to overwhelm the opponent, it now is more of a balanced team. So, without further ado, here are the team members!

    By the way, if you didn't realize by the title of the thread, I suck with names, so none of my pokemon have them.

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    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 232 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower
    - Substitute

    The pokemon that makes sun teams work. Ninetales gives this team support in the form of permanent sunlight, so it is really important. At first, she had HP fighthing and EnergyBall in an attemp to hurt both weather inducers, but after using it for a while I noticed that the lack of STAB hurted and that EnergyBall wasn't doing much damage to Politoed, so I replaced it with Flamethrower. The EV's are there for more bulk and to pack a bigger punch. While this set can't do anything to Politoed and i have to switch out or try to get a fast burn and then switch, most Tyranitars (or at least the ones i have fought againts) get beaten 1-on-1. Why do you ask? Because they "predict" a switch and go for the SR, while I press the little, red button that says "Will-O-Wisp" and they get burned. Then, I Substitute and, depending of what they do next, I either hit them with HP if they stay, or, if they switch, switch, or hit the switch with Flamethrower (Wow, those where A LOT of "switch"...). I yet have to see an Abomasnow, but I guess that I would go for the Subtitute as they, I dunno, protect, and then, depending on their team, Flamethrower or WoW. I like the amount of damage this set can deal and the amount of damage it can receive, but any suggestions are welcome. Oh, and leftovers are for more survivality. Ninetales can also weaken lead ShellSmash Cloyster so Hitmontop revenge kills them after they KO Ninetales. Of course, this is only if the other team is a weatherless team. Also, Ninetales tends to burn a lot of Pokemon, most of them physical attackers, so my team has an easier time with them.

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    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock

    A copy and paste of the Specially Defensive set. I run this set because: 1.- I needed something to take DracoMeteors. 2.- I like status. And 3: I wanted entry hazards. Earth power for opposing heatrans and other fire types, while SR keeps Volcarona, Tornadus and other pokes at bay. Lava Plume for the burn chance, and Toxic to cripple things. Heatran really likes her water weakness being nullified. The leftovers are for recovery since i don't have other ways of healing.

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    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psyshock

    My revenge killer. Who doesn't like a BLUE dragon that can shoot METEORS? I mean, it's BLUE! I have Latios as my response to Landorus, Gliscor, and as a clean up sweeper. DracoMeteor because it is really awesome, both its name and its BP. Ice Beam to take down Landorus and Gliscor, Thunderbolt for waters and Skarmory (even if it isn't that common now) and Psychock for those Chanseys and Blisseys that thing they can wall me.

    Despite all this, I have to complain about Latios. First: It doesn't deal nearly as much damage as I tought he would deal. And Second: He's walled by Ferrothorn. To solve the second point, I could replace Thunderbolt with HP fire, since DracoMeteor should hit waters hard enough. And for the first point, I could give him the Choice Specs. However, since Latios is my revenge killer, I really don't feel like doing this. Any ideas?

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    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 200 Atk / 68 Def / 172 SAtk / 68 SDef
    Hardy Nature
    - Growth
    - Energy Ball
    - Sleep Powder
    - Earthquake

    I absolutely LOVE Venusaur. He is just an incredible mon with sun up. The Evs are for bulk and power. Venusar is, definitely, the MVP of this team. He is the member of my team that gets to sweep most of the time (maybe because he is the only sweeper of the team...). I went with a mixed set because I felt that only using one of the 2 boosts that Growth gives was stupid. I try to get him in on a water attack when the sun is up, and SleepPowder in the first turn. Then, I Growth while the opponent switches, and I start pummeling their team. Energy Ball is for STAB, while Earthquake is for those steels that think they can beat me. Really, nobody expects Earthquake. A lot of people surrender when their Jirachi or Heatran is OHKOed. This combination has its flaws, however, since I'm completely walled by Skarmory, Dragonite and Bronzong. Because of this, I always check my opponent's team before sending Venusaur, and i prefer to wait until these threats are eliminated. I really love this set, and, right now, I don't hhave any changes in mind for it. Life Orb because I prefered power.

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    Hitmontop (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 200 Atk / 108 Def / 200 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Mach Punch
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Sunny Day

    My priority user, my rock resist, and my emergency Sun supporter. And he has sweeped more than once too. I use Hitmontop because he is cool. He has Technician and a priority move that gets STAB, and a decent attack stat to use it with. Also, since he is somewhat bulky, he can set the sun up with sunny day in case Ninetales dies in a weather war. A lot of people let their weather changer die after they kill the enemy one, so i can just send Hitmontop and put the weather on my side again, and my opponent can't do anything to stop me. The EVs are for some little bulk and for more offensive presence. Close Combat for a powerful STAB, MachPunch for priority, StoneEdge to hit flying and bug types and Sunny Day for emergencies. Life Orb to make revenge killing easier and, in general, hit harder.

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    Mew @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Baton Pass
    - Substitute

    And finally, perhaps the less obvious Pokemon in my team, Mew is my Baton Passer. I use it to boost my pokemons speed, making it easier for them to sweep. Rock Polish because all my team members can use the speed, Zen Headbutt for STAB and it makes sure I'm not Taunt fooder, Baton Pass so I can give my other members the speed boosts, and Substitute to play around statuses, Sucker Punch, and to scout sets and the opponent's response to Mew. With good enough luck and prediction, I can Baton Pass a Subsitute too, making sweeps waaaay easier. Mew almost always manages to do its job. The EVs are for bulk, and the Leftovers are for added survivality.


    Conclusion:
    Being my first sun team, I didn't expect this team to rocket all the way to the top of the ladder. However, it has been really fun, and I know it can get better. I really thought that sun and rain teams were pure offense, but after playing with this team, I now know that this isn't always true. Right now, the major threats I have encountered are Landorus, who can dispatch a good piece of my team if i'm not careful, gyarados, who can hit all my team for at least neutral damage with bounce+waterfall, and if it carried Earthquake I'm history. Xatu is really annoying too, but i can take it down after some time. Latias con prove a problem too, as well as Latios. Those are the threats I remember right now, I'll edit the the post later after I remember other threats, and I might add the complete threath list. So, start rating! And thanks in advance!

    Importable:
    Show Hide
    [Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 232 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower
    - Substitute

    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock

    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psyshock

    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 200 Atk / 68 Def / 172 SAtk / 68 SDef
    Hardy Nature
    - Growth
    - Energy Ball
    - Sleep Powder
    - Earthquake

    Hitmontop (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 200 Atk / 108 Def / 200 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Mach Punch
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Sunny Day

    Mew @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SDef
    Hardy Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Baton Pass
    - Substitute


    Oh, and sorry for the wall of text. And gramatical mistakes.
  2. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    535
    Right off the bat, I can tell this team has serious issues with Volcarona. Nothing on your team besides Hitmontop's Stone Edge really threatens it, and it can easily set up multiple Quiver Dances while Roosting off damage against the vast majority of your team and 6-0 you with ease. Mew's role on your team is unclear, since Venusaur doesn't need Baton Pass support to sweep and Rock polish doesn't help anything else very much. I recommend you run Blissey instead:

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    Blissey@Leftovers
    Bold Nature, 252HP/252Def/4SpD
    Wish
    Protect
    Seismic Toss
    Toxic

    Blissey is the best Special Wall in the game, easily taking on prime threats such as Latios, Volcarona, and Alakazam. Not only that, but she serves as a great team supporter. Thanks to the new mechanics of Wish, she can pass massive amounts of HP to your other pokemon, giving Venusaur another chance to sweep, Hitmontop more health to Spin, or Ninetales more time to change the Weather. Protect lets you heal yourself reliably and scout choice users who Blissey attracts, such as Scizor and Landorus. Seismic Toss gives you a reliable way to inflict damage, while Toxic lets you outstall other walls lacking Taunt.

    Another issue I see is a lack of Sun abusers. Venusaur is really the only one, since Heatran can do its job regardless of the weather. Seeing the list of pokemon giving you trouble and your disappointment in Latios' power, I recommend your run ScarfApe in its place:

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    Infernape@Choice Scarf
    Hasty Nature, 252Att/4Spe/252Spe
    Overheat
    Close Combat
    HP Ice/Stone Edge
    U-Turn

    Infernape is one of the most potent Choice Scarf users in the game, outspeeding and OHKOing many of the games top sweepers. Overheat is your primary STAB, and KOs basically everything that doesn't resist it. Close Combat mauls most things that resist Overheat, such as Terrakion, Heatran, and Blissey. HP Ice or Stone Edge are used to revenge Dragonite and Salamence. I listed HP Ice first since you can outspeed and OHKO Landorus, who you said gives you trouble. U-Turn provides scouting for your team, allowing you to maintain momentum after all the switches 'Ape will cause. However, Mach Punch can go here is you're concerned about Terrakion.

    Now for some smaller changes. With Blissey's Wish support, Lefties recovery is less important. You currently have no Ground immunities, so giving Heatran and Air Balloon can give him some extra early game utility. Doing the same with Ninetales isn't a bad idea either to avoid Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Earthquakes. I'd find room for Rapid Spin on Hitmontop; it's vital for Sun teams since Ninetales is SR weak and needs to switch in often against weather. If you opt for Mach Punch on Infernape, that spot makes sense while changing Hitmontop's ability to Intimidate with a more defensive spread. If not, I'd swap out Sunny Day. Lastly, I'd personally switch Sleep Powder for HP Fire. Hitting steels such as Scizor and Skarmory is important when Venusaur is you only sweeper; coverage is more important than spreading status.

    That's all I have. Good luck!
  3. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    Hey, cool sun team. First off, I know they're most likely typos, but you have several natures listed as Hardy so I would change them to the appropriate ones. The first threat to your team that jumped out at me was Swords Dance Lucario. Once it gets to +2 it will do some serious damage to your team, as your only normal resist is weak to Close Combat and Extremespeed > Hitmontops Mach Punch. A bulkier Hitmontop set with intimidate could fix this up, however I'm going to suggest a Choice Scarf Terrakion > Latios over Latios since I don't really like Latios as your revenge killer. Latios, (especially with a Scarf) is basically a free switch-in for one of a sun team's main concerns, Tyranitar. Terrakion on the other hand, keeps Tyranitar away meaning you can keep you sun up longer while also revenge killing almost all the same threats as Latios did. Scarf Terrakion also gives you a great pivot switch if Tyranitar wants to switch into Heatran or Ninetales.

    With Terrakion around, I think Hitmontop can be replaced. Personally I don't think your team needs Rapid Spin support. Your team does a very good job at keepong the pressure on common hazard users such as Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, not to mention your only Stealth Rock weak Pokemon is Ninetales. I suggest a Physically Deffensive Cresselia > Hitmontop. This change does a lot of things for your team and sun teams in general. She provides you with a study mixed wall thanks to a sun boosted Moonlight, while providing you with a secondary check to Landorus, Terrakion, Dragonite etc. You lose your backup sun, however with Cress you gain reflect support which is better in a lot of situations, specifically with your specially def based Pokemon like Heatran. If you decide to roll with this change then I would use Sunny Day > Sub on Ninetales due to the lack of spinner. You can check out Ninetales Sunny Day set for the full explantion.

    Finally, I don't think Mixed Venusaur is really nessasary here. Sure beating Heatran is nice, but with Earthpower on your own Heatran, HP Fighting on Ninetales and possibly Scarf Terrakion, I don't think losing all that power is worth it. I would just go with the standard Special Growth Venusaur for more power. This also means you can run Leftovers on Venusaur, which is great since it's your only reliable Rotom-W switch in.

    set(s) (open)

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly nature | Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Close Combat | Stone Edge | X-Scissor | Earthquake |

    Cresselia @ Leftovers
    Bold nature |
    EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 Spe
    Psychic | Ice Beam | Moonlight | Reflect |


    gl with your team :)
  4. tavok

    tavok

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,152
    Hi!

    Thanks for your suggestions. About the natures, I was toying around with them and forgot to set them back. The correct natures are set now. The only one I'll leave as Hardy is Venusaur, because I really don't know what I should use.

    @2sly4u: I was thinking about getting wish support, but I couldn't think of a good pokemon for the work. I'll try Blissey: she sounds like a good bet, and since a Volcarona sweep me today, I have no reasons not to. I'll try Infernape too, but since I use Latios mostly to revenge kill dragons, landorus and gliscor, I don't think Infernape will do very well, since he doesn't do a lot of damage to them. I'll try the different items too. And since the only one weak to SR is Ninetales, I generally don't need Rapid Spin, with Venusaur absorbing Toxic Spikes. And Venusaur's Sleep Powder helps a lot, since it can sleep a dangerous poke and it allows him to set up.
    Mew's support may seem strange, but lets the other pokes in my team sweep, depending on the situations. Also, it helps Venusaur, since that way he is really hard to revenge kill with both a Rock Polish and with sun up. However, if for some reason I lose the weather war, Mew can give Venusaur speed so he can sweep even without the sun. What I have thought is changing Rock Polish for another boosting move, maybe SD, Calm Mind or something, but I dunno.

    @Brizznetz: The natures are set now. Yeah, SD Lucario is really troublesome. I'll try a bulkier set on Hitmontop, but I think I'll miss the extra power on MachPunch. Substitute helps Ninetales too, since it makes defeating Tyranitar easier. I really doubt Terrakion would do the same job as Latios, since Latios is there to handle Landorus, Gliscor and dragons, and I don't see how would Terrakion handle them. Maybe the Latis and Dragonitem but thats all. I'll try it anyway. Tyranitar isn't an issue really. Cresselia looks nice, since she could handle the things Latios handles (right?), but I dunno. I'll try it to see how it works. And Venusaur is mixed so he isn't walled by Blissey and Chansey, which would happen if I make it purely special. And Heatran isn't the only thing it kills: theres Jirachi, fire types, steel types, and poison types. Yeah, HP fire can kill steels, but it doesn't work if the sun gets down.

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