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VGC The Sunny Room

Discussion in 'SM Other Teams' started by ExXIII, May 18, 2017.

  1. ExXIII

    ExXIII

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    49
    The team : [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Lilligant @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Level: 50
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sleep Powder
    - After You
    - Protect

    [​IMG]
    Torkoal (M) @ Charcoal
    Ability: Drought
    Level: 50
    EVs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 SpD
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
    - Eruption
    - Heat Wave
    - Solar Beam
    - Protect

    [​IMG]
    Snorlax (M) @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Level: 50
    EVs: 156 HP / 108 Atk / 244 Def
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Return
    - Earthquake
    - Belly Drum
    - Protect

    [​IMG]
    Oranguru (M) @ Mental Herb
    Ability: Telepathy
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 20 SpA / 92 SpD / 4 Spe
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
    - Psychic
    - Instruct
    - Trick Room
    - Sunny Day

    [​IMG]
    Marowak-Alola (F) @ Thick Club
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    Level: 50
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Flare Blitz
    - Shadow Bone
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    [​IMG]
    Tapu Lele @ Life Orb
    Ability: Psychic Surge
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Moonblast
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Protect


    I'm having pretty good results with this team (reached 1700 quite easily, didn't play much but didn't lose much).
    I'm posting this team to have your opinion on what can I improve, because I can't see what it's really lacking. Ideas ?
  2. Bright Size

    Bright Size

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    Team looks like it's pretty nice but I see a few things you may be able to improve.

    [​IMG]
    Lilligant @ Grassium Z
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Level: 50
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sleep Powder
    - After You
    - Protect

    You said that Leaf Storm just knocks out Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko because they counter Lilligant's Sleep Powder. True, but Leaf Storm isn't going to OHKO Tapu Fini/Tapu Koko all the time.

    252+ SpA Lilligant Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Tapu Fini: 168-200 (94.9 - 112.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Lilligant Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 138-163 (94.5 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

    Here I just used the generic spread that was in the Trainer Tower damage calculator. Keep in mind that a lot of Tapu Fini run +SpD natures with more SpD investment so the chance of one shotting is even less likely. There are even, in some rare cases (and it is definitely not unheard of), Tapu Koko with Assault Vest. Grassium Z should allow you to knock out these two fairly easily. Another thing Grassium Z allows you to do is knock out uninvested Garchomp (keep in mind a decent amount of them run at least some bulk).

    252+ SpA Lilligant Bloom Doom (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 186-219 (101.6 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    [​IMG]
    Torkoal (M) @ Charcoal
    Ability: Drought
    Level: 50
    EVs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 SpD
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
    - Eruption
    - Heat Wave
    - Solar Beam/Overheat/Bulldoze
    - Protect

    You might find that you're not using Solar Beam much because you have Lilligant. If that's the case I've tabbed Overheat as another, single target move and Bulldoze to manage the speed of things faster than Lilligant/Tapu Lele/Marowak.

    [​IMG]
    Snorlax (M) @ Figy Berry
    Ability: Gluttony
    Level: 50
    EVs: 156 HP / 108 Atk / 244 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Return
    - Recycle
    - Belly Drum
    - Protect/Crunch

    I honestly don't think that using up your Z move is worth the chance of being taunted. It's most likely not going to happen because a lot of players will try to taunt the Trick Room setter (you can set up Belly Drum the same turn you Trick Room to force your opponent into choosing whether they have to deal with Trick Room and or a +6 Snorlax). Figy Berry makes Snorlax a lot harder to kill and Recycle amplies that even more. I don't know why you want Sassy nature on Snorlax. I'm assuming it's to take SpD better but it's already very naturally SpD bulky. You'll need to survive something specific to convince me Sassy is worth using over Brave. If you find yourself having troubles with Ghost types because of only have a normal move on Snorlax, try using Crunch.

    I don't really see anything wrong about Oranguru. I'm not really much of a fan because I don't feel like it does much more than other Trick Room setters other than Instruct Eruptions. I'd probably run Mimikyu on this slot personally (Psych up with Belly Drum Snorlax is really strong).

    [​IMG]
    Marowak-Alola (F) @ Thick Club
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    Level: 50
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 SpD
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Flare Blitz
    - Shadow Bone
    - Bonemerang/Perish Song
    - Protect

    You want SpD investment on Marowak so that it can survive a Tapu Lele Psychic. Earthquake isn't a good option on Marowak when it gets Bonemerang (a single target Ground move, it's not going to hit your ally Pokemon ever). Perish Song is another reasonable option that helps against Eevee teams and is a method of forcing your opponent to switch out to whatever they have in the back. It's also a nice win con if you're up Pokemon and you opponent only has 1 or 2 left (they can't switch it out).

    [​IMG]
    Tapu Lele @ Life Orb
    Ability: Psychic Surge
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Moonblast
    - Thunderbolt/Taunt
    - Protect

    Hidden Power Fire is barely doing any more damage than a Thunderbolt would do on a neutral target in the sun. For example:

    252+ SpA Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 68 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax in Sun: 53-63 (21.7 - 25.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Gluttony Figy Berry recovery
    252+ SpA Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. 68 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 52-62 (21.3 - 25.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Gluttony Figy Berry recovery
    *I just used the default sets on Tapu Lele and Snorlax in the damage calculator here; Tapu Lele being Modest for these calcs doesn't take away anything from what I'm trying to show you here.

    Keep in mind that you're not always going to have the Sun up, especially with Gigalith being extremely prevalent in the meta. Thunderbolt is more consistent damage than Hidden Power Fire. Taunt in general is a good disruption move that can stop Pokemon that like to use set up moves like Swords Dance, Curse, Calm Mind, etc. which could be an issue for this team along with Recover on Porygon2.
    Garris_san likes this.
  3. ExXIII

    ExXIII

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    49
    I'll test Grassium-Z, Overheat and Glutonny Snorlax.
    Of course for the SpD investment of Marowak, that's what I wanted in the first place but I missed somehow xD

    Though, I'll keep HP Fire instead of Thunderbolt because of Metagross/Kartana/Togedemaru/Steel types while still being able to deal with Celesteela.
    I think I'll keep Earthquake too, I'll see.

    Oh and for the Sassy Nature on Snorlax, you can check by yourself, the stats are exactly the same than with Brave. ;)
  4. Bright Size

    Bright Size

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    You already have an Alolan Marowak and Torkoal to deal with those Steel types. You don't need another Fire move. I don't know why you still want HP Fire.

    I don't know why you're running Earthquake on Marowak/Snorlax when Marowak gets Bonemerang and Snorlax gets High Horsepower. Both deal more damage as single target attacks and you're not hurting your ally (bar the Oranguru) without forcing yourself to Protect. It doesn't make sense.

    Sassy 156 HP /108 Atk / 244 Def gives you 255/144/116/x/143/31
    Brave 156 HP / 108 Atk / 244 Def gives you 255/158/116/x/130/31

    I don't understand what you're saying about Sassy and Brave having the same stats. These stats are not the same. I don't know what you're trying to achieve with Sassy Snorlax. Give me something specific that you're trying to survive with the SpD increase that it doesn't already take. It doesn't really need the SpD increase when it's Recycle/Pinch Berry.

    Fyi in the future you need to add more description as to why you're using each Pokemon. More than 2-3 sentences. It helps the raters understand what you're actually trying to achieve with the team. It isn't helpful when you're just saying "sleep powder everything." Sleep powder what? Why are you wanting to sleep powder everything? "Abuses trick room" okay, but why are you wanting to use something that abuses Trick Room? Why are you using X mon (I'm thinking Oranguru here) instead of Y mon (like Mimikyu for example?). Be more descriptive. It's helpful to not only those rating your teams but it helps you understand your own team more.
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    Garris_san likes this.
  5. ExXIII

    ExXIII

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    49
    Well, for coverage mainly. Tapu Lele struggles only vs Steel types. I didn't find Dazzling Gleam very usefull when I tried it.
    Thunderbolt deals the same as Pyscho on Tapu Fini its field, but a little less without... I feel that would be the only reason, but I don't struggle a lot vs Fini anyway.

    I OHKO everything already with Snorlax that's why I prefer Earthquake, it helped me a lot especially against Protect. The fact it can hit other pokemons than Oranguru never bothered me.
    I changed my repart (you're wrong on the calc btw, since the EVs are not like that on the usual Brave repart). Now I run 244 HP/20 Atk/244 Def with Sassy nature so I can tank Hydro Vortex from Araquanid, Shattered Psyche from Tapu Lele, 50% survival on Foul Play and many others. At +6 the Atk investment changes nothing anyway.

    Though, I really prefer the Glutonny version with Grassium-Z on Lilligant, so thanks !
    I also like lot Overheat instead of Solar Beam.

    I don't like the 90% accuracy on Bonemerang, that's the main reason for that. And for a single-target nuke the 2 other attacks are just better.
    After many test, I don't feel there is a sense to play Bonemerang on this team to be honest, ahah.

    I'm not good to explain things tbh, I just play and see what's good, what's wrong... but when I have to write it down I just don't know what to write rofl.
    I'd just forget too many things, I prefer that kind of talk.
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  6. Bright Size

    Bright Size

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    You already have coverage in the Torkoal and Alolan Marowak. You do not need Hidden Power Fire. I don't think Dazzling Gleam is useful either unless the Tapu Lele is Choice Specs/Scarf. I guess another move you can consider is Psyshock since your physical attackers are fairly slow.

    I made a typo on Brave and meant 244, yes.
    I guess I'll leave the Snorlax spread alone. I don't think it's important enough to get in a huge argument over. I think what you're doing on it can work out really well.

    I still feel weird about your selection of Earthquake on Snorlax... Belly Drumming it to +6 Attack and then Earthquaking yourself just sounds extremely risky to me... That why I'd prefer High Horsepower/Protect on that slot.

    The weird thing about Bonemerang on Marowak is that I don't really think it's amazing either, but I think Earthquake is worse because the spread damage makes it weaker than Bonemerang. I've seen some niche moves like Substitute and Swords Dance over that slot, that may be worth considering.

    As for explaining things... At least you're trying. Nothing infuriates me more than people that just post their teams and ask for help with absolutely no explanation of why they're using what they have. Just continue to work on getting better at it is all I ask.
    Garris_san likes this.

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