ORAS OU The Worst Team to ever get to Rank #25

[LogzXD]

Literally the worst top 25 team you can ever find. Don't use this team; by making this rmt, i lose the surprise factor, which is the only reason the team succeeded.

I only use pokemon from the first two generations cause those are the only games i actually played. Nope, ive never played ruby or sapphire. Oh and the team had to have Blastoise and Nidoking cause those were my favorites.

Purple and Green are sick colors so like an idiot, I restricted myself even more by only using those color mons.

To be even more ridiculous, I only wanted to use one of each item.

Proof of Peak:

So there you have it, a horrible team with outrageous restrictions that made it into the top 25.

Cetus (Blastoise) @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rapid spin
- Water Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Named after the Great Sea Monster. This is a standard Mega Blastoise set. Max Special Attack EV's to be able to do as much damage as possible. 64 Speed EV's to be able to outpace every single non offensive Heatran used. The rest is put into bulk for general tankishness.

I chose Water Pulse cause of the strength it has over scald and the fact that it 2hkos +0 Sdef Mega Sableye if he opts to burn me. If he opts to CM, then the confusion game begins, where hes forced to start recovering and cannot burn me. Dark pulse kills Lati@s and Starmie, who will try to defog your hazards, as well as Gengar who will try to block your Rapid Spin. Ice beam is there for Landorus and Garchomp who always seem to compete with blastoise over the entry hazards.

Andromeda (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs 224 HP / 156 Def / 84 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Thunder wave
- Recover
- Baton Pass

Named after the Ethiopian princess. This a standard defensive set that is used to come into both Keldeo's water attacks and Azumaril's water attacks.

Giga Drain is the primary damaging attack. It is a great STAB attack and helps with longetivity. Thunder wave cripples unprepared teams. A common switch in is Tornadus Therian. If it gets paralyzed, it is rendered virtually useless. Moreover it has great synergy with Nidoking and Blastoise as they are not the fastest pokemon (Also para flinch hax with Blastoise's Dark Pulse are hilarious). Baton Pass is for momentum and is the first part of my volt turn core.

Orion (Tyranitar) (M) @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Atk / 136 Def / 56 SpD
Brave Nature
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast


Named after the Great Hunter Orion, cause he hunts down everything with his chople berry. Pursuit is the main attack used to trap lati@s, gengar, alakazam, hoopa, charizard y, raikou, manectric, you name it. Stone edge is the main stab attack and deals heavy damage on Talonflame, who gets set up on. Its also the only out to Volcarona. It also koes charizard x and dragonite after they used the switch in turn to dd up. Fire blast catches ferro thorn and scizor by surpise. More so ferrothorn, cause scizor usually just goes for the kill, but hey if they try to set up its a done deal.

Evs in attack are the so that puruit deals 75% on gengar (for the sub sets). Its risky i know but if gengar uses 2 focus blasts, there is a 49% chance both will hit. This is what we are banking on when switching tyranitar into a subed gengar. Defense is to survive eq from charizard and dragonite after one dd. and the rest is in SDef.

Scorpius (Scizor) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- U-turn

Named after Scorpius the only constellation that sort of resembles Scizor. Look at that ugly set. Its there to tank u-turns from lando and punish him. Scarf lando's EQ never 2hko's which is cool. U turn is there for momentum and makes scizor the second part of the volt turn core. Roost, Bullet punch and SD are there to make him some kind of win condition. Don't look at it for too long, its so ugly.

Cepheus (Nidoking) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Superpower

The wallbreaking nidoking name appropriately after the king of Ethiopia, Cepheus. I run a mixed set with very little SpA investment. The reason for this is that most walls weak to fire and ice moves are usually devastated by them so any more SpA is overkill. For example, Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Skarmory (after sturdy) Scizor and Gliscor are all outpaced and OHKOed by either Ice Beam or Fire Blast. That right there is the bulk majority of the walls in OU. The only walls I wish were OHKOed are Zapdos and Amoonguss. Both of those are countered by others on the team. The rest is put into Attack and Speed. Poison Jab OHKO's fairy types such as Clefable, Sylveon, and Togekiss. As well as dealing critical damage to anything that doesnt resist it. Superpower over EQ was so that I could 2HKO Chansey while still killing TTar and dealing critical damage to Heatran. The Speed ev's make nidoking just fast enough to outpace those max speed base 80 like hoopa u and dragonite.

Leo (Raikou) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Named after the great lion, Leo (even though hes more like a saber tooth tiger). This set has got to be the ugliest set on smogon. I chose this set cause of my frustration with how slow the specs set is. This is not meant to be a scarf pokemon, it is just meant to outspeed scarf lando, +1 DD Mega Gyarados, Alakazam and his mega, and Tornadus therian, thats it! Thats why he is Modest. I prefer the extra damage than for him to achieve certain speeds that I probably would not use him for.
Volt Switch is the main attack to do damage and maintain momentum and completes my volt turn core. Thunderbolt is an endgame move when Raikou needs to stay in to sweep. Extrasensory is an out to Mega Venusaur. I really wish it was Shadow ball but an out to venusaur is more important.

There you have it, the ugliest team on smogon. Enjoy and dont use it!

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-352300186
Old Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-271861701 I actually beat Volcarona????
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-271863993 Celebi and Blastoise taking care of rain
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-271866352 good win against a very good team
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-271868988 winning against an 1800 rank guy
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-271987017 my man nidoking breaking stall
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-271997383 more nido rampage
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-272143732 Blastoise is War, Blastoise is Death
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-272237077 Addressing Kyurem-B problem

 

[MikeDawg]

I think that a fairly easy switch is to change Celebi to a nasty/calm mind pass varient. It gives Nidoking the power to break venusaur and sableye, and while celebi loses out on coverage, the utility of reconciling some of the team's weaknesses makes up for this. Leaf storm has to be replaced in this case if you go with a grass option; psychic or giga drain are both fine choices. A more defensive spread is recommended to ease setup, but there is also merit in having the extra speed. Play around with it, and see what you like.

Some other options that you may want to consider:

Focus sash zam over jolteon. Zam is also a solid revenge killer, and it always lives a hit due to magic guard. It functions well with celebi passing boosts, and it has much more utility than jolteon imo. If you do this, a defensive spread with celebi (perhaps with calm mind and psychic) is preferred to take on thunderus and have an easier time with other electric types that your team is fairly weak to.

Slowbro is a solid option over skarm to better handle physical attackers like medicham. This leaves you terribly serperior weak, though, and would require you to shift your team around even more. You would also need to find another stealth rocks Mon, so take this suggestion as you will.

Unaware clefable is always an option in the last slot. It can also function as a revenge killer of sorts since it ignores boosts. It can also help to alleviate at least some of the pressure from medicham and lopunny (which is also an issue) if you elect for a physically defensive spread. It also appreciates celebi's ability to give it a free turn or two of setup, making it very dangerous very quickly!

Beat of luck!

 

[LogzXD]

Thanks for the reply.

Ill definitely test calm mind celebi. Maybe make it something like:

Celebi Leftovers
EVs 252 HP / 176 SpD / 108
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Giga Drain
- Baton Pass

I actually used to run Sash Zam, I liked it a lot. The only thing about it, which is pretty ironic, is I found it to have less utility than Jolteon. I mean I can use Jolteon as a Volt Turn Core throughout the match. Zam always seemed to come out in the end and had a small role early to mid-game. Is that normal? Ill test it out again with the CM Celebi. How is this set?

Alakazam Focus sash
EVs 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic (or Psyshock?)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast (Is this manditory? I hate this attack more than anything)
- Energy Ball

Slowbro would be tough to add because then I would have zero switch ins to a U-Turning Scizor, which is definitely more common. Plus it would feel weird to run two waters.
Clefable as a revenge killer is interesting. Ill try that out too. Thanks for the advice

 

[LogzXD]

bump, team sucks. peaked at around 1400 after the ladder reset. Need serious help. Volcarona can easily set up and sweep the team. No answers to Mega Sableye. No answers to pretty much anything that sets up. When I lose, I lose 5-0 because of setting up. Need to make some changes. Any ideas?

 

[Heatedline]

lose the those specific requirements if you want a high quality team :/

 

[LogzXD]

May I ask what suggestions you would make if it weren't for the requirements

 

[LogzXD]

Updated! Dropped Jolteon for Raikou, CB Tyranitar for Scarf Tar, Dragon Pulse over Aura Sphere on Blastoise.

 

[its.huey]

Team Building Process

Blastoise and Nidoking have always been my favorites and are a requirement for the team. That's not to say that they both are the first to join the team. I will start with Mega-Blastoise since he can hit like a truck. He has the ability to put holes in a team every time he comes in once his switch in's are gone.

What is Blastoise afraid of? Grass types and Electric tyles. I needed a grass type to offset these issues. I chose Celebi, who comfortable comes in to any Giga Drains, volt switches, thunderbolts, energy balls etc. that are aimed at Blastoise. This balanced core was also recommended by the core thread here:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-good-cores-check-post-714.3524713/

A great partner for celebi is Tyranitar since he eats up all the flying, dark, ghosts attacks aimedt celebi, then traps them. Celebi and Blastoise can come in against the bulky waters and ground types that threaten Tyranitar. These three pokemon complete my bulky core.

Finally I needed a pokemon to set Stealth Rock as well as absorb Fairy, bug and grass moves that threaten my team. I chose Skarmory to fill all of these roles. Pokemon that counter skarmory are easily dispatched by Tyranitar, Blastoise and Celebi, who appreciate Skarmory's ability to wall physical pokemon like Bisharp, Landorus-T, Scizor, etc. Stealth rock whirlwind support is crucial for netting key KO's and phazing out pokemon that set up on skarmory.

In order to deal with the fighting, electric weakness and status, I chose Nidoking. Celebi does a fine job absorbing status and electric and fighting attacks, but most status users, such as Chansey and Clefable, wall Celebi. Nidoking can safely come in to any toxic or thunderwaves from these pokemon and threaten them, something celebi could not do. Celebi also loves eating up the waters that swtich into nidoking.

The final spot is really up for grabs. I think at this point I needed generally fast pokemon. I chose Raikou since its fast, strong, helps stop voltturn, and creates a volt turn core of its own with celebi. Like I said this spot is up for grabs and is the spot I am most willing change.

Without further adieu, here is the team:

Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rapid spin
- Scald
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse

This is a standard Mega Blastoise set. Max Special Attack EV's to be able to do as much damage as possible. 20 Speed EV's to be able to outpace Minimum base 80 pokemon such as Togekiss or Dragonite, and occationally venusaur for a kill. The rest is put into bulk for general tankishness.

I chose Scald out of Water Pulse and Hydro pump because of the burn chance and accuracy. Hitting switch ins such as Rotom-W with a burn is game changing. Dark pulse kills Lati@s and Starmie, who will try to defog your hazards, as well as Gengar who will try to block your Rapid Spin. Aura Sphere is useful for Ferrothorn, but I chose Dragon Pulse since it is an out to Charizard X. Blastoise always survives a +1 Dragon Claw and always OHKO's with pulse. It also is my strongest attack for neutral damage.

Celebi @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs 224 HP / 176 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Baton Pass

I've always loved offensive Celebi. The 108 Speed EV's are to outpace Bisharp and escape with baton pass. 176 SpA ev's mean that Leaf Storm will always OHKO standard tail glow Manaphy which is such a threat. Once again the rest is put into bulk.

Leaf Storm boosted by miracle seed hurts a lot, and is the primary damaging attack. Earth power is for Heatran. The reason I chose it over Hidden Power Fire is that I would much rather swtich skarmory into Scizor than switch Blastoise into Heatran, since Lava Plume makes me cry all the time. Recover is manditory for longevity. Baton pass is there for a quick escape and to maintain momentum and creates a volt turn core with Jolteon.

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Superpower



Pursuit is the main attack used to trap lati@s, gengar, starmie that Ttar comes in to. Crunch is a powerful stab move and the most reliable move when I need to get locked into an attack to sweep. Stone Edge is coverage STAB. It also OHKO's Bulky Talonflame even when TTar is burned. Superpower is my flex spot. Its mostly for destroying other Tyranitars and Heatrans.

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Whirlwind

This could not be any more standard. Wall Physical Attacks and set up hazards and phaze mons out. Stealth Rock is very important because the team forces a lot of switches, so it is imperative that I punish those switches. Roost and Brave bird are mandatory for healing and damaging. Whirlwind is very important for stopping Swords Dance Bisharp. It used to be Defog and gave Blastoise a 4th attacking move, but Bisharp and Gyarados just freely set up on Skarmory which I could not allow.

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
- Poison Jab

The wallbreaking nidoking. I run a mixed set with very little SpA investment. The reason for this is that most walls weak to fire and ice moves are usually devastated by them so any more SpA is overkill. For example, Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Skarmory (after sturdy) Scizor and Gliscor are all outpaced and OHKOed by either Ice Beam or Fire Blast. That right there is the bulk majority of the walls in OU. The only walls I wish were OHKOed are Zapdos and Amoonguss. Both of those are countered by others on the team. The rest is put into Attack and Speed. Poison Jab OHKO's fairy types such as Clefable, Sylveon, and Togekiss. As well as dealing critical damage to anything that doesnt resist it. Superpower over EQ was so that I could 2HKO Chansey while still killing TTar and dealing critical damage to Heatran.

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Extrasensory

Max SpA EV's are for max damage, 224 Spe is to outpace everything I want. 252 spe only really lets me speed tie with starmie which i dont care for; Id rather have bulk. Volt Switch is the main attack to do damage and maintain momentum. Thunderbolt is an endgame move when Raikou needs to stay in to sweep. Shadow ball is to revenge kill Gengars and Alakazams. Extrasensory is an out to Mega Venusaur


Threats:

Bisharp - once skarmory goes down, though skarm does lose a lot to the SD set. Blastoise beats it one on one though

Volcarona - autowin

Alakazam - Once Raikou goes

Weavile - same as bisharp in nearly every regard. It doesnt take long before it wears down skarmory enough so that he cant switch in on him

The team needs a lot of work and I appreciate any help you can prove. I'd like to keep it within the first two generations, but if something else is absolutely necessary please do recommend it.

This is a really cool team, and I appreciate your devotion to stick to Gen 1 and 2 mons only, so I'll try to help you shape up this team instead of suggesting alternatives.

I would start by switching aura sphere/ice beam>dragon pulse. I can appreciate dragon pulse doing more to Zard X, but in all other cases, it's generally more preferable to have fighting coverage for mons like Weavile or Bisharp, who can kind of 6-0 your team. At least with Scarf Tar, you have a pretty reliable check to Zard.

Giga Drain over Leaf Storm is a must here on a baton pass set. Pretty self explanatory, but you DO NOT want to pass a -2 spA to literally half your team, and Giga Drain helps with longevity anyways. It's also more reliable in general than Leaf Storm :). Since you have Blastoise to switch into Heatran, I'd also recommend HP Fire over Earth Power. This will give you a nice lure against Scizor and Ferro, and even with Fire Blast on Nidoking, your team can very quickly torn down by Scizor if you're not careful.

I'd honestly go with max SpA on Nido instead of Attack. Superpower and Poison Jab coverage just isn't enough of a reason to me, and a Sheer Force boosted Fire Blast or Ice Beam can do much more for your team. Another big reason to go special is because Sludge Wave is just always superior to Poison Jab. Mainly because almost all fairies are more physically defensive than specially, and stab Sludge Wave is very nice as a neutral hit against defensive Water types like Rotom or Slowbro. It also takes on Mega Venusaur better (which can be a big bain to your team). I can understand Superpower for Chansey's, but I personally run Sucker Punch on my Nido's which is some much needed priority for your team (and a lure for Lati's).

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 398-468 (101 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 361-429 (91.8 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 307-361 (101.9 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 216-255 (71.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 253-300 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Life Orb Nidoking Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 304-359 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO (Still does a chunk)
4 Atk Life Orb Nidoking Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 185-218 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Lastly, I'd choose HP Ice over Shadow Ball on Raikou. Scarf Tar reliably checks Lati's and Megagross anyways, and the fast ice coverage is indispensable against Garchomp and Lando-T, the former being tough for your team to break down. When in doubt, go with bolt beam coverage!

Set

Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 224 HP / 176 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover
- Baton Pass

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Sucker Punch

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Extrasensory

 

[LogzXD]

KidMagic Thanks for the reply. While I do not doubt your changes will work, I cannot help but feel it is no longer the same team since you are changing 4 mons entirely. That is not to say I will disregard your comment. I will test your changes to see if I can learn more about the original team (what works in one and not the other, etc).

its.huey Im glad you like it and thanks for the feedback. I've been working quite along time on this team and have tested a lot, including a lot of your suggestions. Here are some thoughts on the topics of your suggestions:

1) The thing I miss most about Aura Sphere is that it gives blastoise the ability to combat ferrothorn, not my ability to take on weavile and bisharp. Let me explain. Most of the time, I usually go into skarm when faced with weavile or bisharp. They almost certainly use knock off. They both take 17% from rocky helmet and 10% from life orb (I am not considering non-life orb sets as skarmory isnt threatened by them). That's a total of 27% meaning they have 73% left. I switch into stoise (weavile deals nothing with icicle crash and bisharp unfortunately Sword dances) Weavile takes another 10%. Weavile 63% Bisharp 73%. The both attack blastoise and take 10% more. Weavile 53% Bisharp 63%. Here are some calcs:

252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 198-234 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Weavile: 169-201 (60.1 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

stoise usually wins. Weavile leaves stoise with min of 38% and Bisharp leaves him with a min of 5%. The better play clearly is to send ttar in on bisharp when he SD's and ko with EQ or Superpower, but the point is that Aura Sphere never usually matters in these cases.

2) Celebi needs work, I admit. I am currently testing a defensive set to support blastoise and nidoking. This is it:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 80 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Healing Wish

T-wave allows Nido and Stoise to outspeed opposing threats and Healing wish gives blastoise new life. I may consider HP fire for ferrothorn. Scizor usually isnt a problem because skarmory walls it to no end, which is why I initially opted for Earth power for Heatran.

3) I totally understand where you are coming from with Nidoking. I, myself, am on the fence about whether or not to use the Special set. Here is my reasoning for maintaining mixed, and I am curious as to how you would reply to it. Clefable cannot do anything to nidoking, so on the off chance its actually at 100% AND I dont get rolls, it does not threaten nidoking in any way. From that point, one of 2 things can happen. He switches or gives it up. If he switchs, every single pokemon on my team can outpace it and KO it at that HP, even skarmory:

4 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 94-112 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Now lets examine the second most used fairy in the tier, Sylveon:

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 335-398 (85 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 335-398 (85 - 101%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 398-471 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Just a though. Also with the other calcs, Im not sure they are too groundbreaking, since they are out of his role. Mega Metagross always outpaces and always OHKO's with Zen Headbutt and Tyranitar is just that good of a Lati@s check. I would like sucker punch for alakazam though. The damage on slowbro is incredible, and would be very useful, but celebi, blastoise, raikou, and tyranitar threaten it with Giga Drain, Dark Pulse, Volt Switch (or Thunderbolt), and Crunch, so extra damage from nidoking isnt too important.

The Chansey KO is very important here because I cannot kill it any other way. Poison Jab Followed by Superpower always KO's. If I used your set, I would be forced to stall it to death, which I dont even think I can do.


4) You sold me on HP Ice, the only problem i see here is that Mega Alakazam can run through my team if i dont T wave it, but I guess with bulky celebi now that shouldnt be too hard to do. The other point is the EV's. What is the notable mons i want to outspeed with the extra EV's. Here is the Speed Tier list:

361 / Absol (Mega), Azelf, Houndoom (Mega), Raikou, Starmie / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
361 / Tyrantrum / 71 / Neutral / 252 / +1
359 / Aerodactyl / 130 / Neutral / 252 / 0
358 / Magnezone / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +1 / 30IV [Hidden Power Fire]
357 / Serperior / 113 / +Spe / 252 / 0
356 / Serperior / 113 / +Spe / 252 / 0 / 30IV [Hidden Power Fire]
355 / Scolipede / 112 / +Spe / 252 / 0
354 / Raikou, Starmie / 115 / +Spe / 224 / 0
353 / Thundurus, Tornadus / 111 / +Spe / 252 / 0

As you can see aside from maybe Serperior, there are not many mons I'd rather outspeed. My logic is If i am going to speed tie with most starmie, Id rather lose everytime and be more bulky than pray that I win the speed tie. I still however, outspeed Thundurus, which is my biggest priority.

This is my reasoning for a lot of my choices. I'm not definite on them, so I am curious as to how you would justify your suggestions with this information and will definitely put a lot of consideration into them.

Again thanks a lot for the feedback!

P.S. I am assuming the Tyranitar Set you gave me was a typo and should be Choice Scarf over Tyranitarite

 

[its.huey]

Mkay you need some help.

- Drop Mega Blastoise and replace it with TG + 3 Attacks Manaphy. You see you lack a visible WinCondition. Manaphy gives you that as well as a Wall and Stallbreaker assuming it's setup which isn't very hard. It frees up your Mega Slot for something else as well which offers valuable role compression and a more beneficial Mega.
- As for ScarfTar change it to ScarfBisharp. You retain the ability to Pursuit trap but you also outrun Alakazam and Weavile so you can stop them before they really dent your team.
- Your team is actually really more offensive than Balance, so Skarmory just kills all momentum. So I suggest you try TankChomp instead as to punish U-Turners and Physical Attackers. It also beats Volcarona and Bisharp so that's a plus.
- I suggest you drop Nidoking in favor of Offensive Mega Venusaur. Mega Venusaur virtually does the same as Nidoking but it doesn't hit as hard but that shouldn't be much of a problem considering your team has some pretty great offensive presence already. To still cripple Chansey Knock Off is ran.
- As for Raikou please shift the remaining 32 EVs into Speed. Sorry for all the changes (whew) but please consider this. Have fun and good luck

Set

Manaphy @ Leftover / Splash Plate
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Tail Glow

Bisharp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch / Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Iron Head

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Knock Off

KidMagic Thanks for the reply. While I do not doubt your changes will work, I cannot help but feel it is no longer the same team since you are changing 4 mons entirely. That is not to say I will disregard your comment. I will test your changes to see if I can learn more about the original team (what works in one and not the other, etc).

its.huey Im glad you like it and thanks for the feedback. I've been working quite along time on this team and have tested a lot, including a lot of your suggestions. Here are some thoughts on the topics of your suggestions:

1) The thing I miss most about Aura Sphere is that it gives blastoise the ability to combat ferrothorn, not my ability to take on weavile and bisharp. Let me explain. Most of the time, I usually go into skarm when faced with weavile or bisharp. They almost certainly use knock off. They both take 17% from rocky helmet and 10% from life orb (I am not considering non-life orb sets as skarmory isnt threatened by them). That's a total of 27% meaning they have 73% left. I switch into stoise (weavile deals nothing with icicle crash and bisharp unfortunately Sword dances) Weavile takes another 10%. Weavile 63% Bisharp 73%. The both attack blastoise and take 10% more. Weavile 53% Bisharp 63%. Here are some calcs:

252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 198-234 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Weavile: 169-201 (60.1 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

stoise usually wins. Weavile leaves stoise with min of 38% and Bisharp leaves him with a min of 5%. The better play clearly is to send ttar in on bisharp when he SD's and ko with EQ or Superpower, but the point is that Aura Sphere never usually matters in these cases.

2) Celebi needs work, I admit. I am currently testing a defensive set to support blastoise and nidoking. This is it:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 80 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Healing Wish

T-wave allows Nido and Stoise to outspeed opposing threats and Healing wish gives blastoise new life. I may consider HP fire for ferrothorn. Scizor usually isnt a problem because skarmory walls it to no end, which is why I initially opted for Earth power for Heatran.

3) I totally understand where you are coming from with Nidoking. I, myself, am on the fence about whether or not to use the Special set. Here is my reasoning for maintaining mixed, and I am curious as to how you would reply to it. Clefable cannot do anything to nidoking, so on the off chance its actually at 100% AND I dont get rolls, it does not threaten nidoking in any way. From that point, one of 2 things can happen. He switches or gives it up. If he switchs, every single pokemon on my team can outpace it and KO it at that HP, even skarmory:

4 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 94-112 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Now lets examine the second most used fairy in the tier, Sylveon:

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 335-398 (85 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 335-398 (85 - 101%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 398-471 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Just a though. Also with the other calcs, Im not sure they are too groundbreaking, since they are out of his role. Mega Metagross always outpaces and always OHKO's with Zen Headbutt and Tyranitar is just that good of a Lati@s check. I would like sucker punch for alakazam though. The damage on slowbro is incredible, and would be very useful, but celebi, blastoise, raikou, and tyranitar threaten it with Giga Drain, Dark Pulse, Volt Switch (or Thunderbolt), and Crunch, so extra damage from nidoking isnt too important.

The Chansey KO is very important here because I cannot kill it any other way. Poison Jab Followed by Superpower always KO's. If I used your set, I would be forced to stall it to death, which I dont even think I can do.


4) You sold me on HP Ice, the only problem i see here is that Mega Alakazam can run through my team if i dont T wave it, but I guess with bulky celebi now that shouldnt be too hard to do. The other point is the EV's. What is the notable mons i want to outspeed with the extra EV's. Here is the Speed Tier list:

361 / Absol (Mega), Azelf, Houndoom (Mega), Raikou, Starmie / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
361 / Tyrantrum / 71 / Neutral / 252 / +1
359 / Aerodactyl / 130 / Neutral / 252 / 0
358 / Magnezone / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +1 / 30IV [Hidden Power Fire]
357 / Serperior / 113 / +Spe / 252 / 0
356 / Serperior / 113 / +Spe / 252 / 0 / 30IV [Hidden Power Fire]
355 / Scolipede / 112 / +Spe / 252 / 0
354 / Raikou, Starmie / 115 / +Spe / 224 / 0
353 / Thundurus, Tornadus / 111 / +Spe / 252 / 0

As you can see aside from maybe Serperior, there are not many mons I'd rather outspeed. My logic is If i am going to speed tie with most starmie, Id rather lose everytime and be more bulky than pray that I win the speed tie. I still however, outspeed Thundurus, which is my biggest priority.

This is my reasoning for a lot of my choices. I'm not definite on them, so I am curious as to how you would justify your suggestions with this information and will definitely put a lot of consideration into them.

Again thanks a lot for the feedback!

P.S. I am assuming the Tyranitar Set you gave me was a typo and should be Choice Scarf over Tyranitarite

Glad to see you like my suggestions!
I'll respond by addressing your team as a whole before replying to your points. My main worry with your team is that that your defensive core is easily overwhelmed by hyper offense. For example, Mega Scizor, SD Bisharp, and LO Crawdaunt (which is a BIG threat to your team) can repeatedly come in to your team, fire off a huge hit before switching out. Skarm serves as a half decent check, but it can be worn down quickly from the onslaught, getting 2HKO'd by Crawdaunt for example. This is why I generally recommend some coverage moves on some of your bulkier mons so that they can effectively act as lures and pull through in dire circumstances. Moreover, lots of hyper offense teams carry elaborate coverage moves as well as volt-turn cores, so the less you have to use Celebi or Skarm to switch into attacks, the bette;,every now and then, a Keldeo will carry HP Bug and catch you off guard. However, I haven't had a chance to test the team thoroughly, so if you feel like Skarm and Celebi are reliable enough checks too all these mons, then carry on!

Now for the individual mons.
1) While I've never seen Dragon Pulse as good enough coverage, I can see that aura sphere doesn't really hit anything harder other than Ferro, so point taken. Ice Beam is still a nice option for catching Torn-T, Zapdos, Garchomp, and Mega Altaria harder, but that'll be up to you to decide if you prefer that over Dpulse.

2) I think that Defensive Celebi works much better for your team! :) However, I am a little torn on Healing Wish, which I feel like isn't particularly useful on your team for anything other than Blastoise. Don't get me wrong, a clutch Healing Wish can come in huge in turning the tides, but I wonder if you'd get more utility with Stealth Rock or another coverage move here instead.

3) The calcs I put in for Nidoking was to show's its role as a Wallbreaker. It doesn't have the speed to sweep, and you're not using it for support. Thus, I think your best option is to hit everything as hard as possible with STAB Sludge Waves.
IMO, it's best set in OU is still
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Att / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Sucker Punch

Earth Power has better coverage and holds it's own against bulky Steel types still, and really threatens Heatran without relying on Superpower, which is almost always less reliable due to it's stat drops. Earth Power also means that your team isn't walled by Mega Sableye. I find that Sludge Wave is pretty spammable for pesky fat Water pivots like Rotom-W and Slowbro that switch in every once in awhile, something you generally find useful throughout general play. By opting for Earth Power, you have less need to rely on Fire Blast and Superpower for coverage, allowing you the option to run Sucker Punch, which is not commonly seen on Nidoking, and is really a nice option in the back. It has a 20% chance of OHKOing MegaZam outright with 4 Attack EVs; more importantly, you don't rely on Tyranitar as an answer to threats so often. You also have an option to switch into Lava Plume's and Will-O-Wisps, since a burn doesn't completely destroy your offensive potential. As a side note, Sludge Wave is a guaranteed 2HKO on Mega Venusaur which is pretty important since your team can't really touch it otherwise. To explain the calcs from earlier, Nidoking outspeeds Jolly Metagross before Mega Evolving, and I personally have killed plenty of Megagross's in this fashion. Ultimately, play around with both variants of Nidoking and see what feels best.

Mega Sableye Calc:
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 181-214 (59.5 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 104-123 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

4) I would throw in 240 Speed EV's into Raikou since, although you may not need to outspeed Starmie, I don't see your team doing too well against Serperior otherwise. Depending on how scared of Zam you are, an option over Raikou is Calm Mind Magic Guard Clef. (Fits the Gen I Theme). You can take a lot of hits, and either set up or paralyze. Interesting option to consider.

252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hope all of this made sense. Happy to elaborate more if need be.

 

[LogzXD]

its.huey Thanks for following up.

For Celebi, do you think a second rocker is useful, since I already have skarmory? Also with a defensive spread, do you think that it would be strong enough to act as a lure?

0 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 136-160 (38.6 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 208-248 (60.6 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 144-172 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Celebi Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 188-224 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

My reasoning for Healing Wish is that Blastoise wins nearly every one on one it comes across. So by giving it new life, it could likely beat at least 2 pokemon, which is incredible advantage. Perhaps Baton pass could also be an option for momentum?

You're probably right about nidoking, those calcs are very impressive. I'll definitely try it out. One concern though. Do you think that without the Atk and Fire Blast, Chansey and Ferrothorn will wall my team? I'm not sure how I'd kill them if I ran that special nidoking.

 

[Malheur]

Hi.

I love your idea, as a fan of the first two generations myself.
I noticed as playing that there was not a lot I could do against a Sableye-Mega if it ever achieves to grab a Calm Mind boost. I also got swept by Kyurem-Black but my opponent predicted me very well during that game.
So I had an idea, keeping in mind that you only want to use Pokemon from the two first generations. Clefable over Celebi would fix the Sableye-Mega and Kyurem-Black weakness, and Slowbro-Mega over Blastoise should be a good substitute to Celebi as Keldeo main switch-in. I always try to have a booster in my teams so Slowbro-Mega could be Calm Mind, it is indeed very practical when you want to close out games before the opponent does.
I hope it helps, it was a challenge to change your team with only old Pokemon but they are the best!

 

[LogzXD]

Malheur Thanks for the feedback, seems like Clefable is looking to be more and more the answer. Could celebi work as an offensive booster to fight sableye, dazzling gleam? Kyurem B is usually checked by Tyranitar who OHKO's with Stone Edge. Ill test out your changes see if I get any luck. I do wish to understand the cores mentioned on this page:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-good-cores-check-post-714.3524713/

Mega Blastoise and Celebi are said to go well together but it seems like they both just got replaced instantly for seemingly better options. Whats the point then?

Currently sitting at top 400 with a rank of 1589

 

[Malheur]

Malheur Thanks for the feedback, seems like Clefable is looking to be more and more the answer. Could celebi work as an offensive booster to fight sableye, dazzling gleam? Kyurem B is usually checked by Tyranitar who OHKO's with Stone Edge. Ill test out your changes see if I get any luck. I do wish to understand the cores mentioned on this page:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-good-cores-check-post-714.3524713/

Mega Blastoise and Celebi are said to go well together but it seems like they both just got replaced instantly for seemingly better options. Whats the point then?

Currently sitting at top 400 with a rank of 1589

Hi.

I hope everything is going well for you. I just came to say that while testing your team I noticed that Tyranitar was Adamant. With this nature, it can't outspeed Starmie, base 110 speed Pokemon such as Latios, Keldeo etc.
You really want to change this nature to Jolly in my opinion.

Good luck!

 

[LogzXD]

I'm sorry, it is jolly. I just forgot to change the nature from when he was banded. The team is really good, it can win pretty consistently and go high up the ladder. The only problem with it is that it has no answers to certain pokemon, and I mean none. For example, if i dont burn mega sableye with scald, i lose. If mega gyarados with crunch gets a dd, i lose. If +1 volcarona kill ttar, i lose. If excadrill or bisharp get +2, i lose. Mega Venusaur can only be beaten if celebi manages to paralyze it. I dont have any switch ins for these mons, so I usually need to rely on offensive pressure to deal with them, which is actually very stressful.