Weezing has won me 3 tournament matches and Cress is a fucking god
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Gen 6 The XY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread [Read Post #1000]
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Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
That's the fun of it.
No but seriously we should rank anything with a vaguely meaningful niche, and give analysis to everything above chansey rank, or in chansey rank + banned from OU (Deo-n lookin at u).
No but seriously we should rank anything with a vaguely meaningful niche, and give analysis to everything above chansey rank, or in chansey rank + banned from OU (Deo-n lookin at u).
The problem with Reshiram is fitting it on a serious team (quite a few people can second just how much of a pain this is). It is very hard to bring in safely since its mediocre speed will usually mean that it will need to take a hit from its opponent before it is able to move. Its Speed also means that it is easy for Palkia to revenge kill it and Ho-Oh is an easy swap in to any offensive variant without Stone Edge of without rocks on the field (I.e. The specs variant you are using in the calcs). The most viable Reshiram sets as of now are Flame Charge and Toxic Roost and the first one is difficult to set up without getting threatened by its switch in, and the other faces defensive utility competition from other pokemon, namely Palkia. Reshiram as a whole has little place in the meta with such restrictive team building which is why it is ranked C.
After playing with Mawile a bit, I can second it for a retest / evaluation on whether it gets an analysis or not. It is probably the most difficult Geoxern check to switch into and it gets quite a few opportunities to Mega Evolve against Yveltal, when Checking Life Orb Mewtwo / MMY, against just about any Xerneas other than Life Orb, against Lugia, against Klefki, and against just about anything in Sucker Punch range. Just to give you an idea of how powerful this Sucker Punch is, 16 Attack EVs Adamant is almost in the ball park of 4 Attack LO Yveltal's which is also boosted by Dark Aura. Mawile is pretty easily checked though witch is an issue but not enough to keep it out of at least C rank. Bulky Grounds and Steels not named Klefki are the only true switch ins to Mawile since it can carry Rock Slide > Swords Dance or Toxic in this slot. It's a good mon.
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I'd like to nominate Forretress to move down to B-/C+ rank. Forry struggles to hold a niche in a tier where support Arceus and defog Giratina-A are so common. It can set spikes and spin, but with it's low special bulk and minuscule offensive presence Forretress can be a liability against more offensive teams, often not providing anything but one hazard before dying. It can't effectively check Xern, as Xern's best set (HP fire/thunder) easily KOs if sturdy isn't intact, which it should be given Forry's role as the hazard control. It can take hits and toxic E-killer, but as overheat gets more common our bagworm friend isn't a reliable counter either. Spinning is hard in a tier full of ghosts, and Forretress can't even volt switch out to build momentum, given it's need to run spin, hazard, gyro for Xern and toxic. Forretress does have a unique niche as a rapid spinning physical wall, but the free turns it gives and existence of better options for hazard control (drill, defoggers) make it more deserving of a B- or C+
Maybe common wasn't the best choice of words, I meant possible to run, and in my experience fairly useful to balance teams that are using a different Arceus. Giratina-O can also defog, as can Scizor. I meant it more as in there are defoggers and that defog is a common move that many viable pokemon can use to undo almost all of what Forretress does. Also how common defog Gira-A is really doesn't change that Forretress is rather overrated on the list IMO.
I agree that Forry should move down, but the reasoning here is somewhat flawed. Forretress provides Utility out the ears, but its lack of a Defensive niche is what hurts it a lot. It is extremely hard to fit on a team these days due to the restriction caused by Geoxern and many other threats. Geoxern in particular makes Klefki look a lot stronger than Forretress as a hazard setter / Status carrier and the Hazard removing piece is usually taken over by an Arceus forme of some kind. This is because of Klefki's obvious defensive niches in checking Xerneas and Yveltal so although it falls short of Forretress's sheer amount of utility, it is still much more appetizing when building a team. Defog Arceus formes all have pretty noticeable defensive niches as well which also hurt Forry's image. I hope you can see where I am going here.
That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say, I'm sorry if that didn't come across. I was trying to show it doesn't really check very much and it's support roles don't necessarily make up for that enough for B rank when other things can do that as well. I'm sorry if I didn't word my post right, thanks for putting it more concisely.
ur kidding right?
Nope.
Klefki wasn't good because of Swagplay. Klefki is good because it offers a ton of support to a team in checking a lot of key pokemon, having access to priority Twave, spikes, toxic, etc. Swagplay became its infamous set, but its ban does not hinder Klefki's performance at all.DoubleOD said:
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
It also is probably the most usable check to geomancy xerneas [a lot are viable ofc, but this probably fits nicely on more archetypes than most] which is an important part of its high ranking.
Klefki boasts being able to check a shitton of Pokemon with its status, has priority Spikes, and most notably hardchecks Xerneas and Yveltal by virtue of its awesome typing.
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
It's kind of a soft check to yveltal; focus blast is neutral, and it can taunt it. Sure it doesn't like play rough but any team will carry something that can come in on key's play rough :] and then it is set up bait.
I would like to nominate Avalugg for C/C-. Avalugg has a monolothic 184 defense which is nicely complimented by its 95 bas hp. This massive physical bulk allows Avalugg to shut down many physical threats such as Zekrom, Groudon, and most importantly Ekiller. In return it can use its 117 base attack to OHKO the first two, and can phaze out Ekiller or do significant damage. It can even stand a sacred fire from all non-cb ho-oh and can OHKO in return with stonedge.
In addition Avalugg is one of only five fully evolved mons with access to rapid spin and recovery. It can also use a gimmicky mirror coat set to deal with special sweepers or just phaze them as they try to set up on him. Along with Magnezone it is the one of two mons with access to the sturdy and mirror coat combo.
Some numbers to help my point
On defense
On offense
Note how the stats have little investment in defense. Thats how ridiculous the defense is.
In addition Avalugg is one of only five fully evolved mons with access to rapid spin and recovery. It can also use a gimmicky mirror coat set to deal with special sweepers or just phaze them as they try to set up on him. Along with Magnezone it is the one of two mons with access to the sturdy and mirror coat combo.
Some numbers to help my point
On defense
+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 310-366 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Teravolt Zekrom Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 207-243 (52.5 - 61.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 103-122 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- 7.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 95-113 (24.1 - 28.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Lugia Aeroblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Teravolt Zekrom Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 207-243 (52.5 - 61.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 103-122 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- 7.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 95-113 (24.1 - 28.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Lugia Aeroblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
On offense
252+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 300-354 (83.1 - 98%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zekrom: 342-404 (100.2 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 171-202 (38.5 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Avalugg Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 488-576 (117.5 - 138.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 127-150 (30.5 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Lugia: 254-300 (61 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zekrom: 342-404 (100.2 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 171-202 (38.5 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Avalugg Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 488-576 (117.5 - 138.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 127-150 (30.5 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Lugia: 254-300 (61 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Note how the stats have little investment in defense. Thats how ridiculous the defense is.
It has a horrible defensive typing, is SR weak, and dies to any moderately strong special attack. Fucker's not viable.
Why is Charizard so low? Charizard-Y might not be viabe but Charizard-X hits a lot of the metagame pretty hard and runs a more effective DD set than Rayquaza. Great dual STAB coverage and speed tier. Nothing really wants to take a hit from it, even Groudon and Xerneas gets fried by Flare Blitz in the sun. It should be in B- imo not in the same rank as Arceus-Fire and Jirachi (who's only real purpose is to counter Xerneas)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 288-339 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 311-367 (91.2 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Zard X is outclassed by Ray since it has a larger SR weakness (b4 Mega Evolving), takes up a Mega slot (if you say this part of the argument is invalid, may I present to you Mega Gengar), and cannot set up too easily. Ray is Ground immune and can fight against Web teams while Zard X cannot do so after Mega Evolving. Ray also has Extremespeed and dgaf about Water Spouts due to Air Lock, which is infinitely better than anything Charizard can pull out of its ass in order to make fanboys happy.
At least he didn't say Zard is better than Ray bc Ray apparently "is shit cuz of Fairies".
Wasn't going to reply to this but whatever.. Idk why you have to be an ass about it, Charizard X has Roost, no Life Orb recoil, better speed and can outspeed Scarf Genesect at +1 and most of the metagame. Weather only last 5 turns this gen so Drizzle doesn't affect it much and it's not like I'm suggesting it for A rank I just think it seems kinda off in the same rank as Arceus Fire and Jirachi.
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
I can empathize with that... arceus-fire needs to move down is the solution imo :] garb mon, rachi and zard are better than it.
It's Blaziken and Zard you compare, not Ray and Zard.
Mega Blaze is superior to Zard X in almost every way so there is very little incentive using it outside specialized builds that really needs what it can do better, checking Thundurus-I, naturally making it decent on sticky webs, as well as having Roost.
Mega Blaze is superior to Zard X in almost every way so there is very little incentive using it outside specialized builds that really needs what it can do better, checking Thundurus-I, naturally making it decent on sticky webs, as well as having Roost.
You're forgetting something here bro, I'm not arguing Charizard for A rank, I'm just arguing it for B- or like Piexplode said move some of the C+ mons down such as Arceus-Fire and Gyarados seriously what does this even KO at +1?. Charizard X still has some perks over Blaziken such as being able to take priority better plus the stuff you mentioned. Probably dumb to mention but Charizard *can* be an emergency check to Xerneas. Before Mega evolving it can actually take a +2 moonblast from Modest Xerneas at full health and hit it back with a Flare Blitz dealing 38-45% which plus the hit Xerneas took during setting up should be enough to kill if not you can pick it off with Extremespeed or other priority move. Stealth Rock is annoying but with Defog everywhere is not that big of a problem as you might think.
With that logic why even rank all the C rank and down mons? if there's better Pokemon and @Canman92 this actually has nothing to do with fanboyism what a weak counter argument if you want to talk about favorites, I think Rayquaza is the coolest looking Dragon type.
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