I guess you battle against teams with Heracross quite often SePh. I don't battle over wifi anymore so Shoddy is where I do all my battling. I've seen Heracross probably 4 or 5 times so I guess the players I battled aren't great at predicting. Perhaps I am taking a big risk by sending in Yanmega. I'll revise who I switch in perhaps after battling more teams with Heracross. Regardless without one of his *true* counters, Heracross will hurt one of your pokemon severely with a wrong prediction.
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Thought on extra heracross counters
- Thread starter Sovereign
- Start date
MASQUERAIN!!! one of my favourites... 4x resist to CloseCombat and Megahorn with intimidate and hit it back with AirSlash for x4 SE. But then theres StoneEdge which Masquerain is 4x weak against. So maybe Masquerain can take on a choice-cross locked into CC or MH?
Interestingly intimidate Hitmontop with Bulk Up is a decent switch in onto Heracross, it resists both Megahorn/Stone Edge and EQ does very little damage to it with the right EV's (around 30%). Close Combat is the only real threat but seeing most of the time Hera is Choice item'd it can easily be predicted. The fact it resists Stealth Rock too does let it switch in more than once.
On top of that Hitmontop can also run Bulk Up and is certainly sturdy and strong enough to do so. I have seen Bulk Up variations of Hitmontop plain overpower Choicecross or the switch in after one or two Bulk Up.
Otherwise the big problem with Heracross in general is Stone Edge, Rock Slide is much easier to stop due to power issues and Ground + Fighting is redundant enough. SE just compliments it too well.
On top of that Hitmontop can also run Bulk Up and is certainly sturdy and strong enough to do so. I have seen Bulk Up variations of Hitmontop plain overpower Choicecross or the switch in after one or two Bulk Up.
Otherwise the big problem with Heracross in general is Stone Edge, Rock Slide is much easier to stop due to power issues and Ground + Fighting is redundant enough. SE just compliments it too well.
I use Toxicroak as my Heracross switch in... works excellently - Close Combat actually doesn't do as much as some people think it does when resisted, lol.
He takes like nothing from Megahorn too, lol.
Too bad he can't Aerial Ace.
He takes like nothing from Megahorn too, lol.
Too bad he can't Aerial Ace.
And how does that make Weezing better than Gliscor? A 206 Sp. Atk Fire Blast will never OHKO Heracross, and can also miss, whilst Gliscor's 226 Atk Aerial Ace always OHKOs and never misses.
No it wouldn't, as the Flinging Pokemon would still have to take a regular hit if faster, and be able to take a boosted hit if slower. Plus, if the burn is self-inflicted, this would be futile as the Orb would just reactivate at the end of that turn, or the turn after, I'm not sure.
Yes, Crobat can survive a Scarf Stone Edge. The question is, why should it ever have to when Heracross is faster and Crobat is supposed to switch into Heracross safely? Anyone saying Yanmega should consider battling someone who uses Stealth Rock and see how much it counters Heracross then.
I would be all for using a Nido as a Heracross counter if that didn't mean putting them on extremely defensive EVs, which takes away the only other reason to use them: hurt stuff with surprise. If they just become "Hera walls" without any other purpose why would you use them over Gliscor or Weezing?
I would be all for using a Nido as a Heracross counter if that didn't mean putting them on extremely defensive EVs, which takes away the only other reason to use them: hurt stuff with surprise. If they just become "Hera walls" without any other purpose why would you use them over Gliscor or Weezing?
Just want to say, using Dusknoir to counter Heracross and running Will-o-Wisp on said Dusknoir should be mutually exclusive on a good players team. Why give Heracross a way to come in and get a boost on your Heracross counter? With 76 Atk EVs, Dusknoir always 2HKO's a Choice item'd Cross (minimum of 50% damage on 4 HP versions). CB Night Slash does 52~61% damage to it so yah, but Pursuit does 30~35% if you stay in to kill it. Not the best counter out there, but it also has the benifit of walling (and killing depending on moveset) Electivire, Gyarados, Infernape, and such depending on your moves. Weezing is good and all, but you get to counter Heracross, Gyarados, and possibly Metagross with it's movepool. Gliscor gets Heracross, Tyranitar, Infernape, and some less used things. Gliscor is the best outright Heracross counter (because Roost > Pain Split for healing and Aerial is a OHKO compared to a 2HKO), but it might not be the best for your team.
tl;dr: Whether Weezing, Dusknoir, or Gliscor are the best Heracross counters depends on your team and what else you need countered.
Heracross can switch right into WoW, at full health, and it still dies. You can switch out of Night Slash. You can eat the Pursuit and Pain Split back up later, or you can stay in and let them decide if they want to sacrifice Heracross to take down Dusknoir. Fire Punch and WoW together leaves Dusknoir wide open to a lot of other pokemon and if you forgo WoW, Heracross will probably just switch out anyway if you don't burn it on the switch.
Running Fire Punch to turn a draw into a victory for Dusknoir isn't worth it, since that's basically the only use of it. Ice and Thunderpunch give far better coverage. Earthquake complements the other two punches, is its hardest hitting neutral attack, and hits would-be Infernape/Heatran trying to absorb WoW. Shadow Sneak has uses as a priority move. Even Focus Punch will OHKO its most dangerous switch-ins, Tyranitar and Weavile, and cripple the all-too-common Blissey. Seismic Toss or Night Shade are decent as a general catch-all attack. Fire Punch... doesn't even let Dusknoir kill Heracross (it already does), just lets it live in the process. Are you ungodly afraid of Forretress and Scizor?
Eh, when Noir is the only thing on your team that can take Guts Boosted-CB hits, it's worth it. For the record, I run FireP/ThunderP/EQ/Pain Split. Many Heracross don't switch out of Dusknoir and get nailed by Fire Punch. Also, most Heracross aren't at full health so losing a minimum of 50% damage hurts them alot.
For comparision purposes, would you use Weezing as your Heracross counter if it had Sludge Bomb/Wow/Thunder Bolt/Pain Split. It's the same logic, except Heracross doesn't have an SE move on Weezing, making it more important for Dusknoir to avoid burning Heracross.
For comparision purposes, would you use Weezing as your Heracross counter if it had Sludge Bomb/Wow/Thunder Bolt/Pain Split. It's the same logic, except Heracross doesn't have an SE move on Weezing, making it more important for Dusknoir to avoid burning Heracross.
Just wanted to comment on this...
To 2HKO a Pokemon with Leftovers, you need to do 106% minimum. Add up the max ranges of these - 36 + 70 and you get...exactly 106%. So basically you'll need Stealth Rock down or Gliscor harmed AND that critical hit...and this is all providing Stone Edge doesn't miss both times, which is a 64% chance in itself not counting Sand Veil if it's there.
Mekkah makes an excellent point with the 64 percent accuracy. Tyranitar and Gliscor can be used together nicely. Tyranitar is owned on paper by heracross's STAB'd attacks, but Tar can simply lure in heracross and switch to Gliscor.