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Thunder Wave OU Team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Deyuil, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Deyuil

    Deyuil

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Although unusual, I have a team based partially around the move Thunder Wave. Here it is. Also, sorry for the parenthesied names, I haven't had a chance to get their sprites yet, what with the team changing.

    [​IMG][​IMG] (Dragonite) (Haxorous) [​IMG] (Starmie)

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 180 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Iron Head
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn

    This Jirachi provides the first part of the thunder waving team. The usual lead, Jirachi uses Thunder Wave on the opponent right from the get-go and then set up stealth rock, or stealth rock/u-turn if the opponent is a ground type or a threat. Iron Head is Jirachi's STAB attack, and is easily abusable for the flinch hax almost all Jirachi sets are known for. The EV's are there to raise it's staying power, and the remaining EV's are put into attack and speed. Even though Jirachi has Thunder Wave, it still wants to be able to outspeed threats before they are paralyzed.

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    Simple, yet effective, this Celebi set aims to paralyze the opponent, use Leaf Storm to knock away any ground types that can take a tunder wave or water types that threaten this team. Hidden Power Fire hits steel types and other grass types for super effective damage, and recover is there so Celebi can stay alive longer. EV's are there to maximize on Celebi's bulk, and the Modest nature is there to strenghten Leaf Storm and Hidden Power Fire to knock down opponents.

    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    -Dragon Tail
    -Thunder Wave
    -Roost
    -Substitute


    This dragonite is made to finish the core paralyzation trio of the team. With multiscale, it is almost ensured to take the first hit, and paralyzed the opponent next. Dragon Tail is there to shuffle the opposing team, Roost to bring Dragonite back into Multiscale range and generally increase it's lifespan, and substitute to block status and stay alive longer. The EV's given focus on it's special bulk and speed.

    Haxorous @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Superpower
    -Swords Dance


    This haxorous takes full advantage of the parylisation the first tree pokemon provides to sweep. Outrage, Earthquake, and Superpower are all extremely powerful after a swords dance. The EV's raise attack and speed so that it gets even more powerful physical moves. Not a whole lot more to explain.

    Victini @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - V-create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Zen Headbutt
    - U-turn

    A physical Victini set. Most of the team is walled by pokemon such as Ferrothorn, whose typing gets past the majority of the team, and Blissey/Chansey, whose special bulk is massive and a true threat to the team by being a cleric. Victini uses it's choice scarf to outspeed a good amount of the opponent's unboosted pokemon, regardless of the paralyzation of the opponent or not. V-create is an immensly powerful STAB for Victini, Fusion Bolt helps against water types that could potentially wall half the team, Zen Headbutt is another strong STAB, and U-turn is for revenge killing the opponent and super effecting Psycics, such as the Lati twins, Alakazam or Espeon. The EV's raise it's speed and attack which, along with V-create and an Adamant nature, can tear holes through opposing pokemon that try and threaten the team.

    Starmie @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Thunderbolt
    - Trick
    - Rapid Spin

    This starmie can outspeed many pokemon wether or not the opponent is paralyzed much of the time. Surf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Psyshock are all very strong with specs on starmie. Ice beam hits grass types, thunderbolt hits water and flying, psyschock and surf are decent STAB moves.

    Direct threats not yet found.
  2. Deyuil

    Deyuil

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Following the rules, I've waited a day to bump. I don't see why noone is rating my team though ;-;. I did get some people from IRC, but I don't know if that counts.
  3. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    Hi

    I don't really understand this team. You built it to abuse Thunder Wave with its effect to slow opponents down but your team doesn't really benefit of it that much. You have two insanely fast attackers, which are Choice Scarf Victini and Choice Specs Starmie, who don't benefit of Thunder Wave at all since the only thing you might be outspeeding that you couldn't before is Tornadus-T for Starmie and maybe Chlorophyll abusers. Of course you have Choice Band Haxorus which works wonders when the enemy team is paralyzed, but it's your only member benefiting from the support of three other Pokemon? It's not even it's most effective set against slower teams. I think that's way too much set up for something only 1 member benefits of. I think you could definetly be running two different sets for two of your current team members. Haxorus should definetly run the Swords Dance variant. SD Haxorus is much more powerful than the already insane CB Haxorus, and has the freedom of changing moves, making it an excellent cleaner when the enemy's fast Pokemon are paralyzed and their team in general is slightly weakened. You could also drop the Choice Scarf from Victini and run a Choice Band instead. You already have Starmie for early game speed so your team won't really mind, and the power differential between Choice Scarf and Choice Band is gigantic. Basically, it's going to score a lot more OHKOes with V-Create now and you will be moving first even without Choice Scarf. It also makes a pretty good partner for Swords Dance Haxorus as it is able to break through Steel types very easily (except for Heatran which isn't a problem for Haxorus anyway) which are the best stop for Haxorus. With this your team benefits a lot more from paralysis I think, and you didn't even have to change some Pokemon.

    Then I think Xatu is really obsolete on your team. Xatu's Magic Mirror is nice and all to stop Stealth Rock, Spikes and other nuisances to get on your side of the field, but you're currently running the absolute best Rapid Spinner Game Freak ever put in the game, Starmie. Starmie can be a pretty effective Rapid Spinner even with a Choice Specs set because it also learns Trick. You'll need to drop Psyshock and Ice Beam for these though, but it's even safer against Entry Hazards than Xatu as it has some pretty horrible match ups against common Stealth Rockers (like Tyranitar), and is Pursuit weak, so something like Scizor can come in and their Hazarder will be able to set rocks on your side of the field easily, thanks to Scizor trapping Xatu with Pursuit. With Trick, Starmie can cripple something like Blissey or the ever annoying Ferrothorn while also helping your team and using Choice Specs' devastating power when needed. You should also run a Timid nature on Starmie as it allows it to outspeed common devastating threats like Terrakion. The loss of power is compensated by Choice Specs. You won't lose much in that trade. Then, I think you can run something in Xatu's place to help the team further. Dragonite is probably the best parashuffler there is and it resists nearly the same attacking types as Xatu, with added resists to Water which is always good, and no more Pursuit weakness. Dragonite is extremely bulky and can catch some of its common switch-ins with Thunder Wave, Dragon Tail them away and paralyze something else afterwards. It also gives your team a lot of bulk since Multiscale turns it into an absolute juggernaut. Xatu and Dragonite are able to check similar things and do similar stuff, except Dragonite does it better with an amazing Rapid Spinner like Starmie on the team.

    Cool team though,and here are the sets for Haxorus and Dragonite.
    Haxorus and Dragonite (open)

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Multiscale
    Careful
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    -Dragon Tail
    -Thunder Wave
    -Roost
    -Substitute

    [​IMG] @ Lum Berry
    Mold Breaker
    Adamant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Superpower
    -Swords Dance


    Good luck!
  4. Deyuil

    Deyuil

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Thank you for your post, I had never considered SD Haxorous. For Victini, I had slapped a Scarf on it before I had added Starmie. At the time, I had needed a speed demon. Changes made now, however. Thank you.
  5. Derpinator

    Derpinator

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    173
    I made a team centered around status a few weeks back and these are just some things i found worked better (for me at least) :
    1. Leading with Dragonite is a better idea so that you don't have to worry about hazards as much

    2. You should probably get a bulkier Spinner seeing as Starmie is easy to kill and many people are adequately prepared to kill it, I would recommend Tentacruel

    3. On Jirachi use Body Slam over T-Wave because, although it doesn't have a 100% chance to paralyze, it has a good enough chance and helps deal with Ground-types

    4. On both Dragonite and Jirachi, put 252 EVs on HP and Defences and the last 4 on Attack or Speed since their main purpose is to paralyze so they have to be able to take hits

    5. I would recommend a Shed Shell on Jirachi to avoid Magnet Pull, but its not too big of a deal

    6. You won't be able to paralyze you opponent's whole team, so I would recommend Dragon Dance over Swords Dance so your Haxorus has can outrun stuff that hasn't been paralyzed.

    7. Justna preference here, I'd say Brick Break over Superpower because you don't wanna be destroyed easily by neutral priority moves after Dancing so much. Also, after 2 or 3 DD, Brick Break can hit pretty hard and Superpower will just be overkill
  6. Deyuil

    Deyuil

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    At Derpinator, I have an answer to all your suggestions.

    1. I don't lead with Dragonite because Jirachi has served me better as a lead throughout battles. The few times I wouldn't lead with Dragonite, I send him out and u-turn away if there really is trouble

    2. I don't need a bulky Tentacruel, because after rapid spinning, I haven't found much use for one on this team. I need a sweeper that can still bring out a rapid spin, and Starmie, being very fast, can either rapid spin and die, or take out the opponent (or at least leave a huge dent).

    3. I know about the problems with grounds, but Celebi and Starmie are good at taking them out. Celebi is bulky and Starmie is fast, so I don't worry about paralyzing them.

    4. I've chosen that for Dragonite already, and for Jirachi he already has enough speed to paralyze the opponent, while the attack EV's power up iron head/u-turn.

    5. He has u-turn, and leftovers serves me better anyway.

    6-7. The times Haxorus can get in, he gets in to kill paralyzed opponents, or set-up all over ferrothorn. After a swords dance Superpower only takes him down to 1.5x Attack, while he is too frail to worry about the defense. Even at 1.5, I can still sweep or use another SDance. DDance does not give me as much power.
  7. shofly12

    shofly12

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    160
    Hey Deyuil!

    Cool team. I've also been playing around a lot with paralysis abuse, so, here's some thoughts. Generally, since you're using a SwiftNite, I would try to add more entry hazards (well. Spikes, since TSpikes are redundant). While SR is really all you need, the added damage is nice. Paralysis is also a status that naturally induces more switches. To this end, I might suggest using Ferrothorn over Celebi. The general pursuit weakness and ghost weakness found on the team isn't helping you at all and Ferrothorn provides key resistances while also giving T-wave support. I'm pretty sure the Standard set would be fine:

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP/ 88 Def/ 168 SpD
    Moves:
    -Spikes
    -Leech Seed
    -Thunder Wave
    -Power Whip

    Another things that's been brought up by others, you use paralysis support but you have two VERY speedy members of the team. I can understand why you would have Starmie, considering how Ground-Types completely ignore paralysis, and Starmie can quickly put them out of commission, but why Victini? If you already have paralysis support, you could easily go with something slower, but also physical. For example, Medicham, Conkeldurr (who gives you priority to boot), or a variety of other physical mons that can take advantage of your paralysis support that you worked so hard to get.

    Finally, you've taken Ground-types into consideration, but I wouldn't forget Natural Cure and Volt Absorb/Lightning Rod users. All of these will give a team that focusses on Paralysis problems. Opposing Starmie for instance, can hit 5/6 of your Pokemon for Super-effective coverage with only its Standard moves.

    I also see you team struggling against Steel Types under rain (which are commonly abused) since only Haxorus hits them for SE while everything else is pretty much walled to death by them.

    Hope this helped!
  8. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Magic, madness, heaven, sin
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

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    Hi! A lot of people pointed out above a problem with your team- you don't really have many pokemon that can actually use the speed loss of your opponent. Your team is also very pursuit weak, yet it still doesn't have any powerful attackers, nor any powerful walls. Your team is also extremely weak to Thundurus-T, who can't be paralyzed and just wrecks everyone with Specs SE moves. Thunder Wave should be used to support your team; it shouldn't be the main strategy. In order to achieve this goal, there are a few things I think you need to change.

    Your team is really weak to Tyranitar- not a single member on your team resists its attacks, and Celebi, Victini, and Starmie are all OHKO'd by Pursuit. Dragonite and Haxorus fall to repeated Stone Edges, while Jirachi falls to defense drops after multiple Crunches. Ttar doesn't care about paralysis either- it's already slower than every member of your team. In order to counter it, I suggest you replace Starmie with Offensive Donphan- it takes nothing from Ttar's attacks, and can reply with a STAB OHKO EQ. Donphan can also spin for Dragonite, whisking away Stealth Rock that would break its Multiscale. Paralysis also helps Donphan a lot, whose base 50 speed is pretty fast when the opponents whole team is paralyzed.

    [​IMG]
    Donphan @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    ~Rapid Spin
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Ice Shard
    ~Earthquake
    Donphan can spin and set rocks up- it also hits ground types hard with Ice Shard. It's a perfect member for the team.

    Speaking of Ground types, sturdy ones such as Gliscor or Mamoswine will be very problematic, especially because all of them are immune to paralysis. That's why Jirachi should be given Body Slam instead of Thunder Wave- so you can hit those Ground types and still paralyze them. Body Slam also hits Jolteon and Thundurus-T, crippling them for the rest of the match. Now that you have Donphan to set rocks, Jirachi should use Fire Punch instead of Stealth Rock- so you can hit Magnezone and Scizor hard. I think your Celebi's moveset also needs some tweaking- I would suggest Uturn and Perish Song instead of Recover and Hidden Power Fire. Celebi's primary goal should be to spread status- and using Perish Song to force the opponent out allows you to paralyze more pokemon. U-turn is great for scouting, which is definitely something you'd take advantage of. It also erases SpA drops from Leaf Storm while still being able to deal some damage.

    Victini also seems to be a pretty weak link in your team. It doesn't provide any helpful coverage that is not already taken care of, and only adds to your team's weakness to Pursuit and ground types. Since you also have two Dragons in your team, I would recommend Magnezone to replace Victini.

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Air Balloon
    36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
    Timid Nature
    ~Substitute
    ~Charge Beam
    ~Hidden Power Fire
    ~Thunderbolt
    Magnezone traps and KOs Scizor and other Steel types that will give your team a lot of trouble. Its low speed means that it will also benefit greatly from paralysis support. With Magnezone and two Dragons, you will form an effective core.

    Nice team, and good luck!

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