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Tirtouga LOCK AND MOVE ME

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Danilo, Jun 2, 2012.

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  1. Danilo

    Danilo
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    [Overview]

    <p>In a tier full of other cute Water-types, one may wonder, why use Tirtouga? Tirtouga's stats, ability, and movepool allow the cute turtle to be a great offensive and defensive threat. Tirtouga can utilize a Shell Smash set to cut through teams or a defensive set to wall a multitude of popular threats in Little Cup. But, like most cute Pokemon, Tirtouga is not without faults. Tirtouga's Rock typing gives it a weakness to the Fighting-types that run rampant in Little Cup. Tirtouga's middling Speed doesn't do it any favors as Tirtouga is outsped by all common Choice Scarfers, even after a Shell Smash boost. Finally, Tirtouga's Special Defense stat is rather mediocre; thus, Tirtouga relies heavily on Solid Rock and Eviolite to take special attacks. Don't let these faults prevent you from using Tirtouga though, as with the correct team support, Tirtouga will prove to be a valuable offensive or defensive asset to your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Aqua Tail
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Aqua Jet
    item: Splash Plate
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 84 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 180 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tirtouga makes for an excellent Shell Smash sweeper due to its high Attack and good movepool. Shell Smash is the crux of this set, boosting Tirtouga's high Attack stat to absurd levels, while boosting its mediocre Speed stat to where it can outspeed the unboosted Little Cup metagame. Aqua Tail may seem like an inferior Waterfall, but Aqua Tail used in conjunction with a Splash Plate OHKOs standard Mienfoo and Scraggy after a Shell Smash and Stealth Rock. Without Aqua Tail, Mienfoo and Scraggy can take a boosted Waterfall, and OHKO with Drain Punch or Hi Jump Kick if Sturdy is broken. Stone Edge is Tirtouga's complementary STAB move, hitting the likes of Larvesta and Ponyta without having to worry about a burn from Flame Body, as well as Chinchou and Lileep, both of whom can take a boosted Aqua Tail and retaliate with their super effective STAB move of choice. Aqua Jet rounds off the set, giving Tirtouga priority against Sucker Punch Murkrow and Sand Rush Drilburr.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As mentioned previously, do not use Waterfall on Shell Smash Tirtouga, ever. With Waterfall, Tirtouga will fall short on a number of important KO's, most notably Scraggy and Mienfoo. Maximum Attack investment is necessary to ensure that Tirtouga is hitting insanely hard after a Shell Smash boost. The Speed EVs give Tirtouga 21 Speed after a Shell Smash boost, thus outspeeding the unboosted Little Cup metagame. The rest of the EVs go into HP and Defense, making Tirtouga a good Murkrow check. Sturdy is utilized over Solid Rock to ensure that Tirtouga will never be OHKO'd before it uses Shell Smash, assuming that Tirtouga hasn't taken any prior damage. </p>

    <p>When you're not swapping out Aqua Tail for Waterfall, Tirtouga actually has a lot of flexibility with its moveset. Earthquake should be utilized in the last moveslot if you're using Tirtouga as a way to lure in and take out Croagunk, Tirtouga's most common check. Hidden Power Fire is useful for luring and taking out Ferroseed, another omnipresent Tirtouga counter.</p>

    <p>Since Tirtouga is heavily reliant on Sturdy to ensure that it can use Shell Smash with ease, teammates that remove entry hazards are essential partners. Staryu, the premier Rapid Spin user in Little Cup, can beat Misdreavus with a series of Hydro Pumps and Stealth Rock damage, and can guarantee a Rapid Spin for Tirtouga. Natu fears very little from most of the common Stealth Rock users, and can protect your team from status and entry hazards while maintaining momentum with U-turn. Other good Tirtouga partners are Pokemon that can deal with its most common counters. Tirtouga sets up on Ferroseed, Lileep, and Croagunk without fear, and can eventually OHKO the aforementioned Tirtouga checks and demolish your opponent's team. Mienfoo can get rid of Croagunk's Eviolite with Knock Off, and can OHKO Ferroseed and Lileep with Hi Jump Kick. Magnemite deals with Ferroseed and Lileep using Hidden Power Fire and Flash Cannon, respectively, and can dent Croagunk with powerful STAB Electric attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Solid Rock
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 244 HP / 16 Def / 12 SpA / 236 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although Tirtouga is generally thought of as an offensive powerhouse, Tirtouga can pull off a defensive role due to its good defensive stats, movepool, Solid Rock ability, and Eviolite. Scald is the crux of this set, ripping the hair out of your opponent as there physical attacker is crippled. Scald is dismembering the HP of Ferroseed and Bronzor, two common Specially Defensive Tirtouga switch-ins. Stone Edge is Tirtouga's complementary STAB move and hits incredibly with Tirtouga high Attack stat, even without Attack investment. Toxic cripples common Tirtouga switch ins, like Lileep and Chinchou without Rest. Knock Off rounds off the set, crippling defensive Pokemon who rely on Eviolite and offensive Pokemon who rely on Choice items. However, Protect is viable for protecting Tirtouga from Fake Out, random super effective Hidden Powers, and Knock Off.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread makes you a good special tank, despite the fact that Tirtouga's Special Defense stat isn't great; with maximum Special Defense investment, Eviolite, and Solid Rock, Tirtouga can take a lot of special attacks with ease. Since Tirtouga is a great lure for Ferroseed, Hidden Power Fire is a viable option over something in the last moveslot to deal serious damage to Ferroseed. Earthquake is useful for surprising Croagunk, another common Tirtouga switch-in. Rock Slide is a fine option as it has higher accuracy and more PP than Stone Edge, thus making up for the lack of power.</p>

    <p>Tirtouga's best teammates are ones that beats its normal counters. Misdreavus is a good partner as it covers Tirtouga's Fighting-type weakness. Misdreavus has the added benefit of ridding Tirtouga of status with Heal Bell while checking Mienfoo, one of Tirtouga's best counters. Larvesta is another good partner for its ability to check Mienfoo without Stone Edge and all Croagunk's; both of the aforementioned Fighting-types make quick work of Tirtouga. Ferroseed is a good teammate as it has near perfect defensive synergy with Tirtouga; Ferroseed takes on hard-hitting Water-types like Chinchou while Tirtouga beats the like of Larvesta and Murkrow. When using Ferroseed, be sure to use a sturdy Fighting-type resist as both Tirtouga and Ferroseed are weak to the plethora of Fighting-type moves that fly around Little Cup. Chinchou with Heal Bell is an okay partner as it allows Tirtouga to run Rest in the last moveslot. Finally, Hippopotas is a great partner for its ability to take on Fighting-type, and its actual ability, Sand Stream, which boosts Tirtouga's Special Defense in sand.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Tirtouga doesn't have many other somewhat viable sets that it can run. A mixed attacker with EVs 132 Atk / 252 SpA / 100 Spe, a Rash, and moves Hydro Pump, Shell Smash, Stone Edge, and Aqua Jet, is a somewhat viable, but doesn't accomplish something too different from the Shell Smash set listed prior. Tirtouga can acts a bulky rain supporter by replacing a move in the fourth moveslot with Rain Dance on the Specially Defensive set. A Curse boosting set may seem good, but it is still destroyed by Tirtouga normal checks, namely Croagunk and Ferroseed. Ancient Power may seem like a cool move to run, but its low base power makes the move nearly unviable. A Rock Polish set, however, is an interesting way to look at Croagunk; rather than forfeit your defenses with Shell Smash, you can outspeed offensive teams and do good damage with Tirtouga's powerful STAB moves; the drop in power is noticeable, though. Substitute is an interesting option, but it doesn't accomplish much a Substitute + Shell Smash set will still lose to all of Tirtouga's normal checks and counters.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Since Tirtouga's STAB moves don't complement each other incredibly well, it's not too difficult to beat Tirtouga. Ferroseed is probably the best overall counter to Tirtouga; not only does Ferroseed resist Tirtouga's STAB moves, but it can also break through Tirtouga's Sturdy ability with Bullet Seed, can set up entry hazards, and only fears the very rare Hidden Power Fire from Tirtouga. Croagunk is another excellent counter as it absorbs all Water-type attacks with Dry Skin, resists Stone Edge, and can defeat Tirtouga with Drain Punch and Vacuum Wave. Lileep is a good check to Specially Defense Tirtouga as it can absorb Scald, take little from Stone Edge, and can 2HKO with Energy Ball.</p>

    <p>Other Tirtouga checks are ones that can outspeed and hit it hard with powerful special attacks. Staryu outspeeds all unboosted Tirtouga and can knock down Shell Smash Tirtouga to its Sturdy with Thunderbolt. Choice Scarf Murkrow can take a boosted Aqua Jet and OHKO Hidden Power Grass. Choice Scarf Chinchou well always outspeed Tirtouga, even after a Shell Smash, and OHKO with Volt Switch or Thunderbolt; even Specially Defense Tirtouga is 2HKO'd by Thunderbolt while Tirtouga does a decent amount with Stone Edge.</p>
  2. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    [18:05:01] <&elevator_music> sir
    [18:05:07] <&elevator_music> mention protect on defensive tirtouga
    [18:05:35] <&elevator_music> its very good for scouting choice items, blocking fake out/hjk, and wearing down pokes from toxic/ss damage
    [18:06:07] <&elevator_music> also i know you mentioned it in oo, but mention toxic in ac on the defensive set
    [18:06:37] <&elevator_music> also im pretty sure defensive grass-types like shroomish/tirtouga can take a +2 stone edge
    [18:06:45] * Eo is now known as eOut
    [18:07:24] <%PoJ> Tirtouga isn't a grass type
    [18:07:34] <%PoJ> :p
    [18:07:37] <&elevator_music> oh he's not here
    [18:07:40] <&elevator_music> daniglo
  3. Danilo

    Danilo
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    implemented
  4. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    I was talking to Elevator Music about this, and we decided this needs some changes. The first set is fine, obviously, though you should probably mention Earthquake in the AC to hit Croagunk and Chinchou reliably, probably over Aqua Jet. Do the same for HP Fire...I don't think that should be in the OO as is my normal stance, but also as Shell Smash Tirtouga makes an excellent Ferroseed lure when it uses HP Fire. (0 +2 SpAtk Tirtouga Hidden Power Fire vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Ferroseed (+SpDef) : 83.33% - 100%, and no one runs that spread) However, state that these are not the greatest change, as Aqua Jet helps you get over faster scarfers, beat Murkrow, and kill Drilbur. Finally, add Rock Slide to the AC over Stone Edge in case the higher accuracy is more appealing.

    Our problems lie with the defensive set. Simply put, we don't like it. We were talking, and were wondering why max Attack is necessary. Max Attack doesn't actually do much at all...it can't OHKO Croagunk with Earthquake, it can't OHKO LIFE ORB Drilbur with Aqua Jet, it can't really do anything useful at all. Furthermore, Earthquake just honestly isn't worth the slash...the two Pokemon it is used against are not OHKOed and can retaliate with their own super effective STAB moves. We decided that set should look like...

    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Aqua Jet
    move 4: Knock Off / Protect
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Solid Rock
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 244 HP / 16 Def / 12 SpA / 236 SpD

    We feel that this set is a better indicator of defensive Tirtouga's strengths. It's a better sponge, and can do what this Tirtouga is meant to do...take special attacks. It can switch into Surfs and such pretty reliably, and actually check Misdreavus. It's a great special tank, and is significantly more useful than it was before.

    When you change that to this set, please include HP Fire and Earthquake in the ACs as well. Teammates look good. Please mention Ancient Power in the AC as well over Stone Edge and remove Ancient Power from the OO. Include a Toxic mention as well, and emphasize how you might want to use Protect if you have it. Scald / Stone Edge / Toxic / Protect, is what I mean.

    Remove mentions of HP Fire, Ancient Power, and Toxic from the OO. Add Rain Dance to the OO.

    Do all of this and QC 1/2.
  5. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Mention the possibility of Rest + Heal Bell (from Chinchou or Misdreavus) on the Defensive set. After you make this change and blarajan's changes,

    [​IMG]

    Quality Control Approved (2/2)
  6. Danilo

    Danilo
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    implemented. will write
  7. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Specifically enumerate why I should use Aqua Jet over Toxic on defensive sets (more than just IT BEATS DRILBUR) I'm not convinced...
  8. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    Actually he's right...an unboosted Aqua Jet is pretty weak. Toxic might be better, unless Sir can say otherwise.
  9. Danilo

    Danilo
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    written
    this took long :evan:
  10. kittenmay

    kittenmay

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    Amateur GP

  11. Danilo

    Danilo
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    gotta rewrite the support set since tirtouga gets stealth rock in b2
    new name is support
    ill update and rewrite tomorrow
    support set= qc 0/2
    DONT GP
  12. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    Why would you even start making a new analysis / set? We haven't even gotten to play in the new meta yet.
  13. Danilo

    Danilo
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    i thought you said on irc to just put Stealth Rock in the main set... Or maybe it was some other QC guy...
  14. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    Put this off for at least a week. Shell Smash is fine; we'll look at the support set with more experience with the new tier.
  15. Danilo

    Danilo
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    I FORFEIT THIS HERE ANALYSIS. Blarararararar has tested this a bunch and we've tlked about it so I think he should have it buttt it's not myyyy choice.
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