Pokémon Togekiss

[Olly]

My take on Togekiss is this:
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Bold
248 HP, 252 DEF, 8 SPD
Dazzling Gleam
Air Slash
Flamethrower
Roost

Togekiss has enough Special Attack and Serene Grace to make this not setup fodder imo. Togekiss actually walls quite a lot this generation.

I find Nasty Plot to be a wasted moveslot on Togekiss this generation. You never get a chance to sweep with it. You always get forced out eventually. Plus you miss the coverage you get from having 3 attacking moves.

This set actually beats Scizor. Scizor can never OHKO you, while you OHKO it in return 100% of the time. You also beat Tyranitar providing it is slower than you, which feels like every Tyranitar right now.

 

[reale]

I'm surprised that no one mention defog on her, here is my defog set:
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Modest
252 HP,252 SPA,4SPE
Air Slash
Defog
Nasty Plot
Roost

It's a mono attacking set , so that nasty plot is there. For anyone that resist flying, just defog and switch out.

 

[Mareep Sweep]

Nature: Modest
Ability: Serene Grace
Evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Item: Leftovers
- Water Pulse
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave
- Roost

This is a set that i created, it may look very similar to the ones that you usually see on a Togekiss but there is one difference: Water Pulse, which counting w/ serene grace has a 60% chance to confuse. This set has the utility of paraflinching and parafusion combined. The name that i gave it is Parafusionflinching. May sound a bit confusing but let me explain. This set consists of you paralyzing the opponent, confusing it and then starting the flinching. So u basically dont let the opponent move at all. Meaning that u can just Air Slash them to death while they flinch, are paralyzed and hurt them selves in confusion. Not on purpose but this also provides coverage against heatran, which completely walls togekiss (i know togekiss can learn Aura Sphere). I would greatly appreciate if you could reply and say a few flaws in this set, thank you very much for reading. NOTE: Im not a master in calculations or in evs so i apologize if they are not set up correctly.

 

[nyczxjay]

Nature: Modest
Ability: Serene Grace
Evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Item: Leftovers
- Water Pulse
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave
- Roost

This is a set that i created, it may look very similar to the ones that you usually see on a Togekiss but there is one difference: Water Pulse, which counting w/ serene grace has a 60% chance to confuse. This set has the utility of paraflinching and parafusion combined. The name that i gave it is Parafusionflinching. May sound a bit confusing but let me explain. This set consists of you paralyzing the opponent, confusing it and then starting the flinching. So u basically dont let the opponent move at all. Meaning that u can just Air Slash them to death while they flinch, are paralyzed and hurt them selves in confusion. Not on purpose but this also provides coverage against heatran, which completely walls togekiss (i know togekiss can learn Aura Sphere). I would greatly appreciate if you could reply and say a few flaws in this set, thank you very much for reading. NOTE: Im not a master in calculations or in evs so i apologize if they are not set up correctly.

Water Pulse only has 20% chance to confuse so it's only 40% with Serene Grace. And Water Pulse is extremely weak without STAB or rain. I also don't find Thunder Wave very effective on Togekiss anymore with Rotom-W everywhere, which your set is hard walled by. Overall, I don't think it's worth it but you do whatever you like.

 

[TheDoctor1]

anyone think about running super luck on togekiss and having something like this
item:razor claw or lens scope
then either 3 attacks and roost, or 2 attacks and roost and nasty plot

i know u only get up to 50% crits rate but thats far from bad, and with its natural spc def and roost is should be able to survive some hits and has a good chance of hitting back hard and even without a crit it wont be weak. plus since people expect the para flinch set people might switch in ground types letting u set up a nasty plot or just have an extra turn to attack

 

[Strykeypoo]

anyone think about running super luck on togekiss and having something like this
item:razor claw or lens scope
then either 3 attacks and roost, or 2 attacks and roost and nasty plot

i know u only get up to 50% crits rate but thats far from bad, and with its natural spc def and roost is should be able to survive some hits and has a good chance of hitting back hard and even without a crit it wont be weak. plus since people expect the para flinch set people might switch in ground types letting u set up a nasty plot or just have an extra turn to attack

Well, a 50% chance to do x1.5 damage is only a x1.25 over two turns. When you consider that you can run Life Orb for x1.3 damage without giving up Togeplane's defining trait, it becomes difficult to justify using Super Luck.

Now, if Togeplane got Focus Energy...it still wouldn't be worth using, because Nasty Plot gives you more damage while being just as reliable. The only way I can see Super Luck being usable is if you run Super Luck and Nasty Plot, to make use of Nasty Plot boosted crits. That's beyond gimmicky, though.

 

[TheDoctor1]

So i understand the math and that you are correct in what you are saying strykeypoo but i decided to try it anyway, and its not that bad.
I am using max hp max spc attack with spc attacking nature and holding razor claw. my move set is
roost
nasty plot
air slash
Dazzling gleam (edit: wrote moonblast before) (i just figured use both stabs didnt look into coverage yet)

its not the best thing but its really interesting and fun to try out. Also people switch in certain things expecting the thunderwave such as magic bounce pokes, or electric/ground pokes and on this switch u can either get the nasty plot boost or just attack. So not the best but it is decent and fun

 

[sidakarya]

Togekiss can't into Moonblast unfortunately.

Also, Razor Claw (or did you mean Fang?) is a pretty bad item. Leftovers exploits the flinchax better, since you get passive recovery while the opponent can't do anything. Actually, I personally wouldn't even use Air Slash in a Nasty Plot set, just Dazzling Gleam and Fire Blast since it gets you better coverage, but that's just my preference.

 

[TheDoctor1]

Togekiss can't into Moonblast unfortunately.

Also, Razor Claw (or did you mean Fang?) is a pretty bad item. Leftovers exploits the flinchax better, since you get passive recovery while the opponent can't do anything. Actually, I personally wouldn't even use Air Slash in a Nasty Plot set, just Dazzling Gleam and Fire Blast / Aura Sphere since it gets you better coverage, but that's just my preference.

I feel u didnt read my post. I am using super luck so i am using razor claw for the plus 1 crit stage. You are right I think it is dazzling gleam, whichever one is 80 base power. and I like flying it covers a lot of stuff.

 

[sidakarya]

Sorry about misreading. Still, with Super Luck and Razor Claw, it's only a 50% crit-chance. Life Orb is more reliable for more damage, and crits themselves no longer do double damage. Keep in mind, Hydreigon's crit-set is pretty gimmicky to begin with since, even with 100% crit chance, you have to set up or do paltry damage. He at least gets focus energy though, and Togekiss doesn't, so...

As for the ability, I'd still go with Serene Grace tbh, especially if you're using Air Slash. Flinchax-trolling is one of Togeplane's main niches, but even Fire Blast benefits from Serene Grace for the 20% burn chance. I'd only find Super Luck useful, if you're using Dazzling Gleam and Aura Sphere as your only attacks (and I'd personally use the three-attack set for that because Serene Grace is too good an ability)

 

[TheDoctor1]

Sorry about misreading. Still, with Super Luck and Razor Claw, it's only a 50% crit-chance. Life Orb is more reliable for more damage, and crits themselves no longer do double damage. Keep in mind, Hydreigon's crit-set is pretty gimmicky to begin with since, even with 100% crit chance, you have to set up or do paltry damage. He at least gets focus energy though, and Togekiss doesn't, so...

As for the ability, I'd still go with Serene Grace tbh, especially if you're using Air Slash. Flinchax-trolling is one of Togeplane's main niches, but even Fire Blast benefits from Serene Grace for the 20% burn chance. I'd only find Super Luck useful, if you're using Dazzling Gleam and Aura Sphere as your only attacks (and I'd personally use the three-attack set for that because Serene Grace is too good an ability)

I already know that the togekiss I am running is not the optimal togekiss, I just wanted to test it out and have found it very fun. I also am somewhat surprised at how well it has done for me. I also would not call crits paltry dmg, yes they only do 1.5x this gen but thats still a decent boost plus they ignore all stat boosts which can come in handy. I didnt know hydreigon has a crit set, I got the idea to try out super luck togekiss b/c of kingdra.

 

[Ping_Pong_Along]

I'm running a cleric build for Togekiss:

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Fire Blast
- Wish
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Bell

I like it quite a bit, but it can't take hits quite as well as I would have liked. Any suggestions for improvement?

 

[guustavooo]

I'm running a cleric build for Togekiss:

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Fire Blast
- Wish
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Bell

I like it quite a bit, but it can't take hits quite as well as I would have liked. Any suggestions for improvement?

I'm running a very similar build:

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Air Slash

Except I love Paraflinching. I know I'm completely walled by Rotom-W, Heatran and a lot of other mons, but it's not a sweeper so... as long as it can come in, Heal Bell or Wish for another team member, it has done its job.

 

[skies]

I'm in love with this set:
Togekiss @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 136 SDef / 32 Def / 224 SAtk / 76 Spd / 40 HP
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere

With Assault Vest, it reaches 495 Special Defense, which is equal to a fully invested 175 Base Special Defense. With Togekiss' great typing and reasonably great bulk, it can pull it off. I know it kind of misses Roost, but it still is very bulky. It can take hits like a boss:
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 180-212 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 234-276 (72.8 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 156-187 (48.5 - 58.2%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 126-150 (39.2 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 78-92 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- 95.6% chance to 4HKO
while irrelevant, I felt I needed to post this to prove just how bulky this thing is:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 284-336 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
It isn't even to be guaranteed a OHKO with one of the most powerful Special Attackers in the entire game! This are just a few examples, but this thing is freaking bulky.

 

[guustavooo]

I'm in love with this set:
Togekiss @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 136 SDef / 32 Def / 224 SAtk / 76 Spd / 40 HP
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere

With Assault Vest, it reaches 495 Special Defense, which is equal to a fully invested 175 Base Special Defense. With Togekiss' great typing and reasonably great bulk, it can pull it off. I know it kind of misses Roost, but it still is very bulky. It can take hits like a boss:
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 180-212 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 234-276 (72.8 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 156-187 (48.5 - 58.2%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 126-150 (39.2 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 78-92 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- 95.6% chance to 4HKO
while irrelevant, I felt I needed to post this to prove just how bulky this thing is:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 284-336 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
It isn't even to be guaranteed a OHKO with one of the most powerful Special Attackers in the entire game! This are just a few examples, but this thing is freaking bulky.

My only problem with that is that you not only dropped Roost/Wish but also Leftovers. It really can't resist that much without recovery.

 

[Ping_Pong_Along]

I'm running a very similar build:

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Air Slash

Except I love Paraflinching. I know I'm completely walled by Rotom-W, Heatran and a lot of other mons, but it's not a sweeper so... as long as it can come in, Heal Bell or Wish for another team member, it has done its job.

I'm not really a fan of ParaFusion. It can be rather effective, but it's not super reliable. I think TWave on this set is a good idea though. That way, you can out speed your opponent for the next turn. The only question is, would I drop Fire Blast or Dazzling Gleam?

 

[howabe]

Any point in considering Soft-Boiled (Gen 3 Tutor Move) over Roost at all? It should be legal on the first set in the OP if you take TW over NP for example.
Obviously there's benefits to both keeping and losing your Flying typing while you recover, but considering the current meta, is there one of the two that's more likely to be beneficial?

 

[TKGriffiths]

I'm in love with this set:
Togekiss @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 136 SDef / 32 Def / 224 SAtk / 76 Spd / 40 HP
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere

With Assault Vest, it reaches 495 Special Defense, which is equal to a fully invested 175 Base Special Defense. With Togekiss' great typing and reasonably great bulk, it can pull it off. I know it kind of misses Roost, but it still is very bulky. It can take hits like a boss:
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 180-212 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 234-276 (72.8 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 156-187 (48.5 - 58.2%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 126-150 (39.2 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 78-92 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- 95.6% chance to 4HKO
while irrelevant, I felt I needed to post this to prove just how bulky this thing is:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 136+ SpD Assault Vest Togekiss: 284-336 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
It isn't even to be guaranteed a OHKO with one of the most powerful Special Attackers in the entire game! This are just a few examples, but this thing is freaking bulky.

Not that I think Assault Vest Togekiss is good at all but surely Body Slam has got to be on such a set. It's basically a status move and allows you to still Paraflinch.

Those calcs are kind of irrelevant IMO, it still can't switch into Nasty Plot Lucario because +2 Flash Cannon OHKOs, it still can't take a specs thunderbolt after stealth rock, I'd guess you'd still be 2HKOd by Ice Beam even with no Assault Vest and no investment, Heliolisk is irrelevant, Togekiss can sponge uninvested Volt Switches anyway, Kyurem-W is Uber and still OHKOs 25% of the time and Stealth Rock guarantees it.

It just doesn't make sense to me to Assault Vest a poke with such a great range of status moves.

 

[Edgar81539]

Not that I think Assault Vest Togekiss is good at all but surely Body Slam has got to be on such a set. It's basically a status move and allows you to still Paraflinch.

Those calcs are kind of irrelevant IMO, it still can't switch into Nasty Plot Lucario because +2 Flash Cannon OHKOs, it still can't take a specs thunderbolt after stealth rock, I'd guess you'd still be 2HKOd by Ice Beam even with no Assault Vest and no investment, Heliolisk is irrelevant, Togekiss can sponge uninvested Volt Switches anyway, Kyurem-W is Uber and still OHKOs 25% of the time and Stealth Rock guarantees it.

It just doesn't make sense to me to Assault Vest a poke with such a great range of status moves.

If you want paraflinching so bad, you can always use Secret Power. 30% chance of paralizing on buildings.

 

[dr00]

If you want paraflinching so bad, you can always use Secret Power. 30% chance of paralizing on buildings.

why use secret power when body slam has 15 more BP?

 

[Edgar81539]

why use secret power when body slam has 15 more BP?

Because to get a Body Slam Togekiss you have to tutor it from RSE, while Secret Power can be bred from Audino this generation. Also, there's no point on trying to damage your opponent with 55 base uninvested attack. Secret Power is just there for the paralysis chance.

 

[TKGriffiths]

Any point in considering Soft-Boiled (Gen 3 Tutor Move) over Roost at all? It should be legal on the first set in the OP if you take TW over NP for example.
Obviously there's benefits to both keeping and losing your Flying typing while you recover, but considering the current meta, is there one of the two that's more likely to be beneficial?

That's a good question, but I think Roost is better since it adds no new weaknesses but removes weaknesses to Rock, Ice, Electric. You don't really care about Fighting or Bug since you'll still resist them anyway, you do become vulnerable to ground moves but I don't think that's very relevant since they'll rarely be aimed at Togekiss.

 

[dr00]

Because to get a Body Slam Togekiss you have to tutor it from RSE, while Secret Power can be bred from Audino this generation. Also, there's no point on trying to damage your opponent with 55 base uninvested attack. Secret Power is just there for the paralysis chance.

i mean of course it's not going to do much damage anyway, but i mean why purposefully do less damage? or were you just offering an alternative for people battling on WiFi and won't necessarily have access to body slam?

sorry if i misunderstood.

 

[Anthinus]

i mean of course it's not going to do much damage anyway, but i mean why purposefully do less damage? or were you just offering an alternative for people battling on WiFi and won't necessarily have access to body slam?

sorry if i misunderstood.

Secret Power is more easy to get on Toge than Body Slam. So yes, is an excellent alternative to WiFi battling. The only reason you'll use SP over BS (if you have access to both moves) is if you want to run Nasty Plot on the set. Because BS is a 3 Gen tutor move and Nasty Plot was introduced as an egg move for Toge in the 4 Gen.

 

[dr00]

Secret Power is more easy to get on Toge than Body Slam. So yes, is an excellent alternative to WiFi battling. The only reason you'll use SP over BS (if you have access to both moves) is if you want to run Nasty Plot on the set. Because BS is a 3 Gen tutor move and Nasty Plot was introduced as an egg move for Toge in the 4 Gen.

this whole conversation has been in context with the assault vest set posted a bit earlier on this page. i know that body slam has some conflicts with certain illegal movesets, and that's really want i was asking for (i probably should have made that more clear)

the set posted didn't seem to me that it had any conflicting ability or movelist, but maybe i missed something, hence my question.

bringing back to the original body slam suggestion, tri-attack would probably better overall since it does more damage and has more status capability (and of course body slam / secret power are overwhelmingly a superior option for WiFi as it's not very common). of course, if the ultimate goal is paraflinch over general status, body slam (or secret power) will do this more consistently.

and brining it back to the original suggestion, (imo) assault vest really shines on bulky pokemon without access to reliable recovery (and togekiss has roost and wish) or have it in the form of a move such as drain punch or giga drain (which togekiss doesn't have). i'm not discounting the set as this is just pure theorymon on my part, but i just feel that the item itself doesn't really lead me to believe that togekiss is the right kind of pokemon to use it.