SM Ubers Top LEL(e) Offense

[Edgar]

Top LEL(e) Offense

Hello all.

My name is Edgar, I used to be a prominent Ubers player and after being inactive for about a year and a half I decided to give this SUMO Ubers thing a try. I usually post RMTs of stuff that does not necessarily have any solid accomplishments but is something I really like and that I want to share with people.

For my first teambuilding challenge I decided to take on Psychic Terrain as I've seen many attempts of it just crumble because no one uses the right formula, well, today I do not bring you a perfect Psychic Terrain team but I dare to say this is the best one you'll find right now. As opposed to recurring to the obvious balance I decided to take a much more offensive approach as the main pokemon that abuses Psychic Terrain is Deoxys-A and the pokemon that sets it up aka Tapu Lele have no defensive synergy with anything in Ubers whatsoever, I think that's what people are doing wrong, trying to fit stuff on balance that just isn't balance stuff, not to mention the constant need of running priority on bulkier teams because of Xerneas, Deoxys itself and Pheromosa. And yeah, that's why I decided to build a more offensive Psychic Terrain team.

Teambuilding process:

I decided to start off with these 3, Lele is obvious as it is recquired to set up the terrain and Deoxys is the pokemon to abuse it, Pheromosa is the odd one of the 3 though, I thought using both Pheromosa and Deoxys-A on the same team was a cool idea as they are both fast, strong and fragile. Those 3 are he main focus of the team and should not be replaced under any circumstances.

Just like many hyper offense teams, this one needed a lead Stealth Rock user. The lead choice was very hard, several mons were looked into, from Mamoswine to Focus Sash Tyranitar but ultimately, Excadrill was chosen, Excadrill fits on this team perfectly, but I'll get to that later.

For the 5th slot I wanted a Dark-type, a Dark-type would complement the team very well on both offense and defense as there is only one offensive mon that I fear and that's Choice Scarf Lunala. Thanks to its raw power, great bulk, speed and access to Taunt, Yveltal blends in perfectly.

Yeah, to some of you must look kinda obvious that I am using a Primal Groudon, however, it wasn't my first choice as a last Pokemon, I first had Geomancy Xerneas as it abused the fact that there was no priority on the field, escaping checks like Scizor, Lucario and Extremekekker Arceus, however, I looked at the team and asked myself "If my opponent lead Salamence on my Excadrill, would that 6-0 me?", the answer to that was yes, Groudon helps a little bit with that and that's why I decided to go with it.

Anyway, without further ado, let's go over the individual analyses:

@ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock

As I mentioned in the teambuilding process, Excadrill had everything I wanted for my lead Stealth Rock user, I liked Excadrill a lot because it has access to Iron Head, allowing to beat Pokemon like Shuckle and Geomancy Xerneas thinking it has a free setup as most lead Excadrills tend to run Toxic as opposed to Iron Head. Mold Breaker is also really helpful just in case you find a Mega Sableye and also, thanks to Excadrill being slower than Arceus it is guaranteed that Stealth Rock are going to remain on the field when Excadrill dies. As for the other moves, Earthquake is a strong STAB move that allows it to 2hko stuff like Primal Groudon and Rapid Spin allows me to get rid of Sticky Webs, which are annoying for this team. EVs are standard as I just want Excadrill to do as much damage as possible to other leads and it already outspeeds Smeargle and Shuckle so I am allowed to run Adamant.

@ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 40 Def / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Taunt
- Psychic Terrain

To be honest I wasn't completely sure about this mon's viability in the tier as I've seen many attempts of teams with it fall apart like Furai's record in SPL 5. While I tried the mon myself in the past there was never a set that convinced me or that made me say "yeh I like this mon", except this one. I decided to try and use a Z-move on Tapu Lele as Life Orb didn't convince me and to my surprise Z-move Psychic fits Lele perfectly as it allows it to evaporate a lot of things or leave the survivors with little HP left, allowing Pheromosa to revenge kill and start a sweep. The EV spread was made just so it outspeeds 252+ Primal Groudon, Timid Lele still hits pretty hard but I kinda bothers me that I can't run Modest the leftovers were added to the Defense stat as that would allow it to live a Shadow Claw from Jolly Life Orb Extremekekker Arceus (252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 40 Def Tapu Lele: 226-268 (80.4 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO FUCK OFF PEARL). As for the moves, I decided to go with Psychic for STAB as it does more to stuff like Xerneas, Groudon and Arceus-Water, Moonblast is pretty important too as it allows you to hit pokemon like Yveltal, Tyranitar and Sableye who would wall you otherwise. Now here is my favorite thing about Tapu Lele: It gets Taunt, I would consider this move a must-run on Lele as it allows it to stop mons like Xerneas from sweeping you, not only that but, being faster and having access to Taunt allows Lele to stop Arceus from using Defog to get rid of the hazards, Taunt also forces some mons to switch out, allowing it to hit something really hard with Psychic or Shattered Psyche. As for my last move, I was very unsure of what I wanted to run, I went back and forth between Psychic Terrain and Shadow Ball, and although Shadow Ball hits Solgaleo and Lunala I decided Psychic Terrain was better since I wouldn't be as restricted as to be forced to switch out whenever Terrain was about to run out and give my opponent a free turn. With all that said, Lele has become my favorite mon on the team, this set works so well and I've gotten attached a bit to it.

Shattered Psyche Calcs

252 SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon in Psychic Terrain: 331-391 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 168 HP / 24 SpD Primal Groudon in Psychic Terrain: 456-537 (119 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Psychic Terrain: 367-433 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Psychic Terrain: 367-433 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Psychic Terrain: 436-514 (99.7 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

@ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Psyshock
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off
- Ice Beam

Deoxys-A has always been a tough mon to play around but with Psychic Terrain implemented this pokemon became an absolute nightmare, let alone the fact that Psycho Boost hits even harder, but the fact that it cannot be hit by priority moves is what buffed this pokemon the most as priority is often a key fact when playing against Deoxys. I decided to go with max Sp.Atk with a Rash nature as I wanted it to hit as hard as possible, as Deoxys is already outsped by the most common Choice Scarf users makes me believe Naive is not worth running. Psyshock might seem like a huge waste of a move slot but it is extremely useful when you don't want to click Psycho Boost on a 40% mon or so. Psycho Boost is a very standard attacking move on Deoxys as it allows it to OHKO a lot of mons under Psychic Terrain, Ho-Oh among them. Knock Off is useful for hitting Solgaleoo and Lunala and obviously to get rid of Pokemon that rely a lot on their item to function i.e. Aegislash or Lugia, and Ice Beam is nice for hitting Salamence, Zygarde and Yveltal.
​

@ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Poison Jab​

While Pheromosa doesn't have as many tools as Deoxys-A does for a fast wallbreaker Pheromosa has other perks, one of them being able to naturally outspeed Deoxys-A and another being its ability Beast Boost, thanks to this ability is able to turn into a very solid late game cleaner, getting an Attack Boost after an easy kill. Just like Deoxys-A, Pheromosa abuses the fact that priority can't be used, allowing it to comfortably OHKO mons like E-killer, Mega Lucario and Deoxys itself. I decided to go with +Atk nature on this team, although I believe +Speed nature has other uses I think +Atk nature fits this team the most as I want as once it gets a boost during the late game it's most likely game over for my opponent. While I think Pheromosa's coverage is very limited I also think it gets everything it needs: A way to hit Salamence and a way to hit Xerneas, Poison Jab and Ice Beam do these things respectively. High Jump Kick is a great STAB move, although some people like Low Kick more, I prefer High Jump Kick for greater damage and U-Turn allows Pheromosa to get momentum on predicted switch on a Ghost-type and allow Yveltal to capitalize on it.

@ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Dark Pulse
- Foul Play
- Taunt

Yveltal got MAD buffs in SM due to the absurd amount of Psychic-types, not to mention it is immune to Prankster moves so Klefki ain't really doing much anymore, one of the perks that Yveltal got in SM is being able to check Lunala, which is one of the few mons that is actually annoying for the team, Yveltal also happens to have perfect offensive synergy with Pheromosa as I mentioned earlier, being able to roast the Ghost-types that hard wall it. As for the EVs, I decided to just run full offensive with no bulk, I just figured I should be outspeeding neutral speed nature Solgaleo and Lunala as well as Defog Arceus just so I can stop them from Defogging. The moves are something you normally see on offensive Yveltal, Oblivion Wing is very useful with Taunt as you can just Oblivion Wing Defog Arceus to death while recovering HP and easily tank Judgments. Dark Pulse nukes, Foul Play is useful for SD Arceus that wants to set up, Arceus-Ground in particular is a bit annoying and Taunt stops Xerneas from setting up Geomancy and Arceus from using Defog.

Not Him @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 248 Atk / 24 SpD / 68 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance

Groudon was not my first pick for a late game sweeper or just a 6th mon in general. At first I had Xerneas but after analyzing some stuff, Choice Scarf and Z-Geomancy Xerneas and Mega Salamence looked really annoying and thus I decided to use a bulky Double Dance Groudon set to tank those hits. EVs allow Groudon to take a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas after 1 Stealth Rock Switch-in, they also allow it to outspeed Jolly Choice Scarf Landorus-T at +2. Moves on it are pretty common, Precipice Blades nukes, Stone Edge covers Flying-types and both Swords Dance and Rock Polish are used to set up late game, although a Groudon sweep is uncommon, it's still something that comes in handy, let's not forget that if Terrain is up it can't get revenge killed by Arceus' Extremespeed or Giratina's Shadow Sneak.


​

Pokemon I don't like facing:

It's annoying as I have no way of OHKO it, I can't Taunt it and hard walls Pheromosa and Deoxys-A. In other words: It completely ruins my momentum. In combination with a Flying-type it can escape Groudon handling it.

Choice Scarf Xerneas is annoying as if I'm facing a Xerneas with Yveltal on my side of the field I have to stay in and Taunt (if it's at full that is). It always outspeeds Pheromosa since I'm not running +Speed nature too.

I normally switch Yveltal in but Scarf ruins my momentum.





Final Words:

This team is really fun and it's the only offense team I've liked so far, as I said I think Lele teams should be as HO as possible, not balanced. If you look at it as offense I think Lele is a nice branch of it and I'm looking forward to seeing variations of it. I like SM so far, I don't think there's anything so far that I consider incredibly stupid or unbearable so far. I think this generation looks very promising.

Shoutouts

Jirachee
CBB
TDK
Mizuhime
bro fist
Funk
FLCL
Shake
BKC
Teal
Jayde
BLINGAS
Rewer
Pearl
rozes
McMeghan
Ginku
Nails
Coconut
poek
sg
Nayrz
Mr.378
Rich aka InertFury
Sour

SUS Boys:
BLUFF GOD OLI
Tony
Pomman
Astounded
Hack

Importable

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock

Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 40 Def / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Taunt
- Psychic Terrain

Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Psyshock
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off
- Ice Beam

Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Poison Jab

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Dark Pulse
- Foul Play
- Taunt

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 248 Atk / 24 SpD / 68 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance

 

[Fireburn]

Cool team dude. I think it's worth considering Terrain Extender > Psychium Z on Tapu Lele to help stave off priority attacks longer since this team kind of gets bodied by SD Arceus w/ ESpeed (mostly EKiller) once Top Lel goes down and the terrain wears off. The strong attack is nice but you have Taunt to stop setup attempts and having more turns to abuse Deo-A and Pheromosa might be preferable. This also frees up the last moveslot on Top Lel which could let you run Shadow Ball or Nature's Madness instead to help weaken enemy Psychic checks better.

Sand teams look like a bigger problem since Tyranitar can Pursuit trap Deoxys-A/wall Yveltal and you don't really have a switch into LO Excadrill - if PDon goes down early your team kind of just falls over. One potential fix is to run Focus Blast on Yveltal instead of Foul Play - Yveltal generally lures TTar excellently and this can eliminate the need to run a Fighting move on Deoxys-A. Killing it early should let you clear sand quickly and ease the matchup against those teams. This might make Ho-Oh somewhat more difficult to handle but as long as you keep SR up you should be fine, Defoggers will struggle hard against this team. Focus Blast still does a lot to EKiller and Groundceus is the least likely of the three main SD Arcs to use ESpeed so I don't think you'll have too many issues there.

I also think you need Rock Tomb > Iron Head on Excadrill since lead Salamence can still set up on it and PDon's Stone Edge won't OHKO iirc. If Mence is able to get the lead matchup against Drill you'll be forced to sac PDon which is also the only mon you have that can take hits from Xerneas which isn't good. Granted you can just not lead Excadrill against Salamence but Rock Tomb gives you the freedom to do so which I think is important. Earthquake does enough to Xerneas to put it into PDon's KO range, or if its already been weakened some you can just Rock Tomb it once and then finish it off with Deoxys-A or Pheromosa.

I don't know if the Scarf Xerneas problem can be fixed without giving up something important here. You'd probably have to run something like Work Up Solgaleo/Hypnosis Lunala @ Psychium Z to have an extra defense against it, or use a slightly less squishy offensive mon like CM Psychium Z Mewtwo > Deoxys-A but that might not be worth giving up one of your fast attackers and Scarf Xerneas is rare in SM regardless.

Great job, team looks really fun to use. :]

 

[Minority]

I mostly agree with Fireburn's suggestions here, but I feel as though this team has other problems that have been overlooked.

The opposing RP P Don matchup is a real struggle. There are multiple situations where an opposing offense can get P Don to +2, and at this point you have nothing that can check it. I also agree with Fireburn that EKiller and Mega Mence can be potentially problematic, but these can be mitigated with the minor changes he proposes and smart playing. The RP P Don issue can't however.

I attribute this to the fact that this team forgoes the utilization of Mega Salamence and the fact that running priority clashes with the premise of Lele HO. P Don is just too bulky for your team to completely deny setup, and then you have no way to revenge it. Right now many HO arrangements struggle to cover RP P Don well, especially ones with Mega Gengar, but normally HOs are able to utilize Arceus to help cover this issue. Lele HO actually kinda struggles to justify an Arceus, thus limiting your options.

I'm not sure how a Lele HO covers these problems without using a Mega Salamence. Maybe it's possible to get something to work with like Arceus-Ground, but I'd say the most consistent Lele HO at the moment integrates Mega Salamence well and is able to perform significantly better against these three offensive threats. I agree with the call that Tapu Lele balance / stall isn't really feasible or reasonable. As you already noted Scarf mons are also kinda annoying, but I feel as though this is unavoidable due to the choice of Tapu Lele + Deoxys-A + Pherm. Defensive teams that can hold their own against Deo-A rather well could also be a challenging matchup, for example a strong Alolan-Muk balance.

Putting all my thoughts together here I'm kinda surprised how negative it all comes off. The team itself manages to fit just about everything it needs, and has a number of potential ways to advance against defensive teams. I can also definitely see what you're going for with the Psychium Z Tapu Lele. As a frequent user of Tapu Lele HOs I hope I was able to provide an alternate perspective. Thanks for sharing!

~

 

[InertFury]

Really fun team as always, Edgar. I’ve enjoyed playing it on the ladder!

One thing that I’ve found to be troublesome from my experience using your team is opposing Pheromosa. If it ever can land a kill and start getting the ooltra boosts, the team doesn’t really have much for it. If that were to happen, your best chance is to hope that you win a speed tie with your own Pheromosa assuming they’re +atk. I think that’s a threat that is definitely worth noting and looking into further.

In regards to some of the other suggestions, I do like what Fireburn suggested for Excadrill. I believe that’s a fine idea for keeping lead Mega-Salamence from just flat out plowing through your team. However, I feel like if you remove Psychium Z for Terrain Extender, your RP PDon weakness just becomes that much bigger. Taking that away from Lele means PDon can always come back with vengeance later as opposed to getting obliterated by Shattered Psyche. As said, you’ll need to properly play around it, but if you can execute properly, you should be fine.

Probably one of my favorite SM teams to use so far. Thanks for posting, yedgar! :]

 

[Edgar]

Cool team dude. I think it's worth considering Terrain Extender > Psychium Z on Tapu Lele to help stave off priority attacks longer since this team kind of gets bodied by SD Arceus w/ ESpeed (mostly EKiller) once Top Lel goes down and the terrain wears off. The strong attack is nice but you have Taunt to stop setup attempts and having more turns to abuse Deo-A and Pheromosa might be preferable.

What does that mean. I think Psychic Terrain is better as I stated before, it avoids having to switch to set it up again, Solgaleo is not that big of a threat, it literally does nothing. Shattered Psyche allows me to avoid the mindgames vs RP Pdon, I can just OHKO it instead of risking a 5050 between Precipice Blades and RP.

Sand teams look like a bigger problem since Tyranitar can Pursuit trap Deoxys-A/wall Yveltal and you don't really have a switch into LO Excadrill - if PDon goes down early your team kind of just falls over. One potential fix is to run Focus Blast on Yveltal instead of Foul Play - Yveltal generally lures TTar excellently and this can eliminate the need to run a Fighting move on Deoxys-A. Killing it early should let you clear sand quickly and ease the matchup against those teams. This might make Ho-Oh somewhat more difficult to handle but as long as you keep SR up you should be fine, Defoggers will struggle hard against this team. Focus Blast still does a lot to EKiller and Groundceus is the least likely of the three main SD Arcs to use ESpeed so I don't think you'll have too many issues there.

ok? I don't want to miss and get Stone Edge'd + most Tyranitars I've seen use Chople anyways, sure Ttar hard walls Yveltal and then what. I've played over 200 battles overall and I haven't seen anyone use Ttar+Exca once, come on dude. And I mean, there's a Pdon which can always set up RP vs Ttar lol

I also think you need Rock Tomb > Iron Head on Excadrill

Now, this is a good suggestion and I'm strongly considering it, thanks. And thanks for giving a read, means a lot :]

I mostly agree with Fireburn's suggestions here, but I feel as though this team has other problems that have been overlooked.

The opposing RP P Don matchup is a real struggle. There are multiple situations where an opposing offense can get P Don to +2, and at this point you have nothing that can check it. I also agree with Fireburn that EKiller and Mega Mence can be potentially problematic, but these can be mitigated with the minor changes he proposes and smart playing. The RP P Don issue can't however.

When and where does Pdon set up outside of having a free switch into Pheromosa, which in in any case it would be at +1 Atk after getting a kill and the calc would be:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 352-417 (91.9 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO and with SR up it's a roll in my favor lol, not to mention Pheromosa is hardly coming in mid-game if it isnt for U-Turn purposes.

I attribute this to the fact that this team forgoes the utilization of Mega Salamence and the fact that running priority clashes with the premise of Lele HO. P Don is just too bulky for your team to completely deny setup.

How is Groudon too bulky for me to stop it, literally everything bar a mon that realistically is never gonna be at +0 against it has a way to stop it from setting up, either OHKOing it or fast Taunting it, come on dude, think.

I agree with the call that Tapu Lele balance / stall isn't really feasible or reasonable. As you already noted Scarf mons are also kinda annoying, but I feel as though this is unavoidable due to the choice of Tapu Lele + Deoxys-A + Pherm. Defensive teams that can hold their own against Deo-A rather well could also be a challenging matchup, for example a strong Alolan-Muk balance.

Glad we agree on this. Thanks for your comments, however, I have an observation myself, I notice you have the TR badge but all I think you did was post conclusions from looking at the team from a glance, from what I can tell you didn't read most (if not anything) of the key information about the Pokemon, a lot of your points in your post seemed very ignorant to me and I obviously can't tolerate that, that's why I used this tone. I also didn't feel like you were trying to help, just posting criticism. Have a nice day :]

 

[Minority]

There are ways to get P Don in against Pherm outside of Pherm just getting a KO: double switches and turners are examples of this. P Don sets up on busted Sash Exca and it also sets up on chipped P Don, or if your opponent is able to force it out. If they have a Xern in back you can't risk being outsped and KOed since this team relies almost entirely on P Don to keep Xern in line. In such a situation, you may end up having to chose between being swept by P Don or being swept by Xern.

P Don also sets up on -2 Deo-A and consumed Psychium Tapu Lele. You can just never click Psycho Boost or z move when your opponent has what you suspect to be a RP P Don, but now the problem becomes even more clear. RP P Don's very existence extensively limits your options since you can't afford to let it setup ever.

It's fair to say that RP P Don has ways to setup against this team, and when you have nothing that can check it outside of hoping for SE / P Blades misses, that's a weakness this team has. Do you autolose the RP P Don matchup? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean it isn't threatening. More importantly, Tapu Lele HOs have options that are able to reduce these weaknesses.


I want to improve this team and I've built several Tapu Lele HOs. This is why I took the time and effort to post, but instead personal jabs were taken at my role as a TR. You may not agree with how I structure my rates, but it's ridiculous to say things like "I didn't read" or "just posting criticism". Problems with the team were identified, the causes and reasons for these problems were elaborated on, and suggestions were offered in order to fix them. Team rating does not get more straightforward than this, yet nothing I said was taken to heart.

I'm sorry that my post came off as having an attitude. My writing style tends to be cold and I did my best to lighten things up at the end of my rate without saying anything phony or forced. But, there comes a point where things begin to be unreasonable. Both Fireburn and I identified legitimate areas of concern, elaborated on them, and offered suggestions, yet we're met with denial and a snarky reply. This makes it seem as though the purpose of sharing this team wasn't to get feedback or to discuss options for Tapu Lele HO, but rather to get a pat on the back from everyone. If rates aren't wanted here it would have been nice to know ahead of time since then I wouldn't have posted.

 

[Edgar]

There are ways to get P Don in against Pherm outside of Pherm just getting a KO: double switches and turners are examples of this. P Don sets up on busted Sash Exca and it also sets up on chipped P Don, or if your opponent is able to force it out. If they have a Xern in back you can't risk being outsped and KOed since this team relies almost entirely on P Don to keep Xern in line. In such a situation, you may end up having to chose between being swept by P Don or being swept by Xern.

Yeah, I mean, I think it depends how you play that matchup most of the time. I'm not dismissing that it is a threat but you said Groudon is too bulky for me to handle, surely you'll understand how that was misinterpreted.

P Don also sets up on -2 Deo-A and consumed Psychium Tapu Lele. You can just never click Psycho Boost or z move when your opponent has what you suspect to be a RP P Don, but now the problem becomes even more clear. RP P Don's very existence extensively limits your options since you can't afford to let it setup ever.

I agree on the Deoxys part but I have Taunt on Lele.... I just think I'm smart enough to click Taunt after I've used my Psychium Z and the pdon is not in Psychic range. And yeah, RP Pdon's existence limit's my existence since my team can't afford to have any type of defensive synergy but like, it's HO that it's not able to able to fit a Salamence.

I want to improve this team and I've built several Tapu Lele HOs. This is why I took the time and effort to post, but instead personal jabs were taken at my role as a TR. You may not agree with how I structure my rates, but it's ridiculous to say things like "I didn't read" or "just posting criticism". Problems with the team were identified, the causes and reasons for these problems were elaborated on, and suggestions were offered in order to fix them. Team rating does not get more straightforward than this, yet nothing I said was taken to heart.

I mean, maybe I used a mean tone but could you really blame me for that, all you did was ramble on for 3 paragraphs on why Salamence is important for Lele HO and why Pdon 6-0s, I did not see suggestions, just cold criticism. If I felt like you contribuited in some way I would have addressed it, hell, even suggesting Salamence over something would have made the cut, but instead I found myself reading a manuscript on how RP Pdon goes to town against this team.

I'm sorry that my post came off as having an attitude. My writing style tends to be cold and I did my best to lighten things up at the end of my rate without saying anything phony or forced. But, there comes a point where things begin to be unreasonable. Both Fireburn and I identified legitimate areas of concern, elaborated on them, and offered suggestions, yet we're met with denial and a snarky reply. This makes it seem as though the purpose of sharing this team wasn't to get feedback or to discuss options for Tapu Lele HO, but rather to get a pat on the back from everyone. If rates aren't wanted here it would have been nice to know ahead of time since then I wouldn't have posted.

I apologize to Fireburn if my post seemed overly aggresive, I got a bit mad at the fact that considered Sand a legitimate issue and I honestly regret how I replied to him when he was trying to help.

 

[Paycard]

To add to threats, scarf Kyurem-White is probably the biggest threat to the team since it outspeeds everything including Pdon after Rock Polish. Overall though amazing team once again Edgar :]. Keep up the goodwork fren