Trick Room Abusing (OU RMT)

[Q_Qbone]

...or as I like to call it, Spirit of the Marowak.

Hello, Smogon! I'm new to the competitive gameplay, and I've enjoyed it more and more. I wasted all of my youth playing Pokémon Blue, and I've always been addicted to Cubone and Marowak. I personally found the story of the mother Marowak touching, and I decided to pay her a tribute. I thought that I could use Marowak to it's full potential in a trick room team, so with that in mind I set out to build a team around this concept. I've battled some with it: either I trash the opponent around, or either I am completely annihilated. I need some help to balance this out, and I believe that the Pokémon Bible can help me!

So, to start, here's my team, their stats, their attacks, their weaknesses, etc, as best as I know them.

Here's the thought process I had when I designed the team:

The thought process was done with a friend over Skype. Well, in fact, said friend guided me, but I managed to control my team since them and to be able to perform light tweaks on it by myself since then. Here's the conversation if you wish to read it.

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[2010-11-13 20:54:08] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you should build a trickroom team based around a Marowak sweep
[2010-11-13 20:54:24] Saint Ashes Yotaka: lets do it, build you an epic marowak sweep team :3
[2010-11-13 20:54:30] Danny: I'll try that...
[2010-11-13 20:54:41] Saint Ashes Yotaka: lemme help :D
[2010-11-13 20:54:50] Danny: Alright :3
[2010-11-13 20:54:53] Saint Ashes Yotaka: build it on shoddy
[2010-11-13 20:55:09] Danny: Well, the lead is a problem. I always feel like leads are unrelated to the rest of the team/cannon fodders.
[2010-11-13 20:55:21] Saint Ashes Yotaka: not always
[2010-11-13 20:55:39] Saint Ashes Yotaka: we'll start with Marowak though since he's the main star, put him in 6th place
[2010-11-13 20:56:07] Saint Ashes Yotaka: we want to 0 his speed as much as we can
[2010-11-13 20:56:19] Danny: So, 0 IV speed?
[2010-11-13 20:56:20] Saint Ashes Yotaka: so give him 0 speed IVs
[2010-11-13 20:56:36] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yep
[2010-11-13 20:56:40] Saint Ashes Yotaka: then max attack
[2010-11-13 20:56:58] Saint Ashes Yotaka: then we can work on his bulk
[2010-11-13 20:57:18] Saint Ashes Yotaka: he has more defense than HP so putting more EVs into defence will be more beneficial to him
[2010-11-13 20:57:18] Danny: He's got Rock head as an ability.
[2010-11-13 20:57:42] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Marowak has to be a girl though
[2010-11-13 20:57:46] Danny: Oh?
[2010-11-13 20:57:48] Danny: Why?
[2010-11-13 20:58:01] Saint Ashes Yotaka: she's the mother of the crying cubone in red/blue remember D:
[2010-11-13 20:58:05] Danny: Oh, yes!
[2010-11-13 20:58:19] Danny: I feel like Dusknoir's gonna be related
[2010-11-13 20:58:21] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 20:58:30] Danny: Even Bronzong. xD
[2010-11-13 20:58:32] Saint Ashes Yotaka: make Marowak a Naughty nature as well
[2010-11-13 20:58:41] Saint Ashes Yotaka: no brave
[2010-11-13 20:58:43] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I mean
[2010-11-13 20:58:46] Danny: But, doesn't Naughty raise Special Attack?
[2010-11-13 20:58:55] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Brave reduces speed and increases attack
[2010-11-13 20:59:07] Danny: 252 defence?
[2010-11-13 20:59:15] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I said naughty when I was meaning Brave, for some reason I just typed it that way xD
[2010-11-13 20:59:20] Danny: xD
[2010-11-13 21:00:15] Saint Ashes Yotaka: no, give him about 188 in Defence and 68 in HP
[2010-11-13 21:00:30] Danny: Alright.
[2010-11-13 21:00:57] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and a Thick Club of course
[2010-11-13 21:01:04] Danny: I dunno, I also feel like I should give them thematic nicknames.
[2010-11-13 21:01:14] Saint Ashes Yotaka: do that after
[2010-11-13 21:01:20] Danny: Okay
[2010-11-13 21:01:49] Saint Ashes Yotaka: now give her Sword Dance
[2010-11-13 21:02:02] Danny: There's sweeping and being Over 9000
[2010-11-13 21:02:04] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 21:02:07] Saint Ashes Yotaka: this'll give Marowak almost 1000 attack
[2010-11-13 21:02:22] Saint Ashes Yotaka: over 1000 actually
[2010-11-13 21:02:27] Saint Ashes Yotaka: no much is gonna stop that
[2010-11-13 21:02:45] Saint Ashes Yotaka: earthquake and stone edge will give her perfect coverage
[2010-11-13 21:03:02] Danny: If Bonemerang's accuracy wasn't of 90...
[2010-11-13 21:03:25] Saint Ashes Yotaka: it's only got 50 power though D:
[2010-11-13 21:03:28] Danny: Twice.
[2010-11-13 21:03:29] Saint Ashes Yotaka: or does it hit multiple times
[2010-11-13 21:03:31] Saint Ashes Yotaka: ah
[2010-11-13 21:03:38] Danny: bone rush is the same
[2010-11-13 21:03:40] Danny: but 2-5 times
[2010-11-13 21:03:48] Danny: and 80% accuracy.
[2010-11-13 21:03:58] Saint Ashes Yotaka: that's the same power as EQ though, two 50 attack power hits = 100
[2010-11-13 21:04:08] Danny: EQ has 100% accuracy.
[2010-11-13 21:04:13] Saint Ashes Yotaka: exactly
[2010-11-13 21:05:07] Danny: Hmm...
[2010-11-13 21:05:10] Saint Ashes Yotaka: for Marowak's last move put in thunderpunch for extra coverage, though I doubt you'll be using it often
[2010-11-13 21:05:32] Saint Ashes Yotaka: now that Marowak is done, we need something to resist Marowak's weaknesses
[2010-11-13 21:05:49] Saint Ashes Yotaka: something with bulk
[2010-11-13 21:06:40] Danny: Well, I thought of Bronzong as a well, since, well, I figured that bells were related to towers... >.<
[2010-11-13 21:07:08] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Marowak is weak to water, grass and ice
[2010-11-13 21:07:16] Danny: Mm-hmm.
[2010-11-13 21:07:53] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you will have Bronzong on your team, cause he's a reliable trick room setter
[2010-11-13 21:08:01] Saint Ashes Yotaka: but not a lead
[2010-11-13 21:08:26] Saint Ashes Yotaka: for the lead I'm thinking Machamp, he's a reliable anti-lead and pretty slow
[2010-11-13 21:09:31] Saint Ashes Yotaka: only thing is, Probat destroys him as an anti-lead every single time, so you don't want to stay in against him xD
[2010-11-13 21:09:37] Saint Ashes Yotaka: but we're not just building a team to counter mine
[2010-11-13 21:09:55] Danny: I think I'll post a RMT afterward D:
[2010-11-13 21:10:10] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you need to battle and play with your team before you post an RMT though
[2010-11-13 21:10:16] Danny: Oh, okay.
[2010-11-13 21:10:33] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you can't throw it together them post an RMT, you gotta learn what your weaknesses are
[2010-11-13 21:10:40] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and try to patch them up
[2010-11-13 21:11:11] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Machamp's biggest threat is probably the Colbur Berry lead Azelf
[2010-11-13 21:11:23] Saint Ashes Yotaka: "This set is designed to take advantage of Azelf's reasonable bulk in order to negate the need for a Focus Sash, allowing it to use a Colbur Berry to defeat the Machamp and Tyranitar leads who plague other leading Azelf sets."
[2010-11-13 21:12:00] Danny: Though, T-tar lead, while cliché, doesn't sound bad to me
[2010-11-13 21:12:03] Danny: I mean, sandstorm
[2010-11-13 21:12:10] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Colbur Azelfs are the most effective and most common sets for lead
[2010-11-13 21:12:20] Saint Ashes Yotaka: mmmmh sandstorm Marowak :D
[2010-11-13 21:12:30] Danny: Get out... Get out...
[2010-11-13 21:12:32] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 21:12:33] Saint Ashes Yotaka: but I think Machamp makes a better lead
[2010-11-13 21:12:55] Danny: But, assuming we have bronzong, that still makes already half the team immune to Sandstorm :P
[2010-11-13 21:12:57] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and I have a plan to beat Colbur Azelf, if Machamp has the right attack..
[2010-11-13 21:13:02] Danny: Okay :3
[2010-11-13 21:13:07] Saint Ashes Yotaka: YES!
[2010-11-13 21:13:09] Saint Ashes Yotaka: success
[2010-11-13 21:13:12] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Machamp learns Thief
[2010-11-13 21:13:19] Saint Ashes Yotaka: xD
[2010-11-13 21:13:24] Danny: Niggah
[2010-11-13 21:13:27] Danny: D:
[2010-11-13 21:13:39] Saint Ashes Yotaka: but that doesn't mean my strat is neccissarily going to work
[2010-11-13 21:13:42] Danny: What's a colbur berry anyway?
[2010-11-13 21:13:47] Saint Ashes Yotaka: cause Azelf can still KO Machamp with psycic
[2010-11-13 21:14:39] Danny: So, now we have a niggah Machamp. D:
[2010-11-13 21:14:40] Saint Ashes Yotaka: makes dark type attacks hit 50% less then consumes the berry
[2010-11-13 21:14:44] Danny: Oh.
[2010-11-13 21:15:00] Danny: Isn't it redundant to hit it with thief?
[2010-11-13 21:15:12] Saint Ashes Yotaka: does thief do damage?
[2010-11-13 21:15:19] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I thought it just stole items
[2010-11-13 21:15:25] Danny: Maybe
[2010-11-13 21:15:31] Danny: I think I'm confusing with Pluck
[2010-11-13 21:15:41] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you're right, it has 40 power
[2010-11-13 21:15:47] Saint Ashes Yotaka: so it'll have nothing to steal xD
[2010-11-13 21:15:59] Saint Ashes Yotaka: okay that idea is useless then
[2010-11-13 21:16:51] Saint Ashes Yotaka: we'll simply go for a standard Machamp lead then
[2010-11-13 21:17:12] Saint Ashes Yotaka: the berry will probably activate before thief steals it :(
[2010-11-13 21:17:27] Danny: We could test it out
[2010-11-13 21:17:42] Danny: Give Probat a Colbur berry or something <_<
[2010-11-13 21:18:13] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I don't think it'd work any way, cause Machamp still dies to an Azelf psychic two hits I think
[2010-11-13 21:18:44] Danny: We could still pray for haxes
[2010-11-13 21:18:55] Danny: And Dynamicpunch it
[2010-11-13 21:18:56] Saint Ashes Yotaka: so if you thief turn one, they psychic, then I don't think you'd be able to KO especially since Azelf outspeeds
[2010-11-13 21:19:22] Danny: I assume it's ability is levitate?
[2010-11-13 21:19:29] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yeah
[2010-11-13 21:19:42] Danny: Fire punch instead of ice punch?
[2010-11-13 21:20:22] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Ice Punch is for Dragons I assume
[2010-11-13 21:20:31] Danny: Dragon leads?
[2010-11-13 21:20:51] Saint Ashes Yotaka: fire punch hits what? Grass pokemon are almost non-existant, and more steels are taken care of by fighting any way
[2010-11-13 21:21:00] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Machamp isn't a suicide lead, he sticks around
[2010-11-13 21:21:10] Saint Ashes Yotaka: he be deadly in a trick room
[2010-11-13 21:21:38] Danny: Bronzong with Trick Room and U-turn? Doubt it's got U-turn <____<
[2010-11-13 21:21:45] Saint Ashes Yotaka: it won't
[2010-11-13 21:22:02] Saint Ashes Yotaka: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Trick_Room
[2010-11-13 21:22:40] Danny: Mmmh...
[2010-11-13 21:23:26] Danny: Well, if Azelf is a trouble, but Machamp pwns pretty much any other lead, shouldn't another mon counter Azelf?
[2010-11-13 21:25:06] Saint Ashes Yotaka: if you had a lead with U-Turn and Machamp with Bullet Punch you could easily beat Azelf and it'd only get one attack in, the problem is it'll still get rocks up Dx
[2010-11-13 21:25:27] Danny: And then I'd need a spinner
[2010-11-13 21:25:28] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 21:25:40] Saint Ashes Yotaka: not neccessarily
[2010-11-13 21:26:06] Saint Ashes Yotaka: look at my Probat team, I have two x2 weak pokemon to SR and no spinner, but rocks barely even phaze me
[2010-11-13 21:26:26] Danny: I usually don't care about field setups
[2010-11-13 21:26:28] Danny: <-<
[2010-11-13 21:26:49] Saint Ashes Yotaka: rocks are good, they turn some 2HKO's into OHKO's
[2010-11-13 21:27:04] Saint Ashes Yotaka: they stop your opponent from switching around freely
[2010-11-13 21:28:00] Danny: Mmmh...
[2010-11-13 21:28:57] Saint Ashes Yotaka: anyway, standard attacking lead machamp
[2010-11-13 21:29:02] Saint Ashes Yotaka: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/machamp
[2010-11-13 21:29:04] Danny: Okay
[2010-11-13 21:29:26] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you do want the speed on him though since he'll be up before trick room
[2010-11-13 21:29:34] Saint Ashes Yotaka: so you still want him to outspeed the things he normally does
[2010-11-13 21:29:42] Danny: Lum Berry?
[2010-11-13 21:29:59] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yeah, for sleep leads like Roserade
[2010-11-13 21:30:25] Saint Ashes Yotaka: it'll sleep powder your lum berry, you attack, then KO it with bullet punch next turn
[2010-11-13 21:30:28] Danny: Bullet punch has priority, right?
[2010-11-13 21:30:34] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yeah
[2010-11-13 21:30:37] Danny: Payback hits harder if the mon was hit first?
[2010-11-13 21:31:00] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yep, it's primary useage is killing Ghosts that try to wall DP
[2010-11-13 21:31:04] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and Azelf
[2010-11-13 21:31:31] Danny: DP?
[2010-11-13 21:31:46] Saint Ashes Yotaka: dynamic punch
[2010-11-13 21:31:50] Danny: Oooh
[2010-11-13 21:32:01] Danny: Also,Shiny Marowak is Green and rotten
[2010-11-13 21:32:02] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 21:32:12] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yeah most shinys look like crap
[2010-11-13 21:32:15] Saint Ashes Yotaka: there are very few cool ones
[2010-11-13 21:32:23] Saint Ashes Yotaka: now we wants Bronzong
[2010-11-13 21:33:38] Danny: Mmh-mm
[2010-11-13 21:33:50] Saint Ashes Yotaka: left overs, relaxed nature
[2010-11-13 21:33:56] Saint Ashes Yotaka: 0 speed IC
[2010-11-13 21:33:58] Saint Ashes Yotaka: IV
[2010-11-13 21:34:18] Danny: Ability?
[2010-11-13 21:34:31] Saint Ashes Yotaka: levitate is better than heatproof IMO
[2010-11-13 21:34:42] Saint Ashes Yotaka: heatproof only halves the damage of fire
[2010-11-13 21:34:50] Saint Ashes Yotaka: where as levitate negates the damage
[2010-11-13 21:35:03] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and Bronzong's only weaknesses are fire and ground
[2010-11-13 21:35:11] Danny: So, heatproof is a sucky version of thick fat? xD
[2010-11-13 21:35:20] Saint Ashes Yotaka: so you're effectively making his only weakness fire
[2010-11-13 21:35:43] Saint Ashes Yotaka: some people run heatproof for surprise, but once they know you have it EQ is coming to spoil your fun
[2010-11-13 21:36:02] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you wouldn't keep him in on a fire attack any way
[2010-11-13 21:36:49] Saint Ashes Yotaka: so we want trick room, gyro ball for his attack
[2010-11-13 21:36:51] Danny: Mm-hmm
[2010-11-13 21:37:16] Saint Ashes Yotaka: light screen will be good, Marowak already has good defense, so light screen will be better
[2010-11-13 21:37:31] Danny: So, the Trick Room setup?
[2010-11-13 21:38:00] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I'm reluctant to give Bronzong explosion though, it's not always a good thing to explode your support
[2010-11-13 21:38:09] Saint Ashes Yotaka: especially one that's useful more than once
[2010-11-13 21:38:34] Danny: Doesn't i have like Heal bell?
[2010-11-13 21:38:48] Saint Ashes Yotaka: has heal block D:
[2010-11-13 21:38:54] Danny: Wazzat?
[2010-11-13 21:39:10] Danny: Well
[2010-11-13 21:39:15] Danny: I could still put Stealth Rock
[2010-11-13 21:39:17] Danny: I guess
[2010-11-13 21:39:30] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yes, you need that, and I was thinking of that before Dx
[2010-11-13 21:39:54] Saint Ashes Yotaka: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD
[2010-11-13 21:40:25] Danny: Done
[2010-11-13 21:40:53] Saint Ashes Yotaka: currently you have no major weaknesses that need patching up
[2010-11-13 21:41:41] Danny: I personally believe Dusknoir could deserve a place
[2010-11-13 21:41:42] Danny: <.<
[2010-11-13 21:41:46] Saint Ashes Yotaka: but you do need a fire resist and an ice resist
[2010-11-13 21:42:01] Saint Ashes Yotaka: er, water resist I mean
[2010-11-13 21:42:27] Danny: Vaporeon?
[2010-11-13 21:42:59] Saint Ashes Yotaka: vaporeon may lose offensive momentum though, and will really only waste trick room turns
[2010-11-13 21:43:19] Danny: ...Swampert?
[2010-11-13 21:43:33] Danny: Then again
[2010-11-13 21:43:40] Danny: I think I'd rather need a special attacker
[2010-11-13 21:43:41] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 21:44:32] Saint Ashes Yotaka: we still want Tyranitar?
[2010-11-13 21:44:43] Danny: Probably, if but for the Sandstorm
[2010-11-13 21:44:45] Saint Ashes Yotaka: a bulky mixed attacker could be good
[2010-11-13 21:44:58] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you currently don't have any issues with sand
[2010-11-13 21:45:18] Danny: Say, if I get Swampert and T-tar
[2010-11-13 21:45:21] Saint Ashes Yotaka: the only one hit by it so far is Machamp, but he won't mind it too much
[2010-11-13 21:45:58] Danny: Would it make sense?
[2010-11-13 21:45:59] Danny: <.<
[2010-11-13 21:46:38] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I was thinking about putting heatran in there, but having heatran and tyranitar gives too much fighting weakness
[2010-11-13 21:46:46] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and I see tyranitar being more useful
[2010-11-13 21:46:49] Saint Ashes Yotaka: xD
[2010-11-13 21:46:54] Danny: Same
[2010-11-13 21:47:04] Danny: I'm tired of Heatran too, personally
[2010-11-13 21:47:08] Danny: He's EVERYWHERE
[2010-11-13 21:47:10] Danny: @_@
[2010-11-13 21:47:13] Saint Ashes Yotaka: he's a good pokemon, that's why
[2010-11-13 21:47:29] Saint Ashes Yotaka: we could put him on there with another fighting resist
[2010-11-13 21:47:43] Saint Ashes Yotaka: he'd serve as a special attacker
[2010-11-13 21:48:00] Danny: Dusknoir, who could also trick room. <_<
[2010-11-13 21:48:47] Danny: But then water types would be a major problem
[2010-11-13 21:48:54] Saint Ashes Yotaka: alright, Tyranitar's standard mixed set runs a lot of speed, but we won't need that :3
[2010-11-13 21:49:03] Saint Ashes Yotaka: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
[2010-11-13 21:49:19] Saint Ashes Yotaka: change to 252 attack and 4 spdef
[2010-11-13 21:49:38] Saint Ashes Yotaka: or we can work on his bulk if you prefer
[2010-11-13 21:49:50] Saint Ashes Yotaka: a bulky set could be good
[2010-11-13 21:50:10] Danny: I'm not sure about bulks, I get impatient quick in fights.
[2010-11-13 21:50:30] Saint Ashes Yotaka: look at my Gyarados, is he weak?
[2010-11-13 21:50:35] Saint Ashes Yotaka: he's a bulky set
[2010-11-13 21:50:37] Danny: Not really
[2010-11-13 21:50:39] Danny: Oooh
[2010-11-13 21:50:47] Saint Ashes Yotaka: bulky sets work on pokemon that have naturally high attack
[2010-11-13 21:50:56] Saint Ashes Yotaka: like Tyranitar
[2010-11-13 21:51:24] Danny: Well, sounds like a good idea then. I do feel like i lack some defence D:
[2010-11-13 21:51:36] Saint Ashes Yotaka: lets try it any way, put in 180 into HP, 252 in Sp.Atk and the rest into atk (76)
[2010-11-13 21:52:08] Saint Ashes Yotaka: make him Brave as well
[2010-11-13 21:52:22] Danny: 0 IV speed?
[2010-11-13 21:52:47] Saint Ashes Yotaka: flame thrower, superpower, crunch and either icebeam or thunderbolt
[2010-11-13 21:52:53] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yeah
[2010-11-13 21:53:05] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and left overs
[2010-11-13 21:53:12] Saint Ashes Yotaka: left overs are a must for bulky pokemon
[2010-11-13 21:53:15] Danny: Superpower is like Brave Bird, right?
[2010-11-13 21:53:20] Saint Ashes Yotaka: nope
[2010-11-13 21:53:33] Saint Ashes Yotaka: super power lowers atk and def, so you always want to switch after using it
[2010-11-13 21:53:46] Saint Ashes Yotaka: either that or follow with Sp. Atk moves
[2010-11-13 21:53:58] Saint Ashes Yotaka: just watch for Mach Punch users
[2010-11-13 21:54:06] Saint Ashes Yotaka: thankfully they're not common
[2010-11-13 21:54:20] Danny: Then comes Heatran?
[2010-11-13 21:54:29] Saint Ashes Yotaka: nah we're not using heatran
[2010-11-13 21:54:33] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you don't need more water weakness
[2010-11-13 21:54:34] Danny: Okay.
[2010-11-13 21:55:13] Saint Ashes Yotaka: dark pulse is also an option over crunch, but I prefer crunch since it's his main STAB and still has more atk than sp.atk
[2010-11-13 21:55:32] Danny: Though it could set off guard
[2010-11-13 21:56:14] Saint Ashes Yotaka: nothing's gonna like taking a crunch more than taking a dark pulse though, in fact Blissey will love it
[2010-11-13 21:56:42] Saint Ashes Yotaka: the only reason you'd use Dark pulse is if you think you're gonna be spamming super power everywhere, which you probably won't be
[2010-11-13 21:56:57] Danny: Yeah, I see.
[2010-11-13 21:57:00] Saint Ashes Yotaka: thunderbolt or icebeam?
[2010-11-13 21:57:06] Danny: I picked T-bolt.
[2010-11-13 21:57:45] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you currently have grass and water weaknesses that need to be patched up
[2010-11-13 21:57:53] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Swampert is deffinitely a no-go
[2010-11-13 21:57:59] Danny: Oh, right
[2010-11-13 21:57:59] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and you also need another trick room user
[2010-11-13 21:58:21] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I'm looking at Azelf and Jirachi
[2010-11-13 21:58:29] Danny: I never used those.
[2010-11-13 21:58:32] Danny: I have no idea
[2010-11-13 21:58:37] Danny: of what they could possibly be
[2010-11-13 21:58:39] Saint Ashes Yotaka: or maybe Uxie, he's slower I think
[2010-11-13 22:00:19] Danny: I dunno D:
[2010-11-13 22:00:25] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Jirachi could be good
[2010-11-13 22:00:26] Danny: These names, I do not know
[2010-11-13 22:00:27] Danny: Q_Q
[2010-11-13 22:00:34] Saint Ashes Yotaka: access to trick room, u-turn and wish
[2010-11-13 22:00:37] Danny: I saw Jirachi the wishmaker.
[2010-11-13 22:00:44] Danny: That's about it
[2010-11-13 22:00:53] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and Iron Head flinch hax is annoying
[2010-11-13 22:01:04] Danny: Serene grace?
[2010-11-13 22:01:07] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yeah
[2010-11-13 22:01:34] Saint Ashes Yotaka: the alternative is Uxie, who has trick room and U-Turn also
[2010-11-13 22:01:50] Saint Ashes Yotaka: but also yawn for forcing switches and access to reflect
[2010-11-13 22:01:52] Danny: I think Wish is useful, personal.
[2010-11-13 22:01:57] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I think Jirachi is better
[2010-11-13 22:02:09] Saint Ashes Yotaka: trick room isn't a standard set on him though
[2010-11-13 22:02:29] Saint Ashes Yotaka: his standard specially defensive set is 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
[2010-11-13 22:02:33] Danny: Well, I don't see trick rooms team often
[2010-11-13 22:02:38] Saint Ashes Yotaka: but we'll drop the speed in favor of something else
[2010-11-13 22:02:52] Danny: We could always give it in attack
[2010-11-13 22:02:54] Danny: for iron head
[2010-11-13 22:02:55] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 22:03:13] Saint Ashes Yotaka: okay
[2010-11-13 22:03:31] Danny: Ugh, I need to find IVs that work
[2010-11-13 22:03:36] Danny: It's red D:
[2010-11-13 22:03:56] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yeah Dx
[2010-11-13 22:04:16] Danny: Oh
[2010-11-13 22:04:21] Danny: I gave him 0 special attack
[2010-11-13 22:04:23] Danny: and it fixed it
[2010-11-13 22:04:24] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 22:04:34] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and a Sassy nature
[2010-11-13 22:04:38] Danny: What item?
[2010-11-13 22:04:46] Saint Ashes Yotaka: did you give him 0 speed?
[2010-11-13 22:04:51] Danny: Yup
[2010-11-13 22:04:52] Danny: And ugh
[2010-11-13 22:04:54] Danny: Nevermind
[2010-11-13 22:04:57] Danny: 0 SpA didn't work
[2010-11-13 22:04:59] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 22:05:06] Saint Ashes Yotaka: 0 speed made mine work
[2010-11-13 22:05:23] Danny: Mine's still red.
[2010-11-13 22:05:36] Saint Ashes Yotaka: make both your speed and sp.atk 0
[2010-11-13 22:05:39] Danny: Oh wow, shiny Jirachi looks cool
[2010-11-13 22:05:45] Saint Ashes Yotaka: then make your sp.atk 31
[2010-11-13 22:05:49] Saint Ashes Yotaka: that worked for me
[2010-11-13 22:05:49] Saint Ashes Yotaka: xD
[2010-11-13 22:05:57] Danny: Didn't for me
[2010-11-13 22:05:58] Danny: D:
[2010-11-13 22:06:10] Saint Ashes Yotaka: just keep playing around with speed and sp.atk until it works
[2010-11-13 22:06:20] Danny: Oh
[2010-11-13 22:06:20] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and you want left overs
[2010-11-13 22:06:22] Danny: 1 speed
[2010-11-13 22:06:26] Saint Ashes Yotaka: xD
[2010-11-13 22:06:32] Saint Ashes Yotaka: that'll do
[2010-11-13 22:06:52] Saint Ashes Yotaka: so trick room, wish, u-turn and iron head
[2010-11-13 22:06:59] Danny: Mm-hmm! ^_^
[2010-11-13 22:07:36] Saint Ashes Yotaka: he also covers up your weaknesses nicely, you have nothing outstanding now
[2010-11-13 22:07:49] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and a wopping 5 immunities on your team
[2010-11-13 22:07:50] Saint Ashes Yotaka: xD
[2010-11-13 22:08:07] Danny: Uh, that team is pwner than I thought
[2010-11-13 22:08:09] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 22:08:22] Saint Ashes Yotaka: now I think you need one more trick room sweeper
[2010-11-13 22:08:32] Danny: Uxie? <_<
[2010-11-13 22:08:57] Saint Ashes Yotaka: no, uxie is support xD
[2010-11-13 22:09:07] Danny: Azelf?>___>
[2010-11-13 22:09:14] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Snorlax could work
[2010-11-13 22:09:19] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Azelf is too fast
[2010-11-13 22:09:34] Danny: Curselax xD
[2010-11-13 22:09:42] Saint Ashes Yotaka: or Rhyperior
[2010-11-13 22:09:55] Danny: What about water types?
[2010-11-13 22:10:09] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Octillery is a common trick room sweeper
[2010-11-13 22:10:18] Danny: Oh?
[2010-11-13 22:10:21] Danny: Never even thought of it
[2010-11-13 22:10:33] Saint Ashes Yotaka: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/octillery
[2010-11-13 22:11:04] Saint Ashes Yotaka: gives you a weakness to grass, which isn't too bad since grass attacks are uncommon
[2010-11-13 22:11:19] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Breloom is about the only thing that uses them in OU
[2010-11-13 22:11:42] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I think Snorlax would be a stronger choice though
[2010-11-13 22:11:50] Saint Ashes Yotaka: but then, he does have fighting weakness
[2010-11-13 22:12:08] Danny: But he's fat anyway
[2010-11-13 22:12:10] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 22:12:18] Saint Ashes Yotaka: which isn't actually too bad
[2010-11-13 22:12:24] Saint Ashes Yotaka: Snorlax gives you no major weaknesses
[2010-11-13 22:13:12] Saint Ashes Yotaka: personally I think you should go with a Choice Band set for him, since you already have a lot of set up
[2010-11-13 22:13:49] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and setting up in trick room just wastes trick room turns (so I'm considering taking sword dance off Marowak)
[2010-11-13 22:14:17] Danny: Besides it's already got godly attack
[2010-11-13 22:14:36] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yeah, thick club is a free SD
[2010-11-13 22:15:11] Saint Ashes Yotaka: for Snorlax, brave, choice band, thick fat and 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
[2010-11-13 22:15:37] Saint Ashes Yotaka: then you want Return (body slam is bad, the last thing you want to do is paralyse an opponent in trick room)
[2010-11-13 22:15:43] Saint Ashes Yotaka: pursuit
[2010-11-13 22:15:53] Saint Ashes Yotaka: crunch and Earthquake
[2010-11-13 22:16:15] Saint Ashes Yotaka: pursuit can be swapped for self destruct, I don't find pursuit all that helpful
[2010-11-13 22:16:28] Saint Ashes Yotaka: but it can kill retreating ghosts
[2010-11-13 22:16:30] Danny: I don't like suiciding mons.
[2010-11-13 22:16:39] Saint Ashes Yotaka: especially sweepers
[2010-11-13 22:16:40] Danny: I find it counter-productive
[2010-11-13 22:17:20] Danny: I could replace SD for Ice punch
[2010-11-13 22:17:21] Saint Ashes Yotaka: how about return, crunch, earthquake, firepunch
[2010-11-13 22:17:28] Danny: Yeah
[2010-11-13 22:17:32] Danny: I need a fire attack
[2010-11-13 22:18:04] Danny: Uh
[2010-11-13 22:18:08] Danny: Marowak can learn Ice Beam
[2010-11-13 22:18:11] Danny: but not Ice punch
[2010-11-13 22:18:12] Saint Ashes Yotaka: xD
[2010-11-13 22:18:14] Danny: go figure.
[2010-11-13 22:18:53] Danny: It can learn -icy wind-
[2010-11-13 22:18:54] Saint Ashes Yotaka: double-edge?
[2010-11-13 22:18:57] Danny: Figured
[2010-11-13 22:18:58] Saint Ashes Yotaka: he gets no recoil
[2010-11-13 22:18:59] Danny: Rock head
[2010-11-13 22:19:20] Saint Ashes Yotaka: then again, EQ will always be stronger than Double Edge
[2010-11-13 22:19:22] Saint Ashes Yotaka: cause of STAB
[2010-11-13 22:19:35] Saint Ashes Yotaka: and what does double edge hit that EQ doesn't?
[2010-11-13 22:19:40] Danny: Point.
[2010-11-13 22:19:44] Danny: Then again, what else?
[2010-11-13 22:19:45] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 22:20:00] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I can't think of anything that resists EQ and SE
[2010-11-13 22:20:06] Danny: Toxic? xD?
[2010-11-13 22:20:17] Saint Ashes Yotaka: could use knock off to annoy people
[2010-11-13 22:20:20] Danny: Wait
[2010-11-13 22:20:22] Danny: It can learn sing
[2010-11-13 22:20:24] Danny: |:
[2010-11-13 22:20:31] Saint Ashes Yotaka: to sing it's babies to sleep
[2010-11-13 22:20:59] Danny: Sing is tricky.
[2010-11-13 22:21:00] Saint Ashes Yotaka: OLOL BELLYDRUM
[2010-11-13 22:21:01] Saint Ashes Yotaka: xD
[2010-11-13 22:21:07] Danny: Yeah, I know.
[2010-11-13 22:21:19] Danny: Bellydrumwish?
[2010-11-13 22:21:20] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 22:21:43] Danny: If Sing's accuracy wasn't 55%
[2010-11-13 22:21:46] Danny: I'd pick it
[2010-11-13 22:21:48] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I think he'd actually have over 9000 attack with belly drum + thick club xD
[2010-11-13 22:22:00] Danny: Maximum is 1252 I think
[2010-11-13 22:22:04] Saint Ashes Yotaka: awh
[2010-11-13 22:22:12] Danny: The games are capped, that I know.
[2010-11-13 22:22:15] Danny: Dunno about shoddy
[2010-11-13 22:22:29] Saint Ashes Yotaka: you could put one of his signature attacks on for lulz
[2010-11-13 22:22:55] Danny: Iron tail?
[2010-11-13 22:23:06] Danny: Or Iron head
[2010-11-13 22:23:09] Saint Ashes Yotaka: steel isn't a very good attacking type
[2010-11-13 22:23:28] Danny: Low kick?
[2010-11-13 22:23:31] Saint Ashes Yotaka: brick break, fighting move could be useful
[2010-11-13 22:23:41] Saint Ashes Yotaka: dig? xD
[2010-11-13 22:23:48] Danny: Waste of a turn
[2010-11-13 22:23:51] Saint Ashes Yotaka: yep
[2010-11-13 22:24:05] Saint Ashes Yotaka: fire punch
[2010-11-13 22:24:19] Saint Ashes Yotaka: focus punch if you predict a switch
[2010-11-13 22:24:25] Danny: Well, besides dynamic punch
[2010-11-13 22:24:30] Danny: I don't have any fighting moves
[2010-11-13 22:24:46] Danny: (And bullet punch)
[2010-11-13 22:24:55] Saint Ashes Yotaka: bullet punch is steel
[2010-11-13 22:25:25] Danny: Then I only have Dpunch, while fire wise I got T-tar's flamethrower and Snorlax' fire punch
[2010-11-13 22:25:30] Danny: so brick break
[2010-11-13 22:25:37] Saint Ashes Yotaka: T-Tar also has superpower
[2010-11-13 22:25:43] Saint Ashes Yotaka: so two fighting attacks
[2010-11-13 22:25:59] Saint Ashes Yotaka: what about tail whip? :D
[2010-11-13 22:26:08] Danny: That's like SD
[2010-11-13 22:26:10] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 22:26:16] Danny: But even less useful
[2010-11-13 22:26:25] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I think double edge and focus punch are the two best options
[2010-11-13 22:26:39] Danny: I suck at predicting, usually
[2010-11-13 22:27:14] Saint Ashes Yotaka: it's easy, switch in to an opponent who's gonna have to switch or be KO'd
[2010-11-13 22:27:19] Saint Ashes Yotaka: then focus punch
[2010-11-13 22:28:00] Danny: What isn't KO'd by a trick roomed Marowak? Usually, Marowak is the one afraid of being 1hko'd
[2010-11-13 22:28:01] Danny: <_<
[2010-11-13 22:28:21] Saint Ashes Yotaka: anyway, you can nickname them now
[2010-11-13 22:28:23] Danny: But yeah
[2010-11-13 22:28:37] Danny: I'm trying to find a theme
[2010-11-13 22:28:41] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I think you have a solid team to start with, even if you do have to make more changes later it's a good starting point
[2010-11-13 22:28:53] Saint Ashes Yotaka: I'm gonna get some groceries now so I don't have to later
[2010-11-13 22:28:58] Danny: Alrighty x3
[2010-11-13 22:29:02] Danny: Thanks for your help!

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SDef
IV: 0 speed.

Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- Reflect
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock

A centerpiece of my team. It's only job is to get our Trick Rooms for the rest of the team to do their job. If the opponent Dragon Dances or such, I will use Trick Room as a priority and attempt to counter, but usually I try to setup SR and Reflect as well. It's very easy to setup on, but if I can get Trick Room and predict correctly, setting up usually doesn't matter. The only tweak I've done to it was to change Light Screen into Reflect, since my team was getting hit a lot more by Physical attacks than Special Attacks. As a elad, it fares well. It manages to get SRs up and puts up Trick Room easily, too. Didn't have time to test too much, though.

Slowbro @ leftovers
Own Tempo
Relaxed
252 HP/252 Def/4Sp.D
Trick room
Light Screen
Slack off
Surf

Replaced Machamp with Slowbro. I haven't had the time to test around too much, but he already looks like a better addition to my team, as he has a tendency to survive longer than Machamp.

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Quiet Nature
252 Atk/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 4 Def.
Flamethrower
Thunderbolt
Superpower
Crunch


Mixed sweeper. With Trick Room, he usually gets the advantage over any pokémon due to it's type coverage, and he isn't afraid of being countered. As expected, though, any fighting move, especially Mach Punch, has a tendency to 1HKO it. Once Trick Room is down, he usually is an easy target, too. I try running a particularly bulky set, since I don't need Speed EVs. That extra bulk helps survive attacks that would usually 1HKO, such as Earthquake. The only tweaks I've done to it was to change Superpower into Brick Break, since I believe that the extra power isn't worth it. Changed it's held item from Leftovers to Expert Belt, and he already kicks more butts. Changed Brick Break to Superpower since he rarely gets more than 4 turns anyway.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SDef
IV: 1 Speed, 0 Special Attack

Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Protect
- U-turn
- Trick Room
- Wish

Backup Trick Roomer. Frailer than Bronzong, but he gets the job done. I dislike the fact that he's the same typing than Bronzong, too. It's simpler to get switchins with him though because of U-turn. Iron Head flinch hax saved me more than once, but he can easily be setup on too. Wish helps keeping the sweepers alive, particularly the frail Marowak. Changed Iron Head to Protect. Wishes come in plenty to save my sweepers.

Snorlax (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef
IV: 0 speed

Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Return
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

My main sweeper. He can switch into any attack aimed at Bronzong after trickroom is up and sweep with choice banded Return. The other attacks are for type coverage, crunch for Ghosts, fire punch and earthquake for steels that try to wall return. His choice band is limiting, though, and he is easily predicted and resisted/set up on, and trying to switch to another pokémon to remedy this is a waste of a Trick Room turn. I lost Machamp's Ice Punch, so I had no Dragon Counters. Snorlax now fills in this role, and is more reliable than Machamp at it.

Marowak (F) @ Thick Club
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Def
IV: 0 Speed

Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- ThunderPunch
- Fire Punch

My ace in the pocket, my favouritest Pokémon ever. She comes in late game and cleans up Snorlax's mess. With Thick Club essentially a free swords dance, and Trick Room allowing him to outspeed everything except priority, Marowak will commonly score multiple kills in a match whenever she appears. Earthquake and SE are for coverage, with Firepunch for grass types and Thunderpunch for water types. Changed Stone Edge to Double-Edge, since Thunderpunch with it was redundant. Due to Rock Head, Marowak takes no damage from it.

According to the Marriland weakness/resistance chart, my team has no major outstanding weaknesses, and lots of immunites. ( http://img716.imageshack.us/f/mariland.jpg/ ) Due to the nature of the team, it doesn't mind poisoning or paralyzing, but also due to the large number of physical attackers, burns are problems. I can also easily counter any setups when Trick room is up, save for Curselax, that thrives in this environment. Due to Slowbro's addition, my team now is weaker to Grass type moves, but they are somewhat uncommon in the metagame so I can cope with it.

The most major threat to my team I've met so far are Bulky rotoms, that eat my team by themselves. I've also found a weakness in to stall, particularly torment Heatran. I've played with this new team some, but I didn't really have the time to nail down it's weaknesses as the last games I've played all went very well. Stay tuned!

That's all I've found in this team so far, and I keep on finding new twists during each battles. I hope that, with your help, I'll be able to use this team more efficiently. Thank you for reading!

 

[beakman]

hello. All i have to say here is that your machamp. It's really useless in your team.
In your team at its current state, it's effectively only got 2 TR set ups, and the rest sweepers. With 4 sweepers, you really need to change one of them to an attacking TR set up, or another sturdy Trick roomer. And what i'd suggest here is to change machamp to a TR setup. I think Bronzong fits the role perfectly. It can get SR up reliably, and can easily set up TR. Move Bronzong to fit machamp's role,

And about your next Trick roomer. You were worried about the same typing of jirachi and bronzong. They really have a great typing, so all you really need to be worried about is fire, and that can easily be covered up by slowbro.

A set for slowbro:

Slowbro @ leftovers
Own Tempo
Relaxed
252 HP/252 Def/4Sp.D
Trick room
Reflect
Slack off
Surf

This utilises slowbro's typing and stats to set up TR effectively. Replace him with machamp's space. And reflect. Take reflect off Bronzong, as slowbro can reliably set it up. Replace Reflect with Explosion on Bronzong. Explosion is great to have on bronzong. It usually can almost take out any pokemon, and get in your sweepers safely, with 3turns of mega sweeping. Rest of the set on slowbro is self explanatory.

And jirachi. flinch haxing may be appealing, but lets face it. Jirachi isn't gonna be doing any sweeping, with those EVs. And besides its just going to waste your precious TR turns, when you could be sweeping with your mammoth marowak. So what i'd suggest here is to replace Iron Head to Protect. Protect allows jirachi to reliably heal itself, and gets good sandstorm damage. And i guess Jirachi is a pretty good TR set up, as despite its base speed (a little too high), after trick rooming, it can U-turn out last, if facing a relatively slow pokemon, to switch in your sweepers unharmed.

And boy. Tyranitar. Its a generally great pokemon to have, considering its attacking force. But i would use this, more conventional set than the one your using.

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Quiet Nature
252 Atk/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 4 Def.
Flamethrower
Thunderbolt
Superpower
Crunch

Superpower is completely necessary. Despite the stat drop, you're gonna have your speciall attacks to utilise anyway. And your only gonna be using him for 3~4 turns max, so don't be too worried about the stat drop. You want as many KOs as possible in the amount of time given. EV spread is to give more attacking power, as thats what you want on a sweeper. And you're gonna be wishing away anyway, so no need to be so defensive, especially after reflect support.


And lastly, marowak. Replace stone edge with Double edge. Stone edge is redundant with thunderpunch. And the accuracy means that if you miss, you'll be wasting your precious TR turns. And marowak, as fragile as he is, will probably be dead by the end of it. Double edge gets great coverage., and no recoil thanks to rock head.

Snorlax seems pretty solid, except for fire punch. As of current state, you have no real solution to flygon and dragonite, as in supereffective damage. So i'd use ice punch over fire punch.

Thats about it. pretty solid team overall, with gaps here and there. Check out my RMT about 2 pages back(?) i think. It's a TR team, and you may find something useful there.

:)

 

[Q_Qbone]

Thanks a lot for your rating! I agree with every of your choices, save for maybe putting Explosion on Bronzong. Yeah, I know, it hurts a lot, but I'm not fond of sacrifying my best Trick Roomer in pretty much any situation. Though, I'll consider it. Thanks again!

EDIT: Uh oh, I was changing my Machamp for a Slowbro on Pokémon online, and for some reason (I triple, quadruple checked), Reflect isn't part of Slowbro's moveset since Generation 4!

 

[beakman]

yes, i've checked as well, and it doesnt learn it. But what you could do is teach it Light screen, and keep reflect bronzong if you want it other than explosion.
So effectively you've got dual screen support. And marowak welcomes Light screen support as it has a very inferior sp.def compared to its defense stat.

 

[Q_Qbone]

So, I did a couple changes here and there, the only major changes being changing Machamp with Slowbro, and changing Bronzong into my lead. Battled around with it, results were a lot more satisfying than when Machamp was my lead, but I still gotta test it some more. Now, I'm considering changing Jirachi's EV speed, since he already has reasonable speed, even with 0 EV speed. I consider giving him more speed so he outspeeds most pokemon and setup trick room first, then wish at will or U-turn more safely. I'm pretty new to all this, so I have no idea about what is a good idea or not in the metagame yet, but I'll try this out and share some results.

 

[beakman]

nonononononononononononononono!!!!!!

You've got it all wrong.
Trick room has the lowest priority in the whole metagame. This means that it will always go last, regardless of the speed of the pokemon. And increasing the speed EV of jirachi is counter productive, as it will simply be moving last in a trick room state, given its high (too high for my liking) base speed stat. So, nononono.
And jirachi is meant to be your reliable TR set up, so a defensive spread is much, much more productive. I was only saying that jirachi will move last when facing a slower pokemon such as forretress, and would be able to u-turn out safely, after absorbing the hit from such pokemons, enabling your sweepers to come in unscathed.

And you want Light screen on slowbro. 2 Reflects are redundant.

So... NO.

 

[Q_Qbone]

I only have 1 reflect, unless I wrote Reflect for Slow--- Ugh, I did. Sorry for that. And now I realize that Trick Room will always go last, so yes, it is counter-productive, and I'll fix that. :P

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

1 Speed IV is useless on Snorlax: All non-trick room Snorlax will run 31 Speed IVs, and most any TR-Snorlax will run 0 Speed IVs. With 1 Speed IV, you effectively make it such that you're outsped no matter what. Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, but that IV seems really useless, detrimental even.

 

[Q_Qbone]

1 Speed IV is useless on Snorlax: All non-trick room Snorlax will run 31 Speed IVs, and most any TR-Snorlax will run 0 Speed IVs. With 1 Speed IV, you effectively make it such that you're outsped no matter what. Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, but that IV seems really useless, detrimental even.

Woops, wrong Pokémon. Those are Jirachi's IV, I couldn't get it to work otherwise. I'll swap them around.