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Triple Double!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by GtM, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Today, after having nothing better to do, I decided to make an OU team that was centered around some of the less appreciated OU threats, in this case Gyarados, Salamence and Virizion. Like all of my teams, I was determined for it to not fall into cookie-cutter territory, so I've done my best to make it both somewhat unique and a devestating threat to the standard metagame. And I've managed to do this without using any of the top 5 pokémon! Egad!

    When I was building my offensive core, I started to realise that there were a lot of doubles present in the team. For example, I'm running double Intimidate with Gyarados and Salamence (which is VERY helpful for dealing with certain physical threats), double Dragon with Salamence and Latios and double bulky-Steel with Bronzong and Heatran. Hence the name. :P Now without further stalling, here's some detailed analysis.

    Triple Double!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team Building Process (open)
    Team Building Process

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    I started off with Gyarados, a pokemon who's sweeping power and general utility has always impressed me. Running the Bulky Dragon Dance set I always used to run in 4th Gen, I immediately looked at what new pokemon threatened Gyarados' chances for a sweep. Two immediately came to my mind: Ferrothorn and Rotom-W. I decided to pick an offensive pokemon who could deal with both of them in all conditions, and my first thought was Nasty Plot Celebi with Giga Drain, Psychic and Hidden Power Fire.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Next, I decided that I needed a more general response to Dragon types, who could set up on my main STABs and threaten a sweep. I looked over several different options, such as LO Weavile and LO Starmie, but I eventually decided on running Scarf Latios instead, since not only did it pack HEAPS more power with Draco Meteor, it also had better bulk and utility in this circumstance. I've outsped Kingdras with this on Pokemon Online (Smogon's down!) and have been thoroughly grateful to have Latios involved so far.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Once the main offensive core had been established, I set to work laying defensive groundwork. I was thinking of what pokemon would complement my existing choices the best, and in the end I decided to simply double up on everything with Salamence. :P Using Salamence means that opponent not only has to deal with two powerful Dragon types during the match, they also have to account for two completely different Dragon Dance users and two different Intimidate users. Once the opponent thinks they've dealt with one, I just whip out the other and clean up. Salamence has amazing power and thanks to Intimidate, it also helps patch up my team against the physical threats it's generally weakest towards.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    At this point, I realised that both of my offensive partners were weak to Rock attacks, and I had no decent resist on the team. Hence, I decided to include a Rapid Spinner that could take any kind of Rock attack imaginable. My first choice was Excadrill with his 4x resistance, decent bulk and his ability to counteract the threat offensively, in addition to his ability to counteract Sandstorm teams and their respective Excadrill. However, I eventually decided to run Forretress instead, since he has the ridiculous Defense to take Rock attacks despite their neutrality. I then also I realised that Virizion resists Rock in a pinch, and thus felt less concerned with that matter. So I included Forretress for its ability to stack Spikes and aid offense, to Spin and aid longevity, and to annoy opponents with Gyro Ball and Pain Split. I'm willing to change this, Forretress is the weak link in the team but nonetheless fills a necessary role in my opinion.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    At this point, I noticed my team was quite weak to opposing Dragon types; if Latios had Tricked its Scarf and now risked being outsped, the game could end quickly. Forretress isn't the best check to Dragon types, with his 4x weakness to Fire and lacklustre Special Defense. So I decided to bring in Heatran, who not only patches up my team's Fire weakness but can also take Draco Meteors all day with a specially defensive set, using Stealth Rock, Toxic and Roar to discourage Dragons from staying in.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    However, I soon found that Celebi's multiple weaknesses, and inability to deal with Choiced Politoed was less than satisfactory, in addition to its reliance on a Hidden Power that was weakened by the omnipresent rain. I started to look for alternatives and found Virizion, who could take Politoed's Ice Beams all day, had a better speed tier (especially since it had a perfect speed IV with HP Ice) and a more useful STAB in Focus Blast. My only complaints were that Virizion was forced to use Calm Mind instead of the more immediate Nasty Plot, and that Focus Blast had such low accuracy, but I've been satisfied with their output so far and few games have been cost due to a Focus Blast miss. So Virizion replaced Celebi.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After extensive testing, I realised that I'd over-anticipated the need for Rapid Spin support, and thus I started looking for different options to put in Forretress' place. Bronzong seemed like the perfect candidate to replace him, since he had a much better defensive typing, much better special bulk and much better offensive capability. Rapid Spin was literally the only advantage that Forretress held over Bronzong to me, so the decision to replace him was a no brainer. In addition, Bronzong helped to patch up my team's weakness to Starmie and Excadrill, both of whom are easily defeated if Bronzong is at half health.


    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 152 HP / 168 Atk / 188 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce
    - Taunt

    And here's the star of the team, in the first slot! I don't lead with any particular pokemon in this metagame, just using Team Preview to see what the opponent's likely to do and preparing a response. Anyways, here's bulky DD Gyarados with a few changes. First of all, I'm running Bounce and Taunt. Waterfall + Bounce gives me amazing neutral coverage, failing only against Rotom-W, Empoleon, and Grass / Water types with Protect. Taunt lets me shut down pokemon that could otherwise phase or set up on me, such as Skarmory, and also prevents opponents from using Protect to block Bounce. Intimidate is used to help Gyarados set up as many boosts as necessary (and to deal with physical attackers in general) In my opinion, if you're doing Dragon Dance right, you don't need the boosts that Moxie provides. :P The EVs come from the standard set, outspeeding Scarf Tyranitar after a boost whilst still retaining good physical bulk. I've moved the Defense EVs into attack since Gyarados appreciates the power, and I'm not concerned in the slightest about Scizor's Quick Attack.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Roost

    Salamence is Gyarados' dancing partner, and helps to clean up when Gyarados is finished (or vice versa, depending) This Salamence is more offensively orientated, since its weakness to Ice is more common than Gyarados' weakness to Electric. Plus, Salamence gets incredibly powerful STAB in Outrage, which lets it power through a lot of opponents after a single boost. Base 100 speed is also very nice, and is maxed to ensure that +1 Salamence at least ties with Scarfed base 100's. Earthquake is also boosted by Dragon Dance and provides good coverage in general; opponents such as Bronzong and Skarmory which aren't hit by this combination are dealt with by Heatran. Roost provides Salamence with instant recovery, and gives him a net increase in health as Gliscor tries to Ice Fang it. The EVs are straightforward, if anyone has any suggestions then I'm willing to try them out! I've also decided to use Lum Berry over Leftovers, since Salamence already has instant recovery in Roost, and Burns and Paralysis have generally been the main obstacle to Salamence's rampage. Plus, it lets me avoid Outrage's confusion in the best case scenario. :)

    [​IMG]
    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Trick

    Latios' primary role is to outspeed EVERYTHING and hit stuff hard with either Draco Meteor or its coverage options. With 525 Speed, Latios outspeeds all Dragon Dancers and ties with all Scarfed Dragons in the tier, as well as Scarf Gengar. Draco Meteor is Latios' pointy stick, dealing severe damage to most things that stay in on it. Thunderbolt allows Latios to check other DD Gyarados reliably, and punishes bulky Waters in general, whilst Hidden Power Fire lets me kill Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor if I predict correctly, which since nice considering CB Scizor can KO with either U-Turn or Pursuit. These moves provide fantastic coverage between each other and let me hit plenty of things hard on the switch if I predict correctly. Whilst I lose the speed tie against other Scarf Latios, Bronzong and Heatran can take Latios' attacks very well and will force him out regardless with Payback and Roar. Trick is exceptionally useful and lets me deal with special walls (and especially Eviolite users like Chansey) more effectively, and lets me change Latios' role as needed during a match. I've been considering running Psychic or Psyshock over Thunderbolt or Trick, but I'm unsure. I can see the utility of Psychic moves in dealing with the myriad Fighting types of the tier, but then again I know not to underestimate the threat of Gyarados! :P

    [​IMG]
    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 Def
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Payback

    Bronzong is the new physically defensive Steel tank for the team, and replaces Forretress. In testing, I didn't really use Rapid Spin enough to justify me running a spinner, so I decided to run something with more offensive capacity in Forretress' place. Bronzong has excelled in this role so far, not only tanking Outrages and setting up hazards but also being able to take Draco Meteors! Not only this, but Bronzong's Gyro Ball actually has considerable power, and Bronzong has plenty of other offensive options to use in certain situations. For example, Earthquake significantly damages Heatran on the switch and lets me kill Excadrill, whilst Payback lets me kill Starmie if I hit it on the switch, and hit it again after it tries to attack. Mamoswine is also dealt with, as its STABs are walled and Gyro Ball is an OHKO. The EVs are specific: 252 HP gives Bronzong as much general bulk as possible, 204 Atk EVs allow the combination of Gyro Ball + Earthquake to always kill Balloon Excadrill and allows Payback to 2HKO Starmie if it switches in (so a 50 BP attack when Starmie comes in and a 100 BP attack the next turn), and the rest of the EVs are put in Defense to help take Outrages. A Relaxed nature is used since none of my other stats really need boosting and Bronzong appreciates the extra physical bulk.

    [​IMG]
    Virizion @ Life Orb
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power Ice

    Virizion is here primarily for one purpose: to take out Gyarados' most prominent checks and possibly do a little bit of sweeping before he comes in. With an excellent speed tier, powerful STAB attacks, a boosting move and titanic special bulk, Virizion is an underestimated threat in the tier that deserves more recognition. Although Virizion initially lacks power, it generally comes in on Water types that can't threaten it, giving it time to set up a few boosts before healing any residual damage with Giga Drain. Focus Blast is immensely powerful, and after a few boosts it deals with Jirachi well enough. Hidden Power Ice gives me coverage against Flying types that wall my STABs, and helps me continue to remove opposing Dragon types that could threaten Salamence's sweep. I'm considering using Hidden Power Rock instead since it decimates Volcarona, who Virizion can outspeed, but I'm not sure if it's worth the general utility of Hidden Power Ice. Notable fact: At +2 Virizion manages to OHKO the standard Blissey with Focus Blast, few Blissey expect it deal this much damage. :)

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpD / 32 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Taunt
    - Toxic
    - Roar

    And here's the last pokemon on my team; specially defensive Heatran with a few changes. Although having two Intimidators certainly helps me defend against physical attackers, the added Burn chance of Lava Plume is very useful in dealing not only with most Steels, but also offensive threats that try to get the jump on Heatran. Since almost all of my team deals with Heatran pretty well, I've decided to run Taunt on Heatran instead of Earth Power or another weak offensive move, since this helps me break stall teams more effectively. Even without speed investment, Heatran outspeeds most walls in the tier and can thus render them useless. Jellicent who try to switch will be hit by Toxic and rendered unable to Recover via Taunt, letting me switch Virizion safely into Scald or Shadow Ball. Blissey is also rendered setup bait for Salamence, without being able to Thunder Wave it on the switch. The speed EVs all me to outspeed Dragonites with no investment, letting Heatran Taunt and Toxic parashuffler sets, preventing them from paralysing my pokemon. Overall, Taunt helps make Heatran a more viable pviot for my offensive core. Toxic lets me deal with bulky waters on the switch and is generally useful; opponents like Jellicent will often stay in and Scald me for pitiful damage. Roar lets me capitalise on Stealth Rock and Heatran's inherent ability to cause switches, letting me cut down teams that are weak to the hazard. It also deals effectively with Calm Minders like Latias who think they can boost with impunity.

    Okay! That's the team so far, hope you enjoyed reading. Let me know if there's any ways I could improve the team.

    Previous Team Members! (open)
    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power Fire

    Celebi was used originally instead of Virizion, and was actually pretty damn good at being the offensive Grass type. It certainly had more power than Virizion behind its Giga Drain. However, Virizion had a much better typing, a more powerful and useful secondary STAB, and the option to run a different Hidden Power. Virizion's lovely base 108 speed is also very helpful since it outspeeds opponents like max speed Jirachi, most Dragons and a lot of stuff in general, whilst base 100 with an imperfect IV was a little lacklustre. Furthermore, Celebi couldn't take two Ice Beams from Politoed, whilst Virizion can freely set up on it with its amazing special defense, which tipped the balance in Virizion's favor.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Pain Split

    Forretress initially provided a lot of things for the team, such as hazard support, spin support and the ability to tank Outrages all day long. However, I eventually decided that Forretress wasn't really adding anything, as there were very few scenarios where Rapid Spin was actually necessary. After testing Bronzong for a while, he just proved to be better at everything. He takes Outrages well enough, and Draco Meteors considerably better. He actually has offensive presence and can hit a lot of stuff hard on the switch, he can even deal with Excadrill and Starmie which my team proved quite weak to. Forretress was just outclassed, and unless I decide I desperately need Rapid Spin again I'm not going back.
  2. DC.

    DC. Eu estou aqui

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    279
    you're also using double steel, double flying and double dragon dance. best rate
  3. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    Hi, interesting team you have. This team seems really well built, and you seem to have most of the threats in today's metagame covered. However, you do seem a bit weak to Thundurus - Thunder does mighty damage to most of you team, and if Latios is gone, it outspeeds your team and hits almost all of them Super Effectively with Thunderbolt and HP Ice. Thus, it might be a good idea to switch out a member of you team with Specially Defensive Quagsire: Curse / Recover / Earthquake / Stone Edge | Leftovers| Unaware |Careful | 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD. Heatran is my thought for a replacement, as Quagsire can handle special threats well enough as it is.

    Hope this helped!
  4. LighTz911

    LighTz911

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    233
    You should replace Dragon Pulse for Stealth Rock and remove Stealth Rock on Forretress for an attacking move such as Gyro Ball so that Forretress isn't walled.
  5. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    I tried using Gyro Ball on Forretress, and honestly it's not really worth it. There's only a few things it does good damage against, and in those cases I'd rather be using Virizion or Gyarados to attack. Dragon Pulse has been handy on Heatran so far and can 2HKO some Dragons, letting me clean them up easily.
  6. S Bird Of Tokyo

    S Bird Of Tokyo

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    I like this team, and can say you honestly have some understanding of Pokemon. But I have done A LOT of testing with Scarf Latios and have found the best set

    Draco Meteor
    Surf
    Hidden Power (Fire)
    Trick

    Thunderbolt is not great for bulky waters like Jellicent. Trick anything bulky. Ice Beam may seem good because you can keep spamming it without switching but it is not really necesarry. Surf is better because it hits the standard Latios counter, Heatran. HP Fire obviously takes Ferrothorn. You may feel that loosing a valueable IV in Speed is not worth it but being able to Counter Ferrothorn with one of Latios potential counters means it is a much more balanced Poke. Trick is better than Psyshock, 252 Sp D, 252 HP Blissey only exists in Uber these days while Chansey is even less affected. Psychic is good but a Neutral Draco does more.

    Have trialed every Spinner in existance. Forretress is the best Pokemon if you just want a Spinner. Donphan is good if you want Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock. Starmie and Excadrill are good if you want a Spinner who can do something outside of spinning. Excadrill is your best option. Jolly Excadrill with Air Balloon (standard stuff) is a good option.

    But yeah, nice Indie Team: 7 / 10
  7. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Thanks for the rate! I think I might try running Surf on Latios over Ice Beam since it hits a lot of the same stuff and as you said deals with Heatran more effectively. I'm keeping Thunderbolt however since Ferrothorn is taken down more effectively by Heatran and Virizion, and since Latios is one of my only checks to offensive Starmie, which I've just realised can potentially run through my team otherwise. Virizion can take an Ice Beam but if he's down, and Latios can't outspeed then I'm swept. Any advice on what I can do to reduce my Starmie weakness?

    I've had another idea! To be honest, the team isn't that much more vulnerable to hazards than the average team, so perhaps a spinner isn't required at all. Maybe I should just use an offensive pokemon that can use Taunt and Magic Coat to help stop hazards before they're set up. I'm thinking Deoxys-S would be a good option, with Spikes / Taunt / Psycho Boost / Thunderbolt?
  8. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,103
    Hi GtM,

    I like this team and it looks pretty solid, but i have a few suggestions that should make it much better.

    Problems / Threats

    • Excadrill, Double Dance Terrakion
    You don't really have a check for Excadrill at all, because intimidate with two Pokemon that are weak to rock slide doesn't really cut it for countering this guy. If dory gets a swords dance up, a +1 LO rock slide is still going to KO salamence or gyarados. Double Dance (swords dance and rock polish) can also be very troublesome for your team. if it can get both boosts up your pretty much screwed. Like i said for dory, intimidators don't really cut it to counter strong threats like this. Your only check is scarf latios which is outsped after a rock polish and KO'd after a bit of prior damage.

    Solutions

    • Gliscor
    If you make this change you will have a sure-fire check to both terrakion and doryuuzu. i would recommend swapping this guy in for forretress on your team, since like you said, he's not a key component. With the lack of rocks i would put stealth rocks on heatran over roar or dragon pulse (your call, underlining it so you notice). I would try out this set:

    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpD)
    -Swords Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Fang
    -Taunt

    With taunt gliscor can even beat skarmory, which is huge for opening up a sweep for gyarados and salamence.

    Good luck!
  9. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Hi Lamppost. Thanks for taking the time to rate my team so thoroughly. I've tested out Bronzong in Forretress' place and been very pleased with the results. I also like your Gliscor suggestion, but he's not as able to take Dragon attacks which is my main concern. What's your opinion on the matter? Excadrill is obviously destroyed by Bronzong, whilst Terrakion is OHKOed by Gyro Ball.

    I've also decided against using Surf over Ice Beam on Latios, since I've realised that its my main method of dealing with Thundurus. Overall, I'd say the ability to stop Thundurus is more important than the ability to 2HKO Heatran (especially when I have Gyarados and Salamence to deal with him)
  10. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    BUMP, RESERVED FOR THREAT LIST.

    I've made some significant changes to the team as well. I'm now using HP Fire instead of Ice Beam on Latios to deal with Scizor switchins and the like, and Heatran is running a new set with Lava Plume and Taunt! I'll also be making a threatlist, more feedback would be appreciated! Notably, Latios is not running Surf since the rest of my team deals with Heatran very well, and I honestly wouldn't use it against anything else.

    Threat List
    [​IMG] Abomasnow: Virizion acts as a great lure, setting up a Calm Mind and surviving Blizzard with plenty of HP to spare, before OHKOing with Focus Blast. Heatran obviously deals with Abomasnow, Taunting it to prevent Sub-Seed or using Lava Plume to OHKO it. Bronzong also takes nothing from its attacks and can set up Stealth Rock on it, but it must be careful around Sub-Seeders. By which I mean it should just Gyro Ball straight away.
    [​IMG] Azelf: Nasty Plot sets are outsped and OHKO'd by Latios should they choose to stay in. Gyarados and Salamence can also set up a Dragon Dance should Azelf try to boost, outspeeding and OHKOing it with their STAB attacks. The hazard leads can be annoying since they almost always get Rocks up, unless they try and Taunt Latios or something stupid like that.

    [​IMG] Azumarill: Gyarados and Salamence can take -1 Aqua Jets all day, with Gyarados being able to switch in with impunity and Salamence only really fearing Ice Punch. Latios can also take Aqua Jets and 2HKOes with Thunderbolt or Draco Meteor, whilst Virizion can come in on most attacks and heal with Giga Drain. Sub-Punchers can be a bigger issue for Virizion, but the loss of Return makes them easier for Gyarados to deal with.

    [​IMG] Bisharp: Otherwise known as SUCKER PUNCH. Defiant makes him a tough nut to crack with this team, and if I'm using my Intimidate users to deal with him I need to be /very/ careful. Thankfully Bisharp's reliance on Sucker Punch to be effective can be abused. Latios can get him to Sucker Punch as he's Tricked a Scarf, letting Gyarados and Salamence set up on him with impunity, stalling him out of PP or forcing a switch. Virizion can take anything from Bisharp on the switch and OHKO him with Focus Blast (well duh)

    [​IMG] Breloom: Annoying, as his presence basically ensures that one of my team members falls asleep. On the other hand, unless he runs Stone Edge he can't really dent Salamence at all at -1, and if one of my other pokemon takes the Spore I can boost with impunity. If he comes in on Heatran, Heatran outspeeds and can Taunt him to block Spore, or Lava Plume to OHKO.

    [​IMG]Blissey: Heatran can come in on it and force it out with Taunt and Roar, preventing it from healing its teammates or doing anything useful. Latios can Trick its Scarf onto it in a pinch, whilst Virizion can OHKO most Blissey with a +2 Focus Blast. Gyarados and Salamence have a field day against this thing, unless it packs Thunderbolt or Ice Beam. Salamence can even come in on status moves and force it out thanks to the Lum Berry.

    [​IMG] Bronzong: Gyarados stops it flat in its tracks and forces it out immediately. Salamence can attempt to feign Fire Blast and also force it out as it Dragon Dances. Latios can hit it decently hard with HP Fire, and Heatran can deal significant damage with Lava Plume so long as it doesn't switch in on Earthquake. Virizion can boost against it but doesn't like taking Gyro Balls.

    [​IMG] Celebi: Bronzong walls it to the ends of the earth and can deal significant damage with Payback and Gyro Ball. Not even a +2 LO HP Fire manages to OHKO Bronzong, most of the time. Latios can come in and threaten it with Draco Meteor or HP Fire, whilst Heatran takes any attack other than Earth Power and can phase Celebi out before it boosts to dangerous levels.

    [​IMG] Cloyster: Ah, Shell Smash. Bronzong walls it unless it runs Razor Shell, and even then it's only dealing 49.1% - 58% with an Adamant nature. Meanwhile, Bronzong can 2HKO a boosted Cloyster with Gyro Ball. It's a close one, but Bronzong wins most of the time. Latios also outspeeds it even at +2 and can OHKO Cloyster easily. It just has to watch out for a possible Ice Shard.
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr: If he doesn't have Rock Slide or Stone Edge, Gyarados and Salamence deal with him easily. Latios can deal a significant chunk of damage with Draco Meteor, or Trick a Scarf onto him as he uses Bulk Up.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]Darmanitan: Gyarados and Salamence can take a -1 Scarfed Flare Blitz and force him out, getting free boosts. Heatran can also take a Flare Blitz and use a boosted Lava Plume to cripple any switch-ins. If I predict a Rock Slide, Bronzong takes the hit like a champ and sets up Stealth Rock for free.
    [​IMG]Deoxys-S: Latios outspeeds and OHKOs offensive variants with Draco Meteor. Whilst he can outspeed everything else, Heatran takes little from any of his attacks and can force him out with Lava Plume or Roar. Bronzong also takes little damage from anything and gets to set up Stealth Rock. If it runs Taunt then things get a little hairy, but Bronzong's Gyro Ball and Payback deal significant damage, almost OHKOing it.

    [​IMG] Dragonite: Offensive Dragonite with Multiscale and Dragon Dance can be annoying to deal with, and is my main reason for considering Ice Beam on Latios. Bronzong can take most of its attacks but can't really force it out, with Gyro Ball not 2HKOing a +1 Dragonite if Multiscale activates. If Multiscale is broken, Latios can come in and Draco Meteor it to death, or lure an Outrage so that Bronzong can trap and kill Dragonite. My best defense against Dragonite is setting up Stealth Rock, thus breaking Multiscale and allowing my teammates to OHKO Dragonite with the right moves.
    [​IMG] Druddigon - Ha.
    [​IMG] Eelektross - If I predict correctly, I can usually get Latios in and OHKO with Draco Meteor, but I need to be careful working around this thing's excellent movepool. Virizion deals with it fairly well, as with its massive Special Defense it can take anything but a combination of Acid Spray and Flamethrower, get a Calm Mind boost and proceed to OHKO with +1 Focus Blast. Heatran walls it for most part and can use Lava Plume, Toxic or Roar with impunity.

    [​IMG] Electivire - It's much the same deal as Eelektross, really. If it doesn't use Ice Punch, Latios can Draco Meteor it. Whilst Virizion and Heatran can't wall it, they can both lure in Fire Punch and Earthquake respectively, letting Salamence come, Intimidate him and OHKO with Earthquake. Bronzong is also fairly unaffected by anything other than Fire Punch and can deal significant damage with Earthquake.
    [​IMG] Emboar - This team destroys Infernape, so what do you think it does to this chap? Gyarados can come in on anything other than Wild Charge and OHKO with Waterfall, Salamence can come in on ANYTHING and set up free Dragon Dances. Latios can force it out or hit it hard with Draco Meteor.
    [​IMG] Empoleon - Since the Petaya Berry isn't released yet for Wifi, I don't see this thing running offensive sets.
    [​IMG]Espeon - If it tries to come in on Bronzong's Stealth Rock, it gets a faceful of Payback or Gyro Ball. Latios can outspeed and OHKO with Draco Meteor so long as it hasn't boosted, and it can 2HKO if it has. For the most part, Gyarados and Salamence can set up on it, provided it hasn't been passed a load of Speed or Special Attack boosts by a teammate.
    [​IMG] Escavalier - HEATRAN. Absolutely hard counters this thing. It also can't deal too much damage to Gyarados and Salamence, if I cycle from Gyarados to Salamence and stack the Intimidates I can even stall out its insane Choice Band Megahorn.
    [​IMG] Excadrill - A threat against any team. Thankfully, Bronzong can take any of its attacks and 2HKO with a combination of Gyro Ball + Earthquake. Virizion can also come in on it if it hasn't boosted and OHKO with Focus Blast. If these two pokemon are down or Excadrill has sufficiently boosted, though, it's gg.
    [​IMG] Gengar - Annoying prick. Virizion can take its attacks and get some Calm Mind boosts, but it can only hit Gengar for decent damage with HP Ice, so Sub-Disable sets are somewhat of a problem. If it hasn't got a Sub up, Latios can outspeed and OHKO with Draco Meteor.
    [​IMG] Golurk - Golurk can't do a lot to Salamence and Gyarados, who resist and Intimidate his Focus Punch and can set up on him. If it hasn't got a Sub up, Virizion can also hit it super effectively. Bronzong can take most of its attacks in a pinch and hit back with Payback.
    [​IMG] Gyarados - Latios outspeeds offensive Gyarados at +1 and bulky sets at +2, and can OHKO with Thunderbolt. If necessary I can switch between Gyarados and Salamence, Intimidating him should he try to attack and negating his offensive boosts.
    [​IMG] Haxorus - Latios outspeeds Haxorus at +1 and OHKOs with Draco Meteor. Bronzong can kinda sorta take Haxorus' Outrage, but it's bloody powerful. If it then tries to Earthquake Bronzong using Mold Breaker, I can switch into Gyarados to Intimidate him and increase my chances of winning. Heatran can also take an Outrage in a pinch and aim for a burn with Lava Plume.
    [​IMG] Heatran - Gyarados can set up on Heatran with impunity, and if it lacks Dragon Pulse or Hidden Power Ice Salamence can do the same. If it can get in, Virizion can outspeed and OHKO most Heatran with Focus Blast. If Virizion dares, it can also set up a Calm Mind and survive most Fire Blasts.

    [​IMG] Heracross - Gyarados and Salamence both do a fairly good job of Intimidating him and coming in on his STABs. If it tries to use Stone Edge, Bronzong can come in and start firing off Gyro Balls. Latios also outspeeds and can 2HKO with Draco Meteor or HP Fire, which is useful if it's locked into Close Combat (in which case, Draco Meteor OHKOes)
    [​IMG] Hydreigon - Can be a pain since it has such a good movepool, but if Virizion gets in it can outspeed, set up Calm Minds to survive Flamethrower and strike back with a boosted HP Ice or Focus Blast. Heatran can also wall most variants and force it out. Latias outspeeds and OHKOes with Draco Meteor.
    [​IMG]Infernape - Gyarados and Salamence can set up on it with impunity should it lack Thunderpunch or HP Ice respectively. Latios can come in on its STABs and OHKO with Draco Meteor.
    [​IMG] Jirachi - The standard specially defensive set is a massive pain in the arse. Heatran can come in on it and ward it off with Lava Plume and Taunt, but otherwise it can come in on my entire team (if Gyarados and Salamence lack boosts) and spam Body Slam and Iron Head. Thankfully Salamence has been updated to do better against Jirachi, using Lum Berry to get a free boost and avoid Paralysis and proceeding to OHKO with Earthquake. But if Jirachi runs Ice Punch... grrr...
    [​IMG] Jolteon - Virizion walls it and can set up in its face, even if it does run HP Ice, whilst Heatran can tank its attacks and 2HKO it with Lava Plume. Latios outspeeds and OHKOes with Draco Meteor, as usual.
    [​IMG] Kingdra - Double Dance sets can be kind of threatening, but I can force it to Outrage with Gyarados or force it to Draco Meteor with Virizion. Then Bronzong can just come in on it, set up Stealth Rock and hit back with Earthquake or Payback. Latios and Salamence outspeed it outside of rain and can OHKO it with their respective STABs.
    [​IMG] Krookodile - The Scarf set is beaten pretty easily by Gyarados and Salamence, who can set up in its face unless it uses Stone Edge. Virizion also walls everything it commonly carries and can set up a Calm Mind. Bronzong can come in on Earthquake and set up Stealth Rock or Gyro Ball, Latios outspeeds and can finish it off if it's weakened... yeah. This thing isn't doing shit against this team.
    [​IMG] Kyurem - Bronzong can take its attacks all day and hit it hard with Gyro Ball. Heatran can do the same if it's locked into anything other than Focus Blast. Latios outspeeds and OHKOes with Draco Meteor.
    [​IMG] Landorus - Bronzong walls it completely and can 2HKO with Gyro Ball whilst setting up Stealth Rock. If it's locked into Earthquake, Gyarados and Salamence can also come in on it and get free boosts.
    [​IMG]Latios - Scarfed variants are thankfully easy enough to predict, switching Bronzong or Heatran into Draco Meteor will usually force it out. If not, Bronzong's Payback 2HKOes. I have to be wary of Trick, however. If it's not Scarfed, then Latios outspeeds and OHKOes blah blah blah.
    [​IMG] Lilligant - Switch Salamence into Sleep Powder, OHKO it with Outrage, receive bacon. Heatran walls it no matter what attacks it runs and can force it out. So can Bronzong in most cases. The only threatening thing about this pokemon is Sleep Powder, and thanks to Sleep Clause I only have to worry about it once.
    [​IMG] Lucario - Gyarados can Intimidate and wall the standard set. If it doesn't run Ice Punch, Salamence can do the same. If it tries to come in Bronzong and boost, I can OHKO it with Earthquake. Virizion outspeeds and OHKOes with Focus Blast, whilst Latios outspeeds and OHKOes with HP Fire, although both of them have to be careful around Extremespeed.
    [​IMG] Machamp - Annoying because of the confusion, but if I'm lucky with that then Gyarados can just come in and OHKO with Bounce. If I see a Machamp lead, I'm going with Gyarados, no question. Salamence is also decent but is hit hard by Ice Punch and I'm not sure if Outrage OHKOes. One of the reasons I want to run Psychic or Psyshock in Latios.
    [​IMG] Magnezone - Heatran can come in on him with impunity and use Lava Plume, possibly burning any Dragons that try to switch in and use Earthquake. If he lacks HP Ice, Salamence can also come in on him easily, set up a Dragon Dance and proceed to wipe out most Dragon based teams. Virizion can also take any of its attacks, set up a Calm Mind and OHKO with Focus Blast. Latios can also do well against it with HP Fire.
    [​IMG] Mamoswine - Bronzong completely walls this and OHKOes with Gyro Ball. Gyarados can come in on it if it lacks Stone Edge and set up free boosts or simply OHKOing with Waterfall if it does have Stone Edge.
    [​IMG] Metagross - Haven't seen a lot of these, but generally they fare poorly against Bronzong, who can deal significant damage with Earthquake and set up Stealth Rocks. Gyarados also does pretty well, setting up a boost normally, but I must remember that Clear Body blocks Intimidate and that it occasionally runs Thunderpunch.
    [​IMG] Mienshao - Bronzong! If he wants to Hi Jump Kick, Gyarados appreciates the courtesy.
    [​IMG] Reuniclus -
    [​IMG] Roserade -
    [​IMG]Salamence -
    [​IMG] Sawsbuck -
    [​IMG] Scizor -
    [​IMG] Scrafty-
    [​IMG] Seismitoad -
    [​IMG] Serperior -
    [​IMG]Shaymin -
    [​IMG] Sigilyph -
    [​IMG] Smeargle -
    [​IMG]Starmie -
    [​IMG] Terakion -
    [​IMG] Thundurus -
    [​IMG] Togekiss -
    [​IMG] Tornadus -
    [​IMG] Tyranitar -
    [​IMG]Venusaur -
    [​IMG] Victini -
    [​IMG] Virizion -
    [​IMG] Volcarona -
    [​IMG] Weavile -
    [​IMG] Zoroark -
  11. fatsnorlax

    fatsnorlax

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    449
    This looks like a great team, not much more to say(:
  12. The Tyranitar

    The Tyranitar

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    147
    If you use Gliscor like Lamppost suggested, use over Bronzong. Minor nitpick if you intimidate Bisharp Defiant will give him +2 Attack but if you switch forever you win from PP stall :p so just don't try to KO it.
  13. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    I talked to Lamppost about Gliscor, and he says that Bronzong is fine. I prefer running Bronzong on this team since it can take Outrages from Dragons all day and Gyro Ball the hell out of them. Plus Landorus, Mienshao etc all run Ice moves now, and using Bronzong lets me deal with them more absolutely. Although I wish Bronzong had as good recovery as Gliscor :P

    Also, yeah I haven't faced any Bisharp. :P I'll amend the threat list.

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