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Tropius

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Shame That, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. Shame That

    Shame That night after night
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    [​IMG]
    Goes crazy when you nibble its chin


    [Overview]

    <p>Tropius is a Pokemon that has often been brushed under the rug, tossed aside in favor of bulkier or more powerful choices that share its typing. It has a decent defensive typing, with three resistances and an immunity to Ground-type attacks. It also has decent bulk to complement this, boasting 99 / 83 / 87 defenses. So what exactly is it that is stopping Tropius from wreaking havoc everywhere? Well for starters, it is cursed with subpar offensive stats and sluggish Speed. Its typing can be a problem defensively, causing Tropius to have weaknesses to five common attacking types. This problem is made even worse when considering Tropius's weakness to Stealth Rock, severely reducing the amount of times it can safely switch in. However, if after hearing this you still want to use Tropius, you will find there are a few sets it can pull off quite well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Protect
    move 4: Air Slash / Roost
    item: Sitrus Berry
    ability: Harvest
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set plays to Tropius's strengths, using its solid bulk to stall the opponent into oblivion. Leech Seed provides steady, flowing damage, slowly weakening your opponent while healing Tropius. To add to this, an ability in Harvest and a Sitrus Berry as the item can often recover a large amount of Tropius's health. Substitute is useful for blocking status moves, and can be used to try and alleviate Tropius's weaknesses to common attacking types. Protect is a beautiful move for this set; it provides an extra turn for getting Leech Seed recovery, a chance at restoring HP with Sitrus Berry, which will be regained through Harvest, and can help to prolong the "lifespan" of Tropius's Substitutes. The last slot is mainly a filler; Air Slash is Tropius's only form of offense and ensures that it isn't completely shut down by Taunt or Grass-types, whereas Roost can give Tropius even more survivability. However, since Tropius will already be gaining back copious amounts of health from Leech Seed and Sitrus Berry, Air Slash will usually be the move of choice here.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum investment in Defense and HP, along with a Bold nature, help to make Tropius as physically bulky as possible. Entry hazard support can be excellent for Tropius, helping it rack up damage and weaken its opponents; Toxic Spikes deserve a mention here, as they are incredible in aiding Tropius's stalling prowess. Speaking of stalling, Toxic is an option in the last slot to greatly bolster Tropius's stalling abilities, just as Toxic Spikes do. Toxic also has the advantage of being able to hit Flying-type Pokemon, as well as opponents with Levitate, which Toxic Spikes cannot do. If Tropius is unfortunate enough to switch in on a status inducing move, and becomes afflicted with paralysis or something of the sort, a cleric can come in handy. Teammates such as Miltank can provide Heal Bell support, curing Tropius of any stray statuses that might come its way. Speaking of teammates, Rapid Spin support is absolutely required. Kabutops makes for a decent teammate here, as while it doesn't have the best defensive stats, its typing pairs indescribably well with Tropius's.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Growth
    move 1: Growth
    move 2: SolarBeam
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Timid / Naive
    evs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is Tropius's best shot at sweeping. Assuming sunlight is present, Growth boosts Tropius's Special Attack and Attack by two stages, and with Chlorophyll, Tropius immediately becomes a lethal offensive threat. SolarBeam is a strong STAB move, and is the best choice since it does not force Tropius to waste a turn charging in sunlight. Air Slash is another specially based STAB attack, and even has the potential to flinch your opponent. Hidden Power Fire rounds off the set, providing extra coverage and gaining a pseudo-STAB from sunlight. Earthquake is an option for hitting Magneton extremely hard, but has trouble dealing good damage to anything else due to Tropius's low Attack stat.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is fairly outclassed by other Chlorophyll users, such as Victreebel, Tangrowth, and Exeggutor, who have better offensive stats. The only bonus to using Tropius is its decent Special Defense, so consider this when choosing it for your team. Maximum Special Attack EVs are used to let Tropius hit as hard as possible, and the Speed EVs, when combined with a Timid nature, let Tropius outspeed Modest Choice Scarf Porygon-Z and Timid Accelgor when under the sun. Timid is the best choice for this set if you aren't using Earthquake, but if you are, Naive would be a better option.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support greatly extends Tropius's longevity, letting it switch into an opponent without losing a large chunk of health to Stealth Rock. Claydol is a good choice for spinning away Stealth Rock, due to an immunity to Spikes and a resistance to Stealth Rock. Kabutops is another great option for this role, and while it may not have the best defensive stats, it has incredible type synergy with Tropius. Speaking of entry hazards, users of Spikes make great teammates for Tropius, helping it to break through tougher opponents by damaging them every time they switch in. Cleric support is incredibly helpful, curing Tropius of the statuses that it so dearly hates. Sun support is absolutely crucial for this set, no matter what. Without sun, SolarBeam does not function nearly as well, Hidden Power Fire does not get a power boost, Growth does not boost offensive stats by two stages, and Tropius doesn't get the Speed boost from Chlorophyll.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Dragon Dance might seem like an excellent option, but Tropius cannot utilize it effectively; Tropius's best physical move is Leaf Blade, which is illegal with Dragon Dance, relegating it to using Razor Leaf and Aerial Ace for STAB moves. Return can be used to provide slightly better neutral coverage, but is generally not needed. Synthesis can be used in the sun for massive healing; however, if the sun fades, Tropius can be in a tight spot. Solar Power shouldn't even be considered, as Tropius is outclassed here in almost every way by Charizard. A Curse set could be used with Trick Room support, but requires a few turns of setup to become effective, and puts Tropius's sweep on somewhat of a short timer. Tropius is able to set up sunlight by itself and sweep with no team support; however, this means giving up a coverage move, so choose wisely. Swords Dance is an option for boosting, but Tropius is somewhat slow outside of sunlight, and in sunlight, Swords Dance is basically just Growth without boosting its Special Attack. A RestTalk set with Curse or Swords Dance alongside Leaf Blade might seem possible, but Tropius is just a little bit lacking in bulk, and Grass-type attacks have somewhat poor coverage. Harvest is an option as an ability on a set other than SubSeed, making sets such as ChestoRest and a Growth set with Sitrus Berry viable. Beware though, these strategies can be risky, and rely on a little bit of luck.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Fire- and Poison-type Pokemon can counter Tropius very well, resisting its Grass-type STAB attacks and being able to retaliate with super effective attacks. Moltres and Weezing stand out here, as they are immune to Earthquake. Altaria walls Tropius in almost every respect, and can phaze out Tropius with Roar. Setting up Stealth Rock and either knocking out Tropius's Rapid Spin user or carrying a spinblocker is basically checkmate; Tropius can't switch in many times after that before fainting from residual damage. Clefable is absolutely terrifying, tanking all of Tropius's special attacks and taking no residual damage from Toxic or Leech Seed due to Magic Guard. Mandibuzz can Taunt Tropius into using nothing but special attacks, which Mandibuzz can tank with ease, stalling out Tropius with a combination of Roost, Toxic, and Brave Bird. Keep in mind that even with a cleric on its team, Tropius hates status, so Thunder Wave and Toxic users can greatly help in taking down Tropius. Fire- and Ice-types with decent defensive investment can tear straight through Tropius with their super effective STAB attacks.</p>
  2. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

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    Hmm, this is pretty good, didn't know tropius was available.

    You might want to merge the offensive sets, and throw the remnants into OO. Tropius isn't strong enough for a choice band imo, and also on solar power you shouldn't have 2 STAB moves, I would put leaf storm in OO and have Sbeam as primary STAB.

    Also the order of the EVs should be HP/atk/def/spatk/spdef/spe, just fix that on the solar set.
  3. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
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    Er... Did I misread? There wasn't a CB Tropius set. And I don't see anything wrong with his EV order. But I'm agreeing double Grass-type attacks is pretty weird. It's the same set as the DpP one, but then again, I can't think of another viable move to use over one of those Grass-type moves. Other than Roost and Synthesis, there isn't much that can fill that slot. Tropius's movepool is really limited :/
  4. col49

    col49 mi amor
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    umm, I'm pretty sure Harvest in actually released, so ya don't need the DW section. First off, Blizzspam overall in Checks and Counters, cuz that just ruins Trop overall. On the note of Harvest, you may want to mention unlimited Chesto-Rest somewhere, it makes Trop pretty annoying to take down.
  5. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

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    Sorry typo I meant that the solar power set has a choice specs slash, and I dont think its viable.
  6. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
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    Oh. Just copying what DPP analysis said:

    Modest + Solar Power Boost + Choice Specs = 600 SpA (bleh just realised the OP had that too)

    which I guess is super high... O.O anyway, I find Solar Power + LO recoil somewhat too much. And it's SR weak. It's effectively dead in like 3 turns? :/ I think Synthesis or Roost on the Solar Power set won't be a bad idea :P
  7. scienceguy

    scienceguy

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    I think that the SD set is mostly outclassed by a growth set which can make use of hp fire which hits most of the same things that aerial ace does. hp fire can also ohkos scarfed Snover or 2hko defensive Snover (with rocks) which switches in to make hail the weather in play. so maybe a set like this would be better:

    name: Growth
    move 1: Growth
    move 2: Solar Beam/Leaf Blade/Energy Ball
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Earthquake/Air Slash
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Rash/Naughty
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    This set plays from the special attack stat, but you can use Leaf Blade as your grass stab and shift EVs from SpA to Atk for a more physical set. This does not affect HP fire's ability to ko Snover, as an uninvested HP fire will always 2hko defensive Snover, taking account of rocks. Energy Ball is there in case you're scared of a weather inducer, but team preview should keep that threat at bay. Earthquake because it's awesome, but Air Slash in case you want to go all special/want that stab.

    I guess I'll give some calcs to back up the claims:
    0 SpA Naughty Tropius @ Life Orb vs. 252 Hp/252 SpD Calm Snover = 42-49.2%
    that's always a 2hko with rocks on the most defensive Snover possible
    0 SpA Naughty Tropius @ Life Orb vs. Choice Scarf Snover = 103%

    so yeah... hidden power fire...
  8. Shame That

    Shame That night after night
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    Thanks guys. I'll update with Growth set this afternoon.
  9. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Umm, I'm not sure if you did this on purpose, but your link takes you to Tropius' 3rd gen Serebii page, not his 5th gen.
  10. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

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    Yes absolutely, too much recoil, Charizard had the same problem, taking back my previous statement and I have decided that choice specs is better, from some convincing by sandsherwz.
  11. Shame That

    Shame That night after night
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    So should I slash roost / synthesis onto solar power, or deslash life orb and mention it in AC?
  12. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

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    Hmm, I would deslash life orb, throw it in AC. Tropius has respectable but not royal bulk, and really doesn't have the time or defenses for it. Also I believe with solar power you lose health each turn regardless of your offensive action. So even if you use a recovery move, you would STILL lose health that turn.

    On the physically defensive set, I would slash synthesis next to roost, as I believe synthesis will recover more health than roost whilst under sunlight.
  13. Lesser Smaug

    Lesser Smaug

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    Roost heals a consistent 50% HP in one turn, is not dependent on weather, and has more PP. I don't think Synthesis, a weather-dependent recovery move with half the PP, should be slashed alongside Roost.
  14. Shame That

    Shame That night after night
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    Updated with the changes. Thanks guys.
  15. scienceguy

    scienceguy

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    Here is the answer your question why use growth instead of SD if you choose leaf blade: by using growth you maximize the set's unpredictability. If the opponent sees a SD, they know Tropius is physical. If you choose growth then the opponent doesn't know if Tropius is physical or special. The only way in which SD is superior to growth is that it isn't weather dependent, but i'm pretty sure that most people using Tropius are using it under sun
  16. PrimeMinister

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    Ah yes, but here is where you are wrong.

    Synthesis restores 25% of HP in the rain/sandstorm.
    Synthesis restores 50% of HP under normal conditions. (no weather)
    Synthesis restores 100% of HP in the sunlight.

    Here's why synthesis is better:
    Under normal conditions, synthesis heals just as much HP as roost. (50%) Under the sun,
    synthesis will completely heal the user, which is obviously far better than roost. If tropius is being used at all, it will most likely be under the sun, so synthesis will fully heal tropius.

    You might argue that in rain/sandstorm tropius regains significantly less health than roost. My counterargument to this is simple.

    Sandstorm is completely missing from RU. It's not used, nor will it be lest hippopotas drops into RU.

    Rain is unpopular as well. The banning of drizzle+swift swim didn't help.

    Neither weather effects that degrade synthesis are popular, and the effect that promotes it is popular.
  17. col49

    col49 mi amor
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    Hail ruins Synthesis as well, and Snover can usually switch into Tropius with a fair deal of impunity. Moreover, Roost has more PP. Keep Roost if anything, leave Synthesis in Ac
  18. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

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    Yes but let me remind you that snover will most likely be killed before it can switch out, so if you can use sunny day after snover is killed there will be no chance to restart the hail.
  19. Shame That

    Shame That night after night
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    Synthesis heals 2/3 of HP under sun, and Roost is just plain more reliable. However, if a QC member tells me to slash it I will.

    Scienceguy: Isn't the only way SD is superior to growth that it gives a two boosts to one stat? Like, Tropius doesn't exactly have the speed to fully utilize its unpredictability; whatever comes in will probably be able to survive at least one +1 hit from either side of attacking stats, and since it came in it probably had a good way to either 2HKO or cripple tropius.

    Does it matter that the opponent knows its physical when it will hit like a truck anyway?
  20. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

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    Er.. Fine

    THAT IS THE LAST TIME I USE INFO FROM WIKIPEDIA
  21. scienceguy

    scienceguy

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    Sorry, I was talking about Tropius with sun support for the growth set, i should have clarified myself. Under sun Tropius would be at +2 for attack, special attack and speed after one turn of set up
  22. Lesser Smaug

    Lesser Smaug

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    Also, Giga Drain is superior to Energy Ball, since it has improved power, and heals Tropius. Moreover, Giga Drain is also legal with both Chlorophyll and Solar Power. So yeah, I would remove Energy Ball and use Giga Drain.
  23. Shame That

    Shame That night after night
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    Updated. Thanks guys.
  24. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Since you only briefly mention Harvest in the OO, it might be worth it to give it a greater mention - Harvest ChestoRest, Harvest Sitrus, Harvest Lum [Rest], etc.

    Anyways, looks really good for a first skeleton, so grats on that!

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  25. Shame That

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    Thanks Windsong! Expanded in OO :D

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