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Turn the World 'round

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by DahliaSky, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. DahliaSky

    DahliaSky

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    This is my second RMT, and this is a team I've been testing for a while now. I appreciate feedback, but if you have a suggestion please give good reasons for it so i can figure out what you mean and if i should change something.

    Team at a glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Looks a little jumbled probably right now, but hopefully it will all come together for you as i explain each individual's role on the team. Each pokemon has a brief description, but the real goods are at the bottom of the page, where I outline a basic strategy for beating each of the 49 OU pokemon with this team. Obviously for the sake of time i have not included a number of obscure sets, but if you see a particular set that would give my strategy for that pokemon trouble, please mention it and i'll see what i can do.

    Azelf @ Choice Scarf
    252 Atk, 252 Spe 6 Def
    Adamant
    U-turn
    Ice Punch
    Zen Headbutt
    Thunderpunch

    Azelf is speeded perfectly with this setup to outrun the majority of dancing pokemon and agility users after one of said moves. He also has levitate, which comes in handy when helping jirachi, metagross, and heatran. The scarf may seem excessive, but it makes a huge difference, allowing you to counter just about any opponent's pokemon you scout that would normally be too fast. The scarf does make azelf bait to pursuit, but constant u-turning can help prevent that, as well as the fact that even if you are caught by pursuit, odds are it means an easy setup for breloom.

    Azelf makes a great dance partner with jirachi, as each is neutral or resists what the other is weak to. U-turning between them can confuse common faster sweepers, and can eliminate most dark/psychic threats with minimal damage because of the speed they have. The best part about killing pokemon in this manner is that if the opponent predicts a different move or switch, or finds a pokemon that can take it and switches that in, you're u-turning and can easily change to your counter.

    Azelf also works well here as an anti booster, stopping all common dragon dance users (including mence and gyarados) and most agility users (including empoleon) after their buff. Zen headbutt does a very respectable amount of damage, and can be used to late sweep with a 20% flinch or to ko faster threatening pokemon like jolteon after scouting them on a u-turn.

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    252 Satk, 252 Spe, 6 Def
    Naive
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Hidden Power (Grass)
    Explosion

    Heatran is a good steel counter, as well as a provider of cover from opposing fire type attacks. He is scarfed because the speed is needed more for foes like Infernape than the possible versatility he would gain by running sub/shucca. Most of the opponents that can set up on Heatran's scarf can be easily dispatched with azelf, gliscor, or breloom, even after one buff.

    Heatran is normally a one shot wonder, switching in, grabbing the free hit that seems the best type, then being switched back out. This fact can disrupt the flow advantage you gain by u-turning if you guess wrong, so its best to keep heatran hidden until he is definitely needed. To get back the flow, breloom can come in on special walls and sub/spore, giving you a decent recovery method and putting the game flow back in your hands. Gliscor is a good compliment to heatran as well, as he resists heatran's earth and fighting weaknesses, and with knock off/taunt and immunity to paralysis (against foes like blissey) it can be just the ticket to putting your team back in control.

    Metagross @ Occa Berry
    252 Atk, 232 HP, 20 Spe
    Adamant
    Meteor Mash
    Bullet Punch
    Earthquake
    Stealth Rock

    Stealth rock can be a real life saver, and turn u-turn damages into lethal damage pretty fast. Metagross is very good at causing switches, and can get stealth rocks up with little problem normally, especially if he is u-turned to when an opponent chooses a non-threatening pokemon. Meteor mash and Earthquake are strong moves with decent coverage, and bullet punch comes in handy a lot with all the u-turn damage that is being taken by the opponent.

    Metagross works well with breloom, who can be switched in to sleep the majority of the opponents that wall metagross like swampert and skarmory. Metagross makes a great anti-lead turn against a large number of pokemon who are hit to low hp by azelf's u-turn, the biggest being tyranitar.

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 Sdef
    Jolly
    Iron Head
    Thunder Wave
    Trick
    U-turn

    Jirachi makes a good u-turn partner for Azelf as he can take normal damage from Dark and Ghost type attacks, and pull out a second u-turn before the opponent can go. It's uncommon that a psychic or dark type can live through two u-turns, especially since these u-turns are quite powerful. When scarfed, iron head can also be useful for stopping faster threats, or slower ones, with a substantial amount of health left or a steel weakness. He is also useful for paralyzing boosted sweepers and making them easier kos.

    Jirachi also has the ability to get rid of its scarf on a slower opponent to cripple them. It can also then utilize thunderwave to slow opponents down and either give it an easy u-turn to a counter or an iron head or two to finish it off. Jirachi teams up well with gliscor, since he draws earthquakes commonly, and can scarf an opponent into earthquake to give gliscor a free knock off on their switch.

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb (Poison Heal)
    252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
    Adamant
    Spore
    Substitute
    Seed Bomb
    Focus Punch

    Breloom can take advantage of a large number of tank pokemon, using them as easy prey for its sleep while gaining a free sub to hit from behind. My advise for running breloom to its best is to sub first, unless there is a chance your opponent has roar or whirlwind. If that chance is there, it's best to spore first to prevent being forced out. Breloom can also have other uses that do not involve sleeping, such as switching in on swampert and attempting to grab a sub or seed bomb. It gives you a chance to get a sub and start wreaking havoc even if you've already slept something, and if the swampert just breaks the sub, gives you a kill at best, or residual damage to another opponent at the worst.

    With all the u-turn scouting going on in this team, it will be very common that you'll be able to get a free switch into an opposing wall. With sub, all status walls are extremely vulnerable to breloom as he can sub before they status and begin anew as though he had slept an opponent.

    Gliscor @ Leftovers (Sand Veil)
    252 HP, 36 Def, 220 Spe
    Jolly
    Earthquake
    Knock Off
    Taunt
    Roost

    The complete stall breaking power of gliscor lies in this set. Not only can he taunt to prevent slower opponents from setting up or healing, but when the opponent switches to a counter they will often be greeted by losing thier item. This can be a huge deal for opponents such as scizor or flygon who rely on their items to fully utilize their moveset. Gliscor is the only actual stall set on this team, but is more useful for its immediate effects on the opponents caused by taunt/knock off than his walling ability and healing. His above average livability allows him to come back later to taunt the same foes, or knock off new items.

    Gliscor plays very well with this team, covering the ground and fighting weaknesses or heatran, the ground weakness on metagross, the poison weakness of breloom, and the bug weakness of azelf. He also can cover many physical attacks that are normal against him, such as dark, flying, rock, dragon, and steel.

    Basic Strategy Outlines against Opposing OU Pokemon
    Name Format:
    Pokemon Name Abilities HP Atk Def Satk Sdef Spe BST

    Aerodactyl Pressure/Rock Head 80 105 65 60 75 130 515

    Aerodactyl is almost always a suicide lead in OU, often with max HP
    instead of max attack to help it survive. Because of the max HP
    variants, the best counter to this is to actually just have Azelf
    ice punch it, then switch to metagross and bullet punch. The reason
    for the ice punch and extra turn is that u-turn and bullet punch
    are not a OHKO on max HP aerodactyl, and having to take 2 bullet
    punches to kill aerodactyl can give him an Earthquake turn if he
    used stealth rock first turn. If you really want to prevent SR,
    u-turn and bullet punch has a low chance to OHKO, and using two ice
    punches is a 2hko that stops stealth rock but also leaves you
    vulnerable to gyarados and gives other water types a free switch.

    Azelf Levitate 75 125 70 125 70 115 580

    Against lead azelf, your Azelf's u-turn will go first unless there
    is a speed tie, and trick does nothing to stop you. Switching to
    jirachi will prevent further tricks, and the u-turn jirachi does
    will allow you to bring out Azelf again. Later in the game, jirachi
    can be used to predict a psychic/ghost attack, and u-turn on it
    to azelf or metagross who can finish it off.

    Blissey Natural Cure/Serene Grace 255 10 10 75 135 55 540

    Blissey is normally used as a special wall, so can expect to
    probably take 30-50% from u-turns if the opponent mispredicts
    your pokemon's attack type. Switching to breloom is a decent
    option if you haven't slept an opponent and or predict a status
    effecting move. Metagross is a better switch if you predict an
    attack, as he can deal large damage not only to blissey, but to
    many switch ins with meteor mash.

    Breloom Effect Spore/Poison Heal 60 130 80 60 60 70 460

    Taking the sleep with jirachi then switching to gliscor sufficently
    counters pretty much any breloom form. Taunt prevents additional
    sleep and subs, and gliscor can heal off all of breloom's damage.

    Bronzong Levitate/Heatproof 67 89 116 79 116 33 500

    The best strategy against Bronzong is using breloom to sleep it
    and grab a free sub. If breloom has already slept an opponent,
    a good second choice is gliscor, since he can taunt and roost
    off any damage. Once bronzong is taunted, u-turning to heatran
    will provide the KO, and easily take any gyro ball or explosion
    damage.

    Celebi Natural Cure 100 100 100 100 100 100 600

    The physical u-turns deal massive amounts of damage to celebi,
    and they can easily be chained onto each other since all of the
    turners are faster than celebi. U-turning to gliscor and getting
    a taunt on it can make the job easier.

    Dragonite Inner Focus 91 134 95 100 100 80 600

    Even after a Dragon Dance, azelf outspeeds and OHKOs dragonite
    with ice punch. Switching in can be a real issue, but taking the
    first hit with heatran is normally a decent choice. After that,
    take the superpower that is the only attack dragonite can
    hit heatran well with by switching to azelf, then ice punch it
    for the ohko.

    Dusknoir Pressure 45 100 135 65 135 45 525

    The best way to take out dusknoir is to trick it a scarf with
    jirachi, or to sleep it with breloom and kill it slowly from
    behind a sub. Switching in can be difficult because of
    Wil-o-wisp, so its best if breloom has already come out for
    a turn and can absorb the status.

    Electivire Motor Drive 75 123 67 95 85 95 540

    Electivire is a common choice to switch in on anticipated
    electric moves. This can be a problem since azelf is locked
    into thunderpunch when he uses it and must switch. Metagross
    is a good choice to take the probable thunder or ice punch,
    and retaliate with earthquake after reducing fire punch with
    the occa berry. If occa berry has been used, the best bet is
    to use scarfed u-turns to bounce around and prevent prediction
    then finish with an attack.

    Empoleon Torrent 84 86 88 111 101 60 530

    Azelf and Jirachi are the best choices to take on empoleon,
    since they are the only ones that can take his hits or deal
    great damage to it fast. Metagross is also a good option,
    but is slow because of lack of speed training, so should be
    used with caution.

    Flygon Levitate 80 100 80 80 80 100 520

    Azelf is faster and OHKOs with ice punch, the problem being
    getting him out against him. The best way is to do a slow
    u-turn with gliscor to take the hit, then switch to azelf and
    ice punch him out. It is also possible to predict flygon's
    attack and switch in an immunity or steel type that can take
    the hit and retaliate since he is normally scarfed.

    Forretress Sturdy 75 90 140 60 60 40 465

    Forretress is easily taken out by heatran, especially since
    it will probably be using spikes or toxic spikes that the
    entire team is immune to anyway.

    Gengar Levitate 60 65 60 130 75 110 500

    Azelf or Jirachi can counter gengar, but they cannot switch
    into him well. Jirachi has little problems unless its a
    MYSTICgar, which will be indicated by a sub. If gengar gets
    a sub up, your best bet it to kill the sub with iron head
    and take the hp fire. Heatran can also KO him, but be careful
    if he's behind a sub since he can KO you with focus punch.

    Gliscor Sand Veil/Hyper Cutter 75 95 125 45 75 95
    510

    Gliscor will often come in on metagross or breloom, since
    it walls them well. The best way to beat it is to switch to
    azelf and ice punch it, especially if you can get gliscor
    to use earthquake.

    Gyarados Intimidate 95 125 79 60 100 81 540

    Azelf easily takes out gyarados with thunderpunch, but
    has trouble switching in. The best way is to predict the
    dragon dance and get the free switch, but that isn't always
    100%. If azelf has recieved any damage it can be KOd by
    waterfall, so it might be a good idea to get out metagross
    who will draw an earthquake you can switch in on.

    Heatran Flash Fire 91 90 106 130 106 77 600

    Heatran is stopped decently well by either metagross using
    his occa berry or your own heatran. It can also be predicted
    when it uses earth power and taken out with gliscor.

    Heracross Guts/Swarm 80 125 75 40 95 85 500

    Heracross is uncommon but not unheard of, but can be delt
    with by heatran who outspeeds or gliscor who can take his
    hits without too much issue and respond.

    Hippowdon Sand Stream 108 112 118 68 72 47
    525

    Hippowdon is best slept by breloom, since he has no moves
    that threaten him. If breloom has already used his sleep
    but is at decent hp, he can still be a good choice to seed
    bomb it to death then switch.

    Infernape Blaze 76 104 71 104 71 108 534

    Both heatran and metagross (if occa berry is intact) counter
    infernape well. The key is predicting his moves and getting
    the switch to heatran when a fire move is expected. Jirachi
    can be used as a counter to flinch him out if he is expected
    to use close combat, as can azelf.

    Jirachi Serene Grace 100 100 100 100 100 100 600

    Heatran and metagross are both good counters as neither
    takes much damage from him and both deal decent damage
    on his weaknesses. Gliscor can also be used to counter
    him for the same reasons, and is an especially good choice
    against a boosting or wishing jirachi because of taunt.

    Jolteon Volt Absorb 65 65 60 110 95 130 525

    Jolteon is fast, but not very threatening to this team.
    He can be countered with jirachi (or metagross if you get
    a free switch) with relitive ease, as well as Azelf or
    Gliscor if he's not at full HP.

    Kingdra Swift Swim/Sniper 75 95 95 95 95 85 540

    Scarf users are the best bet here, using zen headbutt
    hits it about half its hp and has a decent chance to
    cause a flinch that will allow for the finish. It is
    also possible to u-turn around till its under 70% hp
    then use dragon pulse from heatran, but its very risky
    as you have to be sure you aren't switching into a
    waterfall.

    Lucario Inner Focus/Steadfast 70 110 70 115 70 90 525

    Metagross can take a non boosted lucario's close combat
    and retaliate with a ohko. Azelf can deal decent damage
    to lucario, making the kill after SR and a u-turn damage.
    Gliscor can also counter lucario, but has to be careful
    of the ones that carry ice punch over crunch. Gliscor also
    outruns lucario, so he is a good choice to get the extra
    u-turn damage and potentially give azelf an easy switch in
    on an ice move.

    Machamp Guts/No Guard 90 130 80 65 85 55 505

    Machamp is OHKOd after stealth rock damage by azelf's
    zen headbutt. He also only poses Gliscor any threat if
    he carries ice punch. The best bet is to switch in gliscor,
    u-turn to azelf, and then KO him. Metagross also can take
    the hits, but has a harder time because of confusion.

    Magnezone Sturdy/Magnet Pull 70 70 115 130 90 60 535

    Gliscor can wall and take out magnezone with ease. If
    metagross or jirachi are trapped by it, the only hope
    is an earthquake from gross or a u-turn from jirachi
    to escape.

    Mamoswine Oblivious/Snow Cloak 110 130 80 70 60 80 530

    Mamoswine will probably be comming in on gliscor or
    jirachi with ice shard and earthquake respectively. The
    best way to beat it is either iron head from jirachi
    or fast u-turns that allow you to switch into resists for
    the expected attacks.

    Metagross Clear Body 80 135 130 95 90 70 600

    Your metagross can take out other lead metagross, as it
    not only outspeeds them, but also has earthquake where many
    lead metagross have explosion. Non lead metagross are
    commonly run without ice punch, so gliscor can easily stop
    them. If they have ice punch a better choice might be heatran,
    but only on non leads as the leads almost always have an occa
    berry.

    Ninjask Speed Boost 61 90 45 50 50 160 456

    Ninjask leads are taken out easily by a single ice punch.
    the majority of ninjask do not fear azelf, and will try to
    sub in case you use stealth rock so they can get a swords
    dance. If they protect, you'll want to switch to gliscor
    and taunt to stop further chaining if they manage to pass.

    Roserade Natural Cure/Poison Point 60 70 55 125 105 90 505

    Against roserade leads, sleep or spikes of some kind are
    to be expected. T-Spikes do not effect this team, and spikes
    only do to a minimal level, so if they set them up its not
    really a big deal. Zen headbutt deals damage to roserade that
    will ohko, but focus sash saves. If azelf is slept, metagross is
    a good choice to finish off the damage easily without being
    threatened by having to take an attack. Against other roserades,
    switching to heatran walls and kills them. They may get up some
    spikes or t-spikes, but again that is of little consequence.

    Rotom-C,F,H,S,W Levitate 50 65 107 105 107 86 520

    Rotom is annoying to deal with in any setting, especially since
    this team doesn't have a direct counter. The best bet is to trick
    it a choice scarf if you can tell it doesn't have one since jirachi
    can take the hit, then switch to gliscor or heatran depending on
    the attack rotom is stuck on.

    Salamence Intimidate 95 135 80 110 80 100 600

    Azelf outspeeds salamence even after a dance, and ohkos with ice
    punch. The best way to get it out is gliscor's slow u-turn, or a
    predicting u-turn that reveals the mence. If mence locks itself
    into outrage, it can be a good switch for heatran or metagross.

    Scizor Swarm/Technician 70 130 100 55 80 65 500

    Gliscor walls scizor without issue, but the problem is if the
    opponent realizes that azelf is scarfed, he can be easily
    pursuited and taken out. This is why its always best to use
    u-turn if possible on azelf. (same goes for jirachi if he hasn't
    tricked his scarf, more because of magnezone tho)

    Skarmory Sturdy/Keen Eye 65 80 140 40 70 70 465

    Skarmory doesn't stand a chance against heatran or breloom (if
    it doesn't attack the turn it comes in). Gliscor is a good asset
    against skarmory since it can taunt and prevent healing, then
    hearan can switch to him with no threat of spikes or whirlwind.

    Smeargle Own Tempo/Technician 55 20 35 20 45 75 250

    Smeargle is an uncommon sight outside of baton passing teams
    where he is used normally to sleep/sub/pass or sleep/trap/pass.
    When he isn't passing, he will normally run sleep/spikes. Azelf's
    u-turn hits it first, and hits over 50%. Gliscor is the best
    second choice in case it uses spikes or sub first, as you can
    outspeed and taunt it, and gliscor can survive to wake up.

    Snorlax Immunity/Thick Fat 160 110 65 65 110 30 540

    Snorlax doesn't even have a good switch in against this team unless
    the opponent realizes that azelf is locked into ice punch. Even so,
    a quick switch to breloom solves the problem easily. If breloom has
    already slept an opponent, trick from jirachi or paralysis and iron
    head are both solid ways to beat him.

    Starmie Natural Cure/Illuminate 60 75 85 100 85 115 520

    Fast u-turns kill starmie quickly, the key is in guessing which move
    it is going to use. If you predict ice beam (a solid bet against
    gliscor) jirachi can get the free switch/u-turn. If you predict hydro
    pump or surf, switching to breloom to take the hit draws out an ice
    beam next turn. Jirachi can also take a hydro pump and survive, so is
    a decent choice even if all the ways to draw out ice moves are gone.

    Suicune Pressure 100 75 115 90 115 85 580

    Trick ruins most suicune, as they rely on healing, and many run calm
    mind buffs. Paralysis always helps as well, so this is a good choice
    for jirachi. Once it's paralyzed, you can switch to breloom and sub to
    test if it has ice beam. If not, you can keep up your sub for a bit and
    kill him with seed bombs. If he rests, wait till he wakes up and then
    do your own sleep. It keeps him with a 1/3 chance to miss attack, and
    as long as he can't rest he can't heal.

    Swampert Torrent 100 110 90 85 90 60 535

    Breloom easily dispatches swampert, though you do need to be careful
    of ice beam, since it hits about 80% on you. Jirachi can also trick
    it and make it very predictable.

    Tentacruel Clear Body/Liquid Ooze 80 70 65 80 120 100 515

    Breloom can keep tentacruel asleep easily, and is an easy switch in
    in most cases because it will normally be using t-spikes (which this
    whole team is immune to). Gliscor can also kill it with earthquake if
    you are confident it will keep spiking or spin, and metagross can take
    the couple hits needed to KO it with earthquake.

    Togekiss Serene Grace/Hustle 85 50 95 120 115 80 545

    Gliscor prevents the thunderwave many togekiss carry, and can taunt it
    to prevent it from using roost. Once it can't roost or t-wave, Metagross
    or Azelf can take it out with relative ease.

    Tyranitar Sand Stream 100 134 110 95 100 61 600

    Metagross can easily take on a tyranitar that is scarfed into a move that
    isn't earthquake. Unfortunately the main problem is that Azelf, because
    of the scarf, can end up locked into a move that can't damage him and
    get pursuit trapped. This is why it's best to u-turn whenever possible
    with azelf. It also has the bonus of allowing you to switch to jirachi
    and get the KO with a second u-turn.

    Umbreon Synchronize 95 65 110 60 130 65 525

    Wait, this pokemon is in OU? Oo anyway... the majority of this team can
    deal with it with either u-turns or sleep. Or walling it and taunting it.
    or walling it, taunting it and u-turning. Gliscor is definitely the best
    bet here.

    Vaporeon Water Absorb 130 65 60 110 95 65 525

    Vaporeon can easily be slept by breloom. If breloom has already slept
    a pokemon, then have jirachi trick it, or paralyze it then have breloom
    kill it anyway from behind a para-gained sub. (full hp breloom loses
    only 13% of its hp for using sub, which gives 6 chances to get a sub up
    against a 25% paralysis, which gives an 82.2021484375% chance that you'll
    succeed in getting up a sub... more likely than stone edge is to hit xD)

    Weavile Pressure 70 120 65 45 85 125 510

    Weavile threatens only gliscor and azelf on this team, and if he does
    show up, metagross can easily KO him with a priority bullet punch.
    U-turn also does a large amount of damage, so if you happen to scout
    one, props!

    Zapdos Pressure 90 90 85 125 90 100 580

    Zapdos is a really solid wall... but not without roost! taunting it with
    gliscor and switching to a resist is a solid way to beat defensive zapdos
    builds. Offensive builds will be more obvious because they won't switch
    in often to take a hit. If you see one, jirachi tricking it a scarf or
    paralyzing it to slow it down are your best options.



    Conclusion
    Thank you for taking the time to read through all of this, I really spent a long time thinking about it, and would appreciate feedback, especially if I'm missing something important xD
  2. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,806
    Howdy.

    You've got a pretty cool team here, and I like the use of Breloom. He's one of the coolest Pokemon in the tier. Anyway, I have a few suggestions that I think will help your team substantially.

    First, your Azelf is not doing your team any favors, especially with redundant coverage and usage with your Jirachi. Also, you want Metagross to get up Stealth Rock ASAP, and it fares excellently against many common leads in its own right. Because of this, use Metagross in the lead position. Also, run Lum Berry over Occa Berry on Metagross. This helps with Machamp, Roserade, and Smeargle leads. It also pairs well with my next suggestion.

    Replace Azelf, who is no longer your lead, with a Life Orb Starmie. This does a lot for your team:

    • Excellent lead synergy with Metagross, being able to switch into Lead Heatran, among others.
    • Great late and early game sweeper, offering useful coverage for your team
    • Added Water-, Ice-, and Fire-type resistances for your team, which you desperately needed
    • Gives you a desperately needed check to Infernape
    Run the following set:

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Recover

    Also, I have some nitpicks about the rest of your team to make sure that they function at maximum effectiveness together and alone.

    • Run an Adamant nature on Breloom
      • This lets your Focus Punch and Seed Bomb really smash through things. You'll also get ample opportunities to Sub and Spore to force switches, so the loss of Speed isn't a big deal.
    • Run Ice Punch over Thunder Wave on Jirachi
      • This lets you easily revenge Salamence on the Speed tie, lets you beat Gliscor as needed, among other things. Ice Punch is better than ThunderPunch because Breloom checks non-Bounce Gyarados fairly well.
    • Run Fire Punch over Trick on Jirachi
      • Lets you have a reliable way to break down the Steel-types that will try to switch into Iron Heads. You also deal with walls effectively with the rest of your team, so Trick isn't really helping too terribly much. (It also helps a lot with Lucario if Gliscor is down)
    • Run Toxic over Knock Off on Gliscor
      • This will let you really break stall effectively. You really aren't stalling yourself, so the use of Knock Off isn't very logical.
    Those are all of my suggestions. I think they'll help your team play better and I hope they've helped you know where your weaknesses and such were. Good luck with the team!
  3. DahliaSky

    DahliaSky

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Azelf and jirachi serve completely different purposes and do not have redundancy except u-turn, which is only for scouting out and residual damage. Metagross is a good lead, i have used him before as a lead on a different team, but the idea here is that I can u-turn to counter anything with little problem on azelf. It is also common that tyranitar switch in to kill azelf when i u-turn, with hits them ~40%, leaving an easy iron head kill with jirachi. Azelf and jirachi synergize together very well on this team, being able to bounce back and forth to take normal or resisted damage on each other's weaknesses. Azelf is also perfect for when you scout any dragon as it outspeeds them all even after a DD while jirachi does not. Azelf's thunderpunch easily takes out opposing DD gyarados. Azelf is basically my boost preventer, and replacing him with a life orb starmie will completely defeat the purpose of this slot in the team. Zen headbutt also OHKOs most machamps even without SR, as well as deals hefty damage that can be used to KO pokes like jolteon that are too fast, but have taken a u-turn on the scout or SR.

    also:
    Infernape Blaze 76 104 71 104 71 108 534

    Both heatran and metagross (if occa berry is intact) counter
    infernape well. The key is predicting his moves and getting
    the switch to heatran when a fire move is expected. Jirachi
    can be used as a counter to flinch him out if he is expected
    to use close combat, as can azelf.

    By this, i mean that if i catch infernape on a u-turn its a very easy kill, and if he switches in to kill breloom, my one pokemon that really has a lot of trouble with him, he'll probably die to focus punch: but if he's the second counter heatran is an ovbiously good choice. Azelf easily outspeeds and OHKOs, and can take the close combat.

    Stealth rocks are important, but not important enough to sacrifice my ability to switch directly to a counter. Stealth rock is unnecessary for all of the KOs i have listed except where i state otherwise, and mid game is a geat time to set up SR, especially with all the scouting that goes on.

    I have looked at breloom's speed issue, and you are right. I was originally running a speed nature to outspeed suicune, but that is unreliable anyway and completely dependent on the suicune set, not my nature.

    Ice punch on jirachi would be redundant, and fire punch as well. Tricking walls allows this team a lot of breathing room against foes, if breloom has already slept an opponent, like blissey, vaporeon, skarmory, and celebi. Thunder wave allows jirachi to be usefull after he tricks, slowing problem counter pokemon and allowing him to iron head or u-turn on them easily.

    I do not need to run toxic on gliscor to stall out most pokemon, since the majority of the time after a wall is taunted the opponent will switch to a counter that gliscor can't stay in on anyway. Knock off cripples a large number of pokemon, and is a more beneficial effect for the team.

    I'll edit the original post to reflect the breloom change, thank you so much for your help.
  4. DahliaSky

    DahliaSky

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
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    109
    added more notes and fixed up breloom.
  5. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Your team is very interesting, however redundant coverage is an issue on your team. In addition, it is generally very risky utilizing three choice items... I understand that u-turn helps with this situation, however, your team is tyranitar weak and cs azelf is pursuit bait. Seeing as pursuit hits before u-turn, it has the potential to kill your team other than breloom and gliscor. However, I do think this team has definite potential to be quite the tricky one to beat, however major changes are needed to remedy its weaknesses. Good luck and I hope I helped! :)

    Edit: your team is also infer nape weak
  6. DahliaSky

    DahliaSky

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    what you are saying i already covered.

    My team is not infernape weak since i have multiple pokemon that resist his attacks, outspeed, and ohko him.

    My azelf has only rarely been caught by pursuit in my testing, since the opponent commonly has to switch in ttar and scizor before he can use it, and by then aelf has already u-turned and is gone leaving just his u-turn damage. From there, gliscor easily walls both, knocking off items and stopping dancing (sd scizor, dd ttar). the best way to prevent becoming pursuit bait is to not lead on azelf for a kill for as long as possible. If ttar or scizor DO actually manage to get in and pursuit (most scizor wont because of fireblast's commonality on azelf leads) its all easy setup bait for breloom, who will more than likely cause massive problems for the opponent.

    Moral of the story: read my post better next time (as all of this was covered) and remember not to leave psychics hanging (like a normal person) unless you've scouted the opponent already. if you kill with a u-turn, end on a steel so ttar doesn't get in free, and if you have to revenge kill with azelf, be ready to sweep with breloom.

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