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Typical rain team (Would like feedback)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by bblader1, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. bblader1

    bblader1

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Hi.

    I think I'm okay at Pokemon itself, but I kinda suck at teambuilding. So yeah. I'd like suggestions for this:

    Politoed (Leftovers)
    Ability: Drizzle
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/252Def/4spdef
    -Scald
    -Toxic
    -Protect
    -Encore

    Typical defensive Politoed. I only need him to keep my weather up, so this tries to keep him alive as long as I can. I mean, sure, I can Scald to fish for burns and 2HKO stuff that's weak to it if I have my weather up, and Toxic, Encore, and Protect to stall, though that stuff should only be resorted if I absolutely have to, because, well... I don't want him dying. Losing weather wars suck. That's ultimately his primary role at the end of the day, getting the weather up to assist the rest of my team, and this set lets him live the longest.

    Azumarill (Choice Band)
    Ability: Huge Power (Because anything else is viable)
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 HP/252Atk/4speed
    -Aqua Jet
    -Waterfall
    -Return
    -Ice Punch

    The reason I wanted to make a rain team in the first place: This guy hurts a lot. It's ridiculous, even when the rain ISN'T up. This thing can do clean 2HKOs on Skarmory for gods sake. How can you not love it? Forget Mordor: One does not simply SWITCH into Azumarill. Unless you have something with Water Absorb. That's literally the only thing.

    Scizor (Choice Band)
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 248 HP/252Atk/8spd
    -Bullet Punch
    -U-Turn
    -Superpower
    -Pursuit

    This would be the one I'm considering replacing. I thought he'd fit nice on a rain team since rain mitigates his prime weakness, but he's not really working for me. Sure, he can U-Turn the occasional psychic, more priority is always nice (Even if it's with a really bad attacking type), and Superpowering Blisseys in the face is always fun, but in the end he just doesn't do that much, due to so many things resisting Bullet Punch. I'm considering Jellicent if I do replace him as a spinblocker would be nice, but I already have two water types.... I'm not sure.

    Forretress (Leftovers)
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP/176def/80spd
    -Spikes
    -Stealth Rock
    -Gyro Ball
    -Rapid Spin

    Its always nice to have a hazard setter and a spinner in one, so I figured Forretress was the way to go, and he hasn't disappointed me. He can set mine up and spin theirs away, it's as simple as that. Considering switching Gyro Ball for Volt Switch for the extra utility, although Gyro has actually saved my behind a few times... honestly that's the only thing I'd even consider changing about him. He's helpful.

    Jolteon (Life Orb)
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 Spatk/252 speed/6HP
    -Volt Switch
    -Thunder
    -HP Grass
    -Shadow Ball

    STAB Thunder off a 318 spatk stat in the rain. It's simple, right? I'm not walled by grass types either thanks to that coverage. If I had a nickel for every time someone switched in on me with a ground type only to get whacked with a Shadow Ball or HP Grass and and get taken out on the next turn... well, I would have a lot of nickels. People underestimate Jolteon's coverage. They do.

    Toxicroak (Black Sludge)
    Ability: Dry Skin
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 244 HP/252 atk/12def
    -Drain Punch
    -Bulk Up
    -Substitue
    -Sucker Punch

    This guy is a total noobstomper. You wouldn't believe how many times I can get away with setting up a sub and all kinds of bulk ups and just rolling it from there. SD and Bulk up is really a toss up: There's plenty of times where the +2 would be more useful than the defense, and there's times where the defense would be more useful. I opt for Bulk up to make this guy even MORE bulky. You'd be amazed how many people forget about Sucker Punch, too: I've had so many psychic-switch ins on me it's funny. Burning or a bad prediction is really the only thing that can stop Toxicroak in the right hands: I mean, if you have enough boosts, even the Bulk up set can easily survive EQs, though they're obviously still a problem.

    ...I'm trying my best to elaborate on the usage of each pokemon here but honestly it's all really basic stuff so I'm not sure what to say. I didn't even bother listing the ability because all of the above only care about one ability.

    So yeah. I'd appreciate suggestions to improve this team so I can't use poor teambuilding skills as an excuse for losing anymore. :P
  2. Redless

    Redless

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Messages:
    131
    Nice team, but a few suggestions. This team is rather Jellicent weak. As you stated, the best Azumarill switchin is a water absorber, with Jellicent chief among them. Jellicent is also able to burn Scizor, scald Forretress, and straight up wall Toxicroak to pp stall. Jolteon is your best bet against this currently, unless you can toxic it. In order to defeat Jellicent, you will want a grass type. I think that Celebi will be your best bet.

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Natural cure
    Calm nature
    252hp/232spd/24spe
    Giga drain
    Stealth rock
    Recover
    U-turn

    This celebi set can also set up SR, taking pressure off of Forretress. You could choose to keep SR on forry to have a second SRer, or put volt switch like you had considered, or even run toxic spikes to increase pressure on defensive threats.

    As for what to replace with Celebi, I suggest Scizor, as you state that you aren't satisfied with it, and also because Celebi can U-turn as well, and this can be a similar pivot.

    I hope that this post is coherent, as it is rather late, and I am not super focused.
  3. bblader1

    bblader1

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    More than coherent enough, don't worry. Yeah, Celebi sounds a lot better. I'm going to try replacing SR with Psychic though, as I don't really think I need two Rockers... but I guess that can have it's uses. Heal Bell also sounds nice, but we'll see. I'm going to do some test games right now.
  4. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Hi there,

    Looking at your team, as Redless already said, it seems weak to Jellicent. It can block easily Azumarill, Scizor, Forretress and Toxicroak and this is pretty bad. To solve the weakness to Jellicent, I suggest you to move 32 EVs from Def to Spe. 32 EVs would be enough to outspeed Jellicent and Toxic it before Jellicent Taunts you. Then, on Jolteon I'd use Hidden Power Ice replacing Hidden Power Grass. Hidden Power Ice is useful to hit dragon-types like Dragonite and Salamence and to hit ground-types like Gliscor. Hidden Power Grass otherwise doesn't seem a very useful move in this team because Gastrodon, Quagsire and Swampert aren't a problem for this team since Politoed can Toxic them so you don't need to hit them. Next, on Toxicroak I'd move 12 EVs from Def to Spe. 12 EVs in Spe allow to outspeed Calm Rotom-W which is common nowadays and to use Substitute before it Will-O-Wisps Toxicroak. Rotom-W can give you some problem so this change helps you a lot in my opinion. Finally, seeing that Ferrothorn blocks Jolteon, Politoed and Azumarill, I'd use Superpower replacing Return on Azumarill to deal Ferrothorn more easily but this is optional, if you prefer Return, you can keep it.

    Good luck with your team!
  5. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,539
    Hey nice rain !

    I see that a Celebi has been suggested but I see that many people just use the Specially defensive set and that's really sad, because it's seriously not the one that you should try to put everywhere. Celebi is really versatile and while the idea of putting him is good, I believe you could try to go for another set.

    Nonetheless, the weaknesses :

    - Okay, for a Rain you're like REALLY weak to Fire move. Toxicroak, Scizor Forretress, they get blasted by a fire move easily, especially if you lose the weather war. All things considered, a Venusaur will be a pain for your team, HP Fire/Giga Drain have insane converage here.
    We'll need to fix this issue.

    - CM Latias. If it has something like 3Atk and LO, it will burst through your team with HP Fire and his stabs. You'd have to rely on a weak Sucker Punch and your priorities. Since it depends on "Will I outplay the guy against me and Sucker Punch the good turn", I don't think it's a good answer.

    - A Thundurus-T pretty much any version but especially the Nast Plot. Forretress is easy set-up fodder, and he will KO everybody. You have no scarf, thus no way to revenge kill him. And Jolteon hit him... really not hard enough.

    - Jirachi, Jirachi and Jirachi. The Sub/CM version will be a massiv pain and it's almost an instant win against your team. Basically, this is a pokemon every Rain team should be aware of. You need to be prepared against this guy.


    Okay I see enough weaknesses to work on, let's go for the changes :

    I'll explain my line of logic. Celebi is cool, I'll keep this idea. However, the set listed does not fix many weaknesses. It almost fixes none so I'll advise you with another set.
    Moreover you don't fix that Sun weakness.

    - First, I want you to play the Nasty Plot set on Celebi. You can force Jirachi out so it does not stack CM, and you are not afraid of his attacks. You're still able to deal some crucial damages to Thundurus-T to put him in the KO range of Azumarill.

    - Now it's about Sun teams. Sadly, I believe that Jolteon lost alot of interest with the ban of Tornadus-T. And against a Sun team, it's pretty much deadweight. Instead, you need something to handle them. So I'm gonna take no risk and advise you with a Latias.
    Latias can take hits from Venusaur, and work pretty nicely by punching holes for your team.


    Minor changes / options :

    - So, you lack a scarfer. Since you play Encore on Politoed, why not just switch him to a Scarf set. He performs incredibly well and with few prediction skills, you can prevent many set-up. Don't be afraid of the loss of bulk, you don't really need it and here you leave less room for your opponent to use his strategy.

    - I don't really like bulk up Toxicroak, it's usually pretty hard to pull of. I mean, you can succeed, but it's so the most reliable version. Instead a SD version is able to pull of a sweep really fast, on a Keldeo or something like that.

    - Your Forretress is totally out of place, but I don't feel like changing half your team. At least, change Spikes for Volt-Switch, this pokemon is just opening too many windows for your opponent. With Volt-Switch, you're better since you can get the tempo from a defensive pokemon. You won't put spikes peacefully anyway so for the role you're giving to your Forretress at the moment, Deoxys-D is just better.
    If you want to change him, you could try an offensive pokemon with SR like Terrakion or something like that to help you against Volcarona.



    THE SETS :

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    104 HP / 200 SpA / 204 SpE
    Modest Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Nasty Plot

    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Life Orb
    Levitate
    72 HP / 182 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psychock
    - Roost
    - Healing Wish

    You'll more likely to be Pursuited, Healing Wish solves this issue and then you can usually set-up nicely your ToxiCroak on a Pursuit locked Ttar.

    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak @ Life Orb
    Dry Skin
    252 Atk / 216 Spe / 40 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Sword Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Ice Punch

    You win coverage, you outspeed Mamoswine Jolly, and you even get some bulk.

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Drizzle
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Encore
    - Focus Blast / Perish Song

    The last slot is really a filler, you can also put HP Grass but it does not deal enough damages usually.


    I hope I helped, and good luck.



    TL;DR

    Show Hide
    Celebi over Scizor
    Latias over Jolteon
    Politoed => Scarf set
    Toxicroak => SD set
    Forretres => Volt Switch over Spikes
  6. bblader1

    bblader1

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Well, those are some drastic changes, but it definitely looks like it's worth trying. Interested in trying the Celebi variant already: The U-Turn really wasn't working out, likely due to the negative attack nature. Nasty Plot sounds fun though.

    I have things I need to do today, but I'll try some games with these adjustments later today.

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