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Uber Shedinja Team (Peaked #1 on the ladder)

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by adub_banded, Sep 7, 2009.

  1. adub_banded

    adub_banded

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    114
    Intro;

    I’ve been battling Pokémon competitively for just over a year now. When I started, I quickly fell in love with the Uber metagame. Not only was it fun, but I was much better at it than I was at OU and UU. I’ve been able to get on the Uber leaderboard with various teams basically whenever I wanted, but never had the drive, skill, or strong enough team to actually get up to higher ranks. I originally came up with the idea for this team after talking with Anachronism. He had given me his hyper offensive team and as he was telling me some tricks to use it, he mentioned it was slightly Shedinja weak. The more I thought about, the more I figured Shedinja could be force in Ubers, given some team support. A lot of common sets are totally screwed by it, switch-ins like Darkrai and Groudon can be worn down, and keeping entry hazards of the field doesn’t seem too difficult. So I proceeded to building the team and testing it out. I quickly realized that I had something that could be great. This team peaked at #1 on the ladder about a week ago. I think it’s time to get it rated and possibly retired. This is my first RMT.

    Team at a glance;
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    In Depth;

    [​IMG]

    Shaymin-s @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 60 HP/196 Spd/252 SAtk
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Air Slash - For STAB, flinch hax, all around awesomeness.
    - Earth Power – Hurts lead Dialga, always 2HKOing if I get the Sp. Def drop, sometimes without it.
    - Seed Flare – More STAB and the Sp. Def drop rate can let me beat some Blisseys.
    - Leaf Storm – Well, Kyogre is such a beast that Seed Flare will never OHKO if it has 252 HP EVs, which the lead versions do. I chose Leaf Storm to have a small chance at OHKOing and for slightly better accuracy in clutch situations.

    General Description;

    The best anti-lead in the Uber metagame in my opinion. This thing scares the crap out of all common leads, 1-2HKOing almost every single one. Against lead Deoxys-A/S I have a 54.15%((.6 * .95) * .95) chance of preventing any entry hazards thanks to the Serene Grace and Air Slash flinching combo. Even if they get their hazards up, I can normally just spin them away later and they cannot reset them. It’s really funny when people switch their Wobbufett into this in an effort to revenge kill me, only to get flinched to death. I generally play very recklessly with Shaymin, letting it do as much damage as possible until it faints. I really only switch out if I face something that could easily set up on me. Flinch hax is really annoying, giving Shaymin the potential to create huge holes in opposing teams. If I do choose to save it for later, it can easily come in lategame and finish off a weakened team. I am extremely happy with how well Shaymin-s does its job.

    EV spread;

    The Speed EVs allow me to hit 507, which outruns Scarf Darkrai that choose to go 1 point ahead of Deoxys-S. The Modest nature lets me 2HKO Darkrai 76.53% of the time and Deoxys-S every time. I would like some opinions on whether max speed Timid would be better, though.

    [​IMG]

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock – Stealth Rock is a great move to have on this team, especially when Shedinja can force a lot of switches. However, I am considering Spikes as they hit a lot off Shedinja’s switch-ins harder (Groudon, Garchomp) or just as much (Darkrai) as Stealth Rock.
    - Rapid Spin – This move is key, ridding hazard off my side of the field for Shedinja.
    - Explosion – Once he has done his job, Forretress can go out with a boom when people try to set up on him.
    - Payback – To try to get past Giratina-o and damage switch-ins.

    General Description;

    Forretress is absolutely essential to this team. Not only does he spin, but his Steel typing is crucial on an Uber team, with Draco Meteors and Spacial Rends flying everywhere. He can switch into Lati@s in a pinch and spin to allow Shedinja safe entry, or totally wall them if they carry Grass Knot over Thunder. The biggest problem Forretress has is Giratina, who blocks his spins and gives him a nasty burn so he can’t keep coming in. Thankfully, Giratina-o is now more common than regular Giratina and Forretress can wear it down without fearing a burn.

    EV spread;

    I just maxed out HP and Sp. Def. Forretress already has awesome defense and Ubers is more centralized around Special attacks, so I figured this would be best. I’m totally open to any suggestions.

    [​IMG]

    Shedinja @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Wonder Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance – Let’s me set up and sweep lategame against things like Restalk Kyogre or Sword Dance Roost Scizor that could try to stall me out.
    - X-Scissor – STAB and an amazing attacking type in Ubers. Also smacks around Darkrai switch-ins.
    - Shadow Sneak – More STAB, priority is good to finish off weakened Pokémon that would otherwise outrun and KO. OHKO’s Deoxys-A.
    - Will-o-wisp – Great for burning Garchomp, Groudon, and Scizor switch-ins; it weakens attacks aimed at other team members and wears them down until they faint, hopefully opening up gaps for Shedinja to exploit.

    General Description;

    The star of the show (cliché, I know). If I’ve been successful, this thing comes out lategame and my opponent gives up. I chose Focus Sash over Lum Berry because I would hate to lose to one Pursuit. It also helps when I mispredict an offensive Pokémon’s moveset; Mix Palkia with Fire Blast or Sword Dance Rayquaza with Overheat for example. Wonder Guard is a ridiculous ability, even on a Pokémon with 1 hit point. It effectively allows me to wall Kyogre, Latias, Latios, most Mewtwo, Some Deoxys-A/D/S, Wobbuffet, Bulk Up Dialga, Substitute Palkia, most Lugia, Offensive Manaphy, some Sword Dance Rayquaza, and Blissey without Toxic, not to mention the fact that it gets tons of free switches in on Choice attackers.

    EV spread;

    It really couldn’t be much easier. I maxed out the only stats that actually matter when you have 1 hit point. You’ll notice a missing 4 EVs, because there is literally nowhere to put them that actually affect anything.

    [​IMG]

    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend – Obligatory STAB, used to revenge other Dragons. Once Steels are gone, this attack is good for sweeping things up.
    - Surf – More STAB. With the rain boost, this attack can wreck things. Also good for drawing out Lati@s for Shedinja to set up on. 2HKO’s Wobbuffet in the rain when they try to switch in.
    - Thunder – Smacks around Kyogre and Manaphy. 30% Paralysis rate is great. Lati@s switch in only to receive an unpleasant surprise every once in a while.
    - Fire Blast – This hits Scizor, Metagross, and Forretress. Pretty much only used if the sun is shining.

    General Description;

    My favorite Uber revenge killer. A very standard set, but rightly so as it does its job amazingly. With my ability to get rid of entry hazards, Sword Dance Rayquaza and Lucario can never OHKO Palkia with their Extreme Speeds, barring critical hits. This also outruns all Rayquaza even after a Dragon Dance. Palkia is my first switch into Darkrai after Kyogre absorbs the sleep. Palkia works very well Shedinja, taking out the Giratina-o and Mixed Rayquaza that he cannot do enough damage to. With its amazing typing, shared only by Kingdra, Palkia snags easy free switches on fire attacks with its 4x resistance. His typing also gives him a single weakness, Dragon, which is covered by Forretress and Shedinja.

    EV spread;

    A Timid nature is necessary if I want Palkia to be able to revenge kill Dragon Dance Rayquaza and max speed allows it to at worse be in a speed tie with other Choice Scarf Palkia. Max Sp. Atk lets it hit as hard as possible. The remaining 4 EVs were thrown into defense to soften Sword Dance Rayquaza Extreme Speeds slightly.

    [​IMG]

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 240 HP/244 Def/24 Spd
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind – Boosts Kyogre’s already massive Sp. Atk and Sp. Def to ridiculous levels.
    - Surf – Obligatory STAB, resisted by some, but no commonly used Pokémon in the Ubers environment is immune to it. Better accuracy and PP than Hydro Pump.
    - Rest – Without an instant, single turn form of recovery, Kyogre has to settle for Rest. The good thing is that this heals status, allowing Kyogre to be an effective status absorber and beat standard Blissey sets.
    - Sleep Talk – This move prevents Kyogre from being totally useless during its 2 sleeping turns. With this move, anything that attempts to set up or switch in on it while it sleeps risks being hit by a boosted Surf.

    General Description;

    Crocune on steroids. This set is extremely underrated. This thing can devastate teams if it gets a few Calm Minds in. Kyogre is my first switch into Darkrai to take the Dark Void and my counter to Rock Polish Groudon. This is also, sadly, my best answer to stall. Like Palkia, Kyogre has wonderful synergy with Shedinja. The most common switch into Kyogre is Palkia due to the 4x resist of water. With a few Calm Minds, even their Thunders cannot hurt me and my Surfs hurt them severely. If Palkia comes in, I normally stay in a turn to see what it does. If it does use Thunder, I can easily switch into Shedinja. Even if it turns out to be a non choice mixed set, mixed Palkia don’t normally run Fire Blast and Thunder on the same set. Kyogre also has an amazing ability, Drizzle, which not only powers up my water moves, but weakens fire moves for Forretress and Shaymin and removes harmful weather types (Sandstorm and Hail) that would kill Shedinja instantly.

    EV spread;

    This is the standard spread, directly from the analysis. The HP and Defense EVs let Kyogre survive most Earthquakes from Sword Dance Groudon and make it overall bulky on the physical side. The 24 Speed EVs make it so Kyogre outruns all Adamant Tyranitar.

    [​IMG]

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge – Hits Lugia and Ho-oh hard and Shaymin and Rayquaza on the switch. Good neutral coverage in Ubers and good coverage alongside Earthquake.
    - Swords Dance – Doubles Groudon’s attack to a whopping 698. This move allows Groudon to sweep teams of slow, bulky Pokémon.
    - Dragon Claw – Hits Giratina, Giratina-o, and Lati@s in particular, but hits all of the many Uber Dragons, except Dialga, harder than a STAB Earthquake.
    - Earthquake – STAB attack, great coverage with Stone Edge to compliment it.

    General Description;

    Groudon also does a lot for this team. Firstly, he provides a useful Rock resistance and an Electric immunity. His ability, Drought, gives me another option to clear away Sandstorm and Hail. Another good thing about having both weather changing Ubers on the same team is that it helps you cover all weather teams. If my opponent sends out Kingdra in the rain, I can send out Groudon to set up the sun and prevent it from being a huge threat to my team. If my opponent sends out a Jumpluff, Kyogre does the exact same thing. I chose Groudon over Garchomp because of the extra bulk and the surprise factor. People often overlook the fact that Groudon’s speed allows it to help check several dangerous Pokémon in Ubers that don’t always invest in max speed; Lucario, Rayquaza, Giratina-o, and Mix Dialga. Groudon is also an answer to some stall teams.

    EV spread;

    Max speed and a Jolly nature let Groudon at worse tie with Lucario, Giratina-o, and Dialga. It also lets it outrun Adamant Rayquaza. Max attack lets Groudon hit as hard as possible. The other 4 EVs were just dumped into HP.

    Teambuilding;

    I knew the team was going to focus on Shedinja, so I figured that’d be a good place to start.
    [​IMG]
    With Sheddy, I knew I’d need a way to get rid of entry hazards. The only spinner I’ve used in Ubers is Forretress and he’s always done a good job, so he was added.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    At this point I figured an anti-lead could help me by preventing rocks from suicide leads. I decided on Skymin because it could potentially beat all hazard setting leads.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Ok, so now I needed a supporting core. I noticed the intense fire weakness I had and picked Palkia for the 4x resist. Because Skymin might go down early, I picked a Scarf Revenge killer set.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    In case I meet up with some Tyranitars, I decided on some weather support. Kyogre helps cover the fire weakness more and powers up Palkia’s Surfs. I also needed a status absorber and had seen the Restalk Calm Mind set in Twash’s RMT, so I gave it a try.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now to try to cover weaknesses. Rock moves hurt a lot. Electric hurts if Sheddy is dead/hazards are up. Sword Dance Lucario and Rayquaza could hurt me a lot, so checking them would be good. It comes down to Groudon or Garchomp. I decided I would rather have weather control against Rain teams, so I went with Groudon.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    And there you have it. A successful Uber Shedinja team.

    Conclusion;

    I hope you enjoyed reading this. Please Rate/Hate/Steal.

    Threat List Below
  2. adub_banded

    adub_banded

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    114
    Threat List

    Stall Teams; The biggest threats to this team are stall teams with Restalk Giratina and a Calm Mind Latias.

    The Ubers

    Darkrai: I try to flinch lead versions, Kyogre takes sleep otherwise, Palkia revenges it, Shedinja can nail it with an X-scissor as it tries to switch in, and Forretress can blow up.

    Deoxys: Haven’t seen any, but leads would be flinched, Shedinja handles ones without weird HP’s or Fire Punch. Palkia Revenges.

    Deoxys-A: Same as Deoxys. Shadow Sneak from Sheddy OHKO’s.

    Deoxys-D: Haven’t seen any, but Kyogre and Groudon can set up, Shedinja can if it doesn’t have Toxic, Forretress can stall it out and spin its spikes.

    Deoxys-S: Seen almost exclusively as a lead. Out sped and 2HKO’d by Skymin.

    Dialga: Bulk Up is walled by Sheddy; Groudon can also do a good job. Choiced has to be predicted around, but basically anything except Fire Blast/Flamethrower goes to Sheddy. Forretress can take Dragon moves and force it out. Mixed are harder. Get Groudon in and hope to be faster or win the speed tie. Kyogre does ok.

    Garchomp: More predicting around. Everything to Shedinja except Stone Edge, which goes to Groudon. Palkia revenges non Choice Scarf ones.

    Giratina: Only the Restalk Calm Mind versions. I can’t spin against it to get Shedinja in and force it out. Palkia can hurt the standard Restalk, Kyogre can set up.

    Giratina-O: Doesn’t normally carry a method of recovery, so I just wear it down. Try and burn with Shedinja on the switch, Groudon outruns most of them, Kyogre can wear it down because it doesn’t have a way to recover. Palkia revenges.

    Groudon: Kyogre handles Support and Rock Polish, Palkia checks all the rest.

    Ho-oh: Kyogre sets up. Palkia revenges if it’s raining. Groudon can revenge with Stone Edge.

    Kyogre: Sheddy walls every set. Palkia can switch into Water Spouts if hazards are still up.

    Latias: Shedinja handles it. Forretress can handle it to an extent. Palkia revenges weakened ones.

    Latios: Same as Latias.

    Lugia: Kyogre sets up, Groudon hurts it, and Sheddy can wall ones without Toxic.

    Manaphy: Groudon changes the weather in my favor; Sheddy walls ones without Toxic, Palkia and Shaymin revenge.

    Mew: Lead variants get flinched and worn down; Baton Passers take a little work. If I sense a chain about to start (dual screens go up), I’ll go to Kyogre and Calm Mind 1 or 2 times. The most common recipients are Dialga and Groudon, Dialga can’t hurt me too bad after a CM and Groudon is hit hard on the switch. Potentially a problem, but I haven’t seen many.

    Mewtwo: Oh God I hate Bulky Will-o-wisp/Light Screen/Taunt/Recover Mewtwo so much. I have to pray to flinch it to death with Skymin. Other types aren’t very hard. Palkia revenges all out attackers and Sheddy walls the ones without Shadow Ball or Flamethrower.

    Palkia: Sheddy walls a lot of them, my Palkia can revenge non Scarfed ones.

    Rayquaza: Palkia does well if there are no hazards up. Sheddy can wall the ones that don’t carry fire moves or Stone Edge. Groudon can revenge Adamant ones.

    Shaymin-S: Annoying. Leads generally outrun me, so I normally go to Kyogre to try and stall them out, but flinch hax can be gay. Subseed is not fun to face either, my best shot is to revenge with Palkia.

    Wobbuffet: You can’t really counter him, but my preferable choice to switch in after a KO is Shedinja.

    The Non-Ubers

    Blissey: Kyogre handles the standard sets; Groudon and Shedinja handle ones without Toxic, Calm Minder, and Psych Up variants.

    Forretress: Slightly annoying because it sets up entry hazards, but Kyogre and Groudon set up on it and Palkia can OHKO with Fire Blast.
    Lucario: Palkia can revenge it if there aren’t any hazards up, Groudon switches in as it sets up and most likely outruns and KOs.

    Ludicolo: Groudon takes its rain away, making it more manageable. Skymin does tons of damage with Air Slashes. Forretress can blow up on it.
    Metagross: Groudon handles it. Shedinja walls ones without Pursuit. Kyogre and Palkia do lots of damage with boosted Surfs or a Fire Blast.

    Ninjask: It can’t touch Groudon, Kyogre sets up on the “anti-lead” versions. Palkia destroys it, Shaymin too.

    Scizor: Kyogre, Palkia, and Groudon all hurt him and he can’t do a whole lot in return. Shedinja burns it on the switch.

    Skarmory: Kyogre and Palkia do a good job. Hazards are annoying as ever, especially when combined with Whirlwind pulling out Shedinja involuntarily.

    Tyranitar: I’m glad this is nowhere to be seen in the Ubers environment. Kyogre and Groudon handle it, but if it switches into Sheddy there is nothing I can do about it.
  3. Anachronism

    Anachronism

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    560
    I haven't yet seen this team in action much, but it clearly would give a lot of teams (including my own) a lot of trouble. Great job on this and congrats on #1!

    I can't think of any changes to make. Excellent and focused team overall.

    Also, this team makes me want to use Mix Dialga heh.
  4. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,739
    Try Baton Pass on Shedninja. It allows it to escape from Scizor's Pursuit since it can actually outspeed it, and it also allows you to scout for Tyranitar switch ins. Your opponent could always have a Tyranitar ready late game, so by scouting early it lets you be ready for it. Consider it over Swords Dance, since Shedninja really doesn't do a good job sweeping in Ubers, even if it does have the ability to hit a lot of them for super effective damage.

    It's somewhat sad that Shedninja is the only thing stopping Lati@s from sweeping you. Nothing else can stand up to them with their enourmous special attack and special defence.

    Also try SubSalac Groudon > SD + 3 attacks. It's nearly unstoppable late game and plays similarly to SUB SD Garchomp back when he was OU.

    Edit: Shedninja does not wall BU Dialga; Dialga walls Shedninja. If Groudon goes down you pretty much lose to BU Dialga. I'm guessing if he hasn't gave you any problems than your opponent wasn't using him right.

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