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Ubers Forretress [QC 2/2] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Jukain, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    Messages:
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    [Overview]

    <p>When people think of Forretress in Ubers, they are usually only thinking of one thing: Rapid Spin. Forretress is the premier Rapid Spin user of the Uber tier and the only one worth using. It has fairly high physical bulk, allowing it to function as a switch-in for Outrages from the likes of Rayquaza, as well as for Draco Meteors, though they do significantly more damage due to Forretress's low Special Defense. Additionally, Forretress can set up every entry hazard, making it a staple on any team, particularly stall, that requires entry hazards and Rapid Spin, which Forretress wraps up, including free shipping, into one pointed package. While its offenses are low, Forretress's attacks still get the job done. Its low base Speed might seem to be a detriment, but Forretress has Payback and STAB Gyro Ball to make up for this. Overall, Forretress isn't that great, but its Rapid Spinning capabilities are invaluable in a tier lacking viable users of the move.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 4: Payback
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish / Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is a combination of all Forretress's little quirks and niches in Ubers. As previously mentioned, Forretress is the only viable Rapid Spin user in Ubers. It is also one of the few viable users of Toxic Spikes and has access to the invaluable Spikes. It supports the Stealth Rock-weak offensive Pokemon that populate Ubers, such as Ho-Oh and Rayquaza, as well as stall teams, which require the ability to switch into powerful attackers without worrying about hazard damage. Toxic Spikes is another important piece of Forretress's niche, as the hazard fits like a glove onto most teams. Its uses range from wearing down opposing Kyogre and Groudon, if you carry the opposite weather, to allowing special attackers carrying Substitute to be able to beat Blissey and other special walls one-on-one. Additionally, stall teams require Toxic Spikes to wear down opponents in the long run, particularly when facing other stall teams. Spikes are also very useful, both to weaken any checks to your sweepers that the opponent might have, and to add to a stall team's pile of residual damage it relies on. Alternatively, Stealth Rock can be used over another entry hazard if it cannot be fit in elsewhere on your team, but quite often it can be and therefore either form of Spikes is recommended unless it is absolutely required for Forretress to run Stealth Rock. In the realm of attacks, Payback is the best option, as it allows Forretress to get past Giratina-O, the premier spinblocker in Ubers, that lack Hidden Power Fire, which can be tested by simply luring the move and switching Forretress out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As far as Forretress's defensive investment is concerned, a specially defensive EV spread and Careful nature are necessary so that Forretress can switch into Draco Meteors from the likes of Dialga and Palkia. Gyro Ball is an option for Forretress's attack, allowing it to defeat mono-attacking Darkrai and to inflict heavy damage on Dragon Dance Rayquaza after it takes an Outrage. Hidden Power Ice could also be used, but its only real use is to turn Forretress into a godlike check to Rayquaza, though it is definitely worth it on teams that are weak to Rayquaza.</p>

    <p>For support, the first teammate that should be considered is a user of Pursuit, as even with Payback Forretress struggles to beat most spinblockers. Tyranitar is the best choice because it beats Giratina-O quite handedly. A spinblocker of your own is a requirement due to the fact that Forretress usually cannot redo all of its hard work setting up entry hazards. Giratina is the defensive choice and Giratina-O the offensive choice, though the latter does not quite fit that moniker with its still quite high 150 / 100 / 100 defenses. A bulky Fire resist, such as Tyranitar or Kyogre, is recommended due to Forretress's 4x weakness to Fire. Kyogre also brings with it rain, which halves the damage Forretress takes from Fire-type attacks, and as a bonus, Forretress spins away the entry hazards that weaken the power of Water Spout. Carry the necessary support for Forretress should you choose to run it; regardless of how you feel, it really needs it, and there aren't really any other spinners out there should you not be satisfied with Forretress.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Forretress has a few other moves it could use for its attack. Explosion could be useful as a last-ditch attempt to KO a troublesome Pokemon, such as a setup sweeper or Dragon-type locked into Outrage, swinging the battle in your favor. However, Forretress needs to stay alive for as long as it can, so it must be used only after Forretress's use has fully expired, which is unlikely considering keeping a spinner around when using a Pokemon like Ho-Oh is required. Earthquake can be used to wear down Dialga, but that is its only use. Lastly, a physically defensive EV spread could be helpful to take Outrages even better; however, Forretress will lose its ability to take Draco Meteors in exchange, which invokes a number of undesirable situations. Forretress's high base Defense can do its job of weathering Outrages whether or not it is invested into, while the same cannot be said of its ability to take Draco Meteors.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Forretress's main purpose is to spin away entry hazards, a spinblocker goes a long way toward shutting it down. Giratina is extremely bulky, taking pitiful damage from Payback and blocking Rapid Spin. Giratina-O is decent as well, though it can be worn down by Payback far more easily, so it must carry Hidden Power Fire to come out on top. For that matter, any Fire-type attack from Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Heatran, Fire Arceus, Dialga, Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, and Salamence will take out Forretress due to its 4x weakness. However, it should be noted that the latter two must be wary of Gyro Ball and avoid locking themselves into Outrage. Forretress's low Special Defense can be exploited through the use of any strong neutral STAB special attack. This includes Water Spout from Kyogre, Surfs from Manaphy and Palkia, Air Slash from Shaymin-S, and Judgment from many variants of Arceus. Deoxys-S, and for that matter any fast user of Taunt, can shut Forretress down and use it as setup fodder. Generally speaking, Forretress's attacks are very weak, so any setup sweeper can use it as bait to demolish an entire team. Looking at more obscure options, Swords Dance Garchomp can set up on Forretress and 2HKO it after a single boost, with even the rare Hidden Power Ice not KOing and possibly even missing under sandy conditions. The rare Magnezone can trap and KO with Hidden Power Fire. Forretress is not difficult to defeat, but its sheer utility and unique support make it something to account for whenever building a team.</p>
  2. Iconic

    Iconic
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    Joined:
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    looks good

    approof
  3. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    I'd suggest slashing Stealth Rock with both hazards (like Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock and Spikes / Stealth Rock). You did mention Forretress can set up all three hazards, yet neglect Stealth Rock as one of its options. Yes, I know it seems wasteful on Forretress's talents to set up Stealth Rock, but some teams may find the only usable Pokemon to set up SR is none other than Forretress. I'd also make a bigger mention of Explosion, since even without investment, there is no boom nerf in DPP so you can kill a lot of things that tries to set up on you, or emergency check Dragon Dancers locked into Outrage. There were many situations where I ran just *hazard* / Rapid Spin / Payback / Explosion.

    Otherwise, this looks fine, I'll approve when you make these changes.
  4. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    this is written up and ready for gp checks, this thing is an integral piece of dpp ubers and has no analysis to show for it, so jump on it!
  5. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,818
    Amateur check
    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>When one thinks of Forretress in Ubers, they are usually only thinking of one thing: Rapid Spin. Forretress is the premier Rapid Spin user of the Uber tier and the only one worth using. It has fairly high physical bulk, allowing it to function as a switch-in for Outrages from the likes of Rayquaza, as well as for Draco Meteor, though it does significantly more damage due to Forretress's low Special Defense. Additionally, Forretress can set up every entry hazard, making it a staple on any team, particularly stall, that requires entry hazards and Rapid Spin, which Forretress wraps up, including free shipping, into one pointed package. While its offenses are low, Forretress learns numerous attacks, each of which has a unique purpose. Its low base Speed might seem to be a detriment, but Forretress has STAB Gyro Ball to make up for this. Overall, Forretress isn't that great, but its Rapid Spinning capabilities are invaluable in a tier lacking viable users of the move.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 4: Payback
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish / Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As previously mentioned, Forretress is the only viable Rapid Spin user in Ubers, with this set being a combination of all of its little quirks and niches. It is the one of the few viable users of Toxic Spikes and has access to the invaluable Spikes. It supports the Stealth Rock-weak offensive Pokemon that populate Ubers, such as Ho-Oh and Rayquaza, as well as stall teams, (RC) that require the ability to switch in without worry into powerful attackers. Toxic Spikes is another important piece of Forretress's niche, as the hazard fits like a glove onto most teams. Its uses range from wearing down opposing Kyogre and Groudon if you carry the opposite weather to allowing special attackers carrying Substitute to beat Blissey and other special walls, vice versa for physical attackers. Additionally, stall teams require Toxic Spikes to wear down opponents, particularly opposing stall teams. Spikes are also very useful, both to weaken the checks of sweepers and to add to stall's pile of residual damage it relies on. Alternatively, Stealth Rock can be used over an entry hazard if it cannot be fit in elsewhere, but quite often it can be and therefore either form of Spikes is recommended unless it is absolutely required for Forretress to run Stealth Rock. In the realm of attacks, Payback is the best option, as it allows Forretress to get past Giratina-O, the premier spinblocker of Ubers, that lack Hidden Power Fire, which can be tested by simply luring the move and switching Forretress out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As far as Forretress's defensive investment is concerned, a specially defensive EV spread and Careful nature are necessary so that Forretress can switch in on Draco Meteors from the likes of Dialga and Palkia. Gyro Ball is an option for Forretress's attack, allowing it to defeat mono-attacking Darkrai and to inflict heavy damage to Dragon Dance Rayquaza after it takes an Outrage. Hidden Power Ice could be used, but its only real use is to turn Forretress into a godlike check to Rayquaza, though it is definitely worth it on teams that are weak to Rayquaza.</p>

    <p>For support, the first item that should be considered is a user of Pursuit, as even with Payback Forretress struggles to beat most spinblockers. Tyranitar is the best choice because it beats Giratina-O, which Scizor cannot in fear of Hidden Power Fire. A spinblocker of your own is a requirement due to the fact that Forretress usually cannot redo all of its hard work at setting up entry hazards. Giratina is the defensive choice and its Origin forme the offensive choice, though the latter does not quite fit that moniker with its still quite high 150 / 100 / 100 defenses. A bulky Fire resist, such as Tyranitar or Kyogre, is recommended due to Forretress's 4x weakness to Fire. Kyogre also brings with it rain, which halves the damage Forretress takes from Fire-type attacks, and as a bonus, Forretress spins away the entry hazards that weaken the power of Water Spout. Carry the necessary support for Forretress should you choose to run it; regardless of how you feel, it really needs it, and there aren't really any other Rapid Spinners out there should you not be satisfied with Forretress.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Forretress has a few other moves it could use for its attack. Explosion could be useful as a last-ditch attempt to KO a troublesome Pokemon, such as a setup sweeper or Dragon-type locked into Outrage, often putting the swing of the battle into your favor. However, Forretress needs to stay alive for as long as it can, so it must be used only after Forretress's use has fully expired. Earthquake can be used to wear down Dialga, but that is its only use. Lastly, a physically defensive EV spread could be helpful; however, Forretress will lose its ability to take Draco Meteors in exchange, which puts Forretress in a number of undesirable circumstances, while Forretress's base Defense can usually do the job on its own.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Forretress's main purpose is to spin away entry hazards, a spinblocker goes a long way toward shutting it down. Giratina is extremely bulky, taking pitiful damage from Payback and blocking Rapid Spin. Its Origin forme is decent as well, though it can be worn down by Payback far more easily than the aforementioned Giratina, so it must carry Hidden Power Fire to come out on top. For that matter, any Fire-type attack, from Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Heatran, Arceus-Fire, Dialga, Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, and Salamence, will take out Forretress due to its 4x weakness. However, it should be noted that the latter two must be wary of Gyro Ball and try and prevent locking themselves into Outrage. Forretress's low Special Defense can be exploited through use of any strong neutral STAB special attack. This includes Water Spout from Kyogre, Surfs from Manaphy and Palkia, Air Slash from Shaymin-S, and Judgement from many variants of Arceus. Deoxys-S, and for that matter, any fast user of Taunt, can shut Forretress down and use it for setup fodder. Generally speaking, its attacks are very weak, so any setup sweeper can use it as bait to demolish an entire team. Looking at more obscure options, Swords Dance Garchomp can set up on Forretress and 2HKO it after a single boost, with even the rare Hidden Power Ice not KOing and possibly even missing under sandy conditions. The rare Magnezone can trap and KO with Hidden Power Fire. Take from this what you will; Forretress is not difficult to defeat, but its sheer utility and unique support makes it something to account for whenever building a team.</p>
  6. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    ty gato, let's see here.

    you caught my typos, which are unfortunately always there because i write on a kindle fire. you fixed up some messed up terms, which is good as well. however, your removal of which and changing it to that isn't good, and the end of oo, your change sounded really awkward so i fixed it differently.

    i figured i'd give you some proper feedback, ty for the check!!!
  7. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Amateur GP check. Take whatever you think is useful from it.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>When one thinks people think of Forretress in Ubers, they are usually only thinking of one thing: Rapid Spin. Forretress is the premier Rapid Spin user of the Uber tier and the only one worth using. It has fairly high physical bulk, allowing it to function as a switch-in for Outrages from the likes of Rayquaza, as well as for Draco Meteor, though it does significantly more damage due to Forretress's low Special Defense. Additionally, Forretress can set up every entry hazard, making it a staple on any team, particularly stall, that requires entry hazards and Rapid Spin, which Forretress wraps up, including free shipping, into one pointed package. While its offenses are low, Forretress learns numerous attacks, each of which has a unique purpose. Its low base Speed might seem to be a detriment, but Forretress has STAB Gyro Ball to make up for this. Overall, Forretress isn't that great, but its Rapid Spinning capabilities are invaluable in a tier lacking viable users of the move.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 4: Payback
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish / Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is a combination of all Forretress's little quirks and niches in Ubers. As previously mentioned, Forretress is the only viable Rapid Spin user in Ubers, with this set being a combination of all of its little quirks and niches. It is also the one of the few viable users of Toxic Spikes and has access to the invaluable Spikes. It supports the Stealth Rock-weak offensive Pokemon that populate Ubers, such as Ho-Oh and Rayquaza, as well as stall teams, which require the ability to switch in without worry into powerful attackers. Toxic Spikes is another important piece of Forretress's niche, as the hazard fits like a glove onto most teams. Its uses range from wearing down opposing Kyogre and Groudon if you carry the opposite weather to allowing special attackers carrying Substitute to beat Blissey and other special walls, vice versa for physical attackers. Additionally, stall teams require Toxic Spikes to wear down opponents, particularly opposing stall teams. Spikes are also very useful, both to weaken the checks of sweepers and to add to stall's pile of residual damage it relies on. Alternatively, Stealth Rock can be used over an entry hazard if it cannot be fit in elsewhere, but quite often it can be and therefore either form of Spikes is recommended unless it is absolutely required for Forretress to run Stealth Rock. In the realm of attacks, Payback is the best option, as it allows Forretress to get past Giratina-O, the premier spinblocker of in Ubers, that lack Hidden Power Fire, which can be tested by simply luring the move and switching Forretress out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As far as Forretress's defensive investment is concerned, a specially defensive EV spread and Careful nature are necessary so that Forretress can switch in on Draco Meteors from the likes of Dialga and Palkia. Gyro Ball is an option for Forretress's attack, allowing it to defeat mono-attacking Darkrai and to inflict heavy damage to Dragon Dance Rayquaza after it takes an Outrage. Hidden Power Ice could be used, but its only real use is to turn Forretress into a godlike check to Rayquaza, though it is definitely worth it on teams that are weak to Rayquaza.</p>

    <p>For support, the first item that should be considered is a user of Pursuit, as even with Payback Forretress struggles to beat most spinblockers. Tyranitar is the best choice because it beats Giratina-O, which Scizor cannot in out of fear of (alternatively 'due to fearing') Hidden Power Fire. A spinblocker of your own is a requirement due to the fact that Forretress usually cannot redo all of its hard work at setting up entry hazards. Giratina is the defensive choice and its Origin forme the offensive choice, though the latter does not quite fit that moniker with its still quite high 150 / 100 / 100 defenses. A bulky Fire resist, such as Tyranitar or Kyogre, is recommended due to Forretress's 4x weakness to Fire. Kyogre also brings with it rain, which halves the damage Forretress takes from Fire-type attacks, and as a bonus, Forretress spins away the entry hazards that weaken the power of Water Spout. Carry the necessary support for Forretress should you choose to run it; regardless of how you feel, it really needs it, and there aren't really any other Rapid Spinners out there should you not be satisfied with Forretress.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Forretress has a few other moves it could use for its attack. Explosion could be useful as a last-ditch attempt to KO a troublesome Pokemon, such as a setup sweeper or Dragon-type locked into Outrage, often putting the swing of swinging the battle into in your favor. However, Forretress needs to stay alive for as long as it can, so it must be used only after Forretress's use has fully expired. Earthquake can be used to wear down Dialga, but that is its only use. Lastly, a physically defensive EV spread could be helpful; however, Forretress will lose its ability to take Draco Meteors in exchange, which invokes a number of undesirable situations, while Forretress's high base Defense can do the job regardless of whether or not it is invested into.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Forretress's main purpose is to spin away entry hazards, a spinblocker goes a long way toward shutting it down. Giratina is extremely bulky, taking pitiful damage from Payback and blocking Rapid Spin. Its Origin forme is decent as well, though it can be worn down by Payback far more easily than the aforementioned Giratina, so it must carry Hidden Power Fire to come out on top. For that matter, any Fire-type attack, from Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Heatran, Arceus-Fire, Dialga, Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, and Salamence, will take out Forretress due to its 4x weakness. However, it should be noted that the latter two must be wary of Gyro Ball and try and prevent locking themselves into Outrage. Forretress's low Special Defense can be exploited through use of any strong neutral STAB special attack. This includes Water Spout from Kyogre, Surfs from Manaphy and Palkia, Air Slash from Shaymin-S, and Judgement from many variants of Arceus. Deoxys-S, and for that matter, any fast user of Taunt, can shut Forretress down and use it for as setup fodder. Generally speaking, its attacks are very weak, so any setup sweeper can use it as bait to demolish an entire team. Looking at more obscure options, Swords Dance Garchomp can set up on Forretress and 2HKO it after a single boost, with even the rare Hidden Power Ice not KOing and possibly even missing under sandy conditions. The rare Magnezone can trap and KO with Hidden Power Fire. Forretress is not difficult to defeat, but its sheer utility and unique support makes make it something to account for whenever building a team.</p>
  8. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    sorry I took so long melvni, your check is implemented, excellent job as always.
  9. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Messages:
    558
    c/p (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>When people think of Forretress in Ubers, they are usually only thinking of one thing: Rapid Spin. Forretress is the premier Rapid Spin user of the Uber tier and the only one worth using. It has fairly high physical bulk, allowing it to function as a switch-in for Outrages from the likes of Rayquaza, as well as for Draco Meteor, though it does significantly more damage due to Forretress's low Special Defense. Additionally, Forretress can set up every entry hazard, making it a staple on any team, particularly stall, that requires entry hazards and Rapid Spin, which Forretress wraps up, including free shipping, into one pointed package. While its offenses are low, Forretress learns numerous attacks, each of which has a unique purpose. Its low base Speed might seem to be a detriment, but Forretress has STAB Gyro Ball to make up for this. Overall, Forretress isn't that great, but its Rapid Spinning capabilities are invaluable in a tier lacking viable users of the move.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 4: Payback
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish / Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is a combination of all Forretress's little quirks and niches in Ubers. As previously mentioned, Forretress is the only viable Rapid Spin user in Ubers. It is also one of the few viable users of Toxic Spikes and has access to the invaluable Spikes. It supports the Stealth Rock-weak offensive Pokemon that populate Ubers, such as Ho-Oh and Rayquaza, as well as stall teams, which require the ability to switch in without worry into powerful attackers. Toxic Spikes is another important piece of Forretress's niche, as the hazard fits like a glove onto most teams. Its uses range from wearing down opposing Kyogre and Groudon if you carry the opposite weather to allowing special attackers carrying Substitute to beat Blissey and other special walls, vice versa for physical attackers. Additionally, stall teams require Toxic Spikes to wear down opponents, particularly opposing stall teams. Spikes are also very useful, both to weaken the checks of sweepers and to add to stall's pile of residual damage it relies on. Alternatively, Stealth Rock can be used over an entry hazard if it cannot be fit in elsewhere, but quite often it can be and therefore either form of Spikes is recommended unless it is absolutely required for Forretress to run Stealth Rock. In the realm of attacks, Payback is the best option, as it allows Forretress to get past Giratina-O, the premier spinblocker in Ubers, that lack Hidden Power Fire, which can be tested by simply luring the move and switching Forretress out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As far as Forretress's defensive investment is concerned, a specially defensive EV spread and Careful nature are necessary so that Forretress can switch in on Draco Meteors from the likes of Dialga and Palkia. Gyro Ball is an option for Forretress's attack, allowing it to defeat mono-attacking Darkrai and to inflict heavy damage to Dragon Dance Rayquaza after it takes an Outrage. Hidden Power Ice could be used, but its only real use is to turn Forretress into a godlike check to Rayquaza, though it is definitely worth it on teams that are weak to Rayquaza.</p>

    <p>For support, the first item that should be considered is a user of Pursuit, as even with Payback Forretress struggles to beat most spinblockers. Tyranitar is the best choice because it beats Giratina-O, which Scizor cannot out of fear of Hidden Power Fire. A spinblocker of your own is a requirement due to the fact that Forretress usually cannot redo all of its hard work at setting up entry hazards. Giratina is the defensive choice and its Origin forme the offensive choice, though the latter does not quite fit that moniker with its still quite high 150 / 100 / 100 defenses. A bulky Fire resist, such as Tyranitar or Kyogre, is recommended due to Forretress's 4x weakness to Fire. Kyogre also brings with it rain, which halves the damage Forretress takes from Fire-type attacks, and as a bonus, Forretress spins away the entry hazards that weaken the power of Water Spout. Carry the necessary support for Forretress should you choose to run it; regardless of how you feel, it really needs it, and there aren't really any other Rapid Spinners out there should you not be satisfied with Forretress.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Forretress has a few other moves it could use for its attack. Explosion could be useful as a last-ditch attempt to KO a troublesome Pokemon, such as a setup sweeper or Dragon-type locked into Outrage, swinging the battle in your favor. However, Forretress needs to stay alive for as long as it can, so it must be used only after Forretress's use has fully expired. Earthquake can be used to wear down Dialga, but that is its only use. Lastly, a physically defensive EV spread could be helpful; however, Forretress will lose its ability to take Draco Meteors in exchange, which invokes a number of undesirable situations, while Forretress's high base Defense can do the job regardless of whether or not it is invested into.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Forretress's main purpose is to spin away entry hazards, a spinblocker goes a long way toward shutting it down. Giratina is extremely bulky, taking pitiful damage from Payback and blocking Rapid Spin. Its Origin forme is decent as well, though it can be worn down by Payback far more easily than the aforementioned Giratina, so it must carry Hidden Power Fire to come out on top. For that matter, any Fire-type attack, from Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Heatran, Arceus-Fire, Dialga, Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, and Salamence, will take out Forretress due to its 4x weakness. However, it should be noted that the latter two must be wary of Gyro Ball and try and prevent locking themselves into Outrage. Forretress's low Special Defense can be exploited through use of any strong neutral STAB special attack. This includes Water Spout from Kyogre, Surfs from Manaphy and Palkia, Air Slash from Shaymin-S, and Judgement from many variants of Arceus. Deoxys-S, and for that matter, any fast user of Taunt, can shut Forretress down and use it as setup fodder. Generally speaking, its attacks are very weak, so any setup sweeper can use it as bait to demolish an entire team. Looking at more obscure options, Swords Dance Garchomp can set up on Forretress and 2HKO it after a single boost, with even the rare Hidden Power Ice not KOing and possibly even missing under sandy conditions. The rare Magnezone can trap and KO with Hidden Power Fire. Forretress is not difficult to defeat, but its sheer utility and unique support make it something to account for whenever building a team.</p>


    [gp]1/2][/gp]
  10. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Looks good. You're right that Forretress really needs an analysis. Good job on getting it done.
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    [Overview]

    <p>When people think of Forretress in Ubers, they are usually only thinking of one thing: Rapid Spin. Forretress is the premier Rapid Spin user of the Uber tier and the only one worth using. It has fairly high physical bulk, allowing it to function as a switch-in for Outrages from the likes of Rayquaza, as well as for Draco Meteor Meteors, though it does they do significantly more damage due to Forretress's low Special Defense. Additionally, Forretress can set up every entry hazard, making it a staple on any team, particularly stall, that requires entry hazards and Rapid Spin, which Forretress wraps up, including free shipping, into one pointed package. While its offenses are low, Forretress learns numerous the attacks to do what it needs to do regardless, each of which has a unique purpose (you don't need to use my change if you prefer a different version you come up with, but the way it currently is doesn't quite seem to work to me; I feel like you're trying to say (and correct me if I'm wrong) either that Forretress has low offenses but still has the moves to do its job or that Forretress has low offenses but has moves that allow it to get around this at least in part, and that needs to be made a little bit more clear). Its low base Speed might seem to be a detriment, but Forretress has Payback and STAB Gyro Ball to make up for this (Gyro Ball isn't on the main set, but leaving it here is probably fine if you want to as long as you mention Payback here too, since both are moves that are better when your Speed is lower and Payback is on the main set). Overall, Forretress isn't that great, but its Rapid Spinning capabilities are invaluable in a tier lacking viable users of the move.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 4: Payback
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish / Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is a combination of all Forretress's little quirks and niches in Ubers. As previously mentioned, Forretress is the only viable Rapid Spin user in Ubers. It is also one of the few viable users of Toxic Spikes and has access to the invaluable Spikes. It supports the Stealth Rock-weak offensive Pokemon that populate Ubers, such as Ho-Oh and Rayquaza, as well as stall teams, which require the ability to switch in without worry into powerful attackers without fear / without worrying about hazard damage (depending on which you mean). Toxic Spikes is another important piece of Forretress's niche, as the hazard fits like a glove onto most teams. Its uses range from wearing down opposing Kyogre and Groudon if you carry the opposite weather to allowing special attackers carrying Substitute to beat Blissey and other special walls, vice versa for physical attackers (this seems a little awkward, and I think you still get you're point across that Toxic Spikes is useful for beating walls without it). Additionally, stall teams require Toxic Spikes to wear down opponents, particularly when facing opposing stall teams. Spikes are also very useful, both to weaken the checks of sweepers and to add to stall's pile of residual damage it relies on. Alternatively, Stealth Rock can be used over an another entry hazard if it cannot be fit in elsewhere, but quite often it can be and therefore either form of Spikes is recommended unless it is absolutely required for Forretress to run Stealth Rock. In the realm of attacks, Payback is the best option, as it allows Forretress to get past Giratina-O, the premier spinblocker in Ubers, that lack Hidden Power Fire, which can be tested by simply luring the move and switching Forretress out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As far as Forretress's defensive investment is concerned, a specially defensive EV spread and Careful nature are necessary so that Forretress can switch in on Draco Meteors from the likes of Dialga and Palkia. Gyro Ball is an option for Forretress's attack, allowing it to defeat mono-attacking Darkrai and to inflict heavy damage to on Dragon Dance Rayquaza after it takes an Outrage. Hidden Power Ice could also be used, but its only real use is to turn Forretress into a godlike check to Rayquaza, though it is definitely worth it on teams that are weak to Rayquaza.</p>

    <p>For support, the first item that should be considered is a user of Pursuit, as even with Payback Forretress struggles to beat most spinblockers. Tyranitar is the best choice because it beats Giratina-O, which Scizor cannot out of fear of always do due to Hidden Power Fire. A spinblocker of your own is a requirement due to the fact that Forretress usually cannot redo all of its hard work at setting up entry hazards. Giratina is the defensive choice and its Origin forme the offensive choice, though the latter does not quite fit that moniker with its still quite high 150 / 100 / 100 defenses. A bulky Fire resist, such as Tyranitar or Kyogre, is recommended due to Forretress's 4x weakness to Fire. Kyogre also brings with it rain, which halves the damage Forretress takes from Fire-type attacks, and as a bonus, Forretress spins away the entry hazards that weaken the power of Water Spout. Carry the necessary support for Forretress should you choose to run it; regardless of how you feel, it really needs it, and there aren't really any other Rapid Spinners out there should you not be satisfied with Forretress.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Forretress has a few other moves it could use for its attack. Explosion could be useful as a last-ditch attempt to KO a troublesome Pokemon, such as a setup sweeper or Dragon-type locked into Outrage, swinging the battle in your favor. However, Forretress needs to stay alive for as long as it can, so it must be used only after Forretress's use has fully expired. Earthquake can be used to wear down Dialga, but that is its only use. Lastly, a physically defensive EV spread could be helpful to take Outrages even better; however, Forretress will lose its ability to take Draco Meteors in exchange, which invokes a number of undesirable situations, while Forretress's high base Defense can do the job regardless of whether or not it is invested into.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Forretress's main purpose is to spin away entry hazards, a spinblocker goes a long way toward shutting it down. Giratina is extremely bulky, taking pitiful damage from Payback and blocking Rapid Spin. Its Origin forme is decent as well, though it can be worn down by Payback far more easily than the aforementioned Giratina, so it must carry Hidden Power Fire to come out on top. For that matter, any Fire-type attack, (remove comma) from Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Heatran, Arceus-Fire, Dialga, Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, and Salamence, (remove comma) will take out Forretress due to its 4x weakness. However, it should be noted that the latter two must be wary of Gyro Ball and try and prevent avoid locking themselves into Outrage. Forretress's low Special Defense can be exploited through the use of any strong neutral STAB special attack. This includes Water Spout from Kyogre, Surfs from Manaphy and Palkia, Air Slash from Shaymin-S, and Judgement from many variants of Arceus. Deoxys-S, and for that matter, any fast user of Taunt, can shut Forretress down and use it as setup fodder. Generally speaking, its Forretress's attacks are very weak, so any setup sweeper can use it as bait to demolish an entire team. Looking at more obscure options, Swords Dance Garchomp can set up on Forretress and 2HKO it after a single boost, with even the rare Hidden Power Ice not KOing and possibly even missing under sandy conditions. The rare Magnezone can trap and KO with Hidden Power Fire. Forretress is not difficult to defeat, but its sheer utility and unique support make it something to account for whenever building a team.</p>


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  11. Jukain

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  12. Oglemi

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