Multi Gen Ubers Teambuilding Competition v2

[Krauersaut]

as disgusting as it is to say, fireburn

 

[Thetwinmasters]

ApplepieFTW

 

[I DON't KNOW]

Gonna have to vote for esteemed tier leader Fireburn.

 

[dice]

apples team lacks a yveltal check and is hella defog prone weak steelphoenix

this poke has no niche lol

hyper offense doesn't need a steel since xern exists

 

[Thugly Duckling]

I vote ApplepieFTW

(Run dtail on donner please, it's way too good on Tspikes builds. Forces you to run either bandsect to pick off xerneas or ekiller [adamant stone edge if so, it's for def yveltal] to do the same thing; but, cool build overall, great job friend)


Great effort to all other builders this round.

 

[Fireburn]

ApplepieFTW

 

[ApplepieFTW]

hmm yes now that I look back at it, ekiller might indeed be the way to go. even if it wouldn't be for xerneas, it'd make the team less yveltal weak as you guys said. even though I don't really worry about yveltal on teams like these (the mon is getting pretty uncommon as of late too) I guess minimising matchup is nice! I still think sd ghosteus slays dem hoez tho

Oh and dtail pdon doesn't seem like a bad idea but stone edge is also a decent option

 

[Aberforth]

ApplePieFTW

 

[Safes]

ApplepieFTW

 

[haxiom]

The winner of this round is: ApplepieFTW ! Congratulations, and thanks to all participants. I'll update the Hall of Fame shortly.

This round, we're going to do ORAS again, working with non-Primals Groudon or Kyogre. Obviously, one of these is much easier to build with but I'm leaving the option for the other one on the table. So, to clarify, we are building with regular Groudon or Kyogre in ORAS Ubers.

OR

Good luck and get building!

 

[Thugly Duckling]

Importable

Groudon @ Earth Plate
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 28 Def / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Tail

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Defog

Wobbuffet @ Custap Berry
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 80 HP / 176 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Destiny Bond
- Encore

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Diamond Storm
- Calm Mind

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Atk / 52 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Tailwind
- Roost

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Teambuilding Process

I started this team with the intent of testing out an underrated Diancie set: Calm Mind+3 attacks, on, the only playstyle Diancie is viable on, Sun. In hindsight, I believed that Diancie was not going to be able to set up on anything except a forced out Yveltal or Ho-Oh -- its subpar bulk means that it will take severe damage from even neutral attacks, such as, an Arceus's Judgement, so, its set up opportunities are extremely limited; convincing enough to simply run Protect for the overall consistency, should the issues of running Calm Mind go unaddressed by teammates.

Nothing other than Wobbuffet provides the support that Calm Mind Diancie needs -- Encore traps provide free set ups to Diancie on status moves, something the Custap Berry set is prone to due to forgoing Safeguard for Destiny Bond. If you were wondering, yes, that is Dice's Wobbuffet set from his RMT, The Sinkhole Spreads; it is just such a damn good set that roll compresses as an emergency GeoXern check AND offers the unparalleled support it is notorious for, with, the added boon of a priority Destiny Bond when it is below or at a quarter of health.

A Diancie build is incomplete without Ho-Oh -- even more so here, because, Calm Mind Diancie absolutely requires a Fire type attacker to check bulky Steel types, such as, Ferrothorn and Aegislash. You may notice that Ho-Oh has Tailwind; it is a surprisingly great move on Ho-Oh that allows it to clean weakened teams, and, eases prediction against possible Primal Kyogre switch ins. It too allows Ho-Oh to take advantage of Wobbuffet's support; and, can aid Diancie in checking Salamence after Ho-Oh has been foddered, in the advent that Salamence has set up on Ho-Oh after an Intimidate. Needless to say, Diancie bounces back Stealth Rock for Ho-Oh and has decent offensive synergy with it; they both pressure bulky waters and wear down each others checks.

At this point, a water resistance became mandatory. Latias was so obvious -- it Defogs; checks the Primals; hits really hard; and, has access to the most broken move ever, Healing Wish. I originally wanted to use Grass Knot over Psyshock to make the team less weak to SD Groundceus; but, Kyogre and Ho-Oh were far more relevant threats, and are two mons that sun teams simply cannot allow to set up, switch in, or fire off attacks.

Stealth Rock had to be added. I came to the realization that running Primal Groudon would only weaken my team to Extreme Killer, Arceus Ground, and opposing Primal Groudon; so, non-Primal Groudon just seemed right. What's unique about this Groudon is that it is an offensive Earth Plate set, something quite overlooked thus far in ORAS. It has a niche over the standard physically defensive Groudon that most sun teams use because it is not a free switch in for Primal Kyogre; defensive sets are 2HKOed by Precipice Blades on the switch, and more offensive sets that lack HP investment face a hefty chance of being OHKOed after Stealth Rock damage. It is also not a free switch in for Mega Sableye expecting to bounce back hazards -- max defense variants take upwards of 55% from Precipice Blades, effectively crippling it for the rest of the match and limiting its switch in opportunities. Despite lacking an Impish Nature and heavy Defense investment, Groudon's natural physical bulk and HP EVs still allow it to check Swords Dance Arceus forms. Furthermore, Latias's Healing Wish allows Groudon to be heavily abused early game to do what it needs to: set rocks, and phaze out early set ups.

An available Arceus form on an offensive team begs for Extreme Killer. It's a self explanatory mon, and it loves the set up opportunities provided by Wobbuffet. It gives this team a great tool versus offensive teams, and a means of priority to pick off weakened fast mons and boosted sweepers often found on balanced teams. I opted for Stone Edge to bop Salamence, as any other coverage move would allow Salamence to countersweep after revenge kills. It overall has great offensive synergy with Ho-Oh and Diancie -- the former is a superb check to Support and Calm Mind Arceus Ghost and roasts steels; and, the latter sets up on Lugia and Skarmory, two premier checks to Extreme Killer.


Threats

- Primal Kyogre: This team must beware of Primal Kyogre; it has a sole check to it. Latias should lead out if one is encountered. Pursuit+Ogre cores are highly problematic and must be played against with caution; but, Earth Plate Groudon has a good matchup versus these cores.
- Mega Salamence: Substitute is the worst; a true nightmare, really. The team has no troubles with other variants, however.
- Swords Dance Arceus Ghost: Can 6-0 if it gets an Swords Dance off and Groudon is not at 100%. Groudon is EVed to have a near impossible chance to be OHKOed by +2 Shadow Force after rocks, but the teams this Ghostceus variant is found on tend to run Spikes. The only thing it can set up on is Latias after it has fired off a DM, so, that is fortunate. This is a mon that even most SPL players and teams struggle checking, so I've come to accept the weakness to it.
- Swords Dance Arceus Ground: Groudon can check it once, and Wobbuffet can be used as an emergency check to it by using Destiny Bond, if it's healthy enough to take a boosted Earthquake.
- Will-O-Wisp Arceus Rock: This is a nuissance to face against because it can burn Wobbuffet and Groudon; and, ones that carry Stealth Rock are even more annoying. If Diancie has Mega Evolved, it can easily bounce back a status move Encored by Wobbuffet, cripple it, and possibly set up some Calm Minds.
- Mega Kangashan: God, I hate this Pokemon. Groudon doesn't like taking the Returns; Latias will fall to Sucker Punch; Wobbuffet can only Counter damage from the second attack, which is balls weak. I've seen a pattern in Wobbuffet teams that they get 6-0ed by Power-Up-Punch; so, I've accepted this as an inherent weakness of the team. Leading with Ho-Oh is a good idea if one is encountered, its bulk allows it to tank the Fake Out+Return to fish for a burn.

__________


Question, comment, suggest; I'll listen. Thanks for reading! :]​

(Edit: Forgot to say I lied about some EV spreads xP)​

 

[haxiom]

PSA: Just to clarify, you have to use either non-Primal Groudon or non-Primal Kyogre in your build- you don't have to use both and using non-Primal Groudon allows you to use Primal Kyogre and using non-Primal Kyogre allows you to use Primal Groudon. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

 

[Fireburn]

Importable

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume
- Dragon Tail

Aegislash @ Choice Band
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 104 HP / 248 Atk / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Head Smash
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Refresh
- Roost

Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 248 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Origin Pulse

I've seen several good builds with regular Groudon, but none with regular Kyogre. I don't know if a good build with regular Kyogre is possible that doesn't 1) put it in a role where it is outclassed by its Primal counterpart or 2) give too much freedom to Primal Groudon. This team attempts to circumvent both issues using Scarf Kyogre (a role Primal Kyogre obviously cannot do) as well as using the rest of the team to apply a lot of pressure on Primal Groudon to both wear it down and limit its turns. This team does have one rather gimmicky set: Choice Band Aegislash. With the given Speed EVs, it can outrun -Speed Primal Groudon and 2HKO it with Head Smash, which also has utility in chunking Ho-Oh up for CM Arceus-Fairy. It also pursuits Lati@s to make PDon/Ogre's lives easier and can still check Xerneas. With Latios and Mega Salamence in the back to put even more pressure on Primal Groudon, it'll be hard pressed to do but so much, and once it's down Scarf Kyogre can actually be a very threatening late-game presence + its a solid check to a lot of threatening offensive mons such as Mewtwo, Darkrai, and SD non-Ekiller Arceus formes. The rest of the team aside from sword and fish is fairly standard. Primal Groudon sets up Stealth Rock and checks Xerneas/other Kyogre/Steels. Latios Defogs, checks Ogre/Don, and lures + kills Ferrothorn with HP Fire, which is great for both Kyogre and Arceus-Fairy. Mega Salamence is mostly just there to pressure PDon/Ho-Oh and help against Extremekiller, but it can sweep if given the chance. CM Arceus-Fairy is the Dragon and Dark mon check, with Wisp + a lot of defense investment to help handle Mence and EKiller, and acts as a second win condition as it shares a few checks with Kyogre.

Watch out for Darkrai, this team relies solely on Kyogre to beat it. Lugia and CM Arceus-Ghost can be semi-annoying as well.

 

[haxiom]

We're not voting yet. I'd like a few more entries.

 

[MMII]

Anyways, offensive pressure and scarf kyogre is a really shitty way to handle ghost arc for a few reasons. The offensive pressure bit is because you are talking about a 120 base speed mon with 120/120/120 bulk and instant recovery on top of a means to bump up its spdef. The scarf kyogre bit doesn't work cause that's just specifying what offensive pressure and it loses to CM boosts, stalling out Rain's 5 turns, and hazards weakening his Spout. That's also completely ignoring that early game pdon is going to hard punish any attempts to RK ghost arc sticking you in a verrrrrrry unfavorable risk reward, ultra prediction reliant play pattern.

 

[Fireburn]

I could prob use pdef yveltal over mence or darkceus over fairyceus, not sure what would be better yet

 

[ApplepieFTW]

Melee Mewtwo, that team isn't bad it's just weak to arceus ghost... If you would've cared and maybe didn't focus on trying to be edgy you could have seen that arceus dark over arceus fairy would solve the ghosteus weak and it would also work well with hp fire latios... Though tbh a roost/defog one seems nicer on this team but idk. Not sure if arc dark really really helps the team that much (I'm a big fan of cm arc fairy myself) but it's an option for sure. The fact that regular kyogre is fucking atrocious doesn't help either, and overall I think fireburn did a pretty good job as far as a team with kyogre goes and I quite like the team.

Oh and fireburn, have you thought about shadow sneak on aegislash? This way you can revenge kill bothersome mons like gengar, ghosteus and mewteo if they're at low hp. It helps your matchup vs hyper offense a bit as well. I also think you should run twave on your groudon because it helps a lot vs mence and you can pursuit latis anyway. It forces a bit more aggressive switching, as lack thereof means you can't stay in at all but otherwise mence just kinda destroys so this would help q.q I like this team though, kyogre is terrible but this team is pretty unique =] You should get dq'd for being corrupt and not allowing critique btw


I might post something tomorrow but I despise both of these pokemon so idk!

 

[Half of Two]

Importable

Deoxys-Speed @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 248 Def / 20 Spe
Timid Nature
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Reflect

Shaymin-Sky @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 30 Def / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Healing Wish

Groudon @ Lum Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 168 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 64 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Geomancy
- Aromatherapy

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: NaN Atk
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Substitute
- Destiny Bond

I feel like wall breaking is one of the few areas where regular Groundon can do a job almost as good or even a little bit better then Pdon. Lacking a weakness to ground gives it a small niche in not being weak to eq on stuff on like Ekiller, Megamence and most importantly Pdon. With a lum berry together with screens you can setup on a lot of stuff like a suicide keys toxic,pdon plume burn or arc rock wisp, still being immune to burns is much better on pdon. 88 speed beats bulky yvetal and most opposing ho-oh and pdon which killing before they hit you or phaze you out is kinda important, i decided to put the rest of evs in hp to help against priority as i feel like investing isn't spd isn't worth it because Xerneas is going to do tons of damage if your not under light screen.

The team itself is fairly basic, screens deo s is there too provide setup for don and xern. Shaymin does a decent job at stopping defog with hax and healing wish is great for a clutch xern or ekiller sweep. Mega Gar was added to provide as an emergency threat for stuff single threats that this team doesn't like (opposing ekiller, pogre), i used a ptrap set to improve the match up vs stall but i'm sure a protect dbond + 2 attacks set could work as well.

Overall this is a fairly basic hyper offense team with the addition of normal don exploiting it's small niche in typing to gain setup. Any suggestions would be welcome but i feel like this team is fairly stale and has a couple flaws i'm not aware of currently.

 

[Fireburn]

Oh and fireburn, have you thought about shadow sneak on aegislash? This way you can revenge kill bothersome mons like gengar, ghosteus and mewteo if they're at low hp. It helps your matchup vs hyper offense a bit as well. I also think you should run twave on your groudon because it helps a lot vs mence and you can pursuit latis anyway. It forces a bit more aggressive switching, as lack thereof means you can't stay in at all but otherwise mence just kinda destroys so this would help q.q I like this team though, kyogre is terrible but this team is pretty unique =] You should get dq'd for being corrupt and not allowing critique btw


I might post something tomorrow but I despise both of these pokemon so idk!

I had Claw for reliable damage against Lugia, but I think Sneak is better in testing since it can pull off some impressive feats (it OHKOes Mewtwo after SR and does ~50 on avg to Ghostceus) so I made the switch.

I'll consider TWave Groudon and Darkceus > Fairyceus

 

[Lord Outrage]

Hide

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Tail
- Thunder Wave

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 80 SAtk / 180 Spd
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Recover
- Defog

Yveltal @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Foul Play
- Sucker Punch
- Roost
- Toxic

Diancie @ Diancite
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 56 SAtk / 204 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Toxic
- Heal Bell

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder/Substitute

(Used Standard EVs)
About Classic Don It really gives a plus vs offense by checking pretty much all physical attackers in a metagame that has physically offensive juggernauts.
Well about the team It's pretty much simple:
Mega Diancie+all the walls are decent vs Classic HO
CM Kyogre Kills Ferrothorn/Blissey(specially with sub) against Classic stall and allows toxic Mega Diancie to murder What remains(Sableye/Waterceus(No Judg)/Lugia/ttar/clefable etc).
This team checks pretty much everything and has a cleric so yeah has a pretty much decent machup vs everything.

 

[dice]

Fireburn

specs aegi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[haxiom]

Leaving submissions open for one more day. Last entries please submit.

 

[MMII]

Dark arc isn't a true solution. You just trade a ghost arc weak for an yveltal/opposing dark arc weak (cause cm wars isn't a real answer)

There's a lot more problems with the team than those things, anyways. The root of the problem comes in trying to use Scarf Kyogre that essentially reduces your team to a team of 5. Scarf Kyogre has 0 purpose and don't give me any bullshit about sweeping teams when pdon is gone, Latios is too, mons are weakened, and hazards have stayed off your field long enough to still have a decent Spout.

 

[Nayrz]

Well since UPL is over (for me at least) i figure i might as well post this team that uses regular Groudon. I planned to use it during one of the weeks of UPL after talking with Fireburn about Blaze, but a team like this is a risky thing to bring to a tour match...it was a very fun team to play with in practice runs though.

team

Blaziken-Mega @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Low Kick
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Groudon @ Lum Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Roar

Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Calm Mind

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Recover

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 228 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Play Rough
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Roost
- Substitute

I believe the only thing that normal Groudon can effectively do is be a physical wall vs Ekiller, Mence, and Pdon while giving sun to Blaze, so i emulated the old xy sun build and with some tweaks it works pre good. I believe Blaze is unexplored and somewhat underrated in this meta, as ORAS didn't give it /that/ much trouble. It's main problem is how hard it can be to make a team that takes advantage of it and "why use it over mence" syndrome, which i guess does count as "a lot of trouble". I think traditional sun is the best way to go about it. Mence dies to sr+hp ice or if it switches into blitz then hp ice. The coverage can change (Stone Edge/Knock Off) but i find that hitting Salamence is the most relevant target. Groudon is there for sun + physical check, something Primal Groudon can have trouble doing. Latios breaks shit and gives an offensive Kyogre check, although it can be troubling regardless. Ghostceus is there cause its a better answer to Latis than Ekiller is. Keys is obvious. Ho-Oh is the teams best way to handle the special hits that the rest of the team cant sponge up, while also benefiting from sun boosted Sacred Fires. You could argue to use the 52 SpD spread but honestly that calc never comes into practice, especially with Life Orb Ho-Oh. Yes, the team is more than likely weak to a bunch of shit but i mean...its a team that i feel best takes advantage of regular Groudon's abilities and definitely has ways around the majority of its issues i feel, it works for the competition criteria at least hehe

Threats:
Heat Wave Yveltal will likely dumpster this team. Going keys > Ho-Oh vs can bring things back to your side...or have you in the situation of Ho-Oh vs PDon (risky) while also scouting for heat wave. Doesn't make it any less threatening cause if SR is up and it got in for free, something is probably dying.
Primal Kyogre - i feel this is a weakness you are hard pressed to keep off when using regular Groudon, cause if you stock up on decent Kyogre checks, you are probably not taking full advantage of Groudon's abilities (aka use Primal and switch to the traditional PGroudon/Latias/etc build) Latios is an ok switch-in tho. Phys Def Primal Kyogre will likely own the entire team, but now that i switched to CM Latios, this is much less of an issue.
I'm sure you guys can point out the rest, i'm open to change suggestions. Overall i'm fairly happy with the team.

edit: fireburn gave me a good suggestion of running defog ghostceus and cm latios over defog latios/cm ghostceus, which does help a bunch - i'll switch to that.
edit 2: added sprites!

 

[haxiom]

Alright. Here are the entries for this round:

Thugly Duckling:
Fireburn:
Half of Two:
Lord Outrage:
Nayrz:

Users with x2 Vote Weight

orch
Thugly Duckling
steelphoenix
ZoroarkForever
ApplepieFTW

Good luck!