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Discussion in 'Ubers' started by DittoCrow, Aug 29, 2012.
It isn't Modest, it's Timid. Timid never 2HKOes.
Er,why is Blaziken listed in the bulky attacker/tank section and why is there 2 wallbreaker sections?
Yeah, I was wondering that myself. Very helpful thread though.
All updated and fixed. Thanks, White symphoni, TooWycked, and everyone who posted sets!
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP, 216 Def, 44 SDef, Calm Nature
- Heat wave
- Roost/ Wish
- Toxic/ Thunder Wave
What it does: One of the most underrated pokemon in the ubers tier, xatu’s niche as a supporter is to utterly troll all hazard users bar mold breaker excadrill and offensive dialga with its incredibly ability, magic bounce. Reflecting all support moves allows xatu to make the job of handling a stall team much easier because it renders passive damage ineffective and heal off direct damage with roost or even wish. It puts a full stop to ferrothorn, Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D, support dialga, jirachi, forretress provided you avoid volt switch on the switch, and more. The EVs allow it to always survive a draco meteor from support dialga so it can outspeed it the next turn and roost. Note that using wish means that dialga can safely achieve a 2HKO. Xatu also has a nice base 95 speed that allows it to outspeed common defensive pokemon.
What Counters it: Xatu’s purpose in life is to block entry hazards, so hazard users that can break xatu will prevent it from doing its duty and most likely limit it to serving as death fodder. Examples of these are mold breaker excadrill, offensive dialga, support arceus-ghost, tyranitar, and the occasional deoxys-a are good examples of these. A pursuit user like scizor or, again, tyranitar can trap and kill xatu as well, though scizor fears heat wave if rain is not up.
Good Teammates: Pokemon that can take advantage of xatu’s uncanny hazard-preventing abilities, like ho-oh, lugia, and reshiram, are mandatory because they justify xatu’s use. Ho-oh can also take on SRers like deoxys-A, offensive groudon, and life orb dialga that xatu has trouble with. Kyogre appreciates its water spout staying at full power. Groudon and the aforementioned lugia are both good teammates as they can fend off sweepers like lum berry DD rayquaza that may try to set up on xatu. Note that neither one has particularly good type synergy with xatu except for groudon’s rock resist. Typewise, jirachi is a good partner because it has good type synergy, can set up stealth rock, and also has u-turn to continue a chain of momentum that xatu can start with its u-turn. The giratinas are also helpful because they’re spinblocking capabilities can help keep hazards xatu may have reflected on the other side of the field.
Additional Comments: Toxic is usually more useful than thunder wave since support pokemon, which xatu usually switches into, but thunder wave works too. Likewise, roost is generally superior to wish as the instant recovery is useful an Xatu’s HP stat isn’t the greatest. Heat wave nails ferrothorn, forretress, and skarmory outside of rain, while also making it significantly harder for scizor to use xatu as setup bait. U-Turn maintains momentum agaist the defensive pokemon that will often switch out from xatu(though forretress can still screw xatu with its slower volt switch). 124 speed EVs allows xatu to outspeed standard lugia, but that does sacrifice a lot of bulk.
I will be posting sets for zekrom and wobbuffet soon as well.
EDIT: Mixed zekrom--
Zekrom@ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Att, 92 SpA, 164 Spd, Naughty or Lonely Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast/ Volt Switch
- Dragon Claw/ Outrage
What it Does: Zekrom is a devastating mixed attacker, as it can tear apart common walls like lugia, giratina, groudon and kyogre as well as less common threats like skarmory. This EV spread lets it outspeed standard lugia, which is the fastest common wall except arceus forms (which usually run too much speed for zekrom to outpace them anyways) while hitting as hard as possible. Bolt strike mauls the vast majority of pokemon that don’t resist it while draco meteor takes out unsuspecting physical walls like groudon and giratina. Focus blast is mainly for ferrothorn and excadrill, but keep in mind that speedy variants of excadrill can outspeed zekrom, so focus blast should be used mainly to hit excadrill on the switch. Dragon claw and outrage are additional STAB moves that see little use but are helpful once in a while.
What Counters it: Zekrom’s raw power and STAB coverage makes it very difficult to counter. However, various arceus forms, most notably grass and ground, fare well against it. Another approach is to use a wall such as groudon to force zekrom to use draco meteor, switch to a steel type or pink blob to sponge it, then use the original wall to take on zekrom, which is much easier after a special attack drop. However, keep in mind that a good player may predict a switch and turn blissey/ chansey/ jirachi into a smoldering crater with bolt strike. More often than not, though, the best approach is to simply prey on zekrom’s low speed, average defenses, and common weaknesses to revenge kill it. Pokemon like rayquaza, palkia, and lati@s are ideal for this.
Good Teammates: Teammates should be able to take advantage of zekrom’s ability to shatter walls. Swords dance scizor is therefore a good teammate because not only does it have good type synergy with zekrom, but it can take advantage of a ruined giratina/ lugia/ groudon to sweep as well as fending off the revenge killers zekrom attracts with bullet punch. Another option is to use volt switch on zekrom in conjunction with banded scizor or scarf genesect to form a voltturn chain. Swords dance arceus forms are also good teammates because their excellent speed compliments zekroms destructive power nicely and they can sweep late game with ease.
Additional Comments: Volt switch should mainly be used to A) Form a voltturn chain or B) Break Shaymin-S’s subseed cycle. In any other case focus blast is superior.
I love that mon Brave Bird spam! An alternative spread that has functioned very nicely was 252 hp, 136 def, 120 special def, careful natured with Focus Sash. Allows Xatu always do its job at least once no matter what happens. Thank you Anikrahman1995 for this spread! It allows feats such as surviving a hit from LO SR Dialga, night shading or heat waving for some damage (+2 LO recoils) which gets it in range for Ho-oh. Btw, mention Ho-oh as a teammate. It's really the best team-mate to any magic bouncer.
The reason is this list: Groudon, Dialga, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Jirachi, Deoxys-A, Arceus-formes.
These are all common stealth rock setters. They all fear Ho-oh who in the sun can deal massive amounts of damage to all of them, 2HKOing everyone with an invested, life orbed, sun boosted sacred fire. The synergy with Xatu doesn't matter. Rock weakness is just what Xatu is going to help out with by bouncing rocks. And you will run Groudon alongside the two.
Reserved for Espeon.
Why are using Xatu as a suicid lead when you can do the same job, if not better, with Espeon ? The latter is used when you dont really need bulkyness, playing Xatu like this is kind of a waste.
Me too =D
If you used focus sash on xatu though, would it be better to invest more in speed over bulk or as go10 said even use espeon...? Also I will edit my earlier post mention that ho-oh takes on the SRer xatu can't. Thanks for pointing it out!
Ok, So I haven't finalized EVs or anything yet but I have this idea I would like to share, this subsplit giratina-o. It works well with sub/d-tail/HP fire/pain split at protecting hazards, with lots of speed and some attack, a little SpA just to get through ferro/genesect/skarmory/forretress. I have been using it in standardish sun with groudon/ho oh/latias/forretress/terrakion, can somebody else test this out to see what they think? I guess in rain it could run will o wisp or earthquake or thunder.
Go10, it's not a suicide lead, it is just able to switch in on any SR users, whatsoever, and bounce at least once. I agree that Espeon outclasses it in the role of a focus sashed magic bouncer, but Xatu is still bulky enough to stall support Groudon and other defensive stealth rockers with this spread.
Reshiram @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Blue Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
What it Does: Choice Specs Reshiram is a dangerous Wallbreaker, pushing through common walls like Lugia, Arceus, and even Kyogre with ease. Heck, under sun Blue Flare can OHKO Manaphy! Unfortunately, Reshiram faces some competition from Kyurem-W, who boasts similar coverage but greater speed and overall power. In order to have Reshiram warrant a teamslot, one needs to capitalize on its incredible ability to shred through common walls with its overwhelming power.
What Counters it: Nothing counters Choice Specs Reshiram, in the strictest sense of the word. Its ability to 2HKO everything under the sun (no pun intended) after Stealth Rock means that more indirect measures have to be taken to head it off. Changing the weather is the most reliable approach, considering that Reshiram's ace in the hole is its sun-boosted Blue Flare. SDef Kyogre can do this fairly well, although it has the potential to be 2HKO'd by Draco Meteor, regardless of hazards. Bulky Tyranitar also suffices, as the SDef boost that sand grants Tar allows it to weather anything but Focus Blast with ease. Once the weather is changed, Reshiram becomes significantly easier to deal with. Walls like Chansey, Blissey, and Lugia can all come in and stall Reshiram out, although Lugia requires rain. If one really needs a pinch check but Stealth Rock isn't up, Chansey or any Fire-resisting Arceus (sans Dragon, obviously) will do the trick, as they can usually avoid the 2HKO under sun.
Good Teammates: Weather is unarguably the most important factor in determining Reshiram's success. As such, Groudon is a mandatory partner. Without control over weather, Reshiram will be rendered ineffective against a large portion of teams due to the ubiquity of rain. Groudon's access to Stealth Rock compounds its usefulness; Choice Specs Reshiram greatly appreciates the presence of entry hazards on the opponent's field because they aid it in breaking through common switch-ins such as Ho-Oh (which can no longer switch into Reshiram at 50%) Kyogre, and Rock Arceus. A spinner or Magic Bounce user is also important to this set, due to its reliance on Reshiram's ability to switch in, hit hard, and switch out. Finally, Choice Specs Reshiram's wall-shattering power makes cleaners, such as Darkrai, Mewtwo, and Choice Scarf Palkia, great partners due to their ability to easily sweep through a weakened team. (This last part was copypasted from my Reshiram analysis)
Shaymin-Sky @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
- Leaf Storm / Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Role: Support, Wallbreaker, and Lead
What it does: This Shaymin-Sky serves as a wallbreaker and good support option for a sun team. It poses a threat to all four weather starters used in Ubers. With it's astounding base 127 speed stat and max speed EVs; it can outrun any unboosted pokemon in the metagame even without a plus speed nature. It can also be a lead, flinching threats such as Darkrai to death. If you don't know what I mean about the flinching, Air Slash has a a 30& chance to make the opponent flinch. That is doubled by Serene Grace, Shaymin's ability.
I perfer Leaf Storm for pure power, but it also halves your special attack. Seed Flare can deal more consistant damage, but I like to switch Shaymin a lot so Leaf Storm works well for me. Air Slash complimens Leaf Storm and Seed Flare well. It gets STAB and can KO opponents through flinching. Earth Power covers mainly Steel-types that shake off the former moves. HP-Ice is good for revenge-killing opposing Shaymin, Garchomp, and Rayquaza.
EVs are fairly simple. Max special attack and speed to be sure it hits hard and outruns the whole unboosted tier. Minimal investment in special defense gives a little bulk.
Good Teammates: Well this obviosly is mostly for a Sun team. It takes out certain whales and behemoths with ease and can kill the most nutorious wallbreaker out there, Rayquaza. This also could find a unique niche on a stall team. You could use it to destroy wallbreakers, like the aformentioned, Rayquaza.
What counters it: There is much that can kill Shaymin-S, so proper support should be there. Common fire-types, such as Blaziken and Ho-Oh eliminate Shaymin-S with ease. Other than that Shaymin-S can flinch and revenge-kill most of the tier.
Additional Info: Well, I'm afraid I said everything there is to say above. I will, however, leave you with this warning: Do NOT use this set to sweep. While it seems tempting with all that speed and power, you will get into a spot where your locked into Leaf Storm against a Blaziken. Other than that, thanks for reading my post and have a nice day, night, or whatever time of day you are reading this at.
Just nitpicking, but Hippowdon is quite viable in Ubers as well as Tyranitar; therefore, it should be "It poses a threat to all four weather starters in Ubers".
True, Hippodown is viable in Ubers. I think that was a typo, anyway. Thanks for pointing it out and I fixed it.
Okay then. Steel, is the best defensive type, no arguments. Therefore, using logic, Steel-arceus should be a great defensive Pokemon correct?
Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
- Judgment/thunder/fire blast
- Thunder Wave/Stealth rock/will-o-wisp
Role: Mixed wall, statuser, Phazer, special wall.
What it does: This is a great mon for stall teams. Having the all important dragon-resist, and the best special defense of an uber steel- type, it can sponge the dangerous attacks of mixquaza, zekrom and reshiram(in rain). It also functions as a status phazer, use status, recover, phaze. It can set up stealth rock for you. Unlike devoted special walls such as chansey and blisssey, it actually has speed, and attacking stats. If you need it, magic coat can be used for a lead, destroying deoxys-s and darkrai, as well as forretress.
The choice of attack is up to your team, rain=thunder, sun=fire blast, neutral=judgement.
The evs let it take special attaks from dragons fairly well, and special attack lets it not be set up fodder. An alternate EV spread of 252def/252hp/4spd can be used to take on physical dragons, but ferrothorn outclasses it.
Good Teammates: Well, a physical wall comes in handy. Kyogre/groudon are helpful,but not required. Spikes lets it phazing be a lot more deadly. If your team benefits from t-wave support, you could use something like that. Rapid-spin support could come in handy.
What counters it: Physical attackers can switch in, but must be wary of will-o-wisp. The sun groudon bring is helpful, and ho-oh grinds it to dust. As well as specs/band mons.
Additional info: Works best on stall/balanced teams.
Calm Mind Arceus-Electric @ Zap Plate
252 SpA/252 Spd/4 HP.
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
What it does: This thing can shred almost anything to pieces with its BoltBeam coverage and can easily set up with Calm Mind.
Good Teammates: Kyogre is a great teammate to this set, as it provides the rain that you need to give Thunder the accuracy that allows this threat to be so difficult to face. A Scarfer is greatly appreciated, as Scarfed pokes might have a chance to retaliate against you.
What counters it: Dialga is a poke that serves well to check Electric-Arceus, as it survives your attacks at +2 and can phaze you out or cause some damage with its powerful attacks. Scarfers can be a thorn to your goat's side, as they can outspeed you and hit you hard. Arceus-Ground, while somewhat rare, can take a boosted Ice Beam and retaliate. The blobs will also make you summon a great thunderbolt in rage and use it to strike down your computer while you drown in your own tears. Groudon takes away the rain you require so dearly, and can take Thunder, but it won't appreciate an Ice Beam. Reshiram is also a threat because it takes your hits nicely and strikes you with a strong Draco Meteor if the rain is up, and a nuclear Blue Flare if it is up. Lastly, Toxic or Paralysis pretty much negates you as a threat altogether.
I find it surprising that CM Ghostceus isnt here, so i'm uploading the set i use in here.
Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Calm Mind
- Focus Blast
Role: Special Sweeper
What it does: This baby is the perfect addition to any offensive team, because of Arceus god-like stats and versatility, It can pretty much take on any Pokemon in the game that doesnt SE him, due to Judment being a special move, a full investiment on SAtk will make it an almost unstoppable beast, by using Calm Mind on the first chance you have, Judment's power will become astronomical, Focus Blast make Arceus capable of covering Steel, Ice and Normal attacks - because any Dark type will crush him - allowing him to 2HKO Chansey, but Blissey walls him easily, taking 30% damage, Dialga shall fear this god-like creature too, but not too much, Recover allows him to heal during the match, so he can proceed with his sweep.He's also really good into blocking EKiller, and killing it with Focus Blast, since most EKillers have Shadow Claw, a Calm Minded focus blast will destroy any EKiller that appears in his front.
Good Teammates: Anything that can take Blissey and Dark types can help him, Jolly Blaziken can get rid of both with Hi Jump Kick, Darkrai can easily put Blissey to sleep, and proceed to Focus Blast him, Mewtwo can take on Dark types with Aura Sphere, and hit Blissey really hard with Psytrike or Ice Beam, Anything that can outspeed the Dark type and hit him with a strong fighting move is nice, and anything that counters Blissey is good too. Tr ick Jirachi can help him clean that annoying wall, locking a blissey in Protect can be usefull when he's poisoned.
If you're one of those people who use OU teams on Ubers, you can also use Shell Smash + Baton Pass to him too, it will help alot and make him pratically impossible to beat.
What counters it: Any Dark types/moves can easily take him down, Blissey can also be a pain, since he sponges every single attack from Ghostceus. (Unless you did the baton pass thing)Other ghost types arent really that much of a pain, since he's probably faster.
Additional Info: NEVER play him when Darkrai is in the enemy team, otherwise he'll get killed istantly, or kill Darkrai before sending him.
some sort of team cookie cutter build should be put in the OP as well
sweeper+ breaker 1 + breaker 2 + support + utility + scarfer
Credit goes to my friend Kebabe for coming up with this set:
Palkia @ Haban Berry / Lustrous Orb
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Spacial Rend
- Surf/Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
Role: Lategame Cleaner, Wallbreaker
What it does: Palkia is already a fantastic Pokemon for breaking common cores, checking Kyogre, and stallbreaking. This set somewhat sacrifices the ability to check Kyogre for the ability to clean lategame and break Hyper Offense, too. A Pokemon like Palkia becomes so much scarier when you can't revenge kill it or set up on it, and this set is quite capable of wreaking havoc on unprepared teams. With no speed investment, Palkia finds itself able to run more bulk and a +Special Attack nature, making this set arguably more capable of cleaning lategame than a set like Lustrous Orb. Trick Room takes the place of a more traditional move like Thunder, instantly making Palkia "outspeed" all viable scarfers, Arceus forms, what have you, upon its use. Spacial Rend is strong, obligatory STAB with an infuriatingly increased Critical Hit ratio. Surf is backup STAB that finds use on Rain, or if you simply hate Hydro Pump's accuracy. Hydro Pump is more desirable under other weathers (or even weatherless teams) as you ideally want to hit as hard as possible. Note that Hydro Pump can be used under Rain if you really feel the extra power is necessary. Fire Blast roasts steels and sees more use on Sun teams than anywhere else, and is key for picking off weakened Grass Arceus. The item choice for this set comes down to personal preference: Haban Berry allows you to set up on Dragons and even switch into slow ones and scare them out, but Lustrous Orb is quite cool for the additional damage output.
Good Teammates: This Palkia is surprisingly viable on a wide range of teams with different teammates, but a few things in particular stand out. Substitute+Calm Mind Giratina-Origin is one of the best teammates for it, coming in and setting up on plenty of things that actually do well versus this Palkia (in particular, Chansey, Blissey, Rain Ferrothorn, and Tentacruel) while also splitting apart cores so TRalkia has an easier time at cleaning later. It can also alternatively come in after Palkia has fallen and net a "quick" substitute or surprise attack on something, courtesy of Trick Room. Toxic Spikes/Spikes and general reliable hazard support is greatly appreciated to push Pokemon into the KO range of some of your coverage moves, while also stalling out defensively based threats such as Arceus-Grass and Arceus-Fighting that could come in and try to ruin your sweep. So, things such as Ferrothorn, Forretress (especially the custap variant), and Tentacruel are also desirable teammates. Extremekiller Arceus works alongside this, as it too can benefit from Trick Room to outspeed potential revenge killers such as Terrakion and cleans nicely before/after Palkia comes in. Finally, an additional Kyogre check, or just any teammates that handle Kyogre well are appreciated. This is a really bad Kyogre check on its own, as it can't even switch into Specs Thunder and come out okay due to it underspeeding Kyogre under normal conditions.
What Counters it: There are very few counters to this Palkia under the right conditions. It can, however, be outplayed, and there are some things that take its attacks better than others. Tentacruel, though it doesn't want to come in versus a normal Palkia, takes this variant's attacks quite well. It can even set up Toxic Spikes under Rain. Support Arceus-Grass in Rain works, but it falls to Fire Blast under Sun. Support Arceus-Fighting in Sun works, but it falls to Hydro Pump or Surf under Rain. Like many special attackers, Blissey and Chansey handle this set, even taking Rain, Modest, Lustrous Orb Hydro Pump to an extent (252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in rain: 252-297 (38.65 - 45.55%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, 252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in rain: 202-238 (31.46 - 37.07%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock). Lugia is kind of meh versus this variant due to the fact that Palkia outspeeds under Trick Room and the fact that it can't do much in return, but it can stall assuming Multiscale is intact. Finally, Extremekiller Arceus can come in after something else has fallen, set up (assuming it lacks Rain Hydro Pump), and countersweep it. If you lack any of these Pokemon, it can be outplayed in a worst-case scenario: if this set can be offensively pressured to the point where it can't set up, it becomes astronomically easier to deal with. Do note that preventing setup is quite difficult, especially versus Haban Variants, so it's best just to pack something that can deal with it ^-^.
Additional Info: As mentioned previously, this set is viable under a wide range of team archetypes: standard Sun, Rain, (and Weatherless, if you're into that sort of thing) Hyper Offense, Stall, and Bulky Offense, to name a few. It doesn't require a team specifically dedicated to Trick Room to perform its job. Also, it's nice to pack it with another Lategame Cleaner and/or some amount of team support, just in case it should happen to fall prematurely.