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Ubers Trick Room (Peaked 14# in Shoddy leaderboard)

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Pirika, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Pirika

    Pirika O boxeador revolucionário
    is an Artist Alumnus

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    UBER TRICK ROOM TEAM

    Introduction:


    Recently I started to play in the uber ladder, I decided to try something different and them I tried to create a Trick Room team in Ubers. I love using field effects and this Trick Room team worked quite well for me allowing me to reach the 14th position in the uber leaderboard.


    Obs.: All speed IVs are 0. (except for Palkia)

    Changes in Bold

    The line-up


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]






    The defensive core:


    [​IMG]



    Beerzong @ Occa Berry Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/152 Atk/104 Sdef
    Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Trick Room
    - Gyro Ball
    - Explosion


    Bronzong is my first Trick Room user. It is a nice lead for this team, being able to set-up Stealth Rocks and Trick Room in the beginning of the game and unlike most Uber leads, Bronzong can make use of Trick Room. I usually avoid to explode it in the beginning of the match . With rain support from Kyogre, Bronzong has no weakness and 7 resistances, allowing it to switch into many ubers and set-up Trick Room a lot of times before exploding. Occa Berry is here to prevent leads like Groudon OKHOing Bronzong with Overheat or Deoxis-A 2HKOing with Fire Punch. Also, if I keep Occa Berry, Bronzong can make a nice check against Rayquaza, surviving an Overheat and hitting back with Gyro Ball or just exploding on it depending of how much HP Bronzong has left.


    [​IMG]



    Dialga @ Shuca Berry
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SAtk/4 SDef
    Quiet nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - Thunder
    - Draco Meteor
    - Flamethrower


    The second Pokemon of my defensive core, Dialga packs a lot of resistances making a reliable Trick Room user. It makes a defensive pair with Cresselia, resisting to all Cresselia's weakness while Cresselia resists to Dialga's two only weakness. Unlike the rest of my defensive core Dialga has a lot of power and can even work as a late game sweeper under Trick Room. Shuca Berry allows Dialga to survive Earthquakes from Rayquaza and Groudon, set-up Trick Room and KO them with Draco Meteor.


    [​IMG]

    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SAtk
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Trick Room
    - Ice Beam
    - Moonlight
    - Lunar Dance


    Cressilia fills a lot of defensive holes in my team, she is an excellent Groudon, Garchomp and Rayquaza counter and resists to Dialga's two weakness, making a good defensive pair with it. Ice Beam is only for Rayquaza, Groudon, Shaymin-s and Garchomp as Cresselia lacks of offensive power to hurt everything else. Lunar Dance can bring some weakned sweeper back too the game, mainly Kyogre who usually will be at low health after using substitute few times. Moonlight isn't the most reliable healing move but it can be useful if my opponent has Groudon on his team.


    The Offensive Core:


    [​IMG]

    Kyogre @ Life Orb
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SAtk
    Quiet nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Waterfall

    With Palkia using Choice Scarf I took Choice Specs from Kyogre. Also, using the Calm Mind set consumes me precious turns of Trick Room, Life Orb Kyogre provides me a powerful sweeper when Trick Room is active. Surf 2HKO everything that doesn't resist to it or Blissey. Thunder provides me a powerful attack against my opponent's Kyogre and is the best way to hurt Palkia. Ice Beam hits a lot of things for super-effective damage like Rayquaza, Lati@s ( doing aroung 50% on Latias), Giratina and Shaymin. Waterfall is for Blissey 2HKOing her. Most of time Blissey will switch in Kyogre taking surf, Waterfall can OHKO after Stealth Rocks damage and some damage from Surf.

    [​IMG]

    Heracross (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SDef
    Brave nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest


    Heracross is my status absorber. It's an excellent Darkrai counter, absorbing sleep and resisting to Dark Pulse and Focus Blast. He is a nice switch-in for Blissey. Close Combat and Megahorn are a nice attack combination in ubers. Sleep Talk is for Darkrai and Rest provides a healing move at the same time I activate Guts. Heracross is quite bulky and can take some hits from ubers like Mewtwo and Latias without Psychic and hitting back with Megahorn. Also, Heracross does an excellent job when facing Lugia. If Lugia tries to Roost, Megahorn will deal super-effective damage (about 90%), it it use Toxic Heracross gains Guts boost, so usually I can wear down Lugia unless it Whirlwind Heracross always. Also, due his bulkiness, Heracross can take some hits from Lugia even after some Calm Minds.
    What a like about Heracross as a Darkrai counter is that, unlike Primape, Heracross is not a dead weight when Darkrai is gone. With Trick Room and Guts activated Heracross can be a powerful sweeper, reaching 574 Atk. With two 120 BP STAB attacks, few things can take hits from Heracross in the uber metagame. The only things that can take Heracross attacks with Guts boost are Giratina, Giratina-o, Ho-oh and Rayquaza. In some games where I lost all my ubers, I could won with a Heracross sweep.

    [​IMG]

    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spd
    Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Outrage

    Scarf Palkia is for situations when Trick Room wore off and I need a revenge killer. It can revenge kill or force switches allowing me to switch back to a Trick Room user. Palika is quite useful agaisnt SD Rayquaza locked on Outrage revenge killing it with Spacial Rend. Surf gains a lot of power under the rain, KOing a lot of things. Thunder is for Kyogre. With Outrage I can 2HKO Blissey and have a reliable way to revenge kill Lati@s.


    That's it, please rate it. =)
  2. Pirika

    Pirika O boxeador revolucionário
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    Threat List

    Mewtwo
    Heracross can take some hit from Mewtwo without Psychic and hit back with Megahorn or Pursuit.

    Mew
    Difficult to counter because it's too unpredictable. Kyogre and Heracross are usually the best choices if Trick Room is play OHKOing Mew with Megahorn or a full-health Water Spout before it can do anything.

    Lugia
    Cresselia can Toxic the Calm Minder and Bronzong can stall it taking boosted Ice Beams. Without Calm Mind, Kyogre, Dialga and Palkia can kill Lugia with Thunder.

    Ho-oh
    Palkia and Kyogre.

    Latios and Latias
    Heracross switch in both if Trick Room is activated and kills with Megahorn. Bronzong can set-up Trick Room on them and Explode.

    Kyogre

    Palkia is the best switch for Kyogre but the Calm Mind/Sleep Talk set causes me trouble.

    Groudon
    Cresselia can take any set of Groudon and kill it with Ice Beam. Bronzong can wall sets without fire attacks.

    Rayquaza
    Cresselia can survive a +2 Outrage from Rayquaza, set Trick Room and hit with Ice Beam. If Bronzong keeps the Occa Berry it can take any boosted hit and explode or hit with Gyro Ball.

    Deoxys-A
    With Trick Room activated it can't do much, my entire team can take Extremespeed and kill it.

    Deoxys-D
    Heracross loves to be poisoned and can OHKO it with Megahorn.

    Deoxys-S
    Almost always a suicide lead. Bronzong 2HKO it with Gyro Ball.

    Palkia

    Hard to counter. Dialga can switch into water attacks and kill with Draco Meteor. Bronzong can take Dragon attacks and Explode. If I don't have Trick Room activated I usually lost 1 poke to Palkia.

    Dialga

    Bronzong is the best check, taking Draco Meteor dropping Dialga's attack for another poke take. Heracross is the only poke that can do any super-effective damage on Dialga but it cannot switch in safely.

    Giratina
    Dialga takes any Giratina hit and kills with Draco Meteor

    Darkrai
    Heracross takes the sleep and can kill with CloseCombat or Megahorn.

    Manaphy
    Palkia take boosted surfs and kills with Thunder.

    Garchomp

    Cresselia can take any hit from Garchomp and kill with Ice Beam. Bronzong can switch into Choice Banded/Scarfed Earthquakes.

    Giratina-O
    Dialga can take hits from Giratina and kill with Draco Meteor, Palkia can revenge kill Calm Mind versions with Trick Room.

    Shaymin-S
    Bronzong walls it completely and 2HKO with Gyro Ball.
  3. Atticus

    Atticus Atticus
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    well I have to say I've played this team a fair amount (5-10 times lol) to know its strengths and weaknesses so I figure I might as well post some form of a small rate, what I first noticed is the teams weakness to simply all out uber offense which is unfortunately very common, stuff like max speed specsdialga can utterly rampage through your team if played correctly and to a different degree scarf palkia/dialga, what I would suggest is simply using scarf on palkia, I mean you're not going to have trick room active the entire time and a solid revenge killer with some good speed could help your team from getting swept by fast hard hitters (mixquaza/dialga[must weakened first of course]). anyways with that said I find your team to be very original and fun to play against, it was really interesting to face a team on the uber ladder that didn't follow the template of deo-e lead+rp don+ray+3 sweepers. :)
  4. Aprovleptos

    Aprovleptos

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    Hello.Your team is very good and very successful (14th posision on the ladder is a very good achievement in my opinion).
    I have 2 suggestions though

    1)I dont see any big weaknesses but I dont think it is a good idea to have Choice Specs Kyogre.Although its power and speed under trick room are incredible,choice specs will force you to switch a lot of times,.I suggest changing the set to:

    Kyogre@Life orb
    Nature:quiet
    EVs:252 HP / 252 SpA 0Spe IVs
    Surf/thunder/icebeam/sleeptalk

    With this set you have a nice sleep absorber and a great sweeper under trick room.The type coverage that the moves give is the same as the choice specs set (except water spout).With sleep talk you have another check to darkrai.


    2)Have you ever considered Scizor over Heracross.Scizor has a lower speed stat and a higher attack stat.Scizor is a beast under trick room.I suggest this moveset:

    Scizor@Life orb
    Nature:Brave
    EVs:248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
    Iron Head/X-Scizzors/Superpower/pursuit

    Scizor with this set is almost unstopable under trick room.Max attack and minimum speed to maximise it's attacking capabilities.Scizor doesnt need BP because under trick room he outspeeds anythong.Iron Head gets STAB and has 30% iirc chance to flinch.X-Scizzors gets STAB and it is capable of OHKOing Mewtwo Lati@s and Darkrai.Superpower for blissey and Pursuit for a fleeing foe.

    Hope I helped. good luck.
  5. Pirika

    Pirika O boxeador revolucionário
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    Yeah, I was destroyed by spec Dialga several times. I'll give a try in scarf Palkia. Using that should I take Choice Spec from Kyogre? I don't like the idea of having two choice items on my team, specially in ubers, where spikes are very common.

    I tested Scizor in this team before but I found Heracross better, Iron Head doesn't have much coverage in ubers and Heracross' Megahorn and Close Combat have more power tham X-Scizzor and Superpower (as Heracross has STAB for both moves). About the Kyogre the problem is the residual damage of Life Orb. I'll try a set without spec, but maybe a Calm Minder could be a better idea.


    Thanks for the rates. =)
  6. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
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    Got your PM, so I'll try my best!

    Firstly, I'm going to second the change to Scarf Palkia. I know the team is built around trick room, but as Atticus pointed out it's not always going to be up, and if it's not you could have some problems.

    Your defensive core looks pretty solid, the only thing I could suggest there is maybe Lunar Dance on Cressalia for late in the game. I personally have never tried that, so I'm not sure how well it would work, but you could always test it out.

    Your offensive core looks pretty solid too. Kyogre does have the problem with not being able to switch attacks though, and when you only have like three turns to take advantage of Trick Room, you need to be sure you're not going to get forced out. Since you're already running a lot of bulk, I'd suggest trying a Calm Mind set, with CM over Waterspout. Your initial attacks will be weaker, but now you have the ability to sweep even without Trick Room in play.

    Lastly, and this one is by far the smallest, I'd suggest Stone Edge over Pursuit on Heracross. I don't really see you having a need to trap anything, and Dark/Bug don't really hit anything different. Stone Edge will let you hit Rayquazza and the rare Ho-oh, as well as hitting Lugia for more damage (120 x 1.5 << 100 x 2).

    Good Luck, hope I helped.
  7. Pirika

    Pirika O boxeador revolucionário
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    I really like the Lunar Dance idea, I'm going to replace Moonligth for it. About the Scarfed Palkia, should I focus on SpAtk or Atk? I don't like much the idea of being walled by Blissey, but physical Atk Palkia doesn't pack much power. I also considered running Timid max speed Palkia with Choice Spec as Palkia already outspeed Spec Dialga and Bronzong can easily take Draco Meteor from Scarfed Dialga. Also Timid Palkia outspeed a lot of things in the uber metagame.

    The problem with Wobbofet is finding a spot on my team for it. If I remove one Pokemon from my defensive core I will have only two Trick Room users, if I remove from my offensive core I will lose attacking power or my Darkrai counter.

    I'll test the changes tonigth and post the results here later.

    Thanks for the comments. =)
  8. twash

    twash
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    I'm really glad you posted this team because it's nice to see a different style of Uber team get some success, well done.

    The problem to me is that if you don't keep Trick Room is play you're going to be hit like a ton of bricks by faster offensive teams, especially as Cresselia seems to switch in on a lot of Pokemon and is trying to set up Trick Room too.

    I can't help but feel you put Leftovers on Dialga just because you feel as though there are limited options, but I would definitely consider Shuca Berry on Dialga. Aside from the fact that I love putting type-resist Berries on certain Pokemon, it would help Dialga against opposing Groudon / Rayquaza, which slightly takes the load off of Cresselia. Just by running Shuca Berry, Dialga is now able to survive a +2 Life Orb Earthquake from Rayquaza, which is pretty great as you aren't forced to rely on Cresselia to bring the game back, moreso useful due to Cresselia's great utility as a go-to guy. Interestingly, +2 Life Orb Adamant Rayquaza actually OHKOes Cresselia with Outrage 100% of the time after Stealth Rock damage, which is just horrid when you consider it's huge utility on the team. Bronzong takes a ton even with high defenses, and let's face it - Bronzong is quite likely to be damage early game against fast paced teams, and security is always nice. The Leftovers loss is kind of annoying against Pokemon like Kyogre, but now Dialga can take a Life Orb Groudon's Earthquake while it uses Trick Room, and then finish off Groudon with Draco Meteor (4 HP / 0 SDef Groudon)! :D

    Heracross seems like a bit of a weak link but definitely ties the team together...I would consider using Rest over Pursuit (and making chucking a few EVs into SDef) which allows you to control your own sleep, gives you a Guts boost when you feel like it, and means it doesn't fear switching into Darkrai consistently if Stealth Rock damage etc is down.

    Overall I really, really like this team. It really interested me and makes me want to build a Trick Room Uber team...good job.
  9. reyscarface

    reyscarface
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    Hi Pirika. First of all nice team, and excellent concept buddy.

    Now, first thing I dislike is the weakness you have to SD Rayquaza. A smart opponent will wait until your Trick Room wores off, and then bring Rayquaza to sweep. +2 LO Outrage completely decimates your team, and you will have to keep Bronzong alive because of that. That being said, your team is very slow (lol duh its a TR team) but TR isnt on the field all the time, which can mean you will be destroyed by faster things. Scarving Palkia is a great idea, it wont fix your SD Quaza weakness completely, but I guess you can lure an Outrage with Cresselia to make Palkia able to revenge.

    You have to be very cautious with Giratina-O, specially if it comes after Cresselia manages to kill something. It can sub up, take the ice beam thanks to the gargantuanic HP it has, and start Calm Minding. After that, your only bet to stop it is Kyogre, who will take insane amounts of damage from Shadow Ball / Dragon Pulse, and cant recover damage later. For this reason I would make Kyogre, like others have said, a CM variant, with Leftovers and a bigger investment in Sp Def, just to take on Giratina-O better.

    This team looks solid, and theres really nothing else I can say without completely copying the above posters, so good luck with your team and amazing job Pirika.
  10. Private Piplup

    Private Piplup

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    Before I say anything else, I just want to say that the last avatar I would expect from a guy called ReyScarface is the one he has.

    Down to business. I think that you should leave Palkia Mixed, and perhaps try Scarf-ing Heracross. Scarf-Heracross can still counter Darkrai, but it is a little weak to stall (Giratina completely walls it, and even with a Guts boost from Will-o-Wisp, Heracross can't do much to it). I don't think you should keep pursuit, as Heracross has "only" 125 base Attack (well, 125 is low by Uber Standards at least), and no boost from either Technician (Scizor) or STAB (Tyranitar). Even with 125 base Attack, a Blissey is not 2HKO'd by Pursuit, and your team does not really have to worry about Blissey much anyways.

    Next, I really don't think Cresselia is a good choice, as it is probably only second to Blissey as biggest set-up fodder in Ubers. I understand that you need a physical wall that can Trick Room, so I guess it can't be helped.

    Finally, the Kyogre. I don't like the fact that it's Choiced and you have a TR team. However, putting Calm Mind on it costs one precious turn of Trick Room, which only lasts 5 turns anyways. (Is it 4, since the turn you use it counts as one? I'm not sure) However, it is a good team player, as Palkia really needs the rain for Thunder and Surf. Perhaps Wise Glasses, if Life Orb recoil turns you off, and swap Waterfall for Water Spout? Or, even better, (I just thought of this) make it a Calm Minder with 3 attacks and play it early game, then switch it out before it dies and Lunar Dance it with Cresselia after Palkia sweeps, to clean up.

    One final Team Suggestion, I think Rayquaza would be an excellent addition with TR Mew (Trick Room, U-turn, Explosion, Filler or Stealth Rock) as its gargantuan 150 offenses are only outclassed by Deoxys.

    Hope I helped.
  11. Pirika

    Pirika O boxeador revolucionário
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    Ok, here some changes on my team:

    1. Scarfed Palkia, I'm testing it with great sucess, thank you guys =)
    2. Calm Mind Kyogre. As Palkia is already using a choice item I took Specs from Kyogre.
    3. Rest on Heracross. Giving him more durability.
    4. Lunar Dance on Cresselia.

    I'll try Shuce Berry on Dialga too as Twash suggested.

    Thanks everyone for the rates and comments. =)
  12. Pirika

    Pirika O boxeador revolucionário
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    Again some changes:

    -Shuca Berry on Dialga. (Thanks for the idea twash!)
    -Stone Edge on Heracross.

    Thanks for the ideas guys!
  13. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
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    Won't Kyogre's rain mess up your Cresselia's Moonlight? I realize that Cresselia will be switching into Groudon meaning that sunlight is active, however it seems as though it will limit the amount of time Cresselia can stall for.

    I think MixQuaza could be really cool on this team. You could just max both attacking stats allowing you to deal insane amounts of damage to everything. I think replacing Kyogre with him can work. I'm only suggesting this because on a trick room team why would you want to have a set-up sweeper? By setting up with kygore you will be wasting turns of trick room. Also if you don't want to replace kyogre at least consider a life orb kyogre. I think it can work great for this team and you could even try out waterfall for catching blissey.

    Just a thought.
  14. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    First off, haven't read anything anyone else has posted. But for Blissey killing with Scarf Palkia I'd go with Outrage. It's only generally a 2hko on Blissey, but also gives you the ohko on Lati@s that Spacial Rend doesn't pull, and getting locked into Focus Punch with Palkia is never a good situation to get stuck in. (Plus the prediction element is simply no fun at all when you have a much more consistent option in Outrage)
  15. Pirika

    Pirika O boxeador revolucionário
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    Cresselia purpose is just counter some offensive threats when Trick Room isn't active, so Moonligth is just for recovering health when Groudon comes. About Kyogre, before using Scarf Palkia, Kyogre had Choice Spec. But I don't like much the idea of having two Choice items user on my team so I decided to use the Calm Mind version. But what you say is true, usually I don't have time to attack with Kyogre before Trick Room wears off. I'll test some different versions until I found a better set for it.

    I decided not going with Outrage because, in teams with Blissey, Palkia becomes set-up fodder for Forrestres lay spikes and Toxic Spikes on the field. When locked Palkia is locked in Outrage, my opponent has the chance to lay two or even three layers os spikes before I can switch. But Lati@s are really a problem after one CM, the only things that can OHKO them are Heracross with Megahorn or Bronzong with Explosion, and Trick Room must be activated for Heracross because it can't survive a +1 Dragon Pulse from Lati@s.

    I'm considering giving Palkia Choice Specs, because with Timid nature Palkia still outspeeds most of things that threaten my team.
  16. JabbaTheGriffin

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    Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum and Palkia locked into Focus Punch isn't setup fodder for Forretress? Just saying Outrage is going to be more useful against a lot of things. The OHKO against Lati@s, the 2hko on blissey, making sure giratina can't do whatever it wants. Focus Punch has a lot less utility and lets a lot more pokemon set up on you than Outrage does.
  17. Pirika

    Pirika O boxeador revolucionário
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    Yes, what I wanted to say is that locked into Outrage, I cannot switch Palkia, allowing Forestress to lay more spikes layers. Anyway, you are rigth about Lati@s, without Outrage is a lot more difficult to KO them, I will replace Focus Punch for Outrage. BTW, I was just explaining the reason why I decided to use Focus Punch instead Outrage.

    With Wob I lose some of my attaking power, so I decided not going with it.


    Well, thanks for the comments. =)
  18. Pirika

    Pirika O boxeador revolucionário
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    Few changes:

    -Put a life orb set on Kyogre to make a better use of the turns Trick Room is activated.
    -Put Rest again on Heracross. SD Rayquaza can be stopped by Cresselia or revenge killed by Palkia (When locked in Outrage)

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